Texas Church shooting

[Dani]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=5q8IMuEXSoA

This is an interview from Dave Ivey the uncle. I feel so bad for what the shooters family is having to deal with right along with the victims.

 

[user 6493]

I just read a piece on the man who stopped him,,,,,he was hit 3 times twice in the leg and once in the torso,,,,,the turd took his own life to avoid being caught,one round to the head..........................

 

[user 7704]

My step-son finally got non violent when OFF all the meds others had him on when younger. (he wasn't in our care then, I got him as an adult, later on).

But, he has gone off a couple of times with his temper. I made it very clear that cuckoo or not, he better not pose a threat to anyone in the house again, or he can get the hell out...and hasn't happened since.

Of course, I also keep my guns under lock and key, two levels worth actually. My room door is locked (and not some cheap interior door one), and my closet is locked. Then, some even have trigger locks, or are in the safe. (so really three different levels). Granted, I keep one near me while sleeping, but bedroom door is still locked then, and trigger is locked (key isn't in an obvious spot, but I can do it in the dark, and in seconds).

I'm sorry that you have to have that much security. I have a gun on the China cabinet all day when I am up. My son is here (special needs) but he would never touch. He was diagnosed ADHD along with his medical diagnosis of Fragile X (think autism with an actual medical diagnosis) his X chromosome is warped. It's hereditary, but no one else ever show signs. Back to the point........Ritalin was prescribed for him, but I hated what it did to him. He was like a zombie with these strange mannerisms. I said hell no to drugs. He has short attention span but basically can sit in same spot for hours watch his Westerns. I think the drugs are mostly for the parents and teachers so they don't have to cope with the child. Hate me if you like

 

[Gazrok]

I'm sorry that you have to have that much security. I have a gun on the China cabinet all day when I am up. My son is here (special needs) but he would never touch. He was diagnosed ADHD along with his medical diagnosis of Fragile X (think autism with an actual medical diagnosis) his X chromosome is warped. It's hereditary, but no one else ever show signs. Back to the point........Ritalin was prescribed for him, but I hated what it did to him. He was like a zombie with these strange mannerisms. I said hell no to drugs. He has short attention span but basically can sit in same spot for hours watch his Westerns. I think the drugs are mostly for the parents and teachers so they don't have to cope with the child. Hate me if you like

My stepson was likewise a zombie when on them, or a zombie with occasional outbursts. Much better now sans shrinks and meds. Now he has a routine, and is working on bettering his life.

 

[Brent S]

There are people that need to be on meds and can’t function without them. I truly believe that the majority though don’t. I feel Robin is correct that a lot of caregivers just don’t want to deal with the extra effort some kids/people require. I am sure the drug companies are behind the overuse of all the crap that’s out there.

 

[drt4lfe]

I always seem to see the same pattern on these types of shootings, After it happens all kinds of people come out of the woodwork making statements on how messed up the shooter was and all the issues, BUT it seems no one took enough interest to make it loudly know to LE or others that this person is a serious risk to others....Did NO family member see his FB page with the gun ? surely at least one person knew about it and could have made a phone call ? If you have anyone in your family, any friend, neighbor, co-worker that scares you or makes you feel uncomfortable, get involved and call......don't turn a blind eye....

 

[Gazrok]

Shooting guns on your property is hardly uncommon in rural areas. Hell, just the other week, I shot a couple rounds into the ground to get some raccoons away from my neighbor's chickens. (the noise is enough to scare them away, no need to recklessly shoot at anything else).

The real red flags here, were likely not exactly spoken much aloud (like the animal and spousal abuse, etc.), or common knowledge.

It really seems to me that the background check system failed miserably here, likely because it doesn't include military court records, and/or due to not treating his offenses there as disqualifying him from legally getting a gun. It really should have, based on the comparable civilian legal system offenses.

Again though, moot point. By this time next year, the public will be screaming to all but outlaw the sale of firearms. It's an inescapable outcome once more and more of these events occur.

 

[TexasFreedom]

I need some background music, something like Jimmy Fallon's "thank you card" music.

Thank you President Obama, for making the Air Force accept nut-job wackos like Kelley and teaching them how to use weapons.
Thank you President Obama, for making the Air Force only gave this nut-job 12 months prison time for beating his wife and cracking the skull of her child.
Thank you Obama, for making the Air Force do nothing when this nutjob broke out of a mental hospital, get guns, and get caught sneaking on the base wanting to kill fellow soldiers.
Thank you Obama, for making sure the Air Force was so well run that they failed to report the nut-job's dishonorable discharge so that he could buy multiple weapons to kill dozens of people in a church.

And finally, thank you Obama, for explaining to plumber Joe how socialism works great for nut-jobs like Kelley. And for stepping up and taking responsibility for this whole mess.

Does anyone think Obama will get the proper credit for this mass murderer? He should, he really should.

 

[drt4lfe]

obama has created more Terrorists than ISIS......

 

[Kevin L]

One "friend" interviewed said that he was heavily medicated grades 6-9. I also wondered if he still was currently on. . . .
Also read that he had "volitile" relationship with parents but no specifics.
We have so many mass shootings now days and we are the most heavily medicated nation in the world. . I've wondered if there was a connection.

You make an interesting point that I haven't considered.

I've worked in healthcare for almost 30 years, and meds are important for helping crazy people...but they aren't the only tool.

Counseling, follow-up, and regular meeting with shrinks are important...and also expensive. After reading your post, I wonder if meds are used to mask the symptoms instead of hard, dedicated work to fix the mental health issues, leaving the person to go crazy if (s)he somehow goes off the meds or the meds stop working.

The vast majority of mental health patients are harmless...but they are, sadly, among the last people to benefit from the system and healthcare workers often don't have the resources to help them.

Many (even most) can hold down jobs and lead a productive, happy life if they got the help that they needed.

In some ways I may seem like a bleeding heart, but I would rather see people working than warehoused in institutions at state expense.

 

[Kevin L]

I'm sorry that you have to have that much security. I have a gun on the China cabinet all day when I am up. My son is here (special needs) but he would never touch. He was diagnosed ADHD along with his medical diagnosis of Fragile X (think autism with an actual medical diagnosis) his X chromosome is warped. It's hereditary, but no one else ever show signs. Back to the point........Ritalin was prescribed for him, but I hated what it did to him. He was like a zombie with these strange mannerisms. I said hell no to drugs. He has short attention span but basically can sit in same spot for hours watch his Westerns. I think the drugs are mostly for the parents and teachers so they don't have to cope with the child. Hate me if you like

Your point about medications is well-taken, but I disagree with certain things.

Medications are invaluable, but they can be misused just like any other drug. To illustrate my point, consider opiates.

Opiates are invaluable for things like surgery, chronic pain from cancer, bone pain after dental work, and so on. Morphine can even be used in the absence of pain to reverse the consequences of congestive heart failure and help a patient breathe. Much of modern medicine would be impossible without opiates.

Yet, opiates cause addiction, overdoses, and so on. They can be mismanaged, misused, and cause huge harm to society when used outside their proper scope.

I feel the same way when it comes to medicating kids. The meds need to be properly managed, kids with problems need to be helped (and not by beating them--I don't believe that teaching an unstable kid that violence is an answer to a problem is a good thing), and parents have to realize that just because some people are harmed by abuse of meds doesn't mean that all meds should be avoided.

I don't ask you to agree with me, but I at least hope you can see my point.

 

[Gazrok]

Yet, opiates cause addiction, overdoses, and so on. They can be mismanaged, misused, and cause huge harm to society when used outside their proper scope.

I've never understood this with opiates. I've used them off and on for pain through the years, and never felt any kind of addiction. I'm sure I'm just an anomaly though...just hard for me to relate. Pain gone? so is pill. Seems simple enough....but guess not.

then again, I don't even like taking an aspirin if I can help it, LOL.

 

[Kevin L]

It is hard to understand, but there are a lot of misconceptions about opiates.

People of a certian generation (my father, for example) think that it somehow shows character and personal strength to refuse opiates when they are, clearly, indicated.

If a person has surgery and uses opiates properly in the recovery phase...they will heal quicker and be out of the hospital sooner, and have a cheaper bill.

Opiates actually help a patient heal quicker after surgery in some cases.

 

[Brent S]

I've never understood this with opiates. I've used them off and on for pain through the years, and never felt any kind of addiction. I'm sure I'm just an anomaly though...just hard for me to relate. Pain gone? so is pill. Seems simple enough....but guess not.

then again, I don't even like taking an aspirin if I can help it, LOL.

I could easily become addicted to them. When I was a kid qualudes were fifty cents, and everywhere. I loved the things, depressants hell, they made me feel great. Luckily I grew up and realized I was playing with fire before anything bad ever happened. But I did learn that I really liked the effects of them. To this day aspirin is about all I will take now. I don’t think any addict ever started off thinking I really want to screw up my life and be homeless.

 

[Gazrok]

True, I guess I never just got any kind of "high" from meds. They either worked or didn't. I'll take a hydrocodone if I have extreme pain, like a bad toothache, or half of one, if some bad back pain, about like once a month or something....but it just kills the pain. No high or anything. Like I said, I'll chalk it up more to my weirdness then... lol

 

[Dani]

Ritalin, Lithium and whatever kind of drugs started getting popular in what the late 80s or 90s to help kids. Those kids have now grown up and had kids. . . those kids are having kids. . . Just how many people do we have now that need meds to function? Its a cycle that needs to be broken. Instead of learning how to deal with and cope, redirect with something productive, we are pushing "happy" pills down our throats that may or may not work. And why?? To make someone else happy because they tell us this is what we need to do. The real problem is still there and being completely ignored. Long term effects really need to be looked at.

 

[Gazrok]

Weird part is, my wife needs pain pills to function each day...but she does so, so she can go to work for 8 hrs. Without her meds (and because they are hard to get, there are often a couple days each month of this), she's in horrible pain...so while I understand the epidemic, I also cringe at how chronic pain patients are treated like criminals every time they go to get a script filled that they've relied upon for over a damn decade.

 

[Brent S]

Weird part is, my wife needs pain pills to function each day...but she does so, so she can go to work for 8 hrs. Without her meds (and because they are hard to get, there are often a couple days each month of this), she's in horrible pain...so while I understand the epidemic, I also cringe at how chronic pain patients are treated like criminals every time they go to get a script filled that they've relied upon for over a damn decade.

Yeah, my wife is on long term pain meds too. Even with them she still suffers daily. I’m afraid it’s only a matter of time before the pain specialists are over regulated out of business. I’m not sure how long she would be able to take it if she was told no more, it’s been banned now.

 

[user 7704]

We re

Your point about medications is well-taken, but I disagree with certain things.

Medications are invaluable, but they can be misused just like any other drug. To illustrate my point, consider opiates.

Opiates are invaluable for things like surgery, chronic pain from cancer, bone pain after dental work, and so on. Morphine can even be used in the absence of pain to reverse the consequences of congestive heart failure and help a patient breathe. Much of modern medicine would be impossible without opiates.

Yet, opiates cause addiction, overdoses, and so on. They can be mismanaged, misused, and cause huge harm to society when used outside their proper scope.

I feel the same way when it comes to medicating kids. The meds need to be properly managed, kids with problems need to be helped (and not by beating them--I don't believe that teaching an unstable kid that violence is an answer to a problem is a good thing), and parents have to realize that just because some people are harmed by abuse of meds doesn't mean that all meds should be avoided.

I don't ask you to agree with me, but I at least hope you can see my point.

We really didn' disagree on anything. I totally agree on the opiates. The only thing I don' like is people putting kids on drugs when they aren' needed. I'm 58 and no one was drugged in school. I believe the ADHD diagnosis is way over used. Kids today have no free time. Just time to go out and be young. Even their sports activities are strictly ruled. Their lives are on a calendar. How about letting kids be kids and just run and play with out rules.

Much of the ADHD is actually boredom and too many rules. Just let kids go and be kids.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rules, but life before Ritalin seemed much better to me.

 

[user 7704]

Yeah, my wife is on long term pain meds too. Even with them she still suffers daily. I’m afraid it’s only a matter of time before the pain specialists are over regulated out of business. I’m not sure how long she would be able to take it if she was told no more, it’s been banned now.

Totally agree. My brother was telling me that in Massachusetts (?) That the prescription for opiates is 3 days only. Then, you have to go get a refill. He is is terrible shape and drives 100 miles to his doctor. Why are the politicians letting the lawbreakers dictate when it should be the needs of the actual patients.

 

[user 7704]

I could easily become addicted to them. When I was a kid qualudes were fifty cents, and everywhere. I loved the things, depressants hell, they made me feel great. Luckily I grew up and realized I was playing with fire before anything bad ever happened. But I did learn that I really liked the effects of them. To this day aspirin is about all I will take now. I don’t think any addict ever started off thinking I really want to screw up my life and be homeless.

Qualudes Omg. You could go to Mexico and buy generic ones over the counter. (Or so I've been told)

 

[Brent S]

Qualudes Omg. You could go to Mexico and buy generic ones over the counter. (Or so I've been told)

Yeah, I’ve heard that too. The only problem with playing with fire though is you can get burned. Now days I stick to one or two glasses of wine at night.

 

[Brent S]

Qualudes Omg. You could go to Mexico and buy generic ones over the counter. (Or so I've been told)

So, is that why your chicken in your avatar sideways

 

[Psalm7]

Not sure about other States but here thoes og Us that have carry permit and are prescribed anything that has the do not operate equipment or vehicle warning on it . If you are found to be carrying your firearm on your person you could lose your permit .
As far as the shooter He was a liberal atheist and blamed thoes He hated for His pathetic exsistance that He should have blamed Himself for .

 

[user 7704]

So, is that why your chicken in your avatar sideways

I have tried to fix that, but can't. It' unique. Btw that is one of my ladies

 

[user 7704]

Yeah, I’ve heard that too. The only problem with playing with fire though is you can get burned. Now days I stick to one or two glasses of wine at night.

I stopped wine and lost 30 lbs. I didn' drink much. Was already thin. Now I look like Olive Oyl.

 

[user 7704]

Not sure about other States but here thoes og Us that have carry permit and are prescribed anything that has the do not operate equipment or vehicle warning on it . If you are found to be carrying your firearm on your person you could lose your permit .
As far as the shooter He was a liberal atheist and blamed thoes He hated for His pathetic exsistance that He should have blamed Himself for .

I don' understand what you are saying. When I got my CC, they never asked about opiates. Are you saying that people on opiates can't drive or carry a gun?

 

[TexasFreedom]

Wow this thread has gone off topic. Not that drugs (legal) aren't worthy of a healthy discussion, but they've taken over a thread talking about dozens of people murdered in a church.

I started another thread under "First Aid" / Traditional Rx. Let's move this side topic over there and respect the focus of this one.
Thank you

 

[Dani]

There has been many studies done already that SSRI drugs have been linked to violent behavior. The question is, why are doctors still prescribing them like candy to the majority of the population. I know someone who actually trust his doctors and honestly it is killing him. Is it because they have a personal agenda. . . a paycheck that keeps coming in cause they don't want to take the time to find out what the real cause is? If they did that, and the real problem resolved then less money for them. Do the big phama companies give the doc a part of its share for endorcing their product?

This guy was mentally unstable, I have no doubts, but what caused him to be?

 

[Gazrok]

Totally agree. My brother was telling me that in Massachusetts (?) That the prescription for opiates is 3 days only. Then, you have to go get a refill. He is is terrible shape and drives 100 miles to his doctor. Why are the politicians letting the lawbreakers dictate when it should be the needs of the actual patients.

I believe the 3 day bit means it must be filled from the script within 3 days, vs 30.

My wife has to see her doc once a month, and since we work in a different county than we live, and only a doc in our residing county can write the script, we basically end up taking a half day at work, for me to drive her there each month (about a 35 mile trek there, and then same back).

Oops, just saw the note about the topic change. Sorry.