underground bunker

[steveneary]

I think your post is full of loop holes and you wouldn't last more than a couple of days should the worst happen.

Firstly the suits come vacuum packed and brand new they are coated with a substance that aids protection.
secondly the suits once used are thrown away.
thirdly You need inner gloves, outer gloves rubber, overboots
4th You need plenty of fullers earth for decontamination and you have to know the correct procedure hands, decon, hands.
5th the canisters for mask have a shelf life, for instance if submerged = bin job, hard use 24 hours so you need to store hundreds of them.
6th You need personal and monitoring dosimetry to pick up rad levels
7th you need a decontamination procedure cold showers as hot water opens up the pores, body monitor and all waste to be double bagged and discarded safely
8th you need an airlock of some sort with positive ventilation.

Source of information 8 years British army - NBC
8 years Navy submarine service - nuclear contamination and decontamination

Summary: in order to be fully prepped you'd need a warehouse of in date stores and a mountain of cash to pay for things like mass specs etc.

 

[Silent Bob]

I think your post is full of loop holes and you wouldn't last more than a couple of days should the worst happen.

Firstly the suits come vacuum packed and brand new they are coated with a substance that aids protection.
secondly the suits once used are thrown away.
thirdly You need inner gloves, outer gloves rubber, overboots
4th You need plenty of fullers earth for decontamination and you have to know the correct procedure hands, decon, hands.
5th the canisters for mask have a shelf life, for instance if submerged = bin job, hard use 24 hours so you need to store hundreds of them.
6th You need personal and monitoring dosimetry to pick up rad levels
7th you need a decontamination procedure cold showers as hot water opens up the pores, body monitor and all waste to be double bagged and discarded safely
8th you need an airlock of some sort with positive ventilation.

Source of information 8 years British army - NBC
8 years Navy submarine service - nuclear contamination and decontamination

Summary: in order to be fully prepped you'd need a warehouse of in date stores and a mountain of cash to pay for things like mass specs etc.

Steve,

Welcome to the forum. Your are a new member, so I am going to try and help you a bit.

1) When posting a reply, you will find at the bottom of the posted thread, a like button and a reply button. If you want to respond to someone's comment to get that person to look at your comment, hit that "Reply" button, it will automatically take you to a reply window with that members account. When you finish writing your post, you can then hit the post reply, which is what I did to answer your thread. Hope this helps.

2) Not sure which post you were responding too. I assume it had to do with WilliamAshley thread. Not sure if he is an active member anymore. So not sure he will ever see your comment, unless you hit the reply button and send it to him, I am sure he forgot his post based on the date entered. reading Ashley's comments, I think he was trying to offer his thoughts on helping a fellow prepper, no harm, no foul.

3). I am sure with your extensive background in NBC operations in both the Royal Army and Royal Navy, you are quite proficients in all manners of NBC training. You just have to remember, many of the prepper's might not have the experience you have learned while on active service. You are right that with the statements you made, this is for people working in or near a contaminated environment, again where your training comes from. I offer only as a suggestion that your experience may be best suited in writing a thread or two on such things. Certainly their is duality toward NBC operations and Pandemic disease preparation. You might not be medical, but you can certainly explain entry control points, decontamination set-ups..etc. I did smile about the "fullers earth" comment....most would not know that, but they do understand diamataceous earth because most people in the states have a pool and its use as a compound agent. In fact that is how I con my wife to keep some in storage shed.

4). Your comments are sound. Agree with all your statements, except the Summary.... I think you will find our community respects everyone's decision on what they consider a priority in preps. WE are all here to learn from someone. You will find different levels of preppers on this site. Many of us recognize that the largest threat is a global financial collapse or a pandemic outbreak. Most us also belong to other prepper websites. For me, I belong to APN and one other, not that I spend much time on either one. I am there strictly for recruitment purposes. This is the only site, I truly invest time with because of the community of people we have and that Clyde provides a site that allows us to share ideas.

I agree that the items are expensive and most of the stuff you get from Army surplus stores must be considered suspect because they either have been used on ops, training or have exceeded their shelf life. Hence, why I direct most people to true companies that use commercial grade filters. For the most part I use Approvedmask as a source. I've done business with them for years. Certainly many of the items are a placebo, but lets face it, why would you be in preps if your weren't planning. I place information for them to make a sound decision, it is up to them to decide whether it is in their own planning to make that happen. Again its a choice thing.

So welcome aboard, I'd be interested in hearing from you. I did a tour from 98-01 at RAF Mildenhall, trained up at Hereford, I hear from some of my friends things are moving around on the Isles. I also did some training with the RA medical staff at your RA medical training base. Son was born at RAF Lakenheath. So send me a an email by hitting the Conversation button, if not, enjoy the site and good luck.

 

[Wiredog8]

I think your post is full of loop holes and you wouldn't last more than a couple of days should the worst happen.

Firstly the suits come vacuum packed and brand new they are coated with a substance that aids protection.
secondly the suits once used are thrown away.
thirdly You need inner gloves, outer gloves rubber, overboots
4th You need plenty of fullers earth for decontamination and you have to know the correct procedure hands, decon, hands.
5th the canisters for mask have a shelf life, for instance if submerged = bin job, hard use 24 hours so you need to store hundreds of them.
6th You need personal and monitoring dosimetry to pick up rad levels
7th you need a decontamination procedure cold showers as hot water opens up the pores, body monitor and all waste to be double bagged and discarded safely
8th you need an airlock of some sort with positive ventilation.

Source of information 8 years British army - NBC
8 years Navy submarine service - nuclear contamination and decontamination

Summary: in order to be fully prepped you'd need a warehouse of in date stores and a mountain of cash to pay for things like mass specs etc.

Hi, Steveneary, welcome to the group. Man that is some great info.
You should start a thread on NBC stuff. It's nice to have someone here who can answer some of the more in depth questions on that subject.

 

[Gazrok]

Best bet is to simply be in a place that has no nearby targets or nuclear power plants. There are a few sites out there that can help in this regard (though the ones on power stations may include plants that are now inoperative, and so won't have a melt-down, so do your own verification). There are also sites that can show the range of nuclear blasts and primary targets, etc. (though of course, targets are guesses, but based on facts).

Keep in mind, after the Cold War, the world nuclear powers switched to much smaller yield weapons, so instead of a 5mt - 10mt missile being the norm, we're more at 1mt to 3mt being more common. Currently, for example, it would take about 7mt hitting our closest target, to even put us in the edge of the outer ring for radiation (and we're not within 100 miles of any nuclear plant).

Granted, radiation does travel, but it lessens exponentially both with time and distance, so that by the time it reaches us, and for the duration, should be well within acceptable limits. (you'd be surprised how much radiation we can safely take these days).

 

[jontte]

what I heard and read abt those sea-containers is that the 4 corners are strong enough but everything else must be reinforced

 

[Brent S]

Our bunker is a completely water tight 30' boat, we have attached a ventilation system,which also serves
as a escape hatch,in the rear, a main hatch toward the front both with vented filters (both made of steel)
Its completly reinforced inside, with beams,fiberglass & epoxy resin and boat paint. 4 bunks, & master bedroom, alot of storage areas.
With a center lounge area. We buried it 5' underground and the upper part mounded over, we had to do this due to the water
table being so high in Fla. It looks like a above ground drainfeild.
Oh the back vent can be used as a cooking area, and is designed so that
If a intruder decided to pour something into it, which would be very difficult considering the designed of it, but if they succeeded at the bottom of the shaft is a holding area, where it has at neck comming off if it

comeing thru the transom, with a steel door we can shut, for blowback. If they ever get that close.
Both have security locks.
It has 120 volt system, with breaker box, and 6 batterys, with converters, have 120volt lights, and 8, 12 volt.
Microwave, small refrigerator, cook stove.
Working on solar powered battery charger.
We are working on a concrete building that will be accessed underground from the bunker, which will have the kitchen
facilities, and bathroom with water, have everything but the building built.
2 gens, one will be in a Faraday box.
We have a 4000 gal water tank (stainless) mounted on a trailer,400 gal holding
tank attached to the house gutter capture system. & our well.
Presently getting food to store in bunker. And have just started a garden. We are talking about the idea of
Getting a few chicks, & rabbits,
Plus we have multiple security systems in place.
Surprising we did not hit water when we dug the hole

You've been busy!

I just dug the hole into a hillside for a 10x10 storm shelter/root cellar. I have two cubes of block that will get filled with rebar and concrete. I'll have three sides and the roof underground, but the front will just be 8" of reinforced concrete. I'm still not sure about the door. I know that outward opening would be stronger, but am worried about debris trapping me if a storm hits. I'm probably going with a in swing that's got some secure bars or something. I'll set the water tank in front and build some fencing around it for camouflage, but am mostly concerned about storms more than hiding in it. I go the dirt loosened up with a backhoe, but it still needs to be spread around the low spots in the yard before I can start pouring footers.

 

[Brent S]

Update- ceiling caved in,completly filled in with dirt and water were done, cant afford to do it again.
.

I'm truly sorry for all that hard work and expense lost. The best I can offer is that we learn from mistakes in life, and keep moving forwards. People don't realize how much force is put on a structure even when only buried a foot under ground. Believe me you are not the first. Most people think you can bury steel cargo containers, but not even close to being strong enough without a lot of reinforcement.

 

[Brent S]

what I heard and read abt those sea-containers is that the 4 corners are strong enough but everything else must be reinforced

The best structure is a round tube like a courrugated steel drainpipe. The problem is that a 6' tall section is pretty costly. Any design needs to be really strong, like reinforced concrete, and work with arches and circles to distribute the weight of the dirt. Moisture is a huge concern also, who wants a damp, moldy hole in the ground.

 

[Brent S]

Best bet is to simply be in a place that has no nearby targets or nuclear power plants. There are a few sites out there that can help in this regard (though the ones on power stations may include plants that are now inoperative, and so won't have a melt-down, so do your own verification). There are also sites that can show the range of nuclear blasts and primary targets, etc. (though of course, targets are guesses, but based on facts).

Keep in mind, after the Cold War, the world nuclear powers switched to much smaller yield weapons, so instead of a 5mt - 10mt missile being the norm, we're more at 1mt to 3mt being more common. Currently, for example, it would take about 7mt hitting our closest target, to even put us in the edge of the outer ring for radiation (and we're not within 100 miles of any nuclear plant).

Granted, radiation does travel, but it lessens exponentially both with time and distance, so that by the time it reaches us, and for the duration, should be well within acceptable limits. (you'd be surprised how much radiation we can safely take these days).

I'm about a hundred miles from atlanta, and since it's a major shipping hub for the south east, it's a target I'd rather be further away from. I'm more concerned about the nuke plant that's only about 60 miles away. My best advice about a blast or meltdown, get out of dodge. That's why we have bug out bags. I'd rather start over with nothing in a safer area than try to stay in a place I can't eat anything grown in the soil for a couple hundred years or more. I read about bikini island where we did a lot of nuke testing. You can safely live there now, but you can't eat anything grown there, not now or for a very very long time.

 

[Gazrok]

You can safely live there now, but you can't eat anything grown there, not now or for a very very long time.

Not using the native soil, but you can of course greenhouse it.....but even occasional fruit from there isn't an issue, just that if it was constant, you'd gradually increase your intake of radiation:

Eating coconuts or breadfruit from Bikini Island occasionally would be no cause for concern. But eating many over a long period of time without having taken remedial measures might result in radiation doses higher than internationally agreed safety levels.

 

[Brent S]

i still prefer my suntan from the outside.

 

[QuietH3art]

I have to say, of all the SHTF possibilities, Nuclear war is the one I most wouldn't want to survive. I really would not want to have to figure out how to live in what remained of the world afterwards. So an underground bunker just isn't in my future. Although a house built into a hillside would be awesome for very different reasons.

 

[Silent Bob]

I have to say, of all the SHTF possibilities, Nuclear war is the one I most wouldn't want to survive. I really would not want to have to figure out how to live in what remained of the world afterwards. So an underground bunker just isn't in my future. Although a house built into a hillside would be awesome for very different reasons.

LW having lived in Minot, North Dakota after recuperating from my injuries, I look upon Minot with fond memories because I met my wife there. She was born and raised there. Back during the early 80's, we use to count our time on how many hotdogs we could grill and how many beer cans we could lay at our feet if the real bomb dropped. My wife will tell you, that they really didn't give much thought and lived their lives each day fully, knowing that the base and the city would go up within minutes of a nuclear war. Yes, and she practiced the old duck and cover...and no they didn't have a shelter, just an old basement.

Granted this was the Cold War Era, where the Russian's had those huge monster in the hole, their capability was built on Russia's failure to have really good targeting systems, so they traded computers technology to the wind and built their response in Megatons. The theory was that the bigger the megaton, the bigger the hole would be on our missile silos. Now a days all the nuclear community have focused more on accuracy rather than megatons. Both Russia and the U.S. still are the two nations that have the a large ICBM program, but the Chinese are catching up, with more modern mobile ICBM's. With what is going on in the Western Pacific and Putin's reactionary invasions in former USSR territories, and downsizing of U.S. standing forces. We may see a new growth in reliance of ICBM/SCBM delivery systems. Granted the current U.S. ICBM program has been underfunded for years, has been caught in cheating scandal of is missile crews, and still uses analog computer systems to authenticate launch codes/message/firing programs. It would make sense to reinvest in a land based nuclear system. We have now only 3 active missile wings in the U.S. military nuclear deterrent, compared to 6 wings back in the 80's. The bomber forces is now down to two active B-52 squadrons that are nuclear capable and if I not wrong one active squadron of B-1's, with the majority of our aerial deterrence based on the B-2 Spirit bomber. Its been a few years since my last briefing, but I think that's about right on the ORDER OF BATTLE for nuclear deterrence.

As for bunkers, well their are two ways to look at it, I have one, built as a tornado shelter, sold it to my wife that way, because after my injuries I suffered, I don't like confined spaces. The first tornado shelter was one of those garage ones, its nice, but way to small for me. So the second one was a kit, 10x20 and it can serve as a temporary bunker when the SHTF. My kids actually practiced heading down there because as my son calls it, the only place where we have wifi and cable underground if a storm comes through the city. We've tested his theory many times because when the house loses cable, the shelter does not. The second reason, is it allows me to store more stuff out of my wife's eyes, but we had this discussion regarding your predicament.

My wife shares your views too regarding not wanting to live after an event like that, and as I said, we all make choices...I guess that one, we will wait and see what happens.

 

[Brent S]

I have to say, of all the SHTF possibilities, Nuclear war is the one I most wouldn't want to survive. I really would not want to have to figure out how to live in what remained of the world afterwards. So an underground bunker just isn't in my future. Although a house built into a hillside would be awesome for very different reasons.

I kind of agree with the nuke situation. If you can't leave the area, why would you want to hide in a hole to come out to devastation and a slow death from radiation. On the other hand, if staying underground for a few days could buy you time to let the radiation levels drop to safe levels, then I'm all for it. I'm really building a shelter for storms and food storage, not as a place to live any amount of time. If I had the extra money to toss around I probably would build something more elaborate, but we do the best that we can with the resources we have.' I only hope the Russians love there children too', and I never have to consider trying to use it for more.

 

[Silent Bob]

I kind of agree with the nuke situation. If you can't leave the area, why would you want to hide in a hole to come out to devastation and a slow death from radiation. On the other hand, if staying underground for a few days could buy you time to let the radiation levels drop to safe levels, then I'm all for it. I'm really building a shelter for storms and food storage, not as a place to live any amount of time. If I had the extra money to toss around I probably would build something more elaborate, but we do the best that we can with the resources we have.' I only hope the Russians love there children too', and I never have to consider trying to use it for more.

Hey Brent,

What I saw of the pictures, your not that bad off, digging into the hill side and then surfacing the rest of the part with blocks, rebar and concrete is not a bad way to go, and way far cheaper than what I did with the kit, but then wife would not approve of anything else.

However, I've got some good blue prints from a guy who built them in California for a living and if I ever get property in Colorado, that's of my big investment projects.

Your right, it would suck to have in a nuc filled environment, the intent of the shelter is really to buy us some time, not live underground for life. Who knows what life brings us, that's why we prep right?

Have a great week, hope your wife is resting comfortably. Enjoyed your threads on the food.

 

[psalm 7]

There is a lot of Japanese that have survived Nuclear war . Most with no injuries of any kind .

 

[QuietH3art]

Given that I live within an hour's drive of Cherry Point MCAS and Seymour Johnson Air Base and within 20 minutes of Camp LeJeune, Camp Johnson and New River Air Station, I'm pretty sure that we wouldn't survive a nuke attack. I am 10 miles from mainside of the largest Marine Corps Base on the east coast. Direct hit.

 

[Silent Bob]

There is a lot of Japanese that have survived Nuclear war . Most with no injuries of any kind .

That is true Psalm, unfortunately, my mother's oldest sibling was less fortunate, she was in the direct path of then the unknown plume (alpha-beta particles that adhere to the fallout), she quickly died of Leukemia, within 3 years after Hiroshima. She attended a girls college not far from Hiroshima. So you could say I have more of an intimate relationship with nuclear fallout.

 

[psalm 7]

We need to think of these things also when election days come around . A strong military was a Reagan strong point . Anti missile defences work in the early parts of Desert Storm the Patriots missile defence system we set up to protect Isreal was encrypted with the wrong Data but once that was fixed it had a near 100% sucess rate .

 

[Gazrok]

You'd be surprised. Go to Nukemap.com and run a few simulations, keeping in mind that most modern warheads aren't more than 3 megatons. More about precision these days. A nuclear war, during the Cold War, probably wasn't going to be very survivable, but in the modern age? Pretty decent shot.

Radiation from a blast (unlike from a leaking reactor) breaks down pretty exponentially also, so as long as you can get over the initial blast radiation, you're not in bad shape. A lot of us won't even be in the outer ring of attack blasts. I get it. Raised during the Cold War, we had to live with the daily fear that a nuclear war was VERY real. Today's kids have NO idea....and we were all convinced we'd be doomed.

 

[QuietH3art]

You'd be surprised. Go to Nukemap.com and run a few simulations, keeping in mind that most modern warheads aren't more than 3 megatons. More about precision these days. A nuclear war, during the Cold War, probably wasn't going to be very survivable, but in the modern age? Pretty decent shot.

Radiation from a blast (unlike from a leaking reactor) breaks down pretty exponentially also, so as long as you can get over the initial blast radiation, you're not in bad shape. A lot of us won't even be in the outer ring of attack blasts. I get it. Raised during the Cold War, we had to live with the daily fear that a nuclear war was VERY real. Today's kids have NO idea....and we were all convinced we'd be doomed.

I tried the nukemap.com and there was nothing there. It's www.nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap

 

[Brent S]

What worries me is the radiation that stays in the ground for long periods. I don't think it's safe to eat anything in grown in or near Hiroshima. I guess lots of people survived, but I'd like to know what the rates of cancers are compared to other areas.

 

[QuietH3art]

Oh, I really wish you hadn't posted that. I did the nukemap based on a China's current 5 Mt hitting mainside Camp LeJeune. I fall within the "blue" area:

Air blast radius (5 psi): 7.83 km (193 km²)
At 5 psi overpressure, most residential buildings collapse, injuries are universal, fatalities are widespread.

Thermal radiation radius (3rd degree burns): 21.3 km (1,430 km²)
Third degree burns extend throughout the layers of skin, and are often painless because they destroy the pain nerves. They can cause severe scarring or disablement, and can require amputation. 100% probability for 3rd degree burns at this yield is 12.4 cal/cm2.

I think even with a 3 Mt, I'd fall within the same zone.

 

[Brent S]

Oh, I really wish you hadn't posted that. I did the nukemap based on a China's current 5 Mt hitting mainside Camp LeJeune. I fall within the "blue" area:

Air blast radius (5 psi): 7.83 km (193 km²)
At 5 psi overpressure, most residential buildings collapse, injuries are universal, fatalities are widespread.

Thermal radiation radius (3rd degree burns): 21.3 km (1,430 km²)
Third degree burns extend throughout the layers of skin, and are often painless because they destroy the pain nerves. They can cause severe scarring or disablement, and can require amputation. 100% probability for 3rd degree burns at this yield is 12.4 cal/cm2.

I think even with a 3 Mt, I'd fall within the same zone.

Sometimes it's better not to think about some of those kinds of things! On the other hand, moving to a rural area is always a nice place to retire.

 

[QuietH3art]

I'd give anything to be able to move to the mountains. Unfortunately, I'm a little bit upside down on my house, even though I own the land free and clear. I wouldn't make enough selling it to buy much more than a cheap old motorhome!

 

[Brent S]

I'd give anything to be able to move to the mountains. Unfortunately, I'm a little bit upside down on my house, even though I own the land free and clear. I wouldn't make enough selling it to buy much more than a cheap old motorhome!

I think I'd rather own an old motor home outright than live in a a mansion that held me captive to the debt/mortgage payment. There's a lot to be said for living simply. I find pleasure in so many free things now, like my dog, watching plants grow and produce, seeing the hummingbirds feed, even not cutting the grass as the dandelions are blooming. Land is a whole lot cheaper in the country as well for starting anew.

 

[QuietH3art]

My home is far from a mansion - lol. The payment is only 391 a month. Seriously, though, if I sell it, I might walk away with $10,000 and that won't buy an old motorhome AND a piece of land to park it on - which would be more than enough to make me happy.

 

[Brent S]

My home is far from a mansion - lol. The payment is only 391 a month. Seriously, though, if I sell it, I might walk away with $10,000 and that won't buy an old motorhome AND a piece of land to park it on - which would be more than enough to make me happy.

I've got to admit, that payment should be easy, and that's alot to consider as far as peace of mind. Someone once told me years ago, if you take a look at where you are in life and are not happy then make a plan to make the changes to get you there. I'm a typical guy, if I make a list or put a plan on paper then its alot easier to follow. Also, realize you cant do most worthwile changes overnight. Live style changes can be a five year plan.

 

[Gazrok]

Oh, I really wish you hadn't posted that. I did the nukemap based on a China's current 5 Mt hitting mainside Camp LeJeune. I fall within the "blue" area:

China doesn't really have a ton of missiles though, and you need a LOT to get through our current missile defense system (BMDS). The odds of them using a big boy on anything but a very prime target vs. a training facility are pretty limited I'd think.

Granted, our defenses aren't full-proof, but the PAC-3 and Aegis measures, along with who knows what satellite-based weaponry...means we'll probably knock out a big piece of any main attack.