Curious what that tells you?.....my life expectancy?
WHAT are some good subjects for: "Prepping Talk" Section.
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That sounds like the only people who will make it in the miserable post-apocalypse are the people who are already miserable, have trained themselves for even more misery, and routinely practice being miserable. Sounds like so much fun.
Well, like the other thread, that is almost the opposite of the point I was trying to make. Our comments seem to pass each other like ships in the night.
No, that is not what I think at all. I think those kind of people will be the first to die. Miserable people don't have the time, energy or resources, to learn survival skills. My whole point is that if prepping, and or living like it already happened is making you miserable, its because you're doing it wrong.
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They are only miserable in the "EYES" of people who see things as you see things. You see people who "CHOOSE" to live a Rugged simple, Subsistence lifestyle, as being miserable, because it would be miserable for YOU. I have been living it for 54 years now, and it is pure "BLISS" for me.
I was responding to Aerindel (apparently) calling them miserable:
But subsequent to my post, Aerindel made another post talking about what he meant. So evidently I, and Super, did not understand his comment as it was originally stated.
I cannot say that I understand exactly what Aerindel is trying to say about miserable people. But I imagine that may become clearer as time goes on and additional posts are made.
But in answer to your post, I was not calling them miserable myself, I was responding to what I thought Aerindel intending in his statement. i.e., If you are not experiencing misery now, you will not be prepared and will be one of the first who die after the SHTF.
I can't speak for him, But my read is he is NOT referencing himself or me. We have both live it for decades and have "mastered" that lifestyle. I suspect he is referring to "Squatters, or homeless" people living hand to mouth today, in outskirts of towns being miserable, but zero other options. If the SHTF, they will get "FLUSHED" away quickly.
I'm not sure if re-phrasing will do any good...but I'll try.
People who don't want to live like SHTF, already happened, don't want to do so because they think such a life will be worse than a normal life. They don't want to give that normal life and its comforts up now, just to be prepared for something that may never happen.
But they still imagine they will be able to make that transition to a worse life, when the time comes. Sort of a deathbed babtism if you would.
I think that in reality, most people would not be able to make that transition.
And,
Those already living a miserable life ALREADY, won't be able to survive SHTF either, because even though they perhaps have the mindset of living a bad life, and won't have that transition shock, that bad life doesn't leave them with the resources to survive any kind of disaster.
My argument is that you if you are properly prepared....your life after SHTF should not be significantly worse than it was before.
Living like it already happened is not a sacrifice, if you are well prepared.
Instead of preparing to do without the things you find valuable in a normal life, figure out how to KEEP those things, in an abnormal life.
Saying you won't live like it already happened, is really just saying you aren't prepared to a standard worth living.
People who don't want to live like SHTF, already happened, don't want to do so because they think such a life will be worse than a normal life. They don't want to give that normal life and its comforts up now, just to be prepared for something that may never happen.
But they still imagine they will be able to make that transition to a worse life, when the time comes. Sort of a deathbed babtism if you would.
I think that in reality, most people would not be able to make that transition.
And,
Those already living a miserable life ALREADY, won't be able to survive SHTF either, because even though they perhaps have the mindset of living a bad life, and won't have that transition shock, that bad life doesn't leave them with the resources to survive any kind of disaster.
My argument is that you if you are properly prepared....your life after SHTF should not be significantly worse than it was before.
Living like it already happened is not a sacrifice, if you are well prepared.
Instead of preparing to do without the things you find valuable in a normal life, figure out how to KEEP those things, in an abnormal life.
Saying you won't live like it already happened, is really just saying you aren't prepared to a standard worth living.
Correct.
There is no advantage in living like that now, or PLANNING to live like that later.
Prepare to live a life you find desirable, not a life you would only live, if forced to, and then work on making that happen now.
..It's called "Embrace the Suck".
(and, no, that's Not some 'call to champion immorality'.. It's merely extrapolating where the "standards of living" are Heading to - When, not if, but when - the standards we've All been 'spoiled by' are Gone (or at least severely challenged..) ie: Rhetorically: Could YOU / Fam - tomorrow - live / transition thru Zero - and I mean Zero - running water, for the next Who-knows-how-long? Or, what about Grid-Electric? If you've to "do" anything More than just 'flip a valve / switch or two' to Do so, well....Let's just simply repeat 'it's the Transition that Kills'.
As much of a perplexing statement as this might seem: I sometimes lament moving Back to the States, here, from living in El Salvador, and weren't it for Certain 'freedoms' (RTKBA, for one) - attacked though they may be, here - I'd strongly-consider moving Back.. ..and, No - that's not 'Anti-America Pinko-Punk noise'
- it's simply coming from the As-Experienced standpoint of 'Learning How to Live - Well - with Less, and Still be Happy, and Prosperous' - Not just "surviving", but Thriving, therein.Being "Miserable" (or not) is a Mindset. Which is wholly-controllable. Embrace the Suck.
jd
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How to live without the current system. That's a good talking point. How to create your own system, and a local system that works.
PERFECT.........for three thousand reasons. But most probable reason, "DEATH of the U.S. DOLLAR". But all reasons require the same NET-NET-NET end lifestyle.
This very accurately describes my feelings.
This does not describe my feelings at all. I would not make the transition.
We agree 100% on this.
Additionally, I believe that most of the people that think they are prepared to make the transition, will not be able to. This is where our viewpoints differ the most. I know that you and Sourdough are more prepped than I am, by a mile. But - no offense intended - I don't think this is going to help you much. Sure, you will live longer than I will. A year, two years, who knows. And what I may consider a miserable existence may not be quite as miserable for you. But after this relatively short period of time I believe that your advantage over me will have evaporated. You will have only slightly delayed the inevitable, not prevented it. This is just me looking into my crystal ball, making a prediction based on my gut. Just like you are making a prediction by looking into your crystal ball. Either, or both, of us could be wrong.
In my viewpoint, MOST LIKELY I will live out the rest of my life in a relatively civilized society. I will probably have running water and electricity for the majority of my remaining existence. I will probably never have to use an outhouse unless I'm camping or at some remote location. So the highest percentage of my preps, if you want to call them that, are for what I consider this most likely scenario. A large part of this is financial preparation - having money spread out and diversified and knowing how to make (not lose) money when the stock market comes crashing down, as it inevitably will. Probably sooner rather than later.
If instead everything comes crashing down and we no longer have a society - it is all gone forever - I would probably be able to make it for 3 to 6 months on the preps that I have. And that entire time would indeed be miserable. There is no guarantee that I would actually make it for that timeframe I am anticipating. Most likely my estimates are overly optimistic. Simply having enough food for that time doesn't mean you're going to survive for that time. Do I have the money to pack up everything and move to Alaska and purchase a reasonably sized homestead in a bid to live longer post SHTF? As a matter of fact, I do. But it would not be a wise use of that money IMHO. My crystal ball tells me, "Hey dude! Don't do that! That would be a brain-damaged stupid move on your part!" Wasn't it Clint Eastwood who said in a movie, "A man's just got to know his limitations"? I am not going to miraculously learn how to run a homestead and live totally on my own at my age. And I have the rest of my family to think of too.
"WELCOME" to "Prepping" vintage 1959. (The 60's & 70's). This is the foundation of Prepping Theory, subscribed to by Alaskajohn & myself and others, who have studied this for thirty to sixty years.
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I just like the abundant elbow room and the amazing Alaskan critters roaming free. That and not having codes or rules other than what is in the Good Book.
No place will be immune to what is coming, not even here. But SHTF will need to work a bit to get to me. My location was intentional for this purpose.
As I am sitting here in the warm, 52 degree sun eating last years smoked salmon on Triscuits, I can’t help but be concerned about what I will enjoy my salmon on as Triscuit have a short shelf life. My stocks of pilot bread just don’t taste as good as a Triscuit.
This brings up a prepping topic:
Gourmet long shelf life food.
I get that we need to embrace the suck, I want to enjoy eating in SHTF!
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Crackers are really not hard to make, I have a small paperback cookbook somewhere with just cracker recipes, and there's tons on line. Not sure how to make triscuits, but a soda cracker with some garlic salt and dried parmesan is pretty tasty. Better than a pilot cracker. You should try an easy cracker recipe.
Overall, I think your post represents a smart, rational approach.
There are just a few key differences in how I view things.
I know that I WILL have running water and electricity for the rest of my life...because my running water and electricity are not dependent on civilized society. This is key to my overall point that living like it already happened, is not a hardship if you are well prepared.
I am the first to admit, all preps have an 'expiration date' of some kind, even skills. The ONLY thing any of us can do, is delay the inevitable. In any scenario, we get old and die. Our food gets eaten, our machines eventually break down and rust away. Entropy is the ultimate god and cannot be defeated. 'slightly delaying the inevitable' is the meaning of life.
But this calls back to another of my 'core' prepping lessons.
Prepping is not a ultimate solution, it is a lifeboat.
Regardless of what happens, there will be an other side to it. None of us can predict what that other side will be. But some kind of stability will always emerge. Some 'new' or even an return to an old way of living. Maybe even a better way of living than we have now.
Prepping is a lifeboat, to get through the turbulent, violent, 'dying time', to give us time to make the transition to the new normal. You don't have to live forever, you just have to live until enough have died for things to stabilize.
Since you seem interested in playing the money market, think of it like surviving an economic crash. You don't have to have invented an ultimate, invincible investment,
You just have to be positioned so that when you come out on the other side of it, you can take advantage of the new opportunities every crash creates, rather than being one of those who jumps out of their office window.
This is unfortunate, but true of most people.
And like I said, in the statement that started all of this. If you think you will be miserable living off your preps, you have prepped the wrong things.
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...Well, there's This, too..
https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023...ed-with-migrants-leaving-panama-daily-n548420
https://allnewspipeline.com/Full_Scale_Invasion_And_Overthrow.php
Yeah, the 'fallout' from this 'invasion' hasn't even Yet begun, so.. Hold on to yer Butts, and Prep for 'How to Fortify your Home against Squatters' ('course, in Your case, it's No Issue (and the 'Bear Security Co' comes with the territory..
but for those of us not (yet) So-fortunate, well.. It's Certainly a 'relevant prepping-concern'..jd
..But that's Exactly what I mean by 'Embrace the suck', Good Sir John. The 'suck' is that Triscuits (which, I heartily agree, are Quite divine, especially some of the 'seasoned series', ie: Rosemary & Olive Oil
(Iirc) Cracked-Pepper / Sea Salt, etc, etc) won't be readily Available, at some point, but....the "Embracing" part is Not in the sense that you have to 'give up Triscuits for pilot or hardtack - and Be Happy' - like some Klaus Blofeld WEF bull
..No, 'Embrace the Suck' (in the Context of your Triscuits example) is - Right Now - while we all still Can - Learn how to Make something as close as Possible (for Us, the 'goal' is Ritz-clones
) that you're Happy with - and Stock-up / Prep for That inevitability, Now. That's more what I mean.Then, once the SHTF, you can Still sit on your porch - enjoying Your Salmon-on-Triscuits (literally, Yours
while you calmly watch all the 'Artificial Suns' pop off in the far-away distance.. Maybe something like 'Rise Above the Suck' is more on-point with the core-message, but.. I dunno That starts sounding too close to some bad B-movie..
I also 'hear the same message resonating' within one of my Other all-time fav quips: "Rise and Rise Again, until Lambs become Lions"
jd
What makes ANYONE think that POST SHTF will allow you to sit home and enjoy anything???
That will be substantially affected by how far someone is from other humans. And how many Fall-back cabins you have, deeper & deeper & deeper & DEEPER.
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Building a Bug out location. Each one of these can be a thread.
Shelter
Water & water storage
Wood for heat & cooking
Food, perennial garden, orchard, herb garden, annual garden with compost & worm bed.
If you have room at least one bee hive & trees for nectar.
A chicken coop, rabbit hunch, small duck pond.
Other live stock if you have room, pigs, milk cow/goats, horse/mule.
Small saw mill, wood shop, Blacksmith, solar power.
Shelter
Water & water storage
Wood for heat & cooking
Food, perennial garden, orchard, herb garden, annual garden with compost & worm bed.
If you have room at least one bee hive & trees for nectar.
A chicken coop, rabbit hunch, small duck pond.
Other live stock if you have room, pigs, milk cow/goats, horse/mule.
Small saw mill, wood shop, Blacksmith, solar power.
Decades of preparation.
It also has to do with attitude. And mine is admittedly bad for things that I don't really want to do. I am miserable when I have to mow the lawn. Yeuch, no fun! And so hot. And dirty! I can't imagine I'll be all smiling and happy if I have to go walk a hundred yards to chop down a tree to get some wood to light a fire to warm my house (probably in the rain too). That little rectangular thingy on the wall where I just push the up button a few times is more my style.
Hey, credit for honesty.
I admittedly, have the attitude of I would MUCH rather chop wood, than work a job to buy propane or electricity for heating. I mean, all work, is work....that little box on your wall I'm sure has cost you a great deal of time and effort as well.
Of course, I have prepped wood....so actually all I have to do is walk fifteen feet out my front door, pick up a piece of wood from the shed, and take it back instead and drop it in the stove, so I'm not walking a 100 yards to chop down a tree either. At least not for a couple years.
For that matter, I probably have a decade worth of standing wood within a hundred yards anyway.
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The communist party running America says you will not own anything!! Many will be shocked when it happens!!
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Based upon the last page and a bit of discussion, here are some other subjects to add to the list(s):
15) How big is your comfort zone, why is that important and how can you make it bigger.
16) What is the difference between the illusion of independence and real independence?
17) What are the every day things, in a genuine survivalist's lifestyle that compensate for what one gives up, to live that?
18) Why real survivalists are not miserable, but many of the unprepared think (or is it, would like to think) they must be.
19) The keys to prepping for severe crises are security, independence and sustainability - what preps give you all those?
20) The dangers of being half way prepared.
15) How big is your comfort zone, why is that important and how can you make it bigger.
16) What is the difference between the illusion of independence and real independence?
17) What are the every day things, in a genuine survivalist's lifestyle that compensate for what one gives up, to live that?
18) Why real survivalists are not miserable, but many of the unprepared think (or is it, would like to think) they must be.
19) The keys to prepping for severe crises are security, independence and sustainability - what preps give you all those?
20) The dangers of being half way prepared.
Fascinating conversation.
I thoroughly enjoy the conveniences of modern society, and I hope they never go away.
If they do go away, I feel confident I can adapt.
I work a moderately stressful office job that pays decently...enough that I won't quit it to start on a cabin in the woods with a lot of wood for SHTF. If, however, the S does HTF, and I lose that job, and money becomes worthless, and I have to work in the wilderness...I won't have ridiculous office job stress. I will have real life survival stress. I won't have ambiguous stress. I will stress with clarity. Which means I won't be paralyzed. I will just do what is necessary.
Combat veterans have stress with moral clarity, stress with important work. When they return, they have ambiguous stress for a job that is not as important, and in which there is perhaps moral ambiguity or which are morally unimportant. That is why they sign up for extra tours of duty. Write now, I have a somewhat morally unimportant job that pays too well for me to commit to society collapsing. But, if the SHTF, I will have moral clarity, and in moral clarity, motivation is easily found.
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A lot of questions about "do this or do that" in survivalism are not best answered with either option A or B.
Many, many of those questions are best answered by that other option called "do both"........the question of having low tech or high tech is most certainly one of those. So is the question about whether to provide comfort or just go bare bones.
Obtaining, keeping, practicing and maintaining the options provided by both low and high tech is the best way to maximize survival prospects.
If you have enough comfort to stay healthier and get better sleep....then that is a good thing.....provided that you are well accustomed to doing it rough.....in case that ends up being all you have.
The only question you need to ask about any resource or capability is "Does it improve my survival prospects?"
If the answer is yes, then it doesn't matter what level of tech/comfort is involved.
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A long time ago, me and my girlfriend where trying to figure out a 'philosophy of use' of the homestead we where just starting to build. A story of what this place was about, how it should look etc, to help guide all the complex decisions we had to make. Although at this time we where thinking about prepping, we where not primarily thinking about it
What we came up with as a 'theme', was medieval tower in the woods, that was taken over by survivors of a crashed spaceship.
What this translates to, is either high tech, exposed mechanisms as a 'layer' over low tech styles, not embedded in it. The best example of this , is that almost all our wiring and plumbing is not in the walls, but surface mounted in conduit.
