Brilliant advice. Thank you. I have some hardy artichokes on order and they can be left in the ground and harvested when needed, which helps me as I don't have a lot of storage space. I'm also taking seed heads off of Burdocks when I see them.
When there is no resupply
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I recently bought some of that. I can't wait to see how it does here. Thanks.
I lost a batch of squash because of and unexpected freeze. By the time I'd replanted and the plats got going, the season was over. It is so annoying when it happens. I hope your greenhouse arrives soon. I don't have the space for a greenhouse sadly. I'm cutting the top off fizzy pop bottles and using them as a sort of cloche. It helps a little.
Britain in that respect will be much different to America. most people will wait too long for someone else-the govt or some charity- to come and save them, most people will survive as long as their food stores-whats in their cupboards and freezers- do but as most people only do a weekly shop or sometimes twice or even 3 times a week that isnt going to last long. maybe a month but probably a lot less in most cases.
anyone who lives in a big city or near a big city or an urban town with a large population "may" have problems with looters but the further one is away from these locations the better off they will be, people are not going to travel far from where they live, they wont abandon their homes but they will travel as far as they can in one day and still get home that evening, once the petrol stations are empty, most British people drive on empty, that means they will be walking so that lessens the mileage even more.
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I have not butchered a cow, but cows have the same muscles as deer and I've butchered plenty of deer by just separating the muscles and vacuum packing each muscle. Some, like the loins, are too big and I just I cut them in half, thirds, or quarters so they fit in the vacuum bags.
FoodSaver makes a large heavy duty vacuum packer with heavy duty multi-layer vacuum bags called the "GameSaver." I have found that the regular vacuum bags sometimes develop leaks, but the GameSaver bags do not.
https://www.amazon.com/FoodSaver-Vacuum-GM710-000-GameSaver-Sealing/dp/B016C4KJS0https://www.amazon.com/FoodSaver-GameSaver-BPA-Free-Multilayer-Construction/dp/B002DHRHOAFresh properly vacuum packed meat in the GameSaver bags lasts a long long time in a deep freeze (non-frost free). When our big chest freezer died, I found some vacuum packed venison down in the bottom that had been in there for many years. Still good as new.
That is a very good and well made point. My brain has a tendency to go to 'worse case mode' when I ponder such things. In your opinion, friend, how do you think countryside dwellers who run out of food will react? Can you see them going after people's allotments, for instance? Can you see them going after farmer's chickens or eggs?
You made an excellent point further up on this thread when you said that people will not have fuel to cook food with. I think a lot near me order a pizza if the power goes off, and that is fine for one day, but I don't think they have any long term plans. Any tips on cutting down food smells when cooking when no else can?
Any advice is welcomed and I am grateful for your comments so far.
it depends what you mean by "countryside dwellers", if you mean the "born there, live there, die there" brigade then no, but the incomers, the commuters may be very different but if they start attacking and looting the old time country dwellers then they may be in for a shock.
we had a career burglar who made the mistake of trying to steal from a small town not far from here where I used to live, he was caught and hung out of an upstairs window by his ankles by someone I knew (not me) and told to leave the area and not come back, he left that day, and thats in what we call the "good days", after the collapse you can imagine what would happen.
as for take away food, only one take away out here in the sticks, thats a fish and chip shop and TBH their stuff isnt worth eating. we are too far out from anywhere for a take away delivery.
I dont know any way of cutting down on food smells but immediately post collapse it may be wise to refrain from cooking for awhile and eat those things that can be eaten cold or with little cooking, cold meats, corned beef, cheese or warm a can of soup if its a cold day.
I have a lot of those camping meal pouches and they can be boiled in the bag with little or no aroma in a few minutes.
there will be a reduction in population after awhile as the population moves away, relocates or is taken ill from lack of food and water so they wont be moving about much.
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Can't speak for the UK, but in the US there are more city hunters than rural hunters. Primarily because by population more people live in citys than rural areas. No doubt most of the inner cities, ghettos and high rise dwellers won't have a clue. Just because someone lives in a city doesn't mean that they don't know anything about hunting, fishing or survival. I would never underestimate what knowledge another person possess.
Thank you, BigPaul. I don't know what it is like for you nor am I digging for info. Please do not share anything that makes you feel uncomfortable.
Where I am we have famers with large acreage, many crop types plus livestock.
A few have very large, old homes (must have cost a fortune to buy and really gorgeous places) and large gardens - mostly landscaped by professionals, pea gravel drives and shrubs with not much maintenance required.
Some are elderly and have space but don't grow food.
Some of us, like me, only have a small garden but try our best to grow what we can given the circumstances.
Some are no doubt born here. I came from another village 15 miles away.
Some have accents from other places ... Maybe London or Kent? I am not really sure. These people obviously have money as they have paved driveways, perfectly manicured lawns with no 'weeds' (food as I consider them) really nice cars and the like. I don't see much food growing going on, mind.
There is also an area of council places. I have nothing against council estates as I grew up on one. These people don't seem to be doing anything - and this does worry me. They do not even worry about cutting the grass and some of them have skips full of rubbish and the like.
Being completely honest, it is the last type that concern me the most. If/when the power is off and the food runs out ...well, these people will be a handful; some of them already are on the weekends once they have had a skin-full or when the drugs kick in - if you get what I mean.
I cannot afford to move. I do have skills and gear that would allow me to leave for an extended period, if it really did go bananas here. That said, all my livestock (mainly birds) would perish and the thought of coming home again (if I had to leave) and trying to to find stock ... well, it does worry me.
You seem like a strong, knowledgeable, stoic person - any advice for me on this, please? Best wishes.
Where I am we have famers with large acreage, many crop types plus livestock.
A few have very large, old homes (must have cost a fortune to buy and really gorgeous places) and large gardens - mostly landscaped by professionals, pea gravel drives and shrubs with not much maintenance required.
Some are elderly and have space but don't grow food.
Some of us, like me, only have a small garden but try our best to grow what we can given the circumstances.
Some are no doubt born here. I came from another village 15 miles away.
Some have accents from other places ... Maybe London or Kent? I am not really sure. These people obviously have money as they have paved driveways, perfectly manicured lawns with no 'weeds' (food as I consider them) really nice cars and the like. I don't see much food growing going on, mind.
There is also an area of council places. I have nothing against council estates as I grew up on one. These people don't seem to be doing anything - and this does worry me. They do not even worry about cutting the grass and some of them have skips full of rubbish and the like.
Being completely honest, it is the last type that concern me the most. If/when the power is off and the food runs out ...well, these people will be a handful; some of them already are on the weekends once they have had a skin-full or when the drugs kick in - if you get what I mean.
I cannot afford to move. I do have skills and gear that would allow me to leave for an extended period, if it really did go bananas here. That said, all my livestock (mainly birds) would perish and the thought of coming home again (if I had to leave) and trying to to find stock ... well, it does worry me.
You seem like a strong, knowledgeable, stoic person - any advice for me on this, please? Best wishes.
Thank you for this insight. Does this mean, for example, a person may have an interest in hunting or fishing but have moved to the city for financial gains and that they go to the country for long weekends and vacation and that they keep their skills honed in this respect?
I, too, never underestimate anyone. It seems counterproductive to me to do so. Sun Tzu and all that.
We do have an edged weapon problem in the UK and sometimes that makes the news. I do not doubt that there are plenty of illegally possessed firearms in the cities too. After all class A drugs are illegal in the UK but folks get their hands on them if they have the will to do so.
I personally think the only thing that firearms registration does is to put law abiding people on a database. great for anyone who wishes to control others; not at all good for people who want to abide by the law, be left alone, and mind their own business.
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One of the main concerns that I have is water. I live in a semi arid area and any garden and orchard needs to be irrigated. We get a lot of snow in winter but little to no rain in summer. We're fine as long as we have fuel to run the well pump. We have springs, creeks and a spring fed pond over an area of several square miles. The problem is, if fuel were no longer available, would be getting water to our current garden.
I would imagine that people living on municipal water systems would have similar problems as there would be severe water rationing until the water runs out. We could move our garden a half mile away near the pond and hand water. People that live in areas that get summer rain could collect the run off in barrels.
I would imagine that people living on municipal water systems would have similar problems as there would be severe water rationing until the water runs out. We could move our garden a half mile away near the pond and hand water. People that live in areas that get summer rain could collect the run off in barrels.
exactly, thats why many UK preppers dont want to go that route, there are other ways.
fishing is legal and popular, personally I cant see any point in "sport" fishing.
as for hunting that is heavily licenced and the hunter has to have the landowners permission, all land in England is owned by someone, there is no such thing as "public" land, even Dartmoor is owned by someone.
Okay. May sound mad but can you harvest the snow fall into barrels for later use? Yeah, fuel is going to be a bummer, mate. Can you get up a gravity fed system? Magnets with an opposing/attraction set up can provide energy forever ...if it would be strong enough to power up your pumps ??? I just don't know. Do not give away personal information here, friend. It would depend on how much ground need to be irrigated and for how many months in the year.
There used to be videos on a certain video hosting site about all this but they have all be taken down.
I might be able to find something but no promises, friend. Stuff is getting torn down all the time, right? I don't know how to do a PM here yet (I am a dunderhead and very new here) perhaps just pm saying howdy and I will dig about and you'll be the first to know if I find something as I will message you back.
There used to be videos on a certain video hosting site about all this but they have all be taken down.
I might be able to find something but no promises, friend. Stuff is getting torn down all the time, right? I don't know how to do a PM here yet (I am a dunderhead and very new here) perhaps just pm saying howdy and I will dig about and you'll be the first to know if I find something as I will message you back.
as you know I am in North Devon, this is hill farming country, Dairy and Beef Cattle, Pigs , but a lot of Sheep-I think there is more money in Sheep these days, some commercial chicken farms, we buy all our free range eggs from people that have a few chickens and sell the eggs, we buy all our meat from a farm near the Cornwall border and its delivered to the door, havent eaten supermarket meat for over 15 years.
you dont need a garden to grow food, most veg can be grown in containers on a balcony or in a yard.
not so many Londoners here they tend to buy in Cornwall places like Padstow, and Bude for the surfing.
I grew up on housing estates, not council ones as such but I know a lot of people who did grow up on them, some still live there but I dont know why, I got out 25 years ago and now live on the edge of a small rural market town, no crime here as such and what there is can be classed as the "domestic" type, we dont see a policeman from month to month, most of the rural Devon police stations have been closed.
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I live in a very sparsely populated area, 18 miles from a town of 500 and in a county of 2800 people. My ranch is surrounded by over a million acres of public domain land (Forest Sevice mostly). My neighbor to the north of me (10 miles) owns over 175,000 acres of land. This area has a large population of deer, elk, bear, mountain lions, grouse and turkeys. People come from all over the state to hunt this area. Most of the hunters that I see around here are what we call flat landers and city f#@ks. Most are good people and some I see every year. A couple of them camp by our lower gate every fall and occasionally I'll stop by and have a few drinks with them.
. Suggestion if it’s in the middle of growing season. IBC tanks filled at the pond and brought up to the garden. 275 gal would be about 2250lb with the tank if your loader will handle it. A couple tanks around might be worth it.
Have you ever consider keeping a few chickens for eggs? Or maybe some small, quiet duel purpose (meat and egg) quails? I purchased eggs from a farm close to us both. The eggs are gorgeous and the birds are large and strong. Perhaps you may do this in the future, if you do not have a flock yet?
Hill farming is great. Sheep are good but goats are entertainment on a plate. Anybody who owns a goat will never watch a TV again - a bit like chicken keepers - they are all of them bonkers and in the best way!
Best advice: if you have space for chickens and a few goats ... GET A DONKEY! This combo means you never need to worry about hawks, buzzards, foxes or arrogant off lead dog walkers. Have you ever seen what a donkey can do to a hyena?
Reckon some of our best and amazing friends out in the more southernly parts (trying to be diplomatic here) of the USA know about coyotes and wolves and stuff ...reckon they a lot about donkey too!
Can you give me two weeks to pick my jaw up off the floor?! lol. Dang!!!! I knew America was big and I have seen maps that compare sizes of landmass and I know my entire country fits into many of your States many times over but ... when I actually converse with a person that can give me actual acreages ... a little bit of wee comes out! The size of Russia makes a little bit of wee come out also.
DANG!
Please consider that my mind is BLOWN! Just wow!
If you should ever find yourself short (and you won't... EVER!) of middle aged English women who can shot a flea off a bear's rear end and 800M, then you know you where to find me.
Haa haa.Now if you would please excuse me; I have a jaw and teeth to pick up off the carpet lol .
Wasn't know there are still bears in England except in an zoo..... 
We have a few hairy biker types who bat for the other team that are calling themselves 'bears'. Yeah, these leather type daddies are scared off easy by the right types of dogs or mums.Wasn't know there are still bears in England except in an zoo.....
Real bears - nope, the doggos killed them all.
In the county I live is called a pub "The Bear Cross" the sign for ages used to be a staked bear surrounded by hounds. Then the left got power and the pub name is changed and so is the signage. Think they'll go broke this year ... hopefully.
Those who do not not know the past are doomed to receive an echo.
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Usually we irrigate the garden/orchard from May to September. Combined I guess it covers close to a 1/2 acre. Our well is 1/4 mile away and I have about a half mile of buried water lines, 5 feet deep to prevent freezing. We usually water every other day during summer. Our well pump is 5 hp and puts out 15 gpm. The well is 650 feet deep and we pump it over a hill to the house and garden. The problem with storing water in barrels or tanks is they'd freeze solid in winter. A couple plans that I'm considering is drilling another well close to the garden and house, and damming up some of the spring runoff creeks to hold back more water.
Sending a PM is easy. Just click on a members avatar and look for "send a message".
Friend I thank you very much for this advice. Please let me dig on your behalf. You have important stuff to be getting on with. Look, I cannot promise an answer, right? But I can promise to try my rear end off to try to help, okay? My best wishes to you and the ones you acre about for now. Give me few days.
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Here's another little FYI for you, my state is over 85% public domain land; forest service, state forest, BLM and other. Most all of this land is open for hunting, fishing, trapping, camping etc. Much of it is open for filing mining claims on too, where a person owns the mineral rights and can mine on it.Can you give me two weeks to pick my jaw up off the floor?! lol. Dang!!!! I knew America was big and I have seen maps that compare sizes of landmass and I know my entire country fits into many of your States many times over but ... when I actually converse with a person that can give me actual acreages ... a little bit of wee comes out! The size of Russia makes a little bit of wee come out also.
DANG!
Please consider that my mind is BLOWN! Just wow!
If you should ever find yourself short (and you won't... EVER!) of middle aged English women who can shot a flea off a bear's rear end and 800M, then you know you where to find me.
Now if you would please excuse me; I have a jaw and teeth to pick up off the carpet lol .
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@Holly1 You make some great points here girl! My hope is that everyone does a garden of some sort, be it a small backyard type for a kitchen garden, which is what I have right now. My retired Hunny seems to think he will be able to plant and tend the BIG garden this year, but so far he has only one raised bed planted so not hopeful. I honestly have limited time working full time, taking care of a disabled parent, and all the critters at the small farm we have. I am also aware most will not even try though. they are too busy watching makeup tips on Instagram? Everything I have seen lately says a Food and even Water shortages are coming. This should be number 1 priority for all.
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The Pacific Northwest has their city dwelling tree huggers, in the South we have city dwelling hunters and fishermen. It's an excuse to get out of the city.
In my case, like many others, I live in the city for practical reasons, but have land in the country. Growing up I escaped from the city whenever I had a chance and headed out into the country, either to our land or to relatives' land.
We bought years ago outside a "little" city and had planned on making this our bug in location. We have enough land here to hunt which is a rare find anymore and because hogs are considered a plague here, get to hunt on a regular basis since it is open season on those.
The city has gotten too close so we bought a second much larger location which we are in the process of developing so we can live in some comfort (like cell service would be nice), in the middle of nowhere .
The kids are all adults now, some married and our group has grown to 30 so we needed more land.
Almost everyone I know hunts and fishes, children and women included.
A lot of the city people pay for a "deer lease" from people like us that own land and then, use it during the hunting season.
It's a little different when you live on the land 24/7/365 though. I have a private shooting range in my back yard.
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I'm a hairy biker and so are many of my friends. and we dont bat for anyone else. been a biker all my life, Big Paul is my biker nickname by which I am known by bikers/outlaws and hells angels alike.
I dont suppose you've ever met a REAL biker before. just "motorcyclists".
I'm out of here now.
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For those with a creek, stream or river near them, have you looked into using Hydraulic Ram Pumps?
Wait and see how fast they change their minds when the produce isn't available.
