Why Higher Minimum Wage?

[lonewolf]

I got fed up of being judged by the way I looked and not on my skills and knowledge so eventually I went self employed. people who wanted me to do some work for them didnt care what I looked like and they liked my work so many of them became regular customers.
nobody should be able to tell others how to dress or how to look, thats discrimination.
funny that, it reminds me of the time I met someone for the first time who said if he hadnt know me before post SHTF he would have shot me on sight.

 

[GaRp58]

In my driving school, I required each of the students to speak to my instructors as Mr. or Mrs./Ms. The level of respect needed in the trucks and buses for professional drivers was the idea. You deal with thousands of persons yearly and need to be a positive face in the forced competition of trucking and bussing. Nobody needs any negative advertisement from a poorly trained, paid or adversely acting employee on the daily markets today. I learned that if you found something good, (hotel, motel, vacation spot or eat-out place) you normally told 3-4 persons it was GOOD. But if you found something bad, then you would normally tell 8-10 persons of the negative experience...how people look is judged very much so by many in this world of pretty women magazines, fashion TV shows and the general publics view of what is considered ""normal""sadly. GP

 

[lonewolf]

people should be judged on whether they can do a certain job, not on how they look.

 

[Amish Heart]

There is a certain look required for a specific job. My teaching staff needed to look professional, and it showed respect to the students and the parents that we cared about how we looked. Not so with some early childhood centers, and they had problems. A four year old at another center was trying to stab herself with sharp objects in her face to duplicate a teacher's facial piercings. Another center had children using markers all over themselves to copy teacher's tattoos. Another cut their own hair to imitate a teacher's mohawk. Being a good example is important.
But I do get what you say, BigPaul, about being judged because you look a certain way. Job wise, though, people need to look the job. Dress the job. I would not be digging ditches looking like an old granny Mennonite woman, dressed how I am. And I could dig a ditch.
My nephew pushes the limit on this. He is a good Christian man, in Oklahoma. But he does look like a biker, and was one for many years. Bald head, long scroungy beard with rubber bands in it, tats, biker boots, wears leather, openly carries his pistol. He job is putting in security systems in people's homes. It works.

 

[lonewolf]

it sure does work, unless people actually know me they keep away from me looking the way I do, which suits me fine.
I'm very surprised though at some of the attitudes on what is a prepping and survival site.

 

[Amish Heart]

What are you surprised about? Gray man is all about fitting in to your surroundings.

 

[lonewolf]

and if we cant or wont we make sure that other people stay the hell away from us in any way we can.
but its not about that, some of these attitudes I've read sound like some BS Sheeple citizen talking not a prepper or a survivalist, maybe its more of a cultural difference, it was Churchill I think that said Britain and USA were 2 countries divided by a common language, maybe he should have added "by culture too".
despite the forum name I fear we are getting too far away from our core discussions, its turning into more of a political forum than a prepping one. not why I joined.

 

[BillMasen]

I used to ask of my staff, CLEAN CASUAL, if they had Tats we did not mind so long as they were not offensive, insulting or obscene, Long hair needed to by tied back to keep it out the machinery, and absolutely NO religious imagery or symbols on display except for Sikh turbans ( we had no sikhs anyway. Jewelry was limited to wedding rings ( covered if operating certain machines). We also all agreed no POLITICAL or RELIGIOUS discussion on the floor or the office.

 

[BillMasen]

I'm that good looking no one hassled me over my appearance

 

[Inmarinen]

according to Marxism-Lenism (Socialism),
a person receives a salary according to the complexity of the work he does and does not depend on the profit of the Enterprise, which belongs to the Government.
All prices and quantities of products are fixed by the Plan.

According to Adam Smith (Capitalism), a person's salary depends on the profits of the Capitalist for whom he works and does not depend on the complexity of labor.
All prices and quantities of goods are set by supply / demand on the Free Market.

but.. there is no Free Market now. There is globalization, when prices are set by several people, monopolies, oligarchs.

 

[BillMasen]

I like the UKs Minimum wage system and its twin the LIVING wage scheme. Min wage is as it says on the packet, LIVING wage is a voluntary scheme adopted by many companies who agree to pay a higher rate if the company is thriving.

I think people got pi55ed with companies like Amazon making billions but paying almost NO tax in the UK whilst paying the absolute lowest wages in the UK. or Hermes the courier company paying its drivers something obscene like 35P per parcel (50 cents) even if they had to go back to the adress three times to make the delivery and the drivers had to provide their own vehicles and fuel and insurance.

So I think a FAIR Minimum wage is a good thing, even the most unskilled of workers needs to earn enough to feed his family, as others point out flipping burgers, collecting shopping trolleys , picking litter, cleaning hotel rooms is the limit of what many good folks are capable of.

 

[Dracos]

If people want to look like a hoodlum then they need to prepared to be treated like one.

In the 60's and 70's I wore my hair long. My mother (who made Nixon look like a liberal) told me. "The only reason you go around like that is because you're lazy and don't want any one to hire you". I wish she would have lived to see my resume.

 

[Inmarinen]

1. there is a "minimum wage" and there is a "standard of living" ...
In the US, these concepts are equal and counts as $ 15 an hour for government employees. I don't know about others. you do not pay taxes and social security contributions from the minimum wage.

2. there is an "average statistical salary" ..
. Americans sign a contract for 1 year. It is equal to 75 thousand dollars. you pay taxes ... on average 20 percent, then you get "cash in hand" but,...

the most important thing is not in the salary, but in the "consumer basket", the necessary expenses ...
- the medicine
- food, hygiene, cheap clothing
- Real estate - mortgage payments, rent, utilities, property tax
- Education
- Transport, public or car
- Equipment, furniture, electronics
- Relaxation.

when you paid for the "consumer basket", you have Savings ...

what is capitalism?
you must pay all expenses from the "consumer basket"

what is Communism?
The government pays all expenses from the "consumer basket", so money is not needed.
but Communism never existed

what is socialism?
The government pays part of the spending from the "consumer basket"
(in the USSR, free medicine, apartments, education, recreation)

 

[Dracos]

1. there is a "minimum wage" and there is a "standard of living" ...
In the US, these concepts are equal and counts as $ 15 an hour for government employees. I don't know about others. you do not pay taxes and social security contributions from the minimum wage.

2. there is an "average statistical salary" ..
. Americans sign a contract for 1 year. It is equal to 75 thousand dollars. you pay taxes ... on average 20 percent, then you get "cash in hand" but,...

the most important thing is not in the salary, but in the "consumer basket", the necessary expenses ...
- the medicine
- food, hygiene, cheap clothing
- Real estate - mortgage payments, rent, utilities, property tax
- Education
- Transport, public or car
- Equipment, furniture, electronics
- Relaxation.

when you paid for the "consumer basket", you have Savings ...

what is capitalism?
you must pay all expenses from the "consumer basket"

what is Communism?
The government pays all expenses from the "consumer basket", so money is not needed.
but Communism never existed

what is socialism?
The government pays part of the spending from the "consumer basket"
(in the USSR, free medicine, apartments, education, recreation)

Blacksmith friend. Even when you write pretty good English I don't understand some of what you say.
Even when I made minimum wage I always paid social security and income tax. Point 2; Does the state, Russia pay for items in in the "consumer basket? If so then, WOW, What % does the state pay.
I have read the writings of Karl Marks. Sounds pretty good "From each according to his ability to each according to his need". But as you say "Communism never happened." Please forgive me a small Russian joke, ( Q) "What is a 7 course dinner in Moscow? ( A) A 6 pack and a potato.

 

[Mountain trapper]

In the commercial diving industry tatoos are almost required. They make a body easier to ID if all they recover is a few chunks.

I dont give a crap if someone is covered head to toe in tattoos. They just won't work for me if the tatts extend above their collar. Even in the oil fields I expected all of my employees to look professional. For the amount of money I was paying them it wasn't too much to expect.

 

[Dracos]

and if we cant or wont we make sure that other people stay the hell away from us in any way we can.
but its not about that, some of these attitudes I've read sound like some BS Sheeple citizen talking not a prepper or a survivalist, maybe its more of a cultural difference, it was Churchill I think that said Britain and USA were 2 countries divided by a common language, maybe he should have added "by culture too".
despite the forum name I fear we are getting too far away from our core discussions, its turning into more of a political forum than a prepping one. not why I joined.

Everyone asks sometimes "Why am I here?" What is the purpose? I think what we are doing here can be explained in a few sentences. Acquire land. Acquire the means to defend it. Stash food and supplies for whatever things you can imagine and some you can't. Prepare for the future. There, that's just about it. I have spent almost a lifetime and a fortune doing that.
For me, I live in a very isolated part of the world and greatly enjoy exchanging banter and information with such a diverse group of people. What would Asgard be like without Thor? (You) Olympus without Athena?
(Amish Heart). We all Know that a good sniper can put a 50 cal bullet through our pumpkin from over a mile away. And take all our stuff including our women and children. We do the best we can and take enjoyment where ever we find it. What else is there?

 

[Amish Heart]

Just living life. That's pretty much it

 

[Inmarinen]

Blacksmith friend. Even when you write pretty good English I don't understand some of what you say.
Even when I made minimum wage I always paid social security and income tax. Point 2; Does the state, Russia pay for items in in the "consumer basket? If so then, WOW, What % does the state pay.
I have read the writings of Karl Marks. Sounds pretty good "From each according to his ability to each according to his need". But as you say "Communism never happened." Please forgive me a small Russian joke, ( Q) "What is a 7 course dinner in Moscow? ( A) A 6 pack and a potato.

okay, arguing against Capitalism-Socialism-Communism is a very long discussion.
Better not to argue yet ...
It should be said that I have never heard the joke about "7 dishes and 1 potato"
.. because the real shortage of food was only in the early 90s, when the USSR had already collapsed .. 91-93 years are sugar coupons, tea, butter, cigarettes, alcohol ...

If you mean Soviet jokes from the 70s and 80s, then the best ones are about beer, because there were no problems with food in those years.
look here ..
Workers walk after work, stand in line at a beer bar, then see the sign "ПИВА НЕТ" (No beer)and a nasty fat lady behind the counter ..

the working people are very angry and swear, "the damned Nomenklatura drank all the beer. They opened the bottles with a hammer and sickle."


besides, Russians / Soviets like to laugh at themselves, but foreigners don't understand the meaning of jokes ...
Take a look at the photo I give.


This is a modern photo in which the Russians "stand in line for milk" ...
Foreigners will think that there is no milk in Russia ..
But actually:
- this is a photo when the owners of the country houses "Dacha" get together and discuss various issues ...
They scold Putin, the government ...

And they buy farm milk.

 

[user 7000]

Blacksmith friend. Even when you write pretty good English I don't understand some of what you say.
Even when I made minimum wage I always paid social security and income tax. Point 2; Does the state, Russia pay for items in in the "consumer basket? If so then, WOW, What % does the state pay.
I have read the writings of Karl Marks. Sounds pretty good "From each according to his ability to each according to his need". But as you say "Communism never happened." Please forgive me a small Russian joke, ( Q) "What is a 7 course dinner in Moscow? ( A) A 6 pack and a potato.

I believe he meant government employees do not pay social security taxes, and they don't. At least in the U.S. they don't.

 

[rrodscott]

I did a little math. If Pedro and Yolanda at age, 16 drop out and go to work at Burger King, at $15.00 per hour each, they will bring in $62,400.00 a year. What's the incentive to go to school?

It's basic economics. When people make more money, they spend more money, and profits go up for the people selling the goods and services. Business owners will have to become more lean and mean to compete for customers and the best employees. Too many small businesses in the US have owners who believe that their responsibility is to drop by the business once a month and clean out the business account to fund their lifestyle, but do very little actual work. If asked what they do for a living, they'll say something like "business owner." I worked for a guy who'd clean out the company account once a month and fly to Vegas to snort coke and bang hookers. When he bought the business, he put his wife, son, cousin, and father on the payroll and none of them showed up to do anything other than pick up a check.
I'm all for $15/hr phased in over four years. Business owners will complain about it during their daily golf games, but who cares?

 

[BillMasen]

Why a higher minimum wage, INFLATION and DEPRECIATION its that simple. The annial inflation rate erodes the buying power of the $, and the value of your savings. and depreciation devalues stuff people own they want to sell.

If folks object to minimum wages then most of you would accept you should only be getting about 25 cents a day and be able to buy a Colt Peacemaker for $25. There would be no need for MW if there was no INFLATION, but their is. .

 

[user 6493]

I think the $15 an hour is to much for starter jobs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but there are thousands of places that only will pay as little as the law allows and rarely give raises they take advantage of the law and employees,,,,,,,,,so my question is what is an entry level job where do you draw the line

 

[BillMasen]

I think the $15 an hour is to much for starter jobs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but there are thousands of places that only will pay as little as the law allows and rarely give raises they take advantage of the law and employees,,,,,,,,,so my question is what is an entry level job where do you draw the line

Good point, a minimum wage is only realistic providing the local economy can sustain it. , Perhaps lower wages for students just earning a few bucks for college, but $15 for adults trying to support families??

 

[MOS0231]

I entered the job place working at a fast food place in mall at the age of 16. There I learned the value of work for pay, taxes (Who is this FICA guy and why is he taking that much out of my paycheck?) and savings.
Back then (late 80s) it was a entry level job, that you got a nickel increase at your annual date of hire. Unless you showed interest and moved up to management, it was never meant to be a career job, support a family or was a second job to augment another job. With the exception of middle or upper management, most of us were teens/high schoolers, with a few college types mixed in.
Nowadays, walk into a fast food place, and yes, you will find the average age of the work crew to be in their 20s or even 30s. For some, that job is their primary source of income.

I think a raise of the min wage to $15 an hour could do one of three things,
1) The rest of the economy will adjust accordingly, and the $15/hr will be the new $7.25, gaining nothing other than a warm and fuzzy. That burger/taco is now $25, the value meal, $33.
2) A $15/hr wage will make automation more attractive (already is) and will bring it to a local fast food restaurant that much faster. A shift crew of say a dozen people will be replaced by a robot/s and only three warm bodies will actually be making that $15/hr. The other nine will be on unemployment.
3) Accelerate an economic crash, hyper-inflation, and no one will be able to afford a burger/taco when it costs $113. The value meal, $147.

Point is, it seems we are accelerating toward event horizon of more economic strife leading to social or civil strife.
Plant a garden, get as resilient or non-dependent on the "system" as possible. Pay off debt.

 

[Dracos]

I entered the job place working at a fast food place in mall at the age of 16. There I learned the value of work for pay, taxes (Who is this FICA guy and why is he taking that much out of my paycheck?) and savings.
Back then (late 80s) it was a entry level job, that you got a nickel increase at your annual date of hire. Unless you showed interest and moved up to management, it was never meant to be a career job, support a family or was a second job to augment another job. With the exception of middle or upper management, most of us were teens/high schoolers, with a few college types mixed in.
Nowadays, walk into a fast food place, and yes, you will find the average age of the work crew to be in their 20s or even 30s. For some, that job is their primary source of income.

I think a raise of the min wage to $15 an hour could do one of three things,
1) The rest of the economy will adjust accordingly, and the $15/hr will be the new $7.25, gaining nothing other than a warm and fuzzy. That burger/taco is now $25, the value meal, $33.
2) A $15/hr wage will make automation more attractive (already is) and will bring it to a local fast food restaurant that much faster. A shift crew of say a dozen people will be replaced by a robot/s and only three warm bodies will actually be making that $15/hr. The other nine will be on unemployment.
3) Accelerate an economic crash, hyper-inflation, and no one will be able to afford a burger/taco when it costs $113. The value meal, $147.

Point is, it seems we are accelerating toward event horizon of more economic strife leading to social or civil strife.
Plant a garden, get as resilient or non-dependent on the "system" as possible. Pay off debt.

If $15.00 per hour will really benefit the economy then just think what $60.00 would do. Some people in congress have actually called for an annual handout, for doing nothing. They do this to get the masses to vote for them. In reality it will just speed up our rush to the cliff. When I was 15 I worked on a farm for $5.00 dollars a day, and I saved money. It really taught me the value of a dollar. Today's kids think they "need" a fancy pair of new shoes, or a new phone or game. They have no concept of what need really is.

 

[kevin321]

Answer to the original question: Because it hasn’t been raised in 12 years and it hasn’t kept up with inflation. $7.25/hr is laughable.

 

[user 6493]

Answer to the original question: Because it hasn’t been raised in 12 years and it hasn’t kept up with inflation. $7.25/hr is laughable.

now that depends on who you talk to,,,,,,,the employee or the employer

 

[Mountain trapper]

Minimum wage is NOT meant to be a living wage. Its a starting point in some jobs. I've never worked for minimum wage in my life. I've never known what minimum was even, still don't. It didn't matter to me. If I didn't like the wage the employer was offering I'd go somewhere else. A minimum wage job is a good incentive for a young person to learn a trade, skill or get education to make themselves more valuable to a company. And then go where the jobs are instead of whinging about the low wage and begging for the government to make things easier.

 

[user 6493]

Minimum wage is NOT meant to be a living wage. Its a starting point in some jobs. I've never worked for minimum wage in my life. I've never known what minimum was even, still don't. It didn't matter to me. If I didn't like the wage the employer was offering I'd go somewhere else. A minimum wage job is a good incentive for a young person to learn a trade, skill or get education to make themselves more valuable to a company. And then go where the jobs are instead of whinging about the low wage and begging for the government to make things easier.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it's easy to make comments like yours when you don't know what it is like to be poor,,,,,

I grew up poor and understand how much of a trap it can be,,,many never get out of it and it is not completely their fault,,,there are many who just are not smart enough to do it,,,many make the mistake of having children and it is all they can do to feed them let alone get an education or get in where they can learn a trade

what would you have us do line them up against a wall and shoot them because they don't measure up to your standards

 

[kevin321]

now that depends on who you talk to,,,,,,,the employee or the employer

Minimum wage protects the employee, obviously.