You Better Take A Longer View Of Preparing Because Day One Is NOV-3

[Meerkat]

If you are living in a city or even a big town, and if you think that a major infrastructure collapse is imminent, and if you believe that this collapse will be permanent, then you are probably be faced with a choice of either attempting to shelter permanently in place or to bug out. Either way, IMNHO, the chances are better than even that you will die.

Cheerful thought, isn't it?

But think about it. If you shelter in place, sooner or later you will run out of food/water/medicines. Absent the rule of law, you will be forced to (1) beg from others, who probably won't give you doodly-squat; or (2) attempt to take if from someone else by force. Unless you can outnumber the defensive position person by about three to one, you will probably be killed.

If you bug out, you will be leaving the area you're familiar with, leaving much of your supplies behind and trying to survive while competing against other people who are already where you will be, who undoubtedly know the place better than you and are near their own supplies, e.g., farmers who aren't interested in sharing or sitting back and let you walk in and take their food; indeed, they will probably see you coming before you see them and you will probably be killed.

"But wait!" you might say. "I have my AR and my Ka-bar and loads of ammunition and I know woodcraft and can live off dead squirrels and dried hazelnuts!" Uhhh... no. Even if you are the one-tenth of one percent of the bugger-outers who could actually live off the land for an extended period of time (and no, I do not mean a weekend hunting trip with a cell phone and Google Maps to the nearest Starbucks), there are going to be a bazillion other panicky people who, having driven off every deer, elk and bunny-rabbit to northern Saskatchewan, will shoot everything that moves, including you (and your family).

Remember, if you bug out and don't have a place to go, you're not a prepper or a survivalist. You're a refugee. And even if you do have a hidey-hole complete with a working well, garden, pen full of animals, medical supplies, and a deck of playing cards ... someone else might get there first!

And we're not even talking about running out of gas to get there when your bug-out vehicle is screaming down the road a four miles per hour with every other individual instant refugee.

Colleagues, it's not my intention to urinate in your breakfast cereal, but have you really thought about how you would survive if you were forced to find a place that wasn't really there or to think you could grow old and raise your grandchildren in a three-bedroom, two-bath suburban house?

If you have a self-sufficient homestead now (available water, garden, critters, privacy, security) that you are living in now, I think your chances for pulling through a major and permanent infrastructure collapse are pretty good.

If not, don't you think you should give your situation a bit more thought?

Strenth is in numbers, no matter where you live those without will be coming to take what you have.
Including your neighbors who didn't prepare or who didn't prepare good enough.
But your right it is the safest place to be now if there is a safe place. Just not alone,imo.
I would hope for a community type set up but then good people don't stick together like thugs and criminals do. what to do really. You just described us but I don't feel all that safe either.

 

[ssonb]

The stage we are at right now is like the week before the Redcoats marched into Lexington and Concord ! We have tolerated abuses and intolerable acts just long enuf to set the stage where when a group of Patriotic people finally stand their ground and the PTB determine that they are in worse violation than the antifa Fvkers it will be just like the confrontation at Lexington green IT WILL NOT MATTER WHO FIRES THE FIRST SHOT.

 

[Meerkat]

True. But my chances of long-term survival would be a lot better if we were on our homestead and self-sufficient when the deal goes down. That's why I kick myself for not making my move, say, 10 years ago. If the excrement impacted the air-handler, my chances -- even where I am now -- wouldn't be as good as they could be, because I'm still a n00bie..

At least your doing what you can and have a plan, it is not a safe world and we are running out of places to hide. Hitler first went after the cities,then he went after the rurual and country sides.And they are acting exactly like Hitler now its like they took over his plan book.
Including some of the newer completely unconstitutional laws passed just in last few years and recently.

 

[Rick]

If you are living in a city or even a big town, and if you think that a major infrastructure collapse is imminent, and if you believe that this collapse will be permanent, then you are probably be faced with a choice of either attempting to shelter permanently in place or to bug out. Either way, IMNHO, the chances are better than even that you will die.

Cheerful thought, isn't it?

But think about it. If you shelter in place, sooner or later you will run out of food/water/medicines. Absent the rule of law, you will be forced to (1) beg from others, who probably won't give you doodly-squat; or (2) attempt to take if from someone else by force. Unless you can outnumber the defensive position person by about three to one, you will probably be killed.

If you bug out, you will be leaving the area you're familiar with, leaving much of your supplies behind and trying to survive while competing against other people who are already where you will be, who undoubtedly know the place better than you and are near their own supplies, e.g., farmers who aren't interested in sharing or sitting back and let you walk in and take their food; indeed, they will probably see you coming before you see them and you will probably be killed.

"But wait!" you might say. "I have my AR and my Ka-bar and loads of ammunition and I know woodcraft and can live off dead squirrels and dried hazelnuts!" Uhhh... no. Even if you are the one-tenth of one percent of the bugger-outers who could actually live off the land for an extended period of time (and no, I do not mean a weekend hunting trip with a cell phone and Google Maps to the nearest Starbucks), there are going to be a bazillion other panicky people who, having driven off every deer, elk and bunny-rabbit to northern Saskatchewan, will shoot everything that moves, including you (and your family).

Remember, if you bug out and don't have a place to go, you're not a prepper or a survivalist. You're a refugee. And even if you do have a hidey-hole complete with a working well, garden, pen full of animals, medical supplies, and a deck of playing cards ... someone else might get there first!

And we're not even talking about running out of gas to get there when your bug-out vehicle is screaming down the road a four miles per hour with every other individual instant refugee.

Colleagues, it's not my intention to urinate in your breakfast cereal, but have you really thought about how you would survive if you were forced to find a place that wasn't really there or to think you could grow old and raise your grandchildren in a three-bedroom, two-bath suburban house?

If you have a self-sufficient homestead now (available water, garden, critters, privacy, security) that you are living in now, I think your chances for pulling through a major and permanent infrastructure collapse are pretty good.

If not, don't you think you should give your situation a bit more thought?

You make many good points but plenty of thought has been given to these issues.

..in order to prep you have to have resources.

These resources cost money.
For many of us making that money has to occur in a city due to our specialized skills for which there is no or little call in the countryside.

There is a solution to this quandary.

Build a small tribe.. you and a few very close friends pre-position lots of food, firearms and firearms supplies, clothes, meds, gear at the location of the one friend that lives in the boonies on a large property.

That individual commits to at least part time agriculture of some kind to supplement rations.

Once if SHTF, now u are in a bigger group and can defend the property against (almost) all comers (there will never be perfect absence of risk)

Plus once the big dying has stopped after perhaps a year or so, with most folks starved ..your clan with the extra workers can now work the property full time agriculture PLUS there were likely be plenty of fallow land nearby whose inhabitants are deceased.

 

[Meerkat]

You make many good points but plenty of thought has been given to these issues.

..in order to prep you have to have resources.

These resources cost money.
For many of us making that money has to occur in a city due to our specialized skills for which there is no or little call in the countryside.

There is a solution to this quandary.

Build a small tribe.. you and a few very close friends pre-position lots of food, firearms and firearms supplies, clothes, meds, gear at the location of the one friend that lives in the boonies on a large property.

That individual commits to at least part time agriculture of some kind to supplement rations.

Once if SHTF, now u are in a bigger group and can defend the property against (almost) all comers (there will never be perfect absence of risk)

Plus once the big dying has stopped after perhaps a year or so, with most folks starved ..your clan with the extra workers can now work the property full time agriculture PLUS there were likely be plenty of fallow land nearby whose inhabitants are deceased.

Thats what I said but its been said before and nobody wants to live in that type of community, we all want to have our cake and eat it too,lol. We like our privacy and control.so it won't happen in most places.But glad we agre on the solution,but we stand alone on it.

 

[Rick]

Thats what I said but its been said before and nobody wants to live in that type of community, we all want to have our cake and eat it too,lol. We like our privacy and control.so it won't happen in most places.But glad we agre on the solution,but we stand alone on it.

Its been implements with a few groups.

I know of no fewer than 4 retreats that are organized this way.
These were people that met consistently at the harder Carbine courses and developed trust from it.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

The stage we are at right now is like the week before the Redcoats marched into Lexington and Concord ! We have tolerated abuses and intolerable acts just long enuf to set the stage where when a group of Patriotic people finally stand their ground and the PTB determine that they are in worse violation than the antifa Fvkers it will be just like the confrontation at Lexington green IT WILL NOT MATTER WHO FIRES THE FIRST SHOT.

"at some point our generation of American men will have to own that this is happening on *our* watch."

"this growing frustration could form the inspiration for a counter social movement, outside the realm and control of politics."

From a piece I read this morning.

 

[Meerkat]

While we palce all our hope and security in one man or a few leaders saving us from the bad guys lets not forget tohave a plan B in case it fails 'again'.
I have hinted ot a few neighbors about what we should do if shtf.They are silent as church mice.So I quickly dropped the subject before it turns on me and rumor spreads I'm some kind of militia organizer or whatever BS they come up with.
So imo if you want a community of like minded people who just want to survive don't look for it at home, do like Jesus did and form it elsewhere then find a mutual like minded group to find community.

 

[Meerkat]

Its been implements with a few groups.

I know of no fewer than 4 retreats that are organized this way.
These were people that met consistently at the harder Carbine courses and developed trust from it.

My goodness we do think alike,only you haave the ability and I don't.Age is determinign factor with me now.I hope your successful and pray for you and your group to overcome at least you doing somethin besides 'takinga knee'.

 

[Meerkat]

"at some point our generation of American men will have to own that this is happening on *our* watch."

"this growing frustration could form the inspiration for a counter social movement, outside the realm and control of politics."

From a piece I read this morning.

Well they best get busy pronto! But its still good news some are waking up,

 

[ssonb]

The charges have already been placed and the fuse is just Lying there. The politicians are proving more every day that they are not concerned with what the deplorable people have to say we have never done anything in their finite memory to change or effect their greed and corruption ... I think they see this time is their last grasp to collect as much ill gotten goods as they can collect then retreat and hide and hope to reappear after the dust settles.

 

[Rick]

Well they best get busy pronto! But its still good news some are waking up,

Here is a review of a example organization common to some of the better retreats.

1)The head of household living at the retreat is called "the principal".

This is not related to school, but to military speak of the senior civilian in a location.

His job is to maintain the retreat in good condition and provide enough berthing space for everyone with all their families.
(since it will be SHTF and not vacation when people come.. doing this via shed space, garage space or even tentage is acceptable, you are looking to provide a livable space not the lap of luxury)
To maintain , monitor and protect from vermin, the members pre postioned food supply and the clothing supply, the sundries supply, etc
To engage is some non trivial form of agriculture on site.
To maintain inventory
To provide at least some temporary alternate form of electrical generation and to store the spare fuel and rotate it as needed, to keep it fresh.

This is no small job, requires a greater degree of personal money invested and this is why he is a "primus inter pares"

2)The most well trained at the art of violence, is called the "Sergeant-at-Arms". Usually this is an ex-military man.
Pre-SHTF his responsibility is to train the fire team and develop any site specific tactical SOPs as far as they are distinct from applicable military SOPs.
In my experience most SaA will standardize, loadouts, etc along common light infantry lines.
During SHTF he assumes tactical Control of the Riflemen that the retreat is capable of fielding during extingencies.

3) The Armorer maintains the arms room and its contents. It is his responsibility to maintain an armorers tool kit and spare parts, keep it pre positioned at the retreat and be able to, as a minimum, fix all common malfunctions experienced by the tactical rifles, that the retreat is standardized on.
Most retreats are standardized on AR, but a minority are on AK.. I know of a couple of retreats that were standardized on FN FAL or PTR91 (and other G3 clones). But these days ARs are the most common.

4) Communications Chief: Expert with Radios, maintains the radios for the group. programs the channels and creates the call signs list and any code-speak.. also may provide IT support to group members.

5) Medic: this can be any level of medical expertise the group may get. From EMT, over paramedic , Nurse to actual medical doctor. Whichever you can get.. this is often a hard skill to fill.

6) Senior Gardener/ Agriculturist (this is often the Principals wife or the principal himself). Duties are self explanatory.

Other skills sets such as plumber, carpenter etc are of course desirable... but as a minimum positions 1-6 ought to be filled. Some positions can be filled by the same individual.
And not all retreats will have all positions filled.
I currently fill 2 out of these positions at my location.. but if someone more competent comes along I will gladly give either, or both of them, up.
Its not about Ego but about being counted when and where it matters.

 

[Meerkat]

Here is a review of a example organization common to some of the better retreats.

1)The head of household living at the retreat is called "the principal".

This is not related to school, but to military speak of the senior civilian in a location.

His job is to maintain the retreat in good condition and provide enough berthing space for everyone with all their families.
(since it will be SHTF and not vacation when people come.. doing this via shed space, garage space or even tentage is acceptable, you are looking to provide a livable space not the lap of luxury)
To maintain , monitor and protect from vermin, the members pre postioned food supply and the clothing supply, the sundries supply, etc
To engage is some non trivial form of agriculture on site.
To maintain inventory
To provide at least some temporary alternate form of electrical generation and to store the spare fuel and rotate it as needed, to keep it fresh.

This is no small job, requires a greater degree of personal money invested and this is why he is a "primus inter pares"

2)The most well trained at the art of violence, is called the "Sergeant-at-Arms". Usually this is an ex-military man.
Pre-SHTF his responsibility is to train the fire team and develop any site specific tactical SOPs as far as they are distinct from applicable military SOPs. In my experience most SaA will standardize, loadouts, etc along common light infantry lines.
During SHTF he assumes tactical Control of the Riflemen that the retreat is capable of fielding during extingencies.

3) The Armorer maintains the arms room and its contents. It is his responsibility to maintain an armorers tool kit and spare parts, keep it pre positioned at the retreat and be able to, as a minimum, fix all common malfunctions experienced by the tactical rifles, that the retreat is standardized on.
Most retreats are standardized on AR, but a minority are on AK.. I know of a couple of retreats that were standardized on FN FAL or PTR91 (and other G3 clones). But these days ARs are the most common.

4) Communications Chief: Expert with Radios, maintains the radios for the group. programs the channels and creates the call signs list and any code-speak.. also may provide IT support to group members.

5) Medic: this can be any level of medical expertise the group may get. From EMT, over paramedic , Nurse to actual medical doctor. Whichever you can get.. this is often a hard skill to fill.

6) Senior Gardener/ Agriculturist (this is often the Principals wife or the principal himself). Duties are self explanatory.

Other skills sets such as plumber, carpenter etc are of course desirable... but as a minimum positions 1-6 ought to be filled. Some positions can be filled by the same individual.
And not all retreats will have all positions filled.
I currently fill 2 out of these positions at my location.. but if someone more competent comes along I will gladly give either, or both of them, up.
Its not about Ego but about being counted when and where it matters.

Sounds good to me.Not asking specifics but is locaion safe and not somehing some politiician may want to sell off to highrest bidder? Liek a large body of water or river.Or put up a solar farm withe millions o panels or turbines?
I'm glad for you and those you have with you,just keep up with the news.

 

[iknownothing]

I know what I wrote before on this thread but the wife and I talked some more. We came to the conclusion that if we had to leave the home and travel, that we would be looking for a group of people that could use 2 old people that are willing to pull their weight in exchange for place to lay our head, little food to eat and maybe help with protection. We aren't afraid of work just not as fast as we used to be. We hope to arrive at a place not empty handed. Well, we'll see what happens.

 

[Meerkat]

I know what I wrote before on this thread but the wife and I talked some more. We came to the conclusion that if we had to leave the home and travel, that we would be looking for a group of people that could use 2 old people that are willing to pull their weight in exchange for place to lay our head, little food to eat and maybe help with protection. We aren't afraid of work just not as fast as we used to be. We hope to arrive at a place not empty handed. Well, we'll see what happens.

How is Chattanooga doing these day? Alot of my family isn't far from there at all in N.Ga.. Any violence or looting?

 

[iknownothing]

How is Chattanooga doing these day? Alot of my family isn't far from there at all in N.Ga.. Any violence or looting?

None at the moment. They had some protests etc but no violence. They arrested 2 guys with guns. One of the guys had an ar15 broke down in his backpack with loaded magazines. The other guy was on top of the building he lived in drinking pretty good and waving a rifle around plus he had a couple of pistols.

 

[Grimm]

Me too… for some time now. I’ve been making medicines on a scale I never imagined was necessary. Last night I made what will be 40oz of elderberry tincture, kills most viruses outright and prevents the rest from replicating… just one medicine of many.

View attachment 44020

Recipe, Please.
**bats eyelashes**

 

[Rick]

I know what I wrote before on this thread but the wife and I talked some more. We came to the conclusion that if we had to leave the home and travel, that we would be looking for a group of people that could use 2 old people that are willing to pull their weight in exchange for place to lay our head, little food to eat and maybe help with protection. We aren't afraid of work just not as fast as we used to be. We hope to arrive at a place not empty handed. Well, we'll see what happens.

Even if folks are chronologically challenged there are still many important things they can do.
Supervise children for example and one job that often gets overlooked is nighttime watch.

Any retreat needs one person awake at all times.
Thats easy in the day when people are out doing work..

But at night when no work is happening at least one person needs to be up and alert or a bunch of bad guys can sneak in and cut everyone's throat at nite to take over the retreat.
This will be personnel intensive and anyone who still has their senses on (for night time duty especially hearing) can do this job.. even if they cannot do hard physical labor.

 

[kd4ulw]

When you see what’s happening now, four years into a possible eight year presidency, what will the radical left do if Trump wins again. Plus, nothing I see says the anarchy going on now would stop if a dem wins in November.

 

[Rick]

When you see what’s happening now, four years into a possible eight year presidency, what will the radical left do if Trump wins again. Plus, nothing I see says the anarchy going on now would stop if a dem wins in November.

It will be perfect if the left goes super crazy while "we" hold most of the security apparatus.
thousands of arrests all over the country.. maybe even RICO act gets applied to donors to antifa.. that could take out some serious enemies of the republic by criminalizing them (lots of billionaire hollywood producers assorted leftist celebrities will see their communist agitation well curtailed once they are convicted of funding terrorism.)
(Which is what the left would love to do to us... in the UK gov't declares any patriotic organization terrorist... and then can (and does!) jail any member of that group for years..its the lefts playbook.. but it can work both ways)

 

[RidgeRunner]

Well said, and I would add "morally" to your list.

 

[Peanut]

Recipe, Please.
**bats eyelashes**

Just a standard 1:2, weight to volume tincture. Lots of instructions on the net, even some videos.

 

[Grimm]

Just a standard 1:2, weight to volume tincture. Lots of instructions on the net, even some videos.

Is your tincture vodka based?

 

[Peanut]

Yes... vodka. Elderberry blooms have an extremely high water content so I use 100 proof. I try to keep the alcohol content above 45%. Gauges to read alcohol content are cheap and sold on amzon.

Standard tinctures are made with vodka unless stated otherwise... brandy, vinegar or other additives are spelled out in tincture books. I just added one to my list in the library.

 

[Grimm]

Yes... vodka. Elderberry blooms have an extremely high water content so I use 100 proof. I try to keep the alcohol content above 45%. Gauges to read alcohol content are cheap and sold on amzon.

Standard tinctures are made with vodka unless stated otherwise... brandy, vinegar or other additives are spelled out in tincture books. I just added one to my list in the library.

Thank you!
I keep vodka on hand for disinfectant but this makes grabbing a few extra bottle worth it. The people at Costco think I'm a lush already...!

 

[viking]

I tell people, that are willing to listen, that my wife and I have been at this prepping thing long enough that we have seen life cycles come and go, some of the freeze dried and dehydrated foods we got a few years back are now double the price, when we first bought a little amount of silver coins, it was $5 an ounce now it's around $18 an ounce and gold was priced at about $250 when we were telling people it was going to really go up, it's now at $1774+ and probably be breaking over $2000 soon. Thing is, people that thought we were crazy for prepping years ago are going to pay a steep price to even come close, now days, to what some of us did years ago. This doesn't mean that they can't do it, it's just going to be harder.

 

[Sam]

Sums it up nicely for some of us.
Sam