Time for some new equipment soon?

[UrbanHunter]

New inverter is on hold for the moment, went in a slightly different direction for the time being.

Sometime in the next thirty or so days I should no longer have battery woes! I have 32) 280 AH 3.2 volt cells coming. This an entire battery bank replacement. Taking out 650ish AH of old OLD AGM type cells and replacing them with 580 AH of NEW LifePO4 cells. These should out last me by a few years. They have a 8000 cycle lifespan, which is pretty much 22 years at once a day charging. My excysting bank had a usable 165 AH of storage roughly using the top 25-30%, the new cells will essentially double that using the middle 60% of their capacity which will give me about 335AH of usable power. The downside is the new cells need to be in a moderately controlled climate. So I've got that little (HUGE) technical difficulty to overcome. I'm thinking maybe dig a tiny basement under the power building by going right through the floor. Anyone else have any ideas? I could move them inside the house but I'd really rather not for a number of reasons. The main one being serious lack of space and the fire danger. Another option is to simply put them in an insulated box with thermostat controlled heaters. But that's not going to help any with summers heat plus it uses valuable power to run the heat...

I would ask @Neb, He has put in more basements in existing buildings than anyone I know.

Yeah the most work is usually the best option! In this case the building is only 6x8 feet. So it's likely in order to keep the building supported the "basement" could probably only go 4x6 feet which would be problematic. The 3500 pounds of batteries sitting at the rear of the building also make for a problem not even mentioning the buried cabling going to the house.

Far as hand digging this ground goes that will be a job X 3. Red clay with plenty of rock.

I need to study on this some. If I can move some of the equipment around and free up say two feet of wiring / cabling to the house then I could conceivably lift the building 18 inches or so IF the floor can handle the weight unsupported is a MAJOR question.
Of course there is another option I could just go ahead and disconnect everything and run the generator nonstop for a week or so. Then I could conceivably just empty the building and move it dig and build the basement and put the building back.

Suddenly I'm thinking the last option may well be the best option. What do you guys think? Of course it's also the most expensive option of an already expensive project with a very limited budget...

I do really like the idea of the batteries and power equipment all being underground. Nice cool constant temps should be perfect to extend the life of the equipment. I wonder if or how much that would protect against a solar flare or EMP type pulse?

Hmmm Just had another insane thought. Maybe just sink an ICB tote or even two one on top of the other under the building and fill them with water pour concrete around them and then pump the water out after it sets up. It would be kind of small but it would surely stop ground water from being an issue.

Thoughts?

Have you thought about building a new "power house" with a larger basement? Possible something with a brick or concrete lined basement and a stick structure above it? If your stick building were made to include a hoist it would make raising an lowering heavy stuff easier. I would incorporate some sort of french drain and sump pump to keep everything dry. I guess if the walls of the basement were wrapped with some sort of grounded metal sheet and then having a grounded metal skin between the floor of the "power house" and the basement, then the whole basement would almost be a Faraday cage.

 

[zoomzoom]

How heavy are these batteries? Can you hoist them in and out of the ground easily if you did put them underground?
How deep would you go and how warm would it keep them?
How about just putting a small heater in the existing building? My shop is over 4000 cu/ft. When it's 0° outside, I can keep it above freezing using a Mr. Heater Big Buddy on it's LOW setting (4000 BTU). Connect a pair of 20# propane tanks and it'll run for a long, long time.

 

[Neb]

I would ask @Neb, He has put in more basements in existing buildings than anyone I know.

Have you thought about building a new "power house" with a larger basement? Possible something with a brick or concrete lined basement and a stick structure above it? If your stick building were made to include a hoist it would make raising an lowering heavy stuff easier. I would incorporate some sort of french drain and sump pump to keep everything dry. I guess if the walls of the basement were wrapped with some sort of grounded metal sheet and then having a grounded metal skin between the floor of the "power house" and the basement, then the whole basement would almost be a Faraday cage.

Re: digging

Harbor Freight

Jackhammer- 70 lbs version to cut through clay and shale.

Electric winch - to lift buckets out of the hole.

My brother had a skip hoist to move shingles to a roof on a ladder. The winch made it easy.

One person in the hole another top side emptying buckets.

Plan to dump dirt down hill.

Plan french drains to keep it dry.

Ben

 

[Biggkidd]

The cells weigh 12lbs each so no problem to move around. It's amazing a roughly 400lbs battery bank is going to replace a roughly 3500lbs battery bank and supply double the usable amp hours. The building is 6x8, tiny old and uninsulated. It was a take away from building a 16x20 for a customer many MANY years ago. I'd rather not have to heat the building and summer temps are also a possible issue as temps over 90 are also hard on LifePO4 cells.

Considering the cost and lowered sweat equity I'm liking the ICB tote idea at the moment over traditional cider block. I really like the fact it would be incased in plastic so NO water issues and concrete so no structural issues. If the cells can be stacked on their sides and would take up less than a foot by eighteen inches by four foot tall. If not then 18"x46"x10"

 

[Biggkidd]

Ben french drains really aren't a viable option as its over 250 feet to daylight at that level.

 

[Biggkidd]

Just got off the phone with the folks at the 18650 battery store. They said I can stack the cells on their sides in use so that will save even more space. I was 99% sure they could be stacked up that way but I wanted confirmation and now I have it. Looks like the cells should be here in a couple or three weeks. I just want them here before the balloon goes up! The sooner the better as much as I'm having to run the genny these days to make up for my dying bank!

 

[Tim Horton]

A lot of local advertisements on tv and such for ...Generac.. brand whole house generator systems.. That would be a nice system, but I think they are expensive for the convenience of ...seamless operation.. But that seems what many people want and are willing to pay for..

Thought... I'm pretty much electrical illiterate.. However.. If a person were building a new home, that would require a XXL size generator to power the whole house, could they specify certain critical circuits be wired to the generator bypass switch and only need a less costly XL size generator ??

 

[Biggkidd]

A lot of local advertisements on tv and such for ...Generac.. brand whole house generator systems.. That would be a nice system, but I think they are expensive for the convenience of ...seamless operation.. But that seems what many people want and are willing to pay for..

Thought... I'm pretty much electrical illiterate.. However.. If a person were building a new home, that would require a XXL size generator to power the whole house, could they specify certain critical circuits be wired to the generator bypass switch and only need a less costly XL size generator ??

Absolutely

 

[Neb]

A lot of local advertisements on tv and such for ...Generac.. brand whole house generator systems.. That would be a nice system, but I think they are expensive for the convenience of ...seamless operation.. But that seems what many people want and are willing to pay for..

Thought... I'm pretty much electrical illiterate.. However.. If a person were building a new home, that would require a XXL size generator to power the whole house, could they specify certain critical circuits be wired to the generator bypass switch and only need a less costly XL size generator ??

Like @Biggkidd posted yes.

Re: Generac

They are Standby generators. They intended to just fill the gap when other power is not available. They are not an alternative energy source.

@Mountain trapper ,

What type of generator do you use?

Ben

 

[Mountain trapper]

Like @Biggkidd posted yes.

Re: Generac

They are Standby generators. They intended to just fill the gap when other power is not available. They are not an alternative energy source.

@Mountain trapper ,

What type of generator do you use?

Ben

I've got a 12kw Perkins diesel for backup power, a 12kw Winco propane for the well pump, a 6.5kw Honda for the barn, an 8.7kw generator for use around the property and my Miller welder has a 12kw generator.
In my past life I bought thousands of generators for the job. I started buying Generacs to replace our current Hondas. Just beware that only the Generac XP models were made in the US, at least they were the last time I bought some. I think their whole house models are made in the US too.

 

[Biggkidd]

All 32 new cells should be here by the end of next week. Provided they don't screw up the address again. I can not wait this should be the end of my daily generator runs.