Abortion Bills

[user 7704]

One thing that has happened since Trump took office is that peoplenhate him so much they are saying what they have kept under wraps for years.

Now 3 states have openly said that killing a baby is okay even if it is born alive.

Whether you are pro-life or choice , how can a full term baby who is on its way to being born,, be a choice? At that stage, give it up for adoption. There are many couples that would love a baby that you didn't think was perfect enough for you.

Maybe the hair is the wrong color or the eyes. Yes, that seems far fetched, but who sets the standard?

Being the mom of a Special, I cannot imagine......,,

 

[user 5745]

Ludicrous scare-mongering.

https://useyouroutsidevoice.co/2019/01/25/no-new-york-state-is-not-killing-full-term-babies-now/

It's ludicrous to think that a person in the late stages of pregnancy would request a termination, and that a medical professional would agree to it, on the grounds of eye-colour or similar grounds. It's not far-fetched, it's nasty, hard-hearted and mean-spirited.

 

[DrHenley]

From the actual bill in NY:

38 § 7. The section heading, opening paragraph and subdivision 1 of 39 section 125.05 of the penal law are amended to read as follows: Homicide[, abortion] and related offenses; [definitions of terms] DEFINITION. The following [definitions are] DEFINITION IS applicable to this article: [1.] "Person," when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a human being who has been born and is alive.
​

This amendment decriminalizes abortions up until complete birth has taken place.

Meanwhile Virginia is trying to One-Up New Y0rk with the "Repeal Act" which would repeal any restrictions on third trimester abortions.

Apparently that removal of restrictions would extend to after a complete birth. Here is an interview with the Governor of Virginia, Ralph Northam:



The "discussion" he refers to is a discussion about whether to terminate - after a complete birth. In other words, he is saying INFANTICIDE should be a decision made by the physician and mother without any interference from the government.

 

[user 7704]

Ludicrous scare-mongering.

https://useyouroutsidevoice.co/2019/01/25/no-new-york-state-is-not-killing-full-term-babies-now/

It's ludicrous to think that a person in the late stages of pregnancy would request a termination, and that a medical professional would agree to it, on the grounds of eye-colour or similar grounds. It's not far-fetched, it's nasty, hard-hearted and mean-spirited.

The are already doing gene selection to get the blue eyes and hair color, so no, it's not far fetched.

Just look how far we have dropped in the last few years. They already give you the option to abort if they "guess" something may be wrong with your child. No guarantees, just abort and try again.

 

[Psalm7]

Anyone that supports or participate in abortion is guilty of Child murder .

 

[user 7704]

The VA Governor even said after a child was fully birthed. If you haven't seen the video, do so.

The Bill died in committee, but 3 people voted yay.

Of course he said in case of problem with baby. What would be the standard to decide the degree of severity of a child's situation? I'm guessing that would change daily.

This is really showing the big divide in pro-choice people who are fence sitters. May come back to bite them come election day.

 

[user 7704]

Anyone that supports or participate in abortion is guilty of Child murder .

I don't see how anyone can deny that a child on its way out of the birth canal is not a full person.

 

[Mountain trapper]

When it comes to liberals I think it should be ok to abort them at any age. After all, they think it's acceptable to kill a baby at birth, so what's the difference?
Sick disgusting people.

 

[user 7704]

When it comes to liberals I think it should be ok to abort them at any age. After all, they think it's acceptable to kill a baby at birth, so what's the difference?
Sick disgusting people.

They are aborting their voting base.

 

[user 5745]

Anyone that supports or participate in abortion is guilty of Child murder .

How many pro-birthers come across to a child student of a friend: "American 'christians' don't want people to have abortions coz they want the kids to grow and get shot up in school so they can pray for them".

 

[user 7704]

How many pro-birthers come across to a child student of a friend: "American 'christians' don't want people to have abortions coz they want the kids to grow and get shot up in school so they can pray for them".

Someone posted that today and then posted Sandy Hook.

 

[user 5745]

Someone posted that today and then posted Sandy Hook.

It was said by a 12 year old pupil of a friend of mine on 18-Jan this year. Others have probably picked it up.

 

[user 5745]

The VA Governor even said after a child was fully birthed. If you haven't seen the video, do so.

The Bill died in committee, but 3 people voted yay.

Of course he said in case of problem with baby. What would be the standard to decide the degree of severity of a child's situation? I'm guessing that would change daily.

This is really showing the big divide in pro-choice people who are fence sitters. May come back to bite them come election day.

Just looking at https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virgin...-kathy-tran-third-trimester-today-2019-01-30/:

It quotes Gov. Northam as saying: "When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And it's done in cases where there amy [sic] be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So I think this was really blown out of proportion."

It then reports a tweet from RNC Chairwoman McDaniel: "This is horrific [...] Dem Gov. Ralph Northam, a pediatrician himself, is defending born-alive abortions: 'The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired.'"From this, she seems either to have misunderstood what Gov. Northam said or not to understand what 'resuscitated' means. Her statement is not about killing a live child but about the decision of whether to rescusitate a baby that has died during or shortly after birth.

I think it likely that the decision as to what constituted non-viable (or similar) would be made by experienced and thoughful medical professionals. And again, it's hard to believe that anyone would request, approve or undertake a late-pregnancy abortion lightly or easily.

 

[user 7704]

It was said by a 12 year old pupil of a friend of mine on 18-Jan this year. Others have probably picked it up.

Haha . That's funny.

 

[user 5745]

Haha . That's funny.

How so? I think it's a tragic state of affairs.

 

[user 7704]

How so? I think it's a tragic state of affairs.

That people on Twitter stole it from your 12 year old's friend

 

[user 5745]

That people on Twitter stole it from your 12 year old's friend

Um, no, you've got the wrong end of the stick. An adult friend of mine teaches the child who said it, and mentioned it on facebook. Resonant things spread like wildfire online. It's also possible, of course, that the child repeated something that they'd read online before 18-Jan, but heigh-ho, the idea still struck a chord ☺

 

[Psalm7]

Anyone that supports or participate in abortion is guilty of Child murder .

 

[Psalm7]

How many pro-birthers come across to a child student of a friend: "American 'christians' don't want people to have abortions coz they want the kids to grow and get shot up in school so they can pray for them".

Someone commits a crime they are the one that is guilty . Murdering someone who hasn't committed any crime and is helpless not even old enough to feed themselves is absolutely evil .
6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust now a 100 times that have been kill by systematic abortion just in the U.S . Your stupid analogy of someone being killed in a school is like saying you are glad the nazi's killed 6 million Jews because a Palestinian may kill Them anyway .

 

[DrHenley]

What's so disturbing about the NY bill is when you start changing the definition of a "person" that is protected by law for political purposes, now you are doing the same thing as, say slave owners deciding that a black person is not a "person" or Germans deciding that a Jew is not a "person."

If you can pick and choose who you want to be a "person" then anything goes.

Here again is what the NY law says:

"Person," when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a human being who has been born and is alive.

Which is only one small step removed from saying

"Person," when referring to the victim of a homicide, means an Aryan human being who has been born and is alive.

 

[KateMTx]

One thing that has happened since Trump took office is that peoplenhate him so much they are saying what they have kept under wraps for years.

Now 3 states have openly said that killing a baby is okay even if it is born alive.

Whether you are pro-life or choice , how can a full term baby who is on its way to being born,, be a choice? At that stage, give it up for adoption. There are many couples that would love a baby that you didn't think was perfect enough for you.

Maybe the hair is the wrong color or the eyes. Yes, that seems far fetched, but who sets the standard?

Being the mom of a Special, I cannot imagine......,,

It makes me very sad and very angry as well. Sex-selective abortions have long been a thing and disability-selective abortions as well. Then we have laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender, age, disability, etc., etc. It does not make sense to me; if the baby is old enough that it could be born they have zero excuse. I have two special sisters so I'm with you Robin.

 

[TexasFreedom]

All of this is simply showing the lie that leftists have said for decades. "Pro-Choice", "A woman should decide what happens with her body." Lies.

When a baby is born, is outside the mother's body and is alive and crying and breathing. If that's not a 'person', nothing is. But the left is perfectly happy calling that just another abortion. It does not meet any of their past objections.

It won't be long before 'old' people and disabled people meet the same criteria. Scary.

And if anyone wants to argue this is not the position of the democrats, tell me one national-level democrat who has condemned this NY law. Is there a single one? Two? If that many, out of thousands?

 

[user 5745]

Someone commits a crime they are the one that is guilty . Murdering someone who hasn't committed any crime and is helpless not even old enough to feed themselves is absolutely evil .
6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust now a 100 times that have been kill by systematic abortion just in the U.S . Your stupid analogy of someone being killed in a school is like saying you are glad the nazi's killed 6 million Jews because a Palestinian may kill Them anyway .

I think you may have misunderstood what the child said.

1) It's not an analogy (or mine). It's an expression of how the reasoning and actions of many pro-birthers come across to someone uninvolved in the situation.

2) 'like saying you are glad the nazi's killed 6 million Jews because a Palestinian may kill Them anyway': When you write 'you are glad', do you mean me personally or a person in general? If the former then you've misunderstood what the child said. If the latter then please clarify your reasoning, as I'm not sure how the impression expressed by the child would equate to a pro-birther feeling like this.

 

[Psalm7]

I think you may have misunderstood what the child said.

1) It's not an analogy (or mine). It's an expression of how the reasoning and actions of many pro-birthers come across to someone uninvolved in the situation.

2) 'like saying you are glad the nazi's killed 6 million Jews because a Palestinian may kill Them anyway': When you write 'you are glad', do you mean me personally or a person in general? If the former then you've misunderstood what the child said. If the latter then please clarify your reasoning, as I'm not sure how the impression expressed by the child would equate to a pro-birther feeling like this.

So you realize there is no defense for killing Children now you want to play word games to deflect .
Its simple enough first quit blaming some Kid take responsibility for your post .
You say someone shouldn't be pro life for defenseless Children and pro firearm ownership at the same time because a criminal may shoot someone in a school . That is nothing more than stupidity .

 

[user 5745]

So you realize there is no defense for killing Children now you want to play word games to deflect .
Its simple enough first quit blaming some Kid take responsibility for your post .
You say someone shouldn't be pro life for defenseless Children and pro firearm ownership at the same time because a criminal may shoot someone in a school . That is nothing more than stupidity .

Absolutely incorrect. I don't think that there is no defence for aborting pregnancies (whether you want to call them foetuses or children or whatever). Quite the contrary: I think that there are reasons for it and that it is acceptable under certain circumstances. Nor did I say that a person shouldn't be both pro-birth (I don't use the phrase pro-life) and pro-firearm ownership because another person might shoot people at a school - you're right, that is stupid, which is why I didn't say it and don't think it. The upshot: if you can't or won't take the time to work out what I've actually said then please don't respond at all.

I do take responsibility for the post - I reported what this kid said about how many pro-birthers come across. I happen to agree that, quite often, that is the overall effect that they make. Happy now?

Let's try again. The point of the kid's utterance is that pro-birthers often seem hypocritical because while they give every possible **** about children being born, they can seem not to give any possible **** about the kid once it's outside the womb unless it has been shot to death, at which point they get to demonstrate their piety by praying a lot. It's making a hyperbolic point about the bizarre ways in which some/many pro-birthers manifest their religious convictions.

 

[user 7704]

Did you see the pics of the VA Governor dressed in blackface while in school.

If that was a Republican Gov., they would be calling for resignation.

I love Karma.

 

[user 5745]

Did you see the pics of the VA Governor dressed in blackface while in school.

If that was a Republican Gov., they would be calling for resignation.

I love Karma.

I haven't, nor have I been able to find it after a bit of an online search. Although I'm not sure how it relates to the current abortion discussion, I think that blackface is generally foul and, depending on the circumstances and his age at the time (did he do this consciously and deliberately as an older teenager or was he 'done up' as a young child by adults or... ?), perhaps it should be a resignation matter.

 

[Psalm7]

Absolutely incorrect. I don't think that there is no defence for aborting pregnancies (whether you want to call them foetuses or children or whatever). Quite the contrary: I think that there are reasons for it and that it is acceptable under certain circumstances. Nor did I say that a person shouldn't be both pro-birth (I don't use the phrase pro-life) and pro-firearm ownership because another person might shoot people at a school - you're right, that is stupid, which is why I didn't say it and don't think it. The upshot: if you can't or won't take the time to work out what I've actually said then please don't respond at all.

I do take responsibility for the post - I reported what this kid said about how many pro-birthers come across. I happen to agree that, quite often, that is the overall effect that they make. Happy now?

Let's try again. The point of the kid's utterance is that pro-birthers often seem hypocritical because while they give every possible **** about children being born, they can seem not to give any possible **** about the kid once it's outside the womb unless it has been shot to death, at which point they get to demonstrate their piety by praying a lot. It's making a hyperbolic point about the bizarre ways in which some/many pro-birthers manifest their religious convictions.

So this kid you quote and your self seem to know what Others think or how they feel .
Every Person I have discussed crime with cares what happens . We generally agree on what could have prevented such crimes as mass shootings or terrorist attacks , armed robberies . But that has nothing to do with a group of People gathering in a clinic and torturing a infant to death and dismembering it . Anyone that can support that behavior or support politicians that promote such behavior is 100 % guilty of killing the most vulnerable People on Earth .

 

[user 7704]

I haven't, nor have I been able to find it after a bit of an online search. Although I'm not sure how it relates to the current abortion discussion, I think that blackface is generally foul and, depending on the circumstances and his age at the time (did he do this consciously and deliberately as an older teenager or was he 'done up' as a young child by adults or... ?), perhaps it should be a resignation matter.

 

[user 5745]

So this kid you quote and your self seem to know what Others think or how they feel .
Every Person I have discussed crime with cares what happens . We generally agree on what could have prevented such crimes as mass shootings or terrorist attacks , armed robberies . But that has nothing to do with a group of People gathering in a clinic and torturing a infant to death and dismembering it . Anyone that can support that behavior or support politicians that promote such behavior is 100 % guilty of killing the most vulnerable People on Earth .

Ah, there's one of the barriers to understanding: we don't know for certain how such pro-birthers think/feel; we can, however, just like everyone else, form and express an impression and current interpretation/understanding based on their actions and words. I'm fairly sure that you and I have gone over this before in a thread on a different topic The way the pro-birthers in question behave and speak suggests things about their interior lives. If they behaved differently then the impression would be different.

I don't consider an embryo or foetus up to around 20 or so weeks as an infant/person. My only issue with abortions during the first (especially) and second trimesters are that there are far too many of them due to inadequate sex education and inadequate contraceptive availability and understanding. In the third trimester, and especially when a foetus is sufficiently developed to be able to survive outside the womb, there are usually much tighter restrictions in place re circumstances of foetal non-viability and serious risk to the parent, which is absolutely right and proper and subject to constant review and discussion. THat said, I'm not 'pro-abortion': contraception first, with abortion if contraception has failed and/or the pregnancy is not wanted for some reason. Abortion should be minimised and every birth wanted rather than forced.

In general, I think that people with wombs should be in charge of what goes on with them, with professional medical and mental health advice and support. I'd like to see a procedure in place whereby sperm-producers who want to claim some kind of special say in the matter simply because they squeezed out a spoonful of tail-lashers should first have to prove that they have never once masturbated in their entire lives, as even a single spunky sock would suggest a remarkable lack of care for their supposedly sacred sperm

Edit: The penultimate sentence of the second paragraph should read, 'contraception first, with abortion if contraception has failed and/or the pregnancy is not viable for some acceptable reason.' My apologies for not being very clear.