Any thoughts about "FALL-BACK" positions......???

[Tacitus]

No fall back. I live and die where I am. It is what it is. I'm good with that.

If I can afford it, I will find a better place where I will live and die. But, for now, it is here.

 

[Flight]

My fall back position is probably falling on my err ahh umm hands? Lol

 

[Spikedriver]

My "fall back" is my family's land 60 miles away...I have a plethora of routes to choose from, and four roads which access the road to said land. Realistically, bad weather or a complete government travel ban are the only things that would stop me from getting there in about 90 minutes...

It is not stocked up, per se, but is equipped with both wild and cultivated fruit and veggies, storage for over 40,000 bushels of corn, and space for stock animals could be improvised within several days. There is running water for livestock, however it is not safe for people and cannot be made so due to ag chemical contaminants. I'm not sure if boiling would make it safe for limited short term use but I know nitrate levels are unsafe. Limited amounts of water could possibly be hand pumped from the well casing if a suitable pump could be aquired. There is no livestock on site, but small game is abundant for the short term and some small fish could be caught.

I haven't looked into hardening the site. It's 35 miles to any significant population centers so I'm not concerned with invaders for now. There is a small selection of weapons on site, which are mostly hunting style guns. I did stockpile a fair amount of ammunition for these, I only need more buckshot and slugs. Vehicle access is difficult other than a 120 yard lane with an unobstructed view from the house and no cover for intruders. Some off road vehicles could possibly access the place through farm fields. The is a dredge ditch Creek which prevents access from the south.

I don't for see a total collapse in society, I believe our socialists in charge of DC (yes, I mean both parties) will step in and "keep order" before things get that bad. I see the farm as more of a temporary retreat from troubles that may plague populated areas...

 

[Rick]

So I been thinking about this thread a bit and I feel I have something more to add.

Your "fallback position" can also be simply a plan to retake your old position.
Now folks are gonna say.. " this makes no sense, since u lost your homestead to overwheleming force, or why else would u have bugged out of your retreat.. Why should a retake attempt be any different"?

And that would be a legit logical point.

But hear me out:

NightVision....+ coming back at night....

-have a proper set of NVG such as PVS14 and know how to fight with them (zeroed IR laser on your rifle for aiming).

Come back at night, the combination of Nighttime confusion of the enemy, debilitation via being woken up by shooting.. , with fighting on ground u are familiar with and they aren't.. may give even a very small group of only 1-2 fighters an overwhelming advantage over even large groups..
Especially when said large group is enjoying the fruits of their taking your retreat, ( drinking, eatin lots so both makes them sleepy)... coming back a couple hours before first light should work well.

Even in the event they also possess NVGs.. they have to be put on, turned on, adjusted... Not an easy thing to do when your in deepest slumber maybe even a bit drunk...and someone is quickly going room to room shooting all the forms on the floor and in the beds..

Now you can "what if" this to death and paint METT-TC situations were this wouldn't work .... but I am convinced that fortune favors the bold and in many situations it would work quite well..

 

[The Lazy L]

Smaller group retaking a defensive position held by a larger group. Surprise and having a intimate knowledge of the layout would be the key (IMHO).

 

[Sourdough]

.... but I am convinced that fortune favors the bold and in many situations it would work quite well..

True........plus being somewhat desperate is a stimulating motivator.

I have been watching this thread to see where it would go, rather then attempt to guide it in a direction. I almost jumped in many times, as it was clear that many (maybe most) were thinking that a fall'back (position/location) was exactly the same thing as a "Bug'out" location.

I think of a fall'back as a temporary short term (maybe a few days or a week a most) option when it appears that you can not hold the current position. A safe place that you can assess your options, which might be to fall'back further and abandon the position you just lost, hold where you currently are and observe the position just lost, or develop a plan for counter attack and recapture you lost position.

I have lived for the last 20 years, lived fairly deep in the Alaska wilderness, in a seven million acre National Forest, in a small cabin that I could easily abandon, because I have many pre-stocked fall'back cabins and camps and caches. My plan has long been that in the event of a massive and catastrophic SHTF event, should the first person show up asking for food or anything, I who give what was needed. Then assume they would be back, or others would possible show up, till at some point someone would figure they would prefer to live here and me gone or buried.

At that point I would fall'back to the next fully stocked cabin, and likely burn this cabin and all buildings to the ground.
https://survivalforum.survivalmagaz...36-could-you-would-you-burn-your-retreat-down

https://mysurvivalforum.com/threads/building-small-wilderness-survival-dwellings.6121/#post-41104

https://survivalforum.survivalmagaz...16538-the-leatherman-this-is-a-wonderful-read

 

[hiwall]

A plan to re-take your own place is great and practical in some cases. It might just involve waiting several days for the marauders to move on again.
But your place is not going to be the same. You would likely receive a lot of damage before your exit and you would have no idea what the occupying force would do to your place while you are gone. They could even poison the water supply. All windows would likely be shot out after any kind of a fire-fight. There would also be internal damage to the place from countless bullets traveling through (unless you have a hardened building). Also if you force the marauders to leave I could easily see them burning the place as they go.
I would likely just put up a losing fight rather than exit my place.

 

[Rick]

So I been thinking about this thread a bit and I feel I have something more to add.

Your "fallback position" can also be simply a plan to retake your old position.
Now folks are gonna say.. " this makes no sense, since u lost your homestead to overwheleming force, or why else would u have bugged out of your retreat.. Why should a retake attempt be any different"?

And that would be a legit logical point.

But hear me out:

NightVision....+ coming back at night....

-have a proper set of NVG such as PVS14 and know how to fight with them (zeroed IR laser on your rifle for aiming).

Come back at night, the combination of Nighttime confusion of the enemy, debilitation via being woken up by shooting.. , with fighting on ground u are familiar with and they aren't.. may give even a very small group of only 1-2 fighters an overwhelming advantage over even large groups..
Especially when said large group is enjoying the fruits of their taking your retreat, ( drinking, eatin lots so both makes them sleepy)... coming back a couple hours before first light should work well.

Even in the event they also possess NVGs.. they have to be put on, turned on, adjusted... Not an easy thing to do when your in deepest slumber maybe even a bit drunk...and someone is quickly going room to room shooting all the forms on the floor and in the beds..

Now you can "what if" this to death and paint METT-TC situations were this wouldn't work .... but I am convinced that fortune favors the bold and in many situations it would work quite well..

I am going to do the bad netiquette of quoting my own post to ad something more:

Remember that National Geographic Special "Blackout"

While being flawed there is apoint were they are huddled in the hidden bunker while others are swarming their property up top.

At 1:05:47

In order to survive and protect themselves the man could have gone uptop at night and in terrain familiar to him massacred the occupiers.
Many ethical questions of course were a problem here as well.. the occupiers include women and children.. what to do?

Its easier when we picture we are only up against Mutant Communist homosexual zombie Cannibals...

 

[Sourdough]

I would likely just put up a losing fight rather than exit my place.

Well........if you have no pre selected and pre stocked fall'back position, with twenty or sixty cached firearms and fuel, yes you might just as well die defending what is not defendable.

This is the whole point of having fall'back positions, they also allow you to go to your "Mutual Assistance Support Groups" (MASG) and recruit help, and they will help knowing they are next to be over-run.

 

[Sourdough]

Many ethical questions of course were a problem here as well.. the occupiers include women and children.. what to do?

The goal is "Survival"..........everyone wants to survive. "Ethic and Rules of Engagement" are nice but one should never forget that either your loved ones survive and repopulate.......or their loved ones survive and they repopulate. There is no trophy for second place, and the survivor will record their version of what happened for history.
As I like to say, "There is a test coming; However unlike in school, the grading for this test is slightly different. F does not mean failure and the need to attend summer school.................F=fatal.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

I think fall back positions fall into better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it category. I can think of scenarios where I could never have enough of them. Just comes down to what I can afford and priorities. I have several well scouted and known fall back positions I dont own.

 

[The Lazy L]

The goal is "Survival"...........

Well...the short term goal could be survival. Long term goal would be thriving.

 

[Sourdough]

Well...the short term goal could be survival. Long term goal would be thriving.

He who "Doth Not" meet the short term goal..........Need not be unduly concerned about "Thriving".

 

[hiwall]

I see countless problems if things are that bad.
To go to your 'fall-back' position, you would have to know when to leave your home. Leaving during a fire-fight would be problematic at best and more likely impossible. Obviously you would likely have the bulk of your supplies at your home. So when you have scouts out and they see an army of fifty guys approaching, you just grab what you can carry and leave your home with no fight? And this army then occupies your home doing who-knows-what but obviously eating like kings using your supplies and ripping the walls apart looking for hidden items (that is what I would do). The occupiers would obviously be butchering your livestock while they are there for even more/better food for them. So why take on incredible risk trying to evict those whom you ran from? Wait for them to leave and come back to see what remains at best.

Or maybe where you are living is not your prime location. Instead it has few supplies and leaving it is no issue for you. If so then why try to take it back?

I am a good shooter but I am not Rambo. I know my limitations. Anyone coming to take my place will suffer losses. Or not because they could make a lucky shot and take me out before I even know anyone is approaching. A good sniper with no morals can be devastating to any defensive group. I could leave my home and go to a temporary fall-back position but I see little point in doing so. There are many vacant/summer/vacation homes in my general area. In the dire conditions we are discussing here I could easily make my way to one of those. But do that and leave all my supplies at my house for others? I think not. Or hide the bulk of my supplies around the countryside and keep a minimum amount at my place. Fine I could do that but I built this place up the way I wanted it for a reason. I am not going to run away at the drop of a hat.
No I will fight to my dying breath. I am completely capable of taking larger targets out at 600+ yards. I have a good field-of-fire around my place because of fire danger all brush and trees are well back ( any man-cover is 200+ yards away at closest).
If things are as bad as we are discussing there will be countless surprises placed around.
But honestly I really doubt the conditions we are discussing will ever come to pass. But I do agree that thinking about it now and making some plans for just in case is fine.

 

[The Lazy L]

...occupies your home doing who-knows-what but obviously eating like kings using your supplies...

There is is the option of poisoning the supplies you leave behind. Mark them so if you return you know which is which. Terrible shame if innocents found the food and ate it unknowingly.

 

[Sourdough]

But honestly I really doubt the conditions we are discussing will ever come to pass.

Roughly 160,000,000 humans said the same thing in 1939...........they all died.........horrible deaths. (That is one hundred and sixty Million, equal to half the current population of America)

But tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) got the hell'outa the way. And lived to go home to start over.

 

[Spikedriver]

People also forget that once you start any kind of combat you better have some kind if medic with you and some supplies. Lack of antibiotics will be a real problem in SHTF, and any serious wound (and many minor ones) are likely to be fatal without proper care. Herbal medicine can only do so much...

The truth is it's probably best to either stand and fight and die, or just move on. Hardening your site is still useful - your opponent may decide it's too risky and leave for easier pickings...

 

[Tacitus]

Roughly 160,000,000 humans said the same thing in 1939...........they all died.........horrible deaths. (That is one hundred and sixty Million, equal to half the current population of America)

But tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) got the hell'outa the way. And lived to go home to start over.

Precious metals help with that kind of escape.

 

[Sourdough]

Precious metals help with that kind of escape.

True.......and the single best reason to have some precious metals, or diamonds, etc.. There can be other prudent reasons, but having something to trade in exchange for fairly safe escape from a hell'ish high risk environment, and a portable "Nest-egg" is near the top.

 

[Meerkat]

Roughly 160,000,000 humans said the same thing in 1939...........they all died.........horrible deaths. (That is one hundred and sixty Million, equal to half the current population of America)

But tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) got the hell'outa the way. And lived to go home to start over.

All promised paradise and got hell. Like now only the names and dates have changed.

 

[Sourdough]

..........Deleted.........By original poster.

 

[Sourdough]

All promised paradise and got hell. Like now only the names and dates have changed.

Things are getting "Frisky" at the National "Labor Day" event in France, today.

 

[Meerkat]

Things are getting "Frisky" at the National "Labor Day" event in France, today.

Looks like it is flaring up this week for sure.

 

[lonewolf]

the trouble with any fall back positions in the good times is that all land in Britain is owned by someone and they wont take lightly to me roaming all over it. I have some fall back locations scouted by me but supplying them in advance just isn't possible, they will be used only on a "need to" basis, as I am far out in the English countryside on the edge of a small town which isn't well known apart from locals, this should not be necessary.