Anyone had group of 100+ for more than 10 years?

[lonewolf]

Paul,
I agree, in your situation a small group seems best.
In case you took it that way, I never meant for anyone to think that 100+ is a good number for every group.
In our situation, we know that we've got it covered and we'll be better off together.
Everyone has a different situation and we can only judge what we know.

I think 100+ is good for a later date, after the dust has settled and security and safety isnt such an issue, much like a small village one could have many workshops and maybe get some trades reestablished.
maybe some trading with other groups.
but I think this is something that would come much later, many decades after the event and maybe even several generations down the road.

 

[Dave V]

I think 100+ is good for a later date, after the dust has settled and security and safety isnt such an issue, much like a small village one could have many workshops and maybe get some trades reestablished.
maybe some trading with other groups.
but I think this is something that would come much later, many decades after the event and maybe even several generations down the road.

Paul, now you're talking! Our whole thing is preparation...before, during, and importantly AFTER.

A lot of the training is BEFORE for getting people to the shelter, but we also practice living in the facility...everyone has multiple jobs taking care of the facility and each other. The parking decks are over 200 ft squared and we have 2 levels completely outfitted and with 40' x 8' x 9'6" shipping containers… 25 on one level and 50 on the next level all with ventilation ductwork, and furnished and provisioned off site before they were brought in over multiple years. We also have 2 rows (that’s Fifty) of 20' x 8' x 9'6" containers outfitted with shelves for supplies. Plus, we may or may not still have access to the grocery basement during the event. So we’re not worried about “during” the event. And again, NONE of this would have been possible without the financial and material support from our shopping center owner and his family. Without their initial and continuing support, a MUCH smaller group might be using my grocery store basement instead of our mega facility.

AFTER the event., we don’t want to take another 30 years to gather the talent from survivors who might have made it…we want to have them all in-house. We can rebuild a society with our own people. We also start with the more than 5 year’s worth of resources in-house we already have stored (assuming there's plenty left) and when we do venture out, we will have experts without having to look for them.
Our 127 Members currently include:

• MANY outdoorsmen/women who can Hunt, Trap, and Fish.
• A Medicinal Chemist who is an expert in finding wild plants for Food and Medicine
• A water/waste treatment manager who knows all aspects of purification and treatment
• Several Farmers, a Bee keeper, and several experts in jerking and other food preservation.
• A Carpenter, a General Contractor, a Concrete and Brick plant owner, and an Aborist.
• An Army medic, a Gynecologist , a Dentist, a Hygienist, a Surgeon, 2 GPs, and 2 Pharmacists
• A martial arts Sensei, a US Marine with MCMAP expertise, 2 US Army experts in Combatives
• A Textile Engineer who knows how to make fabric, sew it, and dye it.
• A Metallurgist who can blacksmith pretty much anything
• An Auto Mechanic who can fix, drive, or fly pretty much anything we come across
• A Shoe and Clothing Repair shop owner…the whole family knows their stuff
• MANY teachers at all levels, all subjects from pre-K through college
• Engineers… an Electrical Engineer, a Mechanical Engineer, a Materials Engineer
• A Plumber
• A small engine repair guy (mowers, chain saws etc.)
• At least a half dozen Computer Programmers (Handy as long as we keep power.
  I left lots of people out, but you can see that TOGETHER, we’ll be able to do a lot during and after.

 

[wheresclair]

Dave,
I can not keep with you up today! That is incredible! This shopping center man is very good and generous to your group! If my maths are correct you have maybe more than 80,000 ft/sq to live in and also maybe that basement right?? That is HUGE, how can you heat it in the cold time?? Now I see how you can do 100+ people in there. My place is very big, but very empty. We do not have all those places for living and keeping things. We have blankets on the floor and stacks of food cans and barrels of petrol. Now I have to go back to the first page and read again - I did not understand how big you were saying. And you grow plants down there also?! I must see someday!

Also how can you do the training with the covid-19 ??

 

[Dave V]

This shopping center man is very good and generous to your group!
If my maths are correct you have maybe more than 80,000 ft/sq to live in
That is HUGE, how can you heat it in the cold time??
My place is very big, but very empty.
Also how can you do the training with the covid-19 ??

Clair,
Sorry I haven’t answered your questions…here you go:
Sorry this post will be way too much info for some!

The shopping center owner has been more than generous and very understanding as we continue to expand on our original ideas. I had known him for a couple of years and almost immediately gave him my crazy proposition. He knew the right and trusted people to get the technical advice and they all jumped on board immediately. I think because he was bankrolling the bulk of the expenses, we were able to bring in really talented members early on. Later, when we realized we needed an operating and maintenance budget, we added a joining fee and yearly maintenance fee. Even later, we made the joining fee payable over time which allowed for some members we might not have otherwise been able to recruit. (And the owner has in some cases, personally paid some member’s joining fee to remove that obstacle.) In addition, we entrust around 35% of our funds to our traders who are part of the 14 full time residents who live in the facility. They handle our investments while they do their “day jobs” from our facility. The investment returns on our money have been phenomenal this year and this will allow us to update some of our infrastructure that sometimes gets put off. Members can update their containers/residences with new furniture etc. on one weekend per month…they just need to arrange it in advance.

Yes, the parking deck sounds huge when you calculate that many square feet, but I walked it from the grocery/infirmary entrance all the way across to the far wall and it was over 100 paces. My pace is 3 feet so the square footage is probably bigger than you estimated.

We have several big fans feeding the main ducts on each level and these feed the ductwork to the shipping containers/residences. They all have strong airflow, but there are no thermostats inside the containers/residences. They can control the vent louver on each vent. The average temperature stays between 65 and 70 °F (15.5 to 21 °C) year round and slightly larger range (60 to 75 °F) on the level above it because it’s closer to the surface. We can heat (but not cool) if we need it, but it’s so energy depleting we don’t and we’ve never needed to so far.

You say your place is very empty…no one starts out with everything they want/need. It’s a long process. You’ve only been at it for 8 years and only recently completed your facility…we’ve had 31 years. You’ll get there!

Lastly, how are we dealing with Covid-19?
Firstly we have a 10 bed isolation container and a 16 bed infirmary container each with totally separate air systems including MERV-16 level filtration, humidity control, and UV in the ducts. One of our programmers did go to a funeral in early October and we were able to quarantine him for two weeks in ISO. He said he never felt bad but didn’t miss a beat at work since ISO has several computers and he was able to “remote into” his regular workstation to get his work done. His only complaint was that he missed his big monitors. Since then, we’ve had several members come stay in ISO to quarantine from their families but fortunately we’ve not had anyone show symptoms. We did our summer camp off-site with outdoor activities only and we do the same with monthly training. Everybody, especially the kids, were pretty bummed not to be able to enter the facility, but hopefully this coming summer camp will run as normal with everyone occupying their own containers/residences. Mentors are doing a lot of zoom calls with their trainees and teens that do the hydroponics do visit the facility daily, but they use an emergency stairwell and go directly to their chores. Come to think of it, there are a number of exceptions, but we are careful and avoid the exposure of our 14 permanent residents. They control all entry and know what they're doing. We’re ready for this to be over.

 

[wheresclair]

Not too long for me! Thank you!
Yes, we have 12 years –not only 8 and almost all years spend doing pumping and moving dirt and building. I feel better because who knows what we can do in 31 years because now after building we can do organizing and plan many ideas! We do not have the fees for our sinkhole but maybe one day we will have to do it. If I want to ever get lots of moneys help with my sinkhole I will need to meet someone who has interest in mine and also has shopping center or such. Our sinkhole is the big secret but too many people know it. We now have a big spool of the wire and we are going to give us the electricity soon. We will hook the wire up to house and then maybe we can do computer and use phone for hotspot for Internet. Problem is Internet all day will not be cheap so we need to get internet at house and run more the wire for Internet so computer guy can stay there more time.

We need the fans because the air does not feel very good at the bottom after some time down there. Maybe air is too old. I have not got the temperature average but it feels cold all the time even in the summer. I will get the temperature measurement for a week and see. We have no heat or cool for changing the temperature. So we need the money for heat and the rail for the stairs because sometimes dangerous if falling and my knees sometimes hurt if I go down many times in one day.

I think your ISO sounds like a comfortable place with beds and the clean air and the computer. Do you have cooler with the beer also?!

It would not be good to do the quarantine in our place because if you die someone may not find the body for a week and then no one will ever return if a person is died down there. And if we have computer guy down there he will not want to have the Covid-19 near him.
My son is biochemist and works with the vaccine. He knows very much about the spreading numbers and also important to be very careful in my country for next months because new kind may spread in your eyes because less of this virus is needed to infect. Yes, I am very ready for this to stop and go back to the regular day!

 

[Dave V]

That's scary...do you wear swim goggles when you go out? Seriously? No one in our group has died from it, but plenty of people in our county have...folks I knew. Maybe enough people will get the vaccine before the new strain makes much difference in the US. The jump in cases and deaths in the UK is crazy.

 

[Dave V]

P.S. Has your son got a vaccination yet?

 

[wheresclair]

P.S. Has your son got a vaccination yet?

Yes, my son did already get the vaccination over week ago. He is very glad but also required where he work. They all wear the safety glasses with the side shields but he say if I wear regular glasses it would be less exposure if I walk through the virus.

 

[Proud Prepper]

That's scary...do you wear swim goggles when you go out? Seriously? No one in our group has died from it, but plenty of people in our county have...folks I knew. Maybe enough people will get the vaccine before the new strain makes much difference in the US. The jump in cases and deaths in the UK is crazy.

Foolish

 

[Proud Prepper]

Yes, my son did already get the vaccination over week ago. He is very glad but also required where he work. They all wear the safety glasses with the side shields but he say if I wear regular glasses it would be less exposure if I walk through the virus.

Foolish

 

[wheresclair]

?? What is your meaning? My son is very good biochemist and is not stupid.

 

[Dave V]

Fool's

Clair,
Don't take it personally, Rellgar has other things on his mind.
I'm sure he didn't mean insult to you or your son.

Let's quit talking about Covid-19 and get back to your sinkhole.

How do you get air down there now and what's your long term plan when the surface is completely closed in? Do you have any ductwork in place?

 

[Proud Prepper]

?? What is your meaning? My son is very good biochemist and is not stupid.

No insult intended. I would not be glad to take an untested and unnecessary shot of mRNA. He chose to take it, its not required for his work. You can be the most intelligent person on earth and still do foolish things. I should have said foolish, not fools.

They should wear safety goggles and shields, those do no harm. Even more important is taking enough vitamin D, C and zinc. If one is exposed to viruses on a daily basis, take hydroxychloriquin or Ivermectin as a prophylactic. Use Chlorine Dioxide Solution for cleaning surfaces and proper dosages internally to cure a person infected. All of these are 100% effective and safe.

 

[wheresclair]

Clair,
Don't take it personally, Rellgar has other things on his mind.
I'm sure he didn't mean insult to you or your son.

Let's quit talking about Covid-19 and get back to your sinkhole.

How do you get air down there now and what's your long term plan when the surface is completely closed in? Do you have any ductwork in place?

Dave, I still have upset but it is not good to insult my family. I will try to understand others but still not like it.
::::Just saw Rellgar comment, OK.

We have 18 the tubes - maybe 0.5m each to later time hook big fans to them. Engineer required as I would not have thinked of this. (spell?) Tubes can linked at top for in and out air flow. Getting all the same fans and getting the electricity is the problem but we are thinking on it. All tubes will stay so can reach the way placed. We know we must have many places for catching the air on the outside. The problem is air to outside because there are many government helicopter and drone that catch heat to see. To hide the heat is problem because we have field.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

?? What is your meaning? My son is very good biochemist and is not stupid.

Claire on this subject people have strong varying opinions. There are more than a few doctors and even a few who were involved in the creation of the vaccine who are saying negative things about it. So please don’t take it personally. Keep in mind this vaccine has not been tested even CLOSE to what other vaccines are.

 

[wheresclair]

Claire on this subject people have strong varying opinions. There are more than a few doctors and even a few who were involved in the creation of the vaccine who are saying negative things about it. So please don’t take it personally. Keep in mind this vaccine has not been tested even CLOSE to what other vaccines are.

I paste your comments in email to my son to see if he know about these doctors you say about?
This is his email back. His English is very good!

Yes, my English is OK.
As my Dad has told you, I am a biochemist, and I work with many types of vaccines.
I am writing about your statement
"There are more than a few doctors and even a few who were involved in the creation of the vaccine who are saying negative things about it."
I am sure you "read it somewhere" but consider the source.
ANY political website, Twitter, Facebook etc. is likely to be someone's opinion or made up.

I talk to researchers all over the world. We are a relatively small group and if ANYONE remotely involved with the ACTUAL research for the Covid-19 vaccine had made ANY negative public statement, we would ALL have heard about it by now.
There are many "Doctors" in the the US and they can "SAY" whatever they want, but they may or may not have a clue what they are talking about.
Listen to the people at your CDC and vaccine researchers - the US has some of the finest scientists in the world.
If you want factual information about mRNA vaccines you can read these:

Layman's version of how Messenger RNA vaccines work
https://news.mit.edu/2020/rna-vaccines-explained-covid-19-1211
Scientific version of Coronavirus vaccine development: from SARS and MERS to COVID-19
https://jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12929-020-00695-2
The very cool thing is that the development of the mRNA vaccine for Covid-19 has made it so in the future,
we may develop vaccines to new viruses in a MUCH shorter time!
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1
I get emails into my junk box daily that include forwarded testimonials from decorated soldiers with medals of valour or pilots or medics etc etc.
- anything to give them credibility so I'll fall for the story. It's ALWAYS made up.
Please don't repeat or retweet spectacular information about the Covid-19 vaccine without first checking it out on:
COVID-19 Mythbusters – World Health Organization

It's "fun" to ***** about the inefficiencies of our governments etc.
but ***** about something else besides the vaccine and help us kick this virus back to hell !

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

I paste your comments in email to my son to see if he know about these doctors you say about?
This is his email back. His English is very good!

Yes, my English is OK.
As my Dad has told you, I am a biochemist, and I work with many types of vaccines.
I am writing about your statement
"There are more than a few doctors and even a few who were involved in the creation of the vaccine who are saying negative things about it."
I am sure you "read it somewhere" but consider the source.
ANY political website, Twitter, Facebook etc. is likely to be someone's opinion or made up.

I talk to researchers all over the world. We are a relatively small group and if ANYONE remotely involved with the ACTUAL research for the Covid-19 vaccine had made ANY negative public statement, we would ALL have heard about it by now.
There are many "Doctors" in the the US and they can "SAY" whatever they want, but they may or may not have a clue what they are talking about.
Listen to the people at your CDC and vaccine researchers - the US has some of the finest scientists in the world.
If you want factual information about mRNA vaccines you can read these:

Layman's version of how Messenger RNA vaccines work
https://news.mit.edu/2020/rna-vaccines-explained-covid-19-1211
Scientific version of Coronavirus vaccine development: from SARS and MERS to COVID-19
https://jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12929-020-00695-2
The very cool thing is that the development of the mRNA vaccine for Covid-19 has made it so in the future,
we may develop vaccines to new viruses in a MUCH shorter time!
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1
I get emails into my junk box daily that include forwarded testimonials from decorated soldiers with medals of valour or pilots or medics etc etc.
- anything to give them credibility so I'll fall for the story. It's ALWAYS made up.
Please don't repeat or retweet spectacular information about the Covid-19 vaccine without first checking it out on:
COVID-19 Mythbusters – World Health Organization

It's "fun" to ***** about the inefficiencies of our governments etc.
but ***** about something else besides the vaccine and help us kick this virus back to hell !

Sorry Claire. Not buying it. You are free to believe what you like. It is your body that will suffer, not mine.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

FOR EVERYONE ELSE, A SNIPPET FROM GARY’S RESEARCH FROM A DOCTOR. NOT SOMEONE MAKING THEIR WEALTH FROM VACCINES.


“DREADFULLY NEEDED MEDICAL ACTION IS NEEDED

The words “life-endangering” are around a dozen times mentioned in the document. BUT, not one time is the fact that 44 from 44,000 tested persons mention that they actually had life-endangering reactions----they just used the words.<Dreadfully needed medical attention> in the protocol. What was said of the shown test results was, that the only thing which could be recorded was, they could only show that in 3 cases were they able to prevent a serious case of sickness with the Corona virus. THIS MEANS THAT IN 7000 VACCINATED PERSONS, ONLY A SINGLE PERSON HAD ANY PROFIT FROM THE EFFECTIVENESS.

In addition, 84 % showed more or less bad reactions to the Vaccine. On top of that, again up to another 84% of the test persons showed undesired reactions to the Vaccine. Especially the younger persons and those who took the second dose reported from “heavy impacts on their daily routine”.”

 

[Proud Prepper]

I paste your comments in email to my son to see if he know about these doctors you say about?
This is his email back. His English is very good!

Yes, my English is OK.
As my Dad has told you, I am a biochemist, and I work with many types of vaccines.
I am writing about your statement
"There are more than a few doctors and even a few who were involved in the creation of the vaccine who are saying negative things about it."
I am sure you "read it somewhere" but consider the source.
ANY political website, Twitter, Facebook etc. is likely to be someone's opinion or made up.

I talk to researchers all over the world. We are a relatively small group and if ANYONE remotely involved with the ACTUAL research for the Covid-19 vaccine had made ANY negative public statement, we would ALL have heard about it by now.
There are many "Doctors" in the the US and they can "SAY" whatever they want, but they may or may not have a clue what they are talking about.
Listen to the people at your CDC and vaccine researchers - the US has some of the finest scientists in the world.
If you want factual information about mRNA vaccines you can read these:

Layman's version of how Messenger RNA vaccines work
https://news.mit.edu/2020/rna-vaccines-explained-covid-19-1211
Scientific version of Coronavirus vaccine development: from SARS and MERS to COVID-19
https://jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12929-020-00695-2
The very cool thing is that the development of the mRNA vaccine for Covid-19 has made it so in the future,
we may develop vaccines to new viruses in a MUCH shorter time!
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1
I get emails into my junk box daily that include forwarded testimonials from decorated soldiers with medals of valour or pilots or medics etc etc.
- anything to give them credibility so I'll fall for the story. It's ALWAYS made up.
Please don't repeat or retweet spectacular information about the Covid-19 vaccine without first checking it out on:
COVID-19 Mythbusters – World Health Organization

It's "fun" to ***** about the inefficiencies of our governments etc.
but ***** about something else besides the vaccine and help us kick this virus back to hell !

A vaccine is not needed for a corona virus, a cold virus. It does not prevent anyone from getting covid. Other, safer methods are 99% and 100% effective with no harmful side effects.

 

[Dave V]

Vent heat can be a real problem.

 

[Dave V]

We have 18 the tubes - maybe 0.5m each to later time hook big fans to them. Engineer required as I would not have thinked thought of this. (spell?) Tubes can linked at top for in and out air flow. Getting all the same fans and getting the electricity is the problem but we are thinking on it. All tubes will stay so can reach the way placed. We know we must have many places for catching the air on the outside. The problem is air to outside because there are many government helicopter and drone that catch heat to see. To hide the heat is problem because we have field.

Clair,
Hopefully your tubes are PVC or something you can cut without it crumbling in case you want to create connections or outlets mid-pipe?
Also, maybe having fans at both the top and bottom will help airflow but your engineer will know what can work best for you. Yes getting rid of heat signatures can be a real problem especially with FLIR and Thermal imagers mounted on helicopters and drones.. They can be a real pain when you don't want to be seen. Our solution is to make it look like someone else.
There's a dry cleaner/laundromat on the far end of the shopping center and we just pipe our heat to come out near their place so we appear the same as the background temperature. (We have also developed means to have drones take a nose dive if they get too bothersome - darn real estate companies!)

 

[Mountain trapper]

The CDC is the LAST group of numbnuts that I would trust. This is the same group of Leftist idiots that want to ban guns in the name of "safety".

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

The CDC is the LAST group of numbnuts that I would trust. This is the same group of Leftist idiots that want to ban guns in the name of "safety".

The CDC has been caught in numerous lies and distorted information that they have eventually corrected this past year. I did not use to understand how Hitler, Stalin and even Mao managed to convince so many people into believing their LIES. Now I understand.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Back to the original topic, I dont even know 100 people. And far fewer that I actually like.

 

[Dave V]

Clair,
Let's keep talking about your air tubes.

 

[wheresclair]

Clair,
Hopefully your tubes are PVC or something you can cut without it crumbling in case you want to create connections or outlets mid-pipe?
Also, maybe having fans at both the top and bottom will help airflow but your engineer will know what can work best for you. Yes getting rid of heat signatures can be a real problem especially with FLIR and Thermal imagers mounted on helicopters and drones.. They can be a real pain when you don't want to be seen. Our solution is to make it look like someone else.
There's a dry cleaner/laundromat on the far end of the shopping center and we just pipe our heat to come out near their place so we appear the same as the background temperature. (We have also developed means to have drones take a nose dive if they get too bothersome - darn real estate companies!)

Dave, sorry I make mistake of giving my emotion. My son is very good and comment make me feel bad.
I do not know if they have the FLIR or the thermal (or difference) but we do not have your advantage. Maybe we get someone to build shopping center on top of our sinkhole and all problem will be gone, yes? (Joking!) But pipe idea may be good if we put deep and to far place. I do not know but maybe our lake on top of sinkhole blocks heat but not sure. How can I know this? Also edges. Yes, pipes are hard plastic but we have them for free so I do not have info on type. I have new for Christmas a battery reciprocating saw - absolutely amazing!! I think I can make the hole in any material so no problem with holes for pipe! Tell me how you can stop the drones??
Yes, I do not like the politics - this is much better, thank you!

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

OK, your point has been made - you don't trust anyone in the government except Trump and you'll never get the vaccine. GOT IT.

You do know most organizations have politicians as their figureheads and that they don't know jack...they're the ones saying the stupid stuff, not the dedicated scientists.

I think Clair thought his son was being insulted so he rightly defended him, but he probably shouldn't have tried to provide anyone here with info he hoped would be thoughtfully considered. Apparently it wasn't.

Please move on to a thread that's there to talk about politics etc. and
we'll try to go back to talking about prepping here at this thread.

You feel better or do you want to beat me now??

 

[Dave V]

You feel better or do you want to beat me now??

No, I just want to go back to talking about the Clair's sinkhole and how he constructed his facility inside it and possible solutions to problems...many of which you may have good ideas on? Read him from the beginning, it's a really novel idea.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

No, I just want to go back to talking about the Clair's sinkhole and how he constructed his facility inside it and possible solutions to problems...many of which you may have good ideas on? Read him from the beginning, it's a really novel idea.

That can’t be. If YOU wanted to continue with your conversation on the construction YOU had the choice to do so. Yet, YOU took the time to bash me and every other Prepper for not wanting to take the China vaccine.

 

[Dave V]

No, I just want to go back to talking about the Clair's sinkhole and how he constructed his facility inside it and possible solutions to problems...many of which you may have good ideas on? Read him from the beginning, it's a really novel idea.