Bees

[user 7704]

Robin,
Good idea, if he'll bring them over & transfer the frames, all the easier.

You mean not 'outside feeder' but an entrance feeder? Basically you stick it into the opening and a mason jar sits upside down on it? BTW, careful poking holes. You want really small holes. Really small otherwise it leaks everywhere. You can also look into a quail feeder. Uses same mason jar but has a trough around it... put a piece of rope in the trough so the bees don't drown. Works great, and only a couple bucks at TSC. BTW, putting either of these inside the hive, don't leave them too many days. Otherwise the bees might start building comb from your inner cover (talk to your mentor, he'll give you other options or timing thoughts).

BTW, Tractor Supply (TSC) has a horrible beekeeping supply area. You just don't know enough yet to realize it! I'd recommend avoiding them for now, not sure their quality is more than a one-time-use product. I like Mann Lake, but there are other good sources.

What's wrong with bees loose inside the vehicle? I do it all the time, I just wear my bee suit when driving... (sounds funny but it is actually true).

Im ust meant if I have a problem and need something immediately, I can run to TSC and get it. Such as smoker, tool hive, etc. The brand they sell, is the brand sold at many other outlets.

I didn't get any of my stuff there, but if I had something break, I would go there.

Yes, my feeder is made for outside the hive, but my mentor said don't because it welcomes robbers. It came with the complete kit. The other hive was purchased separately and didn't have the accessories such as another feeder. I agree the holes are tiny. I saw a video and they quoted the size of the drill bit needed, but I'll just run to TSC and get another one. They gave away a 4 hole feeder the other night at the meeting, but I didn't win.

My son will be with me and I'm afraid he would be kind of scared if one started dive bombing him. He's usually cool about wasps and bees in the pool, but don't know about in the car

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Bee thread a terrific thread. Thanks for posting this stuff guys and gals.

 

[Mountain trapper]

"bee food"???

You really only need a couple of things. Sugar. I mix 1:1 (weight or volume), some areas vary that ratio throughout the year. And pollen substitute, get the better stuff. And you can do something like "bee health" from Mann Lake as an all-around enhancement. But that's about it.

Robin, congrats on getting your girls. Do you have an in-hive frame feeder? Did you get a package or an intact hive? How many frames in the hive? And how many hives? BK is all about the details...

I would be concerned about the source of the bees. If that BK had high losses, they aren't doing something right and it may be the genetics of the bees. I would get bees from a local source, bees that do well in your climate/conditions. Not everyone can be perfect, I'll brag that I've had zero winter losses the past 2 years. But if they're having 40+% losses, that's horrible (and unfortunately the national average).

We got an in frame feeder with the hive for mixing sugar water. What I was calling "bee food" is a pollen substitute that looks and feels like a sticky slab of taffy. It's supposed to go on top of the frames between the two boxes.

 

[TexasFreedom]

AD,
Yup, that's called a 'pollen patty'. Don't put in too much. I'd start with a chunk maybe the size of a brownie (single serving!, maybe 2"x2"). The reason is that if the bees don't munch on it, patties are really bad for attracting small hive beetles (SHB), and they can devastate a colony. If they tear it up, add more. Once natural pollen is available, they will completely ignore it & back to the SHB problem. If they don't start eating it within a couple of weeks, take it out.

For the sugar water, take an empty gallon jug that's been cleaned well. Old OJ jugs work great. It will hold about 5 lbs of sugar & 5 lbs of water. Or you can measure about 8 cups of sugar & put it in then add 8 cups of water. Don't worry about 1:1 ratio by weight vs volume, it's about the same. A 1:1 ratio is easiest. Put it in, shake it up. Every 10 minutes, give it another good shake, flip it over, let the sugar knock loose from the bottom of the gallon jug. It will dissolve without heating. When you get to 2:1 ratios, you do need to heat it to dissolve all the sugar, but don't get it too hot as that chemically changes the sugar molecules. Oh, and note that when you put sugar water in a hive, other bees may want to come steal it. You might need to reduce the entrance size so they can more easily defend it from robbers. And don't let sugar water sit too long, it will go back in a matter of weeks. Many people say give them a quart a day. I've seen one colony suck down a gallon a day, so it varies.

 

[DrHenley]

LOL, after listening to all the stuff you need to do for the bees, the thought popped into my head "How on earth do bees survive in the wild?"

 

[TexasFreedom]

Doc,

You are 100% correct. And it's all our fault. We force bees to split when we want (not them). We put queens with bees that aren't her colony. We move them around the country & make the live where we want them. It all causes stress. When bees live in places of their choice, moving when they want to, their success rate is far greater. And we want gentle, sweet bees.

So when we force all these things, something has to give.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Doc,

You are 100% correct. And it's all our fault. We force bees to split when we want (not them). We put queens with bees that aren't her colony. We move them around the country & make the live where we want them. It all causes stress. When bees live in places of their choice, moving when they want to, their success rate is far greater. And we want gentle, sweet bees.

So when we force all these things, something has to give.

So maybe the problem with the lower population of bees is the bee keepers. I would want a more natural approach to keeping bees.

 

[DrHenley]

That's my thinking Rellgar. I have toyed with the idea of setting up a hive near a stand of tupelo gum on our place in the Delta. When the clover blooms in the food plots, they are covered with bees. Don't know where they are coming from, but they are there somewhere. If I could get them to move into a hive on their own, in their natural habitat, then maybe they won't need all the TLC, which is important because I won't be there most of the time to baby them.

 

[TexasFreedom]

So maybe the problem with the lower population of bees is the bee keepers. I would want a more natural approach to keeping bees.

I thin that's exactly what's happening. But to pollinate crops, bees have to be moved over and over. But I think the bigger deal is that BK want to keep gentle bees. They are so much easier to work, you could work 2 or 3 times the hives if they are gentle. And they want to replace their queen every year to prevent swarming. That means queen production is massively expanded and at $30 a queen, the queen-makers don't have the time or resources to produce the quality queens. Then they compensate by dumping chemicals into the hives to fight the battles the bees aren't winning, and those chemicals cause even more issues.

Doc, go for it! Now putting out an empty hive & getting bees to move in is fairly unlikely, but go buy a couple of colonies to get started. FIRST, join a local bee club and get a mentor. Learn about the bees. But once you've started having bees, it'll be more fun than shooting liberals in a barrel!

 

[DrHenley]

Don't they have Bee Attractants that can lure bees to a hive?

 

[TexasFreedom]

Yes they do. One popular one is called Swarm Commander. It helps to have drawn comb from another hive. And even with the best lures, it's a low percentage that you'll get some to move in. You're more likely to attract wasps. But many of us set traps, usually hoping to at least catch the swarms that escape our own hives!

 

[DrHenley]

The wasps could be a problem there!

 

[user 7704]

Texas, I need help. Do I have to take this frame apart to put in sheeting? The premade frames are stapled together.

I cannot get the wax sheeting into the frame. I've completely uined one wax sheet and am about to scream.

I' trying to gently slide the sheet into the slot, but it's ripping, sticking, etc.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Texas, I need help. Do I have to take this frame apart to put in sheeting? The premade frames are stapled together.

I cannot get the wax sheeting into the frame. I've completely uined one wax sheet and am about to scream.

I' trying to gently slide the sheet into the slot, but it's ripping, sticking, etc.

Thanks for any help.

. If you have not already done so, cut/snap out the prescored “wedge” from the top bar of the frame.
2. Lay the frame on your work surface with the wedge side up.
3. Gently lift a single wax foundation sheet from the pile, making sure to pull off the paper that keeps it separate from the others in the pile.
4. Gently (I keep saying that word, but you will see why when you buy foundation) insert the edge of the foundation in the grooved bottom bar.
a. If you are using crimp wired foundation, make sure the crimp wired end is at the top bar end, and the crimp is facing up, allowing the foundation to rest inside the top bars cut out section where the “wedge” once was.
5. Reinstall the wedge into the top bar, so that the crimped “L” shape of the wires are between the top of the wedge and the top bar, and the wax portion of the top of the foundation is between the side of the wedge and the top bar.
a. See video if confused
6. Gently, tack the wedge to the frame. I use a brad driver instead of a hammer, and place one small brad in the center of the wedge upward into the top bar, and a singe brad on each end of the wedge.

 

[user 7704]

Okay. My problem is, I have two separate types of frames.

One with slit, one without. I fixed one. Seems that there would be an easier way than having to "nail" them on and then rip it off the next time you need a new sheet.

Think I have it now. Each of these has to hold a lot of weight so that part is rather scary. Has the weight ever caused the entire sheet to fall out?

I'll take one of each to my mentor on Sunday and have him tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Robin,
There are lots of types of frames. The ones that have the slit are made for wax foundation. I don't use those. The frames that have a slot down the middle, but no slit, those are made for plastic foundation. Those are easier because you just insert the plastic foundation and nothing to nail back in. And it's stronger. See:
https://www.kelleybees.com/product-instructions/Final_FrameGuide_8x11_OL_062317.pdf

Several types of frames there. They have a good summary to explain each of the many styles. Note that he has his own naming convention, there isn't a uniform naming convention for the many 'newer' styles.

Your experience is why I don't like wax foundation. It's delicate & easily messed up. If you only mess up one, that's great! Watch some youtube videos on how they are assembled. I didn't realize that is what you are starting with. I would have recommended plastic foundation as an easier starting point. Maybe your mentor likes them & would trade you for plastic foundation? Note that there is plastic foundation (with wood frame) and there are plastic frames (whole thing is one big piece of plastic).

Bees first prefer wood over plastic. They prefer wax over plastic. And they prefer making their own comb over anything we provide (but that leads to other more advanced issues, comb going across multiple frames, a real mess not for beginners).

I'm not sure this reply is a help. Other than having an experienced person next to you, watch them, have them watch & correct you, that's the way to do this. Mentor to the help if he's willing/able? Youtube option #2.

 

[user 7704]

Your reply is a great help. I chose wax and wood because that's what the club told me to buy.

I think I have found a way to get the wax in then I just need to nail the frames back together. That seems as though there shuld be a snap on type frame. Nails seems so permanent.

Thank you for all your help. We shall see. Trial and error. Probably lots of errors.

My Super already has the sheets and the seems to be of a different material. Probably plastic. I need to get out th e catalog and check the order number. I just copied the order that the club used for the first Super.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Robin,
The good news is that you aren't going to do this every year with these frames. Once you have the wax installed, the bees draw out the comb. If that's their brood area, you're not going to replace that wax. Maybe in 5 years? With honey supers, you cut off the caps, extract the honey, then put the frames back on the hive. That wax can last a long, long time.

If you want to tell the difference between wax and plastic there are a few ways. Wax will have wires running through it, hold it up to the light. Plastic are usually loose, if you shake the frame you'll hear it rattle. You can also see a couple of spots where the plastic was injected. Wax deforms really easy, plastic doesn't.

Here is a word of encouragement. BK is all about trial and error. People fret too much about getting the 'right thing' the first time. Other than a vented suit, don't worry about it. Try wax foundation, you don't know if you'll like it. Next time try plastic. After that try no foundation. You will not know until you try things. And if you own things that you don't like, no worries. Trust me that you can sell unwanted equipment. Split your hive, put the equipment in the hive you want to keep, and sell off the hive with the things you don't want. Here you can sell a single box hive with 7 or 8 frames for $600. Ka Ching! That will pay for some replacement equipment!

 

[user 7704]

$600 is a good hunk of change. The supers sheets are my h sturdier than the wax, wired sheets I have. The super foundations are more defined. Look more like comb.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Robin,
Touch the structure of the foundation. If it deforms easily, it's wax.

For pricing, ask others in your club what local prices are. Here in central Texas a package is $175, nucs (3 frames) start at $250 to $300. And a deep with 7-8 frames and an established colony runs around $600. I'd be curious to hear what colonies sell for up in TN. Only 3 years ago you could get packages for $100-125 all day long.

And pricing depends on what the buyer wants. I've seen guys easily pay $3k for one queen. Yes, one insect. If you really want those genetics, it's worth it. If someone's priority are gentle bees, they don't want my girls. If someone likes hardy bees that don't need chemicals, my 0% hive failure rate can be attractive and worth more.

 

[user 7704]

Robin,
Touch the structure of the foundation. If it deforms easily, it's wax.

For pricing, ask others in your club what local prices are. Here in central Texas a package is $175, nucs (3 frames) start at $250 to $300. And a deep with 7-8 frames and an established colony runs around $600. I'd be curious to hear what colonies sell for up in TN. Only 3 years ago you could get packages for $100-125 all day long.

And pricing depends on what the buyer wants. I've seen guys easily pay $3k for one queen. Yes, one insect. If you really want those genetics, it's worth it. If someone's priority are gentle bees, they don't want my girls. If someone likes hardy bees that don't need chemicals, my 0% hive failure rate can be attractive and worth more.

I am giving $165 for a 5 frame nuc of Italian.

I'm getting 2 nucs. From 2 different beeks and they are the same price. It would be worth the trip North for you.

My mentor doesn't even wear any protection and hardly gets stung. I have the headgear and gloves, but no suit yet. I' going to wear double sweat suits until I get one.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Then bees by you are a bargain. Unfortunately 'gentle' bees don't fair well in TX. I was just in a friend's beeyard today, nice gentle girls. But they re-queen every year or two (there goes $30, maybe $60 per hive). And sometimes they still get mean and they have to re-queen, and they kill the replacement. But it's proven that gentle bees don't make as much honey and they need too much coddling. Of course, I can't complain about price. I've never paid a penny for a colony, and people give me money instead so I take their bees!

 

[user 7704]

Then bees by you are a bargain. Unfortunately 'gentle' bees don't fair well in TX. I was just in a friend's beeyard today, nice gentle girls. But they re-queen every year or two (there goes $30, maybe $60 per hive). And sometimes they still get mean and they have to re-queen, and they kill the replacement. But it's proven that gentle bees don't make as much honey and they need too much coddling. Of course, I can't complain about price. I've never paid a penny for a colony, and people give me money instead so I take their bees!

Sound good to me.

 

[user 7704]

TF, these are my two frames. I hope you can see the differences in them.

 

[DrHenley]

Texas, did some of your Africanized bees go rogue? LOL

http://kfoxtv.com/news/local/million-killer-bees-threatening-neighborhood-in-far-east-el-paso

 

[TexasFreedom]

hehe...
Nah, El Paso is too dangerous for my girls! I suspect there's just a bit of exaggeration. A "BIG" hive might be 100k bees. If there are 3-5 hives, all maxing out, you're talking half a million max. And 30% aren't home during the work day (gotta go get that nectar!), so maybe 350k?

Yeah, yeah, that's still a whole lotta bees. But I've got that many girls here on the ranch. Just not in my house!

Of course, all I can say is.... SWEET!

 

[user 7704]

I played with working the smoker yesterday. Getting ready for the delivery. It was windy and had a small leaf fire. No biggie.

 

[user 7704]

. If you have not already done so, cut/snap out the prescored “wedge” from the top bar of the frame.
2. Lay the frame on your work surface with the wedge side up.
3. Gently lift a single wax foundation sheet from the pile, making sure to pull off the paper that keeps it separate from the others in the pile.
4. Gently (I keep saying that word, but you will see why when you buy foundation) insert the edge of the foundation in the grooved bottom bar.
a. If you are using crimp wired foundation, make sure the crimp wired end is at the top bar end, and the crimp is facing up, allowing the foundation to rest inside the top bars cut out section where the “wedge” once was.
5. Reinstall the wedge into the top bar, so that the crimped “L” shape of the wires are between the top of the wedge and the top bar, and the wax portion of the top of the foundation is between the side of the wedge and the top bar.
a. See video if confused
6. Gently, tack the wedge to the frame. I use a brad driver instead of a hammer, and place one small brad in the center of the wedge upward into the top bar, and a singe brad on each end of the wedge.

I really like the bobby pin idea

 

[TexasFreedom]

I played with working the smoker yesterday. Getting ready for the delivery. It was windy and had a small leaf fire. No biggie.

Too funny. OK, it's important to keep the fire INSIDE the smoker. I hadn't needed to give that advice before.

But it raises a really good point. There are a whole bunch of things that seem quite simple but are extremely difficult when suited up or dealing with bees. You would be amazed how many people can't get their smoker lit. Try drinking water with your suit on, and bonus points for keeping the fabric not touching your skin because you will get stung. Don't forget your baseball hat to avoid getting stung in the forehead/nose. Try driving with your headgear on. Try taking pictures with your phone with your gloves on. Try manipulating comb that has crossed frames, again not only with your suit, and gloves, and 1000 bees crawling on it. And get done quick. Try getting 500 bees off your headgear, specifically right in front of your face so you can barely see. Without killing them. Try removing frames that are falling apart & propolised in place to other frames & the hive body, fully drawn out with honey or brood.

A key thing to being a good BK is that you stop, look at the whole situation, strategize from the start to finish, and execute the plan addressing unplanned events as they arise. You have to anticipate what arises which is where experience comes in. And that means having the tools and equipment handy to resolve things.

 

[TexasFreedom]

(ssssshhhhhhh)

Don't tell anyone. Trump has contacted all Beekeeping Clubs across Texas. We are moving our africanized colonies to the border. The bees are going to defend our border from illegals. The National Guard guys are only there to protect the hives. If anyone sprays insecticides or wear BK suits, NG can shoot them. Otherwise all illegals will have to go mano a stinger. We'll see how many turn around.

Shhh. After it's done, Trump said we can sue Mexico for how many bees die from stinging the illegals. Then we'll see if they'd rather just pay for the wall!

Hehe... but sshhhh!