Biosphere, the ultimate prepping project

[jontte]

haven't used a plastic shopping bag for ages,use those sturdy ones made of canvas,use bars of soap instead of the liquid stuff..it's kinda what you
decide to do and use,personal choices..

 

[Brent S]

haven't used a plastic shopping bag for ages,use those sturdy ones made of canvas,use bars of soap instead of the liquid stuff..it's kinda what you
decide to do and use,personal choices..

Walmart’s sell the reusable bags for a dollar at the registers usually. At that price I doubt they make any, or much, profit but it’s good to encourage people to try cutting down on waste. It’s honestly got to be tackeled on a governmental scale to really make a big difference, but even as individuals we can all make some difference.

 

[KateMTx]

I think paper bags are a better alternative to plastic because they are biodegradable and come from a sustainable resource (trees). I argue with people who complain about paper being bad for the environment because I grew up surrounded by tree farms and learned about sustainable forestry from a young age. I'm also excited about the new biodegradable plastics they are developing because I love science.
And I do like my modern lifestyle. However, I want to be prepared for TEOTWAWKI and be realistic about the very real possibility that my lifestyle will not be possible and I will have to know other ways to survive.
Regardless, I think each it is the individual's responsibility to make good choices, and the government shouldn't be telling people how to live or what kind of bags to carry their groceries in.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I agree that all of us should do what we can to reduce our waste as much as possible. My wife uses cotton bags when she goes shopping instead of the plastic bags. I don't like seeing plastic bags and bottles thrown around any more than anyone else does, but I don't think that government bans are the way to go. Consumers that care can make a big impact as to what kind of packaging that manufacturers use and what the supermarkets use at the checkout stand.
During the Fall, Winter and spring I burn all of our trash, with the exception of glass and metal. All of my used oil is saved up and goes in the fire when I'm burning brush. During summer everything goes to the landfill. Overall we don't generate nearly as much trash for the landfill as most people do.
I've traveled around the world quite a bit and from what I've seen, overall the US cleaner than most other country's are.

 

[tmttactical]

Before government and the bleeding heart stupid environmentalists got involved, we all used paper bags. Those bags at Walmart are not made from all natural, renewable resources. Want to bet they are a bi-product of a fossil fuel? What happens to them when their handle breaks or a seam opens up? They are discarded into a land fill, just like the plastic bags. Want bio-bags, go back to paper.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Before government and the bleeding heart stupid environmentalists got involved, we all used paper bags. Those bags at Walmart are not made from all natural, renewable resources. Want to bet they are a bi-product of a fossil fuel? What happens to them when their handle breaks or a seam opens up? They are discarded into a land fill, just like the plastic bags. Want bio-bags, go back to paper.

The dirty little secret the enviro nuts don't want to acknowledge is, that there isn't a single product made that doesn't use petroleum products somewhere in the manufacturing process. And of course nothing gets shipped without petroleum.
If I remember correctly, paper bags use a lot of formaldehyde in the manufacturing process. Formaldehyde has been demonized by the tree huggers too. Ever been close to a pulp mill? You can smell them for miles.

 

[jontte]

aaah,the smell from a paper mill,here they use to say ;it's the smell of money

 

[jontte]

and prolly in the future,when some archeologist is digging and they send "our bones and stuff" to the lab,they find "interesting chems" they will
be wondering,what the hell were they doing??
if humans come that far...

 

[lonewolf]

maybe, but the way the human race is going, I doubt very much if there will be any "future", we'll probably breed ourselves out of existence.

 

[Brent S]

Katmx mentioned biodegradable plastics. Hope this can become a viable product before too long. Would help solve a lot of issues. Science could solve most of our issues. Unfortunately greed directs where science is applied mostly.

 

[Petoski]

Cellophane in 100% biodegradable. I'm not sure how eco the manufacturing process is as it uses carbon disulphide. Best solution for an eco shopping bag would be to buy one big woven basket and then balance it on your head like the Africans do. Just need to find a few celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow to start the craze and it would take off

 

[lonewolf]

I prefer cloth shopping bags, can pick them up in a lot of places and not very expensive, I have 6 that are in the back of my car for use at any time.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Katmx mentioned biodegradable plastics. Hope this can become a viable product before too long. Would help solve a lot of issues. Science could solve most of our issues. Unfortunately greed directs where science is applied mostly.

I'm sure that you already know this Brent, but most scientists work for private companies. They develop products that people need, want and will buy. When there's a need for a product someone develop it and market it. The problem here is the majority of people just don't care. They're only interested in convenience and cost. When the cost of biodegradable bags come down enough to be competitive with the current plastic varity then they will be replaced.

 

[Brent S]

Cellophane in 100% biodegradable. I'm not sure how eco the manufacturing process is as it uses carbon disulphide. Best solution for an eco shopping bag would be to buy one big woven basket and then balance it on your head like the Africans do. Just need to find a few celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow to start the craze and it would take off

Lol

 

[Brent S]

I'm sure that you already know this Brent, but most scientists work for private companies. They develop products that people need, want and will buy. When there's a need for a product someone develop it and market it. The problem here is the majority of people just don't care. They're only interested in convenience and cost. When the cost of biodegradable bags come down enough to be competitive with the current plastic varity then they will be replaced.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the majority of people just don’t care. Most are self absorbed and don’t care what happens ‘down the road’. As long as it dosent inconvenience them in any way. Most, not all, people are greedy and only care what affects them. That’s where having the govt mandate some things comes into play as being good. A lot of what the govt mandates dosent accomplish what it was intended, or has unwanted side affects though. That dosent mean things can’t be revised or nothing new should ever be tried though. I think if things are left to the masses then humanity will kill itself through greed, neglect and abuse. Someone intelligent needs to be driving the car.... right now intelligence seems to be lacking in our govt. though. Doing away with the two party system would be a good start. The two sides hate each other so much that nothing gets done. I guess this qualifies as my rant for the day!

 

[DrHenley]

Before government and the bleeding heart stupid environmentalists got involved, we all used paper bags. Those bags at Walmart are not made from all natural, renewable resources. Want to bet they are a bi-product of a fossil fuel? What happens to them when their handle breaks or a seam opens up? They are discarded into a land fill, just like the plastic bags. Want bio-bags, go back to paper.

Dimwit liberal bleeding hearts didn't have a clue that when you grow trees to make paper, the carbon comes OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE. When you bury the paper bags, they decompose and become PLANT FOOD.

I own a tree farm. Someone bought carbon credits from us. Because of the tree farm, I am CARBON NEGATIVE. That is, I take more carbon out of the environment than I put back in. How many bleeding heart liberals are carbon negative? Almost none, I'll wager! Yap all you want about greenhouse gas and global warming, I'm actually doing something.

 

[Brent S]

I planted about 35 fruit trees, does that count? Lol. I actually planted more than that but have cut down all the peaches due to high maintenance. We won’t talk about all the trees I cut down to make room for the fruit trees though....

 

[tmttactical]

Katmx mentioned biodegradable plastics. Hope this can become a viable product before too long. Would help solve a lot of issues. Science could solve most of our issues. Unfortunately greed directs where science is applied mostly.

OR we could go back to glass containers and paper bags and cardboard boxes. Then we don't have to worry about new technology.

 

[tmttactical]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the majority of people just don’t care. Most are self absorbed and don’t care what happens ‘down the road’. As long as it dosent inconvenience them in any way. Most, not all, people are greedy and only care what affects them. That’s where having the govt mandate some things comes into play as being good. A lot of what the govt mandates dosent accomplish what it was intended, or has unwanted side affects though. That dosent mean things can’t be revised or nothing new should ever be tried though. I think if things are left to the masses then humanity will kill itself through greed, neglect and abuse. Someone intelligent needs to be driving the car.... right now intelligence seems to be lacking in our govt. though. Doing away with the two party system would be a good start. The two sides hate each other so much that nothing gets done. I guess this qualifies as my rant for the day!

When was the last time the government admitted they made a mistake and then corrected it properly. Second name any politicians that are smart enough to be making the decisions for us? Those same politicians that banned paper bags or drove the cost of paper bags up to force out their use. OR closed down logging and allowed the forest to be overgrown. I don't see the government bringing back paper bags, do you? NOPE, just more plastic going into land fills. The government is not the cure for all ails, they are mostly the cause of our ails. Oh, yea I really trust the government to do the right thing----NOT.

 

[KateMTx]

The dirty little secret the enviro nuts don't want to acknowledge is, that there isn't a single product made that doesn't use petroleum products somewhere in the manufacturing process. And of course nothing gets shipped without petroleum.
If I remember correctly, paper bags use a lot of formaldehyde in the manufacturing process. Formaldehyde has been demonized by the tree huggers too. Ever been close to a pulp mill? You can smell them for miles.

That was the smell of my hometown growing up. There's a lot of chemicals involved but long-term I believe it's better for the environment than plastic.

 

[KateMTx]

Dimwit liberal bleeding hearts didn't have a clue that when you grow trees to make paper, the carbon comes OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE. When you bury the paper bags, they decompose and become PLANT FOOD.

I own a tree farm. Someone bought carbon credits from us. Because of the tree farm, I am CARBON NEGATIVE. That is, I take more carbon out of the environment than I put back in. How many bleeding heart liberals are carbon negative? Almost none, I'll wager! Yap all you want about greenhouse gas and global warming, I'm actually doing something.

How does this carbon credits thing work? Did some random person pay you money for having trees? Is this a one-time thing or could you do it multiple times?

 

[DrHenley]

Someone approached us and offered to buy the carbon credits. In order to sell carbon credits, you have to follow some very strict guidelines, but since we were doing this in a state program and went through all the massive amounts of red tape for that, we already had all our ducks in a row and qualified for the carbon credits. It took over a year to dot all the I's and cross all the T's for the state program. That is probably how the guy found out about us.

This is only for one tenth the timber we have. The other 90% doesn't qualify for the carbon credits, even though a good bit of it was also planted on state and federal programs. We've been doing this for a long time. We have one stand of nuttall oaks that were planted on a state program nearly 30 years ago, and are still growing (and taking carbon out of the atmosphere...)

 

[Mountain trapper]

A lot of people talk about cleaning up the environment, but very few people actually do anything other than bitch about how bad things are. Over the years I've owned a lot of forest land that I managed for timber and wildlife. I've put in ponds for wildlife, erosion control and growing fish. I bought a large acreage that was in CRP and timber. I planted the old farm land in native grasses.
My current property is a mix of meadows and timber. Every year i thin severl acres of over grown trees. I cleaned up a lot of old junk that was left here over the years, like the old barn, shipping container and trailer. I'm in the process of growing most of our food and we're 100% off grid. We're also doing what we can to reduce our waste without living like a hippy caveman.
I've put my money where my mouth is, and I'm pretty sure that I've done more than my "fair share". How many people actually do the same? Most people just sit around and piss and moan and expect the government to"fix" things. News flash: the government is too incompetent to solve any problems. Start with doing what you can on your own. Set an example for other people to follow.
If your against the evil petroleum industry, try living without it. If your against plastic products, quit using plastic.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Dang double posts.

 

[DrHenley]

How does this carbon credits thing work? Did some random person pay you money for having trees? Is this a one-time thing or could you do it multiple times?

Kate, here is the process. It can be extremely daunting to get everything in order so you can qualify, but 1, 2, 3, and 6 were automatically satisfied due to the state program we were in, and we had guidance from the state every step of the way. 4 and 5 were done by the person buying the carbon credits. I would say for the average landowner, satisfying the requirements will cost more that you will make. But for us, it was a simple matter of someone asking if we would sell them the carbon credits, and us saying "Yeah, sure."

1. The property must first be certified as being sustainably managed by an approved certification system. Approved certification systems include the Forest Stewardship Council, the American Tree Farm System and the Sustainable Forest Initiative. Certification requires a detailed forest management plan and an on-site inspection confirming that the landowner is in compliance with sustainability principles. The plan and inspection may be free or with fee, depending on the certification system selected.

2. An inventory documenting the current carbon stock and projecting future growth (either by using a growthand-yield model or by calculating growth via forest inventory on an annual basis) must be conducted. A professional forester is required to conduct an inventory and to project growth. A CCX-approved auditor must verify the estimated sequestration levels.

3. A contractual commitment that assures long-term sustainability is mandatory, perhaps as much as 15 years, with a penalty associated with breaching the contract.

4. A carbon aggregator registered with the CCX must be selected and then the project is registered on the CCX.

5. Carbon credits are traded by the registered carbon aggregator and periodic payments are made to landowners based on the predicted quantity of carbon credits earned. For insurance against carbon losses on the property (e.g., fire, tornado, mortality, etc.), 20 percent of the annual credits are withheld and placed in a reserve pool.

6. Landowners are required to give an annual update if any changes have been made to the forest that would alter the carbon stock (timber harvesting, or loss to natural disturbances).

7. An inventory at the conclusion of the contract quantifies the actual amount of carbon credits earned and allows for final settlement (with consideration of the 20 percent reserve pool).

 

[KateMTx]

Kate, here is the process. It can be extremely daunting to get everything in order so you can qualify, but 1, 2, 3, and 6 were automatically satisfied due to the state program we were in, and we had guidance from the state every step of the way. 4 and 5 were done by the person buying the carbon credits. I would say for the average landowner, satisfying the requirements will cost more that you will make. But for us, it was a simple matter of someone asking if we would sell them the carbon credits, and us saying "Yeah, sure."

1. The property must first be certified as being sustainably managed by an approved certification system. Approved certification systems include the Forest Stewardship Council, the American Tree Farm System and the Sustainable Forest Initiative. Certification requires a detailed forest management plan and an on-site inspection confirming that the landowner is in compliance with sustainability principles. The plan and inspection may be free or with fee, depending on the certification system selected.

2. An inventory documenting the current carbon stock and projecting future growth (either by using a growthand-yield model or by calculating growth via forest inventory on an annual basis) must be conducted. A professional forester is required to conduct an inventory and to project growth. A CCX-approved auditor must verify the estimated sequestration levels.

3. A contractual commitment that assures long-term sustainability is mandatory, perhaps as much as 15 years, with a penalty associated with breaching the contract.

4. A carbon aggregator registered with the CCX must be selected and then the project is registered on the CCX.

5. Carbon credits are traded by the registered carbon aggregator and periodic payments are made to landowners based on the predicted quantity of carbon credits earned. For insurance against carbon losses on the property (e.g., fire, tornado, mortality, etc.), 20 percent of the annual credits are withheld and placed in a reserve pool.

6. Landowners are required to give an annual update if any changes have been made to the forest that would alter the carbon stock (timber harvesting, or loss to natural disturbances).

7. An inventory at the conclusion of the contract quantifies the actual amount of carbon credits earned and allows for final settlement (with consideration of the 20 percent reserve pool).

That does sound like a bit more trouble than it would be worth for ordinary tree farmers. Still pretty cool that people would pay you for growing trees when they aren't really getting anything.

 

[DrHenley]

Carbon credits are a guilt relief mechanism for companies so they can claim to be carbon neutral. Works like this...

Somebody like me is actually taking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. So if a company pays me carbon credits, then they can say they are "investing" in something that takes carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and put "green" icons on their web page.

Truth is, I was going to take the same amount of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere whether I got the carbon credits or not. I'm the "green" one here. The company did not make one iota of a difference in the environment by paying me the carbon credits, but they will pretend like they did.

It's all a big scam, I just happen to profit from it...

 

[Petoski]

Very interesting DrHenley. I was discussing this with my girlfriend a while back and she had wondered if this was the case.

 

[DrHenley]

Since I'm certifiably "Green", I've decided to use a "Green Logo" in my signature line.

 

[lonewolf]

I don't know about green but you've certainly got the certifiable right!!