Can new cars make sense?

[SheepDog]

There is a trade-off between older vehicles and new cars.
With a new car you have payments, higher insurance costs, interest and depreciation costs.
With an older car you have maintenance, repairs and appreciation on the value.
New cars get "better" fuel economy but also have a lot more that can go wrong.
My old V8s get 20 to 27 MPG, have all the power I need, and very little to go wrong.
New cars have to go to the dealer to be diagnosed and repaired.
My old cars I can diagnose and repair on my own.
Note: my old cars are not clunkers. They have had the suspensions rebuilt, the transmissions modified (automatics built to live on the street), new timing chains and the engines are in good condition with only near 150,000 miles on them. I am not at all concerned about driving them on long trips because they are in good shape. I have had to replace radiators, heater cores, and starters as well as the front ends suspensions but my total outlay funds are well under the payments on a new car for the first year. (including the initial price of the cars)
In Washington state I have them licensed as collector vehicles so I don't pay tabs or license fees at all. All my driving is "recreational" and I drive less than 1000 miles a year with each car.(unless we take a trip or go to a car show)
I have owned exactly one new car and I will never do that again.

 

[The Lazy L]

...New cars get "better" fuel economy...

Well yes and no.

I had a Chevy S-10 built in the 1980's V-6, two wheel drive, regular cab with a fiberglass bed top. MPG was in the low 20's.

When the S-10 threw a timing chain I bought a used 2005 Colorado. The Colorado is Chevy's replacement for the S-10. My Colorado is a 5 cylinder, four-wheel drive with a regular cab and a fiberglass bed top. MPG is in the low 20's.

Work has a fleet of Colorados. All different years, some 4-wheel drive some not, regular cabs, extended cabs and four door. 4 & 5 cylinder engines. Long haul driving and short haul driving and they all average MPG is in the low 20's.

 

[HippoTwilight]

New car if you want a warranty. But then you should be leasing cars for cheaper payments and perpetual warranties.
A well maintained, lightly used vehicle (5-10yr old, <12k annual miles), is often the best value.

I've been looking for a crew cab truck. Ultimately I need a 3/4 ton gas motor, but a 1/2 ton will suit my needs for the near future. All across the board used truck prices are outrageous. 10+ year old trucks with 150k+ miles are going for 2/3 the cost of a brand new one. Finding anything in respectable condition for under $20k is like searching for Atlantis. I'm tempted to just save up a little more money and pick up a new truck during a model-year-end clearance event.

 

[AdmiralD7S]

I don't know if I'm in an area that has good deals on used cars, but when it's time to replace a vehicle, I've never had a problem finding something in a few weeks.

4 years ago, I bought an '06 outback w/ 80K miles in great shape for $12K. It was ready to go with no issues.

Last year, I bought an '06 F250 w/ 88K miles for $10,500. It needed new tires and had a few dings (expected for a 10-year-old truck). I also took a gamble on the A/C since it wasn't working, but a $100 fill-up w/ dye revealed no visible leaks, and still have cold air today (although it is winter right now ).

The key to me getting these deals was to walk away - "eh, let me think about it for a while." You might be surprised at what that can do to the price. Also, have a set price that you're willing to pay and don't go over it.

My truck started at "$14K firm", and I had driven 5-6 hours just to see it. When I pointed out the tires and A/C, he dropped it $1,000. It wasn't near enough for me, and as we turned away, the dealer said "you just drove all this way, stayed at a hotel, and are going to drive back without what you came for?" I said "I just got a 1-day roadtrip with my dad (who had driven me down), which was nice. If I don't buy this truck, I get another day with dad...and there'll be another truck somewhere else." Dealer looked absolutely defeated and asked me what price I was looking for. He offered $11K, and I started walking again. The dealer called out $10,750. I turned back and said "you're almost there." He couldn't believe I would let the truck go for a $250 delta. He had to "talk to his manager" to sell the truck at $10,500, but they did...and though they would never admit it, they made money on the deal anyway.

So, stick to your guns and be patient. I bet you'll find something used you're willing to buy.

 

[mulescj8]

At the price of a new truck I am going to drive my current truck till the wheels fall off.
I can do a lot of repairs for what a couple month payments would be on a new one.
My suggestion is get pre approved for a low interest loan from your credit union and shop for a privately owned car.
You can always make an inspection part of the deal.
As Sentry said they are making money some where even on a zero loan.

Amen! I have a 1997 F350 Dually Crewcab 7.3 diesel with 205,000 and a 2002 F250 7.3 with 186,000 miles and I guess I will either die still owning these two or they rust to the point I can't fix them. I refuse to pay $55,000 plus for a truck to throw crap in them and to pull my trailers. I wouldn't be afraid to drive either one of them from coast to coast.

 

[mulescj8]

I don't know if I'm in an area that has good deals on used cars, but when it's time to replace a vehicle, I've never had a problem finding something in a few weeks.

4 years ago, I bought an '06 outback w/ 80K miles in great shape for $12K. It was ready to go with no issues.

Last year, I bought an '06 F250 w/ 88K miles for $10,500. It needed new tires and had a few dings (expected for a 10-year-old truck). I also took a gamble on the A/C since it wasn't working, but a $100 fill-up w/ dye revealed no visible leaks, and still have cold air today (although it is winter right now ).

The key to me getting these deals was to walk away - "eh, let me think about it for a while." You might be surprised at what that can do to the price. Also, have a set price that you're willing to pay and don't go over it.

My truck started at "$14K firm", and I had driven 5-6 hours just to see it. When I pointed out the tires and A/C, he dropped it $1,000. It wasn't near enough for me, and as we turned away, the dealer said "you just drove all this way, stayed at a hotel, and are going to drive back without what you came for?" I said "I just got a 1-day roadtrip with my dad (who had driven me down), which was nice. If I don't buy this truck, I get another day with dad...and there'll be another truck somewhere else." Dealer looked absolutely defeated and asked me what price I was looking for. He offered $11K, and I started walking again. The dealer called out $10,750. I turned back and said "you're almost there." He couldn't believe I would let the truck go for a $250 delta. He had to "talk to his manager" to sell the truck at $10,500, but they did...and though they would never admit it, they made money on the deal anyway.

So, stick to your guns and be patient. I bet you'll find something used you're willing to buy.

I'm with you here! I have got up and walked out on several deals over $50.00 to $200.00 When I decide to buy I know what I'm willing to give and if I'm trading I know what I will take in trade, I have kept sales people 3-4 hours past closing time haggling over a couple hundred dollars and either walking out or gotten it for the price that I offered them at the start.............kind of a war of stubbornness............I don't have the nick name mule for no reason lol

 

[Rick]

Sometimes it seems with factory incentives on some new cars (that used cars arent eligible for) the price difference between say a one year used altima (almost 40 mpg on hiway w/ a 18 gallon fuel tank for an incredible unrefulled range BTW) and a brand new altima (or Titan etc) is almost nil.

I think it depends on the vehicle and the deals that exist at the time.
I personally enjoy car shopping and buy a new (to me) used car every other year.

Its my only vice/luxury. ( dont drink, dont smoke, dont own a fancy house.. dont got to expensive restaurants but I do enjoy vehicles)

 

[PopPopT]

There is definitely variation depending upon what you're shopping for. I could never even think of replacing my F350 CC 7.3 diesel dually. I'd have to lay out like $70k. Not happening. Then again, if I replaced the engine and trans today, I'd likely be spending north of $15k just for the engine and trans. That's a world I can't afford and honestly don't want to deal with anymore.

I'm talking cars, or more specifically, small SUV's. Wife insists on 4WD or AWD, not negotiable. And I'm tired of looking at stuff with high miles AND high dollars to go with. I don't need fancy and too many gadgets, especially electronic, kinda worry me, even more so when there are a lot of miles on the clock.

Unlike BlueZ, I don't like car shopping. It seems like almost every time I've been anywhere near a dealership, I feel dirty and when I'm done, I feel like I've been screwed.

Wife is getting that she wants a car, and probably this year. So something is gonna happen.

Thanks for the discussion!

 

[ssonb]

PPT If you didn't fell that way the salesmen would not be doing their job.

 

[mulescj8]

There is definitely variation depending upon what you're shopping for. I could never even think of replacing my F350 CC 7.3 diesel dually. I'd have to lay out like $70k. Not happening. Then again, if I replaced the engine and trans today, I'd likely be spending north of $15k just for the engine and trans. That's a world I can't afford and honestly don't want to deal with anymore.

I'm talking cars, or more specifically, small SUV's. Wife insists on 4WD or AWD, not negotiable. And I'm tired of looking at stuff with high miles AND high dollars to go with. I don't need fancy and too many gadgets, especially electronic, kinda worry me, even more so when there are a lot of miles on the clock.

Unlike BlueZ, I don't like car shopping. It seems like almost every time I've been anywhere near a dealership, I feel dirty and when I'm done, I feel like I've been screwed.

Wife is getting that she wants a car, and probably this year. So something is gonna happen.

Thanks for the discussion!

I started looking last fall because I knew my wife's car was going to have to be replaced at some point............motor let go on it in February, I found a brand new 2016 Kia Optima EX that had anther $5000.00 in options on it still siting on the dealers lot with full warranty and I got it out the door for less than I could get a 2017 or 2018 and I looked at fords, Chevy's. Nissans, Toyotas, Dodges............the Optima is American made also so that was a plus for me also...............I'm not brand loyal I've own many different brands. I shop for the best deal and dependability. Sometimes you have to dig a little but there are some bargains out there. You might be surprised how many two year old brand new ones are still sitting on the lots and most dealers are willing to deal to move them.

I had a list of 25 or 30 cars we had either looked at or had gotten prices on. I would call the dealers and tell them I'm interested in "stock number XXXX" and I was going to buy a new one and they had a one shot deal with me on the price quote and I was going to buy from who ever gave me the best deal. I made sure the salesman at the Kia dealer saw my list, he said you've done your home work haven't you? I said yes and I'm going to give you the same chance I gave everyone else. Give me the best price you can give me or I will move on. Kia also had the best warranty of all of them which means I don't have to work on it for quite awhile,

 

[angie_nrs]

PopPopT - I hate dealing with car salespeople too! We did a lot of online shopping before we even stepped foot out the door. If nothing else, you can get a good idea of what price ranges you are looking at so when an opportunity presents itself, you have already done your research. We checked Craigslist too. Sometimes local folks selling their own vehicles can be talked off the price more than a dealer. Plus, I feel that local folks typically are more honest than car dealers, although that bar is set pretty low. I know one of the sites we used was autotrader but there were others too. We just bought two new (to us) vehicles with low mileage in the past 1.5 years and we found both of them online first before heading to the dealership.

 

[Rick]

There is definitely variation depending upon what you're shopping for. I could never even think of replacing my F350 CC 7.3 diesel dually. I'd have to lay out like $70k. Not happening. Then again, if I replaced the engine and trans today, I'd likely be spending north of $15k just for the engine and trans. That's a world I can't afford and honestly don't want to deal with anymore.

I'm talking cars, or more specifically, small SUV's. Wife insists on 4WD or AWD, not negotiable. And I'm tired of looking at stuff with high miles AND high dollars to go with. I don't need fancy and too many gadgets, especially electronic, kinda worry me, even more so when there are a lot of miles on the clock.

Unlike BlueZ, I don't like car shopping. It seems like almost every time I've been anywhere near a dealership, I feel dirty and when I'm done, I feel like I've been screwed.

Wife is getting that she wants a car, and probably this year. So something is gonna happen.

Thanks for the discussion!

One of the best kept secreys in the SUVs world are Nissans SUVs from the first half of the 2010s.
Super reliable powertrains , real SUVs body on frame... w/o being too large and only about 70% the price of the equivalent Toyotas:

Basic 4x4 XTerra;.. the slogan was "Everything you need and nothing you dont"

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...=false&filtersModified=true#listing=202680413

High end with lockable rear diff and sweet Rockford-Fosgate 11 speaker stereo.. Bilstein shocks roofmounted lights etc etc.. the PRO4X trim is the equivalent of Toyotas TRD

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...ersModified=true#listing=202999779_isFeatured

Or if you want a little more room and a nicer interior, the R51 generation of the Pathfinder is also quite good and costs onyl 70% of an equally equipped equally miled 4runner:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...ersModified=true#listing=201800612_isFeatured

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...d=true&filtersModified=true#listing=200541539

And the loaded LE, this one has a bit higher miles but is gorgeous and aggressivle priced.
On cars with these engines I dont fear miles much anyway:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...d=true&filtersModified=true#listing=196890009

 

[Rick]

And then there is this.. something I really want ... yet cannot justify..just dropped by 2 k too.:
https://www.victorymotorsva.com/1999_BMW_5 Series_Manassas_VA_17651026.veh

 

[Flight]

When my 2005 G6 dies I'm going to ask for a ride from one on you guys lol

 

[zoomzoom]

Sounds like y'all have terrible dealers if the experience sucks like you say. Around here, the customer experience is excellent. We stopped by one dealer right after work and had the kids with us. While we were looking, my son said he was hungry. The dealership ordered a pizza for us. The dealers are straightforward on pricing and often come in within a couple % of where we want to be. Haggling a couple % is pretty easy.

 

[zoomzoom]

And then there is this.. something I really want ... yet cannot justify..just dropped by 2 k too.:
https://www.victorymotorsva.com/1999_BMW_5 Series_Manassas_VA_17651026.veh

Are you specifically looking for an E39 540 manual? I have a 2003 E39 530i that's really clean that I'm thinking of selling.

 

[Rick]

Are you specifically looking for an E39 540 manual? I have a 2003 E39 530i that's really clean that I'm thinking of selling.

Zoom, Zoom.. that sounds like a sweet car and if I was still the man I was 10 years ago I we might do business.
But I am now focused more on firearms and prepping and as a result my vehicles are prepper type vehicles like SUVs.

Also right now I dont feel terribly secure in my job.

But even so when at some point you actually get to putting it out there though feel free to PM me the ad.

 

[LincTex]

My advice is:
Don’t get emotional about a car purchase. Too many people by what they want instead of buying what they need.

A few years ago, I really wanted a diesel Ford F-250. I did not want one with more than 150,000 miles, though. My budget was no more than $15,000………… Which I found was completely unrealistic! I finally just gave up, took a few steps back, & decided to really study what exactly I really needed, versus what I really wanted.

Now, granted – my situation is not the same as yours, but I got what I wanted for a lot less money. I did a lot of research on which vehicles were the MOST reliable & require the least amount of repairs, & decided on a middle 2000’s Ford F150 would be the best thing for me to look for. I found one - a 2008 in mint condition, with the trouble-free 4.6 engine that I wanted, just a tick over 100,000 miles, & got it for $8300. I put $4000 cash & financed $4300. The truck is adequate to do 90% of my trailer towing needs.

I still needed a bigger truck to pull my big gooseneck trailer, though. Honestly, it isn’t very often – but it’s cost prohibitive to try to hire somebody to do the jobs I need to do 3-4 times a year. After a fair bit of searching & turning over stones…… I found a really nice 1995 Chevy K3500 4x4 Dually for only $1800. Both trucks are under my farm insurance, so it’s really not that expensive to own them.

I would not be afraid of high mileage vehicles, if the price is right – the proper maintenance has been done – & the vehicle has a good reputation for reliability. I hear good things & bad things about Subarus, so I won’t comment directly on your consideration of the Subaru, other than I would not own one myself, personally

 

[Spikedriver]

My perspective is a bit different. I drive 35-50k per year, travelling cross country for work. My vehicles get worn out before they get old. I won't buy new, as the depreciation coupled with the higher cost makes it more difficult to pay cars off before they're worn out. (I consider a car worn out at 200k, even if it still runs well. I'm not driving a 200k+ mile car 20 hours to my job.) So, I buy newer used cars. My 2014 Equinox cost me just over 18k out the door. I financed just over 12k for 4 years, for about a $300/month payment. I should be able to get close to 5 years from it before it hits 200k since my old Buick is still running ok and I use it for most of my running around home.
One thing to consider, though, is year end closeouts. Chevy in particular, seems to offer great deals that really cut down on the depreciation and can knock a year off your loan while still getting you a new car...

 

[Cnsper]

My pickup is 43 years old 3/4 ton 4x4. Paid $800 for it and put on r new tires and a new carb. It runs great for about $1,500. The car I just bought I paid $400 for and put $75 into the brakes. Less than 2k for both of them and would drive them anywhere.

I can make a lot of repairs for the cost of one new vehicle.

I like when people give up on a vehicle because I get deals like this. I can get 2k out of the truck and 1200 out of th he car the way they sit and have done so many times.

Bought a Dodge 4x4 for 700 put about 100 into it and sold it for 2500 after driving it for about 6 months.

A new car will never make sense to me.

I also have 2 semis, one is a 1993 and the other is a 1994. No sensors to shut them down on the road for some stupid reason.

 

[Terri9630]

My pickup is 43 years old 3/4 ton 4x4. Paid $800 for it and put on r new tires and a new carb. It runs great for about $1,500. The car I just bought I paid $400 for and put $75 into the brakes. Less than 2k for both of them and would drive them anywhere.

I can make a lot of repairs for the cost of one new vehicle.

I like when people give up on a vehicle because I get deals like this. I can get 2k out of the truck and 1200 out of th he car the way they sit and have done so many times.

Bought a Dodge 4x4 for 700 put about 100 into it and sold it for 2500 after driving it for about 6 months.

A new car will never make sense to me.

I also have 2 semis, one is a 1993 and the other is a 1994. No sensors to shut them down on the road for some stupid reason.

I was listening to a couple of parents at the range yesterday and one has a Chevy truck. He said he had it towed to a shop because it wouldn't start. The next day the shop guy called and told him it was because it was low on oil. Aparently it has a low oil sensor like a generator that kills the engine before it burns up. I've never heard of that one before.

 

[Cnsper]

I was listen8mg to a couple of parents at the,range yesterday and one has a Chevy truck. He said he had it towed to a shop because it wouldn't start. The next day the shop guy called and told him it was because it was low on oil. Aparently it has a low oil sensor like a generator that kills the engine before it burns up. I've never heard of that one before.

That sensor is not a bad thing, that is an idiot

 

[ssonb]

Terry the couple who had to have The Chevy towed are a common phenomenon in the automotive repair world I see them every week. Even I do not carry any tools in my vehicles (a 14 and an 18)for on the road repairs, you cannot carry enuf but I do consider Being able to raise the hood and check the oil slightly important. What I am seeing now which is a bad portent for the ones of us that keep the much older non computerised models is a growing scarcity of repair parts. These models are approaching 50 years old! Just think the venerable small block Chevy has not been produced for 20 years itself.

 

[Terri9630]

He knew it was low, said it was scheduled for an oil change the next week and didn't see a reason to waste new oil by adding it to the old. I guess if he had read the owners manual he would have known about the sensor but how many have ACTUALLY read their owners manual?

 

[Terri9630]

Your right with old parts being difficult to find. It took me hours of searching online to find a replacement blinker/wiper/cruise control arm for my 91 cherokee.

 

[Cnsper]

I don't have a problem finding parts for my 43 year old chevy

 

[ssonb]

Cp ya either own your own junk yard or they just ship um to ya on the side of the road.

 

[Cnsper]

Cp ya either own your own junk yard or they just ship um to ya on the side of the road.

Never left me on the road and parts stores here carry parts I need

 

[ssonb]

No argument here . I live and work on vehicles in a larger metro area, the parts shufflers here only stock what items that the corporate central will allow. You can special order if you know exactly what you need. We try our best to only use the OE parts but many parts on that age and newer have been discontinued.

 

[Cnsper]

I don't care about oem parts. That is probably why I don't have an issue finding them.