Can new cars make sense?

[viking]

One day I was talking to my DW about getting a good used pickup and since we've had such good service with our Toyota Sienna she told me to check out newer Toyota pickups, so I got on line and found a 2007 Toyota Tundra with 244,000 miles for $9,000 that happened to be at the same dealership that we got the Sienna from, anyway while we were at the dealership service department to get a new rack and pinion assemble we looked at that pickup and they printed out a Carfax and we found that it had been regularly serviced at places we know to be very good. We took it for a test drive and it ran great, no clear coat paint problems, I even burned a little rubber taking off from a stop light, I was very impressed with the power and operation of the vehicle and when we got back to the dealership my wife asked me if I liked it and thought it was good, I said yes and it came home with us. It's a dual cab four wheel drive with the 5.7 I-Force engine, 6 speed auto and has a 6.5' bed, we figure that it's been garaged due to the paint and headlights being in such good condition. Yes, Toyota parts can be expensive but Grants Pass Toyota has treated us better than any other dealer we've dealt with over the years. There is presently one Tundra that has a million miles on it and another one with 995,000 miles, so even with 245,000 on our odometer, I'm not overly concerned about how many miles we'll be able to drive it and it's paid for, wife surprised me on that. One more thing, like I mentioned before, my bucket list had at the top a Mustang GT, the way this Tundra runs, I don't think I'll need a fast car, it's truly amazing how quick it is, I watched a video of a guy that installed a supercharger on his dual cab and was turning 11 second quarter miles. At one time Toyota offered a factory supercharger, I think it had 550 hp and 500 ft.lbs. of torque, as quick as ours is and getting fair fuel mileage, I don't think I'll do anything more for upping the power, 380 hp. and 400 ft. lbs. of torque is not that shabby and another thing, when I looked under out Tundra, it's built like a tank.

 

[backlash]

One day I was talking to my DW about getting a good used pickup and since we've had such good service with our Toyota Sienna she told me to check out newer Toyota pickups, so I got on line and found a 2007 Toyota Tundra with 244,000 miles for $9,000 that happened to be at the same dealership that we got the Sienna from, anyway while we were at the dealership service department to get a new rack and pinion assemble we looked at that pickup and they printed out a Carfax and we found that it had been regularly serviced at places we know to be very good. We took it for a test drive and it ran great, no clear coat paint problems, I even burned a little rubber taking off from a stop light, I was very impressed with the power and operation of the vehicle and when we got back to the dealership my wife asked me if I liked it and thought it was good, I said yes and it came home with us. It's a dual cab four wheel drive with the 5.7 I-Force engine, 6 speed auto and has a 6.5' bed, we figure that it's been garaged due to the paint and headlights being in such good condition. Yes, Toyota parts can be expensive but Grants Pass Toyota has treated us better than any other dealer we've dealt with over the years. There is presently one Tundra that has a million miles on it and another one with 995,000 miles, so even with 245,000 on our odometer, I'm not overly concerned about how many miles we'll be able to drive it and it's paid for, wife surprised me on that. One more thing, like I mentioned before, my bucket list had at the top a Mustang GT, the way this Tundra runs, I don't think I'll need a fast car, it's truly amazing how quick it is, I watched a video of a guy that installed a supercharger on his dual cab and was turning 11 second quarter miles. At one time Toyota offered a factory supercharger, I think it had 550 hp and 500 ft.lbs. of torque, as quick as ours is and getting fair fuel mileage, I don't think I'll do anything more for upping the power, 380 hp. and 400 ft. lbs. of torque is not that shabby and another thing, when I looked under out Tundra, it's built like a tank.

Every single person I know that has a Toyota loves them. I have never heard a Toyotd driver say anything negative.
I looked t them, but a Ford F150 Platinum won me over.

 

[viking]

P.S. For us it is far less expensive for parts than it would be for down payment and monthly payments, it's really nice not to have those to deal with.

 

[Terri9630]

I have 2 friends with Tundras and they love them.

 

[Bacpacker]

I've had 3 Tundra's. 1st was a 2002 Limited 4 door. I kept it for 198,000 miles and sold it to my nephew after it had been thru a major hail storm in 2011. He kept it for several years. I got the second one a 2008 SR5 Double cab long bed. I pulled a 5th wheel with it. It to had the 5.7 and 6 sp automatic. I had about 100,000 on it when I got rear ended at a red light and it was totaled. I was lucky and found another 08 almost indentical to it, including long bed (which are very hard to find in a double cab model). It only had 38,000 on it when I bought it in 2017. Other than oil changes and timing belts I never have had to do anything else to them. The 02 still had the original brakes on it.
I think you'll be happy with your purchase. You did get a good price on it.

 

[Rick]

This thread is still going so I chime in as a former car enthusiast.

I am buying new cars as a matter of exception but I still do on occasion.
This holds especially when for a certain model the different between new and used is not big enough to justify the used.

For example a brand new Frontier mid trim with end of model year incentives , 4WD, V6, Crew cab, climate control , reasonably equipped but not loaded can be had in the mid 25-26 k range.
brand new
A used frontier 5 years old same trim level and equipment , 60,000 miles can still cost $19,000 or even 20,000.. so only 6 k difference.. No brainer to go with new.
If I am lusting however for a Dodge Charger with a hemi... a 5 yr old is maybe 60% of new.. then go with used.. also no brainer..

In other words it depends on what you are interested in and what the market is for that vehicle.
Some certified cars can be a great deal.. but some certified cars only seem to be a couple grand off new and then whats the point of buying used...

So in the end there is no hard and fast rule either way, except perhaps this one..

The price of the car has to be proportionate to two factors.. How much are you into cars.. this tells how much pleasure you will gain from a nicer and or newer model.. and how much money do you make.. I think we can all agree that if you arent into cars and make maybe 25k a year. it makes little sense to spend ( via a loan) 30k on a car...
Or maybe the vehicle is central to your earning power ...

This is a scale I once developed;

-If you are a young single car enthusiast with few or no obligations. A car can cost as much as 50% of your yearly gross and still be reasonable.... since your life experiences will greatly revolve around that car and it will make you happy... so a 22 year old dude making 30k a year as Asst. manager at a BK may buy a 15k used 350Z its a ton of money for him but being were he is in life its not crazy.
- For a normal adult with obligations and financial goals I say 25% of gross yearly is a reasonable maximum price.. Say you Make 80K a year spending more than 20k for something thats just an appliance to you, is not a good idea.
- You have a large family but moderate income.. try to keep the price of a car as low as possible while still being reliable.. Example Making 40k a year while being the head few a family of 4 people... 10k ( 25% might even be too much.. Nowadays plenty fo relaible cars can be had for 5-6k if you dont want flash or fun.. so in taht situation look at 15% of your yearly gross.

Conversely if you make 200k a year and are single there is little reason for you to accept driving around in a car that costs 3k... missing out on a workday which will make you a third of the cost of the car due to a break down wouldnt make any sense... the expense of a car costing 4 times as much you will barely notice.

so in summary:
- Young Car enthusiast with few obligations: Spend 50% or more be happy . taking a loan would be necessary for most spending 50% of gross.
- Grown up with a family .. you have obligations but dont want (or cant) drive a beater 25%.. might not be able to avoid a loan at 25% but at least its a small one
- Big family and/or older: maybe 15% is a good idea.. and avoid loans at all cost.

As I get older I have gone thru car stages.. As a young car enthusiast I would easily spend 50% of my yearly on a car.. It was all about the car and I gained a lot of excitement, entertainment and contentment from that.. and was happy to be financed
Now I am more of a 10-15% kind of car person since I like to save money for ammo and PMs and at my current income 10-15% still gets me a reliable SUV.

 

[The Lazy L]

...For example a brand new Frontier mid trim with end of model year incentives , 4WD, V6, Crew cab, climate control , reasonably equipped but not loaded can be had in the mid 25-26 k range.
brand new.

A used frontier 5 years old same trim level and equipment , 60,000 miles can still cost $19,000 or even 20,000.. so only 6 k difference.. No brainer to go with new.....

I am of the opposite thought. I'll let others buy new and take the depreciation as soon as they drive it off the lot. Pay the higher registration, sales tax and insurance cost too. Saving me the $6,000 plus related costs.

13 years ago I purchased a used 2005 Truck with 12,000 miles on it. Cost me $10,000 less then that new Jeep I REALLY wanted. Today the truck has just under 100,000. With routine maintenance there has been no surprise repair bills. Figure the truck is good for another 10 years and by that time the children would have taken my driver's licenses away.

The $10,000 I saved earned interest and will be used this year to help pay for a new roof on the house.

Sunday wife laughed at me when I told her I made a change in one of our utilities that will save $24 a year. She laughed and said big deal! I told her that a little $ here and a little $ there adds up over a period of time, could be that's why I'm debt free and she's carrying credit card balances? She changed the subject.

 

[Spikedriver]

I look at vehicles as consumeables. Since I drive nearly 50k miles yearly I keep 2 on hand. I only look at, can I pay it off before it's used up? If the answer is no, it's off my list. When I was less financially stable I looked for good 8-10 year old cars with good reliability reputations. In 2012 I bought my grandma's 2001 Buick Century from her estate sale for $2700. I got 90,000 miles and only had to fix 2 broken front springs and the catalytic converter in that time. It was a rusty but trusty car. In 2014 I bought a 2005 Buick LeSabre for $6800 total price. I didn't have nearly as good luck with it. I only got 60,000 miles and it was falling apart with 185k on it. Now I have 2 newer used cars (2014 Chevy Equinox and 2015 Mazda 6) and one is paid off while the other has a $240/month payment. Slightly used is the way to go for me.

Now, if you've got some cash to put down and you won't be driving more than 10-12k miles a year, a new car can make sense, especially if it's something that holds value like a 4WD truck. But you have to be able to keep it for years.

 

[Meerkat]

We don't leave the house but a couple times a year to visit family,or go to the beach. So the 25 year old old van and 33 year old truck suits us just fine. No expensive computers or gadgets to repair or buy. I just hope e can keep finding parts when we need them.
I like my old van and he loves his old hard body King Cab Nissan.

 

[SheepDog]

I have three cars, one is a project and the other two are daily drivers. They are all late 1960s to early 1970s cars. I can do all the work on them and have no bills other than fuel and insurance.
I don't have to buy new tags because they are all licensed as classic cars. I can fix most anything that can go wrong on the side of the road. The engines are in good shape, the transmissions have been rebuilt/modified by me and I do the little maintenance they require. I have had them for well over ten years and they always start and run.

 

[Meerkat]

I have three cars, one is a project and the other two are daily drivers. They are all late 1960s to early 1970s cars. I can do all the work on them and have no bills other than fuel and insurance.
I don't have to buy new tags because they are all licensed as classic cars. I can fix most anything that can go wrong on the side of the road. The engines are in good shape, the transmissions have been rebuilt/modified by me and I do the little maintenance they require. I have had them for well over ten years and they always start and run.

SheepD, we put this on our van several years ago. Since it is known to roll over. Hope it works,it cost lots of money over $500.
Skip to 3:27 to see Road Master test.

 

[SheepDog]

The suspension limiter (what the road master is) is a big help in the handling characteristics of a vehicle. It essentially makes the suspension rigid once it reaches a certain point in its travel.
A trained driver can make a big difference too. I remember the tests done on the old Corvair cars and how the driver forced rollovers. The car was not unsafe but the driver made it look like a death trap.
Any time you drive you have to match your speed with any maneuver that you will perform. In order for a car to be comfortable and its suspension to work the center of gravity has to be above the height of the axle. The roll center should be designed as high above the center of gravity as is practicable. That make the car more predictable in its roll and allows the driver to "feel" the roll before it reaches a dangerous point. You can do that with a stiffer suspension or with the geometry of the suspension. In road race cars the engineer uses both and limits the suspension to about two inches of travel. Not something you want on your grocery getter/family car. It is still possible to roll the car if you hit a curb or sink in soft road surface (or if you are stupid). If a car can't roll it has to slide and a slide is more dangerous and harder to control than a roll.
You will be fine with your van as long as you remember that it is a family car and not a NASCAR racer.

 

[Meerkat]

The suspension limiter (what the road master is) is a big help in the handling characteristics of a vehicle. It essentially makes the suspension rigid once it reaches a certain point in its travel.
A trained driver can make a big difference too. I remember the tests done on the old Corvair cars and how the driver forced rollovers. The car was not unsafe but the driver made it look like a death trap.
Any time you drive you have to match your speed with any maneuver that you will perform. In order for a car to be comfortable and its suspension to work the center of gravity has to be above the height of the axle. The roll center should be designed as high above the center of gravity as is practicable. That make the car more predictable in its roll and allows the driver to "feel" the roll before it reaches a dangerous point. You can do that with a stiffer suspension or with the geometry of the suspension. In road race cars the engineer uses both and limits the suspension to about two inches of travel. Not something you want on your grocery getter/family car. It is still possible to roll the car if you hit a curb or sink in soft road surface (or if you are stupid). If a car can't roll it has to slide and a slide is more dangerous and harder to control than a roll.
You will be fine with your van as long as you remember that it is a family car and not a NASCAR racer.

My fast cars days have been over for a long time. Since the late 1960s after the kids started coming.

Thanks for the advice SheepD. I'm glad you agree about the Road Master too it makes me feel better about the price.

 

[Terri9630]

I look at vehicles as consumeables. Since I drive nearly 50k miles yearly I keep 2 on hand. I only look at, can I pay it off before it's used up? If the answer is no, it's off my list. When I was less financially stable I looked for good 8-10 year old cars with good reliability reputations. In 2012 I bought my grandma's 2001 Buick Century from her estate sale for $2700. I got 90,000 miles and only had to fix 2 broken front springs and the catalytic converter in that time. It was a rusty but trusty car. In 2014 I bought a 2005 Buick LeSabre for $6800 total price. I didn't have nearly as good luck with it. I only got 60,000 miles and it was falling apart with 185k on it. Now I have 2 newer used cars (2014 Chevy Equinox and 2015 Mazda 6) and one is paid off while the other has a $240/month payment. Slightly used is the way to go for me.

Now, if you've got some cash to put down and you won't be driving more than 10-12k miles a year, a new car can make sense, especially if it's something that holds value like a 4WD truck. But you have to be able to keep it for years.

We have a 03 mazda 6 with over 200,000 miles on it. Its never left us stranded but we are having some issues with the e brake. If your parked on a hill and don't leave it in gear(manual trans) it will allow the car to slowly roll after a while.

 

[Meerkat]

We have a 03 mazda 6 with over 200,000 miles on it. Its never left us stranded but we are having some issues with the e brake. If your parked on a hill and don't leave it in gear(manual trans) it will allow the car to slowly roll after a while.

Our emergency breaks on the van have never worked so we just use blocks we keep in it. No hills around here at all. No rocks either which was a surprise. I was looking for one to throw at our dogs and not one anywhere. So I used a potato to shut them up. I still have a good arm and aim.

 

[LincTex]

I just bought a Kia Optima with only 17,000 miles on it from the estate of some friends of mine (Her dad passed on) - It was $10,000 (2.39% APR from the credit union) and I don't think I could have found a better deal on anything anywhere else. Some really good deal are still out there.

 

[Cnsper]

Last April I bought a 2003 Silverado that currently has 254k miles on it and running strong still. Transmission had just been rebuilt and they were still having issues and some electrical issues. Battery was cracked and I paid $500 for the truck.

Today I just bought a 2013 Hyundai Elantra for $1,500 and books at over 4k

 

[lonewolf]

most "new" cars over here aren't new at all, they have been siting on the dock side for years.
I prefer something older that has had most of the bugs knocked out of it, wife's car is an 07(2007) and mine is an 04(2004) both are very reliable and haven't let us down yet and we have had them for several years.
besides you'd need a mortgage over here to buy a new car, the price is ridiculous.