Catalan independence?

[TexasFreedom]

Wow, first post on this topic, and it could cause huge waves.

Short version: NE Spain is a region called Catalan. They speak a different dialect of spanish than the rest of the country. It is also a wealthy region, that gets taxed heavily to support the rest of the country. That region has been planning a vote for if they want to split from Spain and become their own country (but still within the EU). Spain's federal gov't has declared the vote illegal and has been arresting people confiscating ballots & other things in an effort to stop it. Federalists are demanding that local police follow their orders.

It's been brewing for months. General surveys show that the people were 50/50 to succeed. But I suspect all the federal strong-arming could have swayed people against the federals. Anti-federalists will be emboldened to go out & vote, while federal supporters maybe intimidated (by the federalists) and not show up fearing arrest for voting. Drum roll please, the vote is tomorrow, Sunday 10/1/17.

There are some expectations of violence. Governors and mayors and police chiefs and police and soldiers will be at odds.

My thought is how can the federals call it an illegal vote? Separating may be illegal today, but laws could change tomorrow. This is only a vote, a chance for Catalan and all of Spain to hear the will of the people. To me it seems the federalists want to stick their fingers in their ears & scream... not a good strategy for a gov't.

Full disclosure: I am 50% Catalan.

 

[Silent Earth]

The EU will work quietly in the back ground to ensure Catalonian independence does not happen, The EU is moving inevitably towards becoming a totalitarian state and they dont like national identity. Note the absolute silence from the EU over the 800 casualties caused by the federal police on Sunday. Note the urgency in which the EU desperately wants to created an EU army and Federal police force to control rebellious regions. Note that if the Catalans get their freedom then Scotland may do the same and vice versa AGAIN the EU wants neither. Remember that the EU and Europe is ran by mainly socialists and former communists like Frau Merkel, And of coursw if the Catalans get freedom then the neighbouring Basques in northern Spain and Southern France will want the same and there is no way the EUSSR will allow that.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Well the vote is done. Overwhelmingly people voted for independence (90%?). SE is 100% right that EU doesn't want this to happen.

I can see this easily back-firing on EU. If Catalan gets independence, they will require Catalan to apply to join the EU. Sure. Catalan can easily say no thank you. Yes, it will hurt Catalan, but not as much as it will hurt the EU. In money due to Catalan's wealth. And significantly for rebellion, as SE said Scotland and others can use this as their rallying cry for independence. Or some eastern EU (former iron curtain countries) may want out due to the muslim invasion.

But the question now is what will Catalan do? They had their vote. The federalists showed how brutal they can be. It left a really bad taste in everyone's mouth. As I suspected, I read numerous stories of people who were anti-separation who changed their minds after seeing how the federalists acted like Nazis. Who knows, but I suspect Catalan will act quickly rather that let this be a long drawn-out event... we will see.

 

[Silent Earth]

You have to watch ALL Federal organisations and those bastards who support them. EG the EU announced it was going to rationalise the EU members gun laws, What they PROMISED was to leave unlicenced ALL Non Military calbres like 22LR 30-06 , 45ACP , But what they ACTUALLY did is Cherry Pick the most draconian of all gun laws.

THEN with them being sneaky back stabbing federalists they got many of their supporters in the member states like the UK to remove TREASON from the statutes thus ensuring they would never face justice.

 

[Silent Earth]

Well the vote is done. Overwhelmingly people voted for independence (90%?). SE is 100% right that EU doesn't want this to happen.

I can see this easily back-firing on EU. If Catalan gets independence, they will require Catalan to apply to join the EU. Sure. Catalan can easily say no thank you. Yes, it will hurt Catalan, but not as much as it will hurt the EU. In money due to Catalan's wealth. And significantly for rebellion, as SE said Scotland and others can use this as their rallying cry for independence. Or some eastern EU (former iron curtain countries) may want out due to the muslim invasion.

But the question now is what will Catalan do? They had their vote. The federalists showed how brutal they can be. It left a really bad taste in everyone's mouth. As I suspected, I read numerous stories of people who were anti-separation who changed their minds after seeing how the federalists acted like Nazis. Who knows, but I suspect Catalan will act quickly rather that let this be a long drawn-out event... we will see.

Federal Spanish government is as I type considering taking over the government of Catalonia by force if neccessary, The Locals are pouring onto the streets of Barcellona, sadly most Spaniards are as now disarmed as we Brits are.

 

[Silent Earth]

There is more chance of TX or CA being allowed to cede than Spain has.

 

[jontte]

this will end in blood...

 

[TexasFreedom]

this will end in blood...

There already is blood. What, 800 people injured? And is that hospitalized, or just 'injured'?

Watch the video of the streets of Barcelona today. You think the people are ticked off?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...dependence-barcelona-catalunya-violence-video
And a second video, look at how the police are surrounded & significantly outnumbered, and start using batons on unarmed, nonaggresive people:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-independence-vote-Police-evicted-from-hotels

Anyone for or against the federalists can see that their strategy is about as bad as the NFL's...actually worse (the NFL would have to take white people on the field and beat them during the National Anthem to compete with Spain's violence).

 

[Silent Earth]

this will end in blood...

Some Merkin once said Freedom is not free it has to be refreshed at times with the blood of patriots. The EU wont give up without a fight.

 

[Silent Earth]

There already is blood. What, 800 people injured? And is that hospitalized, or just 'injured'?

Anyone for or against the federalists can see that their strategy is about as bad as the NFL's...actually worse (the NFL would have to take white people on the field and beat them during the National Anthem to compete with Spain's violence).

You sir need to understand that cultural and political trends travel BOTH ways across the Atlantic and at some point your Democrats will gradually show their true colours and try to convert your country, one tiny bit at a time into something like the undemocratic, federal socialists EU
look what your socialist university lecturers are saying now
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/03/prof-calls-god-bless-america-warmongering-song.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/0...n-trumpism-narrative-white-victimization.html

 

[TexasFreedom]

You sir need to understand that cultural and political trends travel BOTH ways across the Atlantic and at some point your Democrats will gradually show their true colours and try to convert your country, one tiny bit at a time into something like the undemocratic, federal socialists EU

SE,
I'm confused... I agree 1000% with you here. Do you think I disagree? The US federal gov't is completely out of control. Ruby Ridge, the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX... we have bloody events that make Catalan look polite. In fact I don't know if the EU is further advance or if the USA is more advanced into totalitarianism. I suppose we citizens still have our weapons in the US, and we aren't as close to getting completely invaded by muslims (yet...).

Keep in mind, a friend of mine lived in Waco 20 years ago when it happened. He knew people in the Branch Davidians. Yes, they were 'odd', but they would be the first people to stop on the roadside & help you change a flat tire. Back then he called it a flat-out massacre. The Oklahoma Federal Building bombing was directly in retaliation for Waco/RR.

Things are not pretty by any means on this side of the pond.

 

[jontte]

things get uglier and uglier each day and further it goes,it pawes a path for a strong charismatic leader,who promises alot...alot...ring a bell yet???

 

[Silent Earth]

SE,
I'm confused... I agree 1000% with you here. Do you think I disagree? The US federal gov't is completely out of control. Ruby Ridge, the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX... we have bloody events that make Catalan look polite. In fact I don't know if the EU is further advance or if the USA is more advanced into totalitarianism. I suppose we citizens still have our weapons in the US, and we aren't as close to getting completely invaded by muslims (yet...).

Keep in mind, a friend of mine lived in Waco 20 years ago when it happened. He knew people in the Branch Davidians. Yes, they were 'odd', but they would be the first people to stop on the roadside & help you change a flat tire. Back then he called it a flat-out massacre. The Oklahoma Federal Building bombing was directly in retaliation for Waco/RR.

Things are not pretty by any means on this side of the pond.

No sir I know we are reading from the same page, I was just pointing out that the crap we invent often travels to the land of the free and very often no one realises until its to late thst its a bad thing.

You still ( for now) have one advantage over your Catalan cousins, if things get hairy you can relocate without interference to another state, over here the EU is muting suggestions that people classed as dissidents be forbidden from travelling and living in other member countries. One daft example is the UK if say you wanted to go to France or Germany to watch a soccer match and a Police officer at the airport or ferry terminal took a dislike to you ( Think TSA) he can simply decided to seize your passport on the grounds you MAY be a trouble maker. The EU could simply class the Catalan independence activists as " Potential Extremists" and stop them from travelling anywhere.

 

[jontte]

and they prolly will.
EUSSR most likely thought they had ridden one storm when Brexit was done,now they have Catalonians to think about...and the burocrats in Brussels are scared.

 

[TexasFreedom]

SE, Jontte,
Agreed. I'm not sure which side of the pond invents new versions of communism faster. We have Californistan and New York.

And so true about the UK. If they leave, if Catalan follows, who else? Eventually the leaches won't have blood to suck. To compensate they'll add the ever-friendly Turkey?

One question, how much debt does the EU have? First, as just the EU. Then the individual nations. How does it compare relatively to our $20T debt (or $100T, depends on how you add it)?

 

[jontte]

SE might know how much,I only know it's alot..Turkey??
okay friends how,where and how fast do I get the green card?? and some land to settle,you know,me+dog

 

[TexasFreedom]

SE might know how much,I only know it's alot..Turkey??
okay friends how,where and how fast do I get the green card?? and some land to settle,you know,me+dog

Jontte! Hang on now. You see millions of terrorist invade your continent and are ok. But Turkey joining the EU, and you're ready to leave? But you're in the UK, you're already leaving the EU?

is Turkey with their psycho muslim leader that bad?

You're a little late trying to come over.... should have done it a couple of years ago when Obama was around... but you'd need to be a minority and muslim...

 

[jontte]

Turkey with that melon salesman as president is BAD...oh, I keep my eyes open all the time and it
isn't that bad here in Finland yet,thanks to our crappy weather and reputation of being dark and gloomy people
who don't speak to strangers

I am minority,bye the way,belong to the little minority of swedish speakers, around 5%,so one out of two ain't bad (loosley borrowing from that Meatloaf song)

 

[TexasFreedom]

Jontte,

I still don't get it. Millions of muslim men randomly distributed across the continent. They rape women at will with no consequences. They suck welfare programs. They defecate in public parks. They riot when they don't get what they want. That is what Europe has right now. And this is in every town across Europe.

I'm just added another million or so muslims concentrated in one country at the opposite end. Is that really worse than what is going on right now?

 

[jontte]

it is what it is,just have to make do,but to add Turkey to this mess would be a gigantic disaster...
what is funny with my lot,we are a very patient people,but when you push enough...that's what my dad used to say and that's what my DI said
to our sarge who complained to him that we bitch and moan too much;let them do that,'cause when they are silent,turn away and leave...

I don't like it at all having those towel heads here,they are nothing but leeches one of the reasons I prep,by the way my friend.

 

[Silent Earth]

SE, Jontte,
Agreed. I'm not sure which side of the pond invents new versions of communism faster. We have Californistan and New York.

And so true about the UK. If they leave, if Catalan follows, who else? Eventually the leaches won't have blood to suck. To compensate they'll add the ever-friendly Turkey?

One question, how much debt does the EU have? First, as just the EU. Then the individual nations. How does it compare relatively to our $20T debt (or $100T, depends on how you add it)?

We have Londonabad and Birmingistan

Catalonia first then the Basques in Northern Spain and Southern France wanting freedom, Then the Roma in the east, the Sicilians and of course the Scots, And even within Scotland the oil and fish rich Orkneys, Shetlands and Western Isles are muting independence from Scotland. Many Welsh and Irish want out of the UK.

"""One question, how much debt does the EU have? First, as just the EU. """ HAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..........Intake of breath...... HA HA HA HA HA................ How much debt have the EU THATS A GOOD ONE because NO ONE KNOWS because the EU has not had its accounts signed off for over 25 years by its OWN accountants. FRAUD is MASSIVE in the EU as an example the money paid the Greek farmers for growing Olives that they claim they have is actually 20 times more than the entire land area of Greece. The EU has built ultra modern FREEWAYS in places like Poland and Romania that sweep elegantly from ...... An empty field to an empty field.
The EU funded a multi million pound underground rail system in Greece but did not fit in any ticket machines or barriers for decades. We have barrels of Virgin Olive oil that are TOXIC, We have Froggie farmers being paid MILLIONS each month NOT to grow vines for wine. But its not all bad the EU Parliament has just awarded itself a massive wage rise to go with their free travel in limosines, Tax free Members only supermakets ( like the soviet leaders did) VIP jets for their own use. They even move the Pariament between two different cities every couples of months costing tens of millions at a time.

I can only guess but you are 325 million people living WAY beyond your means and Europe is 650 million people living way beyond their means, But in many countries unemployment is over 55% among the 18 to 30s, pensions have been cut by 80% in parts of Greece. Europe is bankrupt but they just keep going back to the member states and demanding block payments.

How much debt has the EU is the queston that would probably trigger the EUs collapse if the truth came out.

 

[Silent Earth]

Jontte,

I still don't get it. Millions of muslim men randomly distributed across the continent. They rape women at will with no consequences. They suck welfare programs. They defecate in public parks. They riot when they don't get what they want. That is what Europe has right now. And this is in every town across Europe.

I'm just added another million or so muslims concentrated in one country at the opposite end. Is that really worse than what is going on right now?

It is normal socialist / marxist doctrine to keep the masses hungry and compliant by always have far more people than jobs or houses that way the peasants never revolt so long as the state keeps a roof over their heads and basic food in their bellies, it keeps WAGES down and products CHEAPER to sell to other places like the US Japan etc And they use the inter race hostility to scapegoat the EUs own failures whilst the ruling elite live like gods.

 

[Silent Earth]

it is what it is,just have to make do,but to add Turkey to this mess would be a gigantic disaster...
what is funny with my lot,we are a very patient people,but when you push enough...that's what my dad used to say and that's what my DI said
to our sarge who complained to him that we bitch and moan too much;let them do that,'cause when they are silent,turn away and leave...

I don't like it at all having those towel heads here,they are nothing but leeches one of the reasons I prep,by the way my friend.

Hark at him from Finland when Swedish MEPs are saying the government of Finland should be shared between Sweden and the EU!!!!

 

[Silent Earth]

Read this and weep
https://www.debtclocks.eu/public-debt-and-budget-deficits-comparison-of-the-eu-member-states.html

 

[Silent Earth]

**** its turning nasty in Barcelona, I pray it does not escalate we dont need more violence, let the violence go away.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-Felipe-VI-condemns-Catalan-authorities.html

 

[jontte]

if the Swede MEP's are saying that?? have only one answer to them and it's a middle finger

 

[Silent Earth]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/862249/catalonia-independence-italy-lombardy-venice-referendum

And so it begins

 

[Silent Earth]

Dont say I did not warn you that the Spanish / EU hate democracy
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...army-Spain-troops-Barcelona-Carles-Puigdemont

 

[jontte]

this will end in alot of blood,more than what the Spanish police already spilled on the streets of Barcelona..
one day,someone will emerge and speak of glory,independance,power.....again....

 

[Maverick]

Panicked Brussels issue Catalonia shock ULTIMATUM: ‘If you quit Spain, you quit EU!’

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/862293/catalonia-referendum-independence-european-union-eu