Catalan independence?
- Thread starter TexasFreedom
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Best defence aginst Cyber attacks is pre internet technology. Off line no connection . Im sure alot of old systems are left in place as a backup .
Ever notice how obsessed Homing Pigeon keepers become .
What we find in Catalonia is how the nationalist parties have taken over the legal institutions and have been brainwashing the population for forty years saying they are better than the rest of the Spanish. They are masters in the fake news.
Some very interesting photo comparisons. Since we do not get much news coverage on Spain's political / social situations, I will look forward to more of your posts.
I too would like to see updates from Spain. Since the big news about Catalan trying to separate ended, we've not heard anything.
I think there was also an area in Italy that was trying to separate, what happened there?
I think there was also an area in Italy that was trying to separate, what happened there?
I will try to put more information. I recognize that I can not be totally objective in this matter since as a Spanish citizen, I am involved. What I want to tell you is that the Catalan nationalist movement emerged in a rich area where people who did not speak Catalan and all those Spanish citizens who came from other areas of Spain were looked down with contempt. We are talking about a region where many want independence because they feel the rich, but yes, they do not want to give up the Spanish market.
Today in Catalonia there are many descendants of emigrants from the rest of Spain who are the most indepent since they have brainwashed after 40 years of educational system in the hands of the regional government that has manipulated education as wanted. It may seem incredible, but in Catalonia schools are studied only in Catalan and parents have no option to educate their children in Spanish, only a few hours if the study spanish like a foreign language, although it is assumed that Spanish is also the official language in Catalonia along with Catalan.
Imagine that you live in the United States and you can not choose to have your children educated in English. I do not want to say that your children can study in Catalan if you want that, I mean they can not choose that their children study in Spanish.
Today in Catalonia there are many descendants of emigrants from the rest of Spain who are the most indepent since they have brainwashed after 40 years of educational system in the hands of the regional government that has manipulated education as wanted. It may seem incredible, but in Catalonia schools are studied only in Catalan and parents have no option to educate their children in Spanish, only a few hours if the study spanish like a foreign language, although it is assumed that Spanish is also the official language in Catalonia along with Catalan.
Imagine that you live in the United States and you can not choose to have your children educated in English. I do not want to say that your children can study in Catalan if you want that, I mean they can not choose that their children study in Spanish.
Nowadays, if you own a store and put up a poster in Spanish and not in Catalan, the regional government will fine you for it. It is something as immoral as that and yet, Catalanism appears to the world as a victim because they have spent millions of euros in international advertising agencies.
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Thanks for that perspective on it prepspa!
You can ask what you want. It is a complex thing, is not white or black, there is a lot of grey.
Now I got to ask, did this area speak Spanish in the past or was this area a non-Spanish speaking area all along? I am trying to understand how a portion of Spain could not speak Spanish and how this could have been happing for 40 years. Where was eh Spanish government all this time?
Correct me if I'm wrong @prepspa - As I understand it, Spain was originally multiple countries with their own languages, which are considered dialects of Spanish. Catalan was one of them, along with several others in other regions which I cannot remember the names of. Castillia was the central region of Spain, and it is Castillian Spanish that we know as "Spanish" today. (In some regions of Latin America, they don't even call it español (Spanish) but rather castellano (Castillian).) So the original language in Catalonia was Catalan, and Castillian was made the official language of the entire country when it was unified in the late 1400s. The bad blood really came in to the picture under dictator Francisco Franco, because he mandated that no other dialects be used at all in public and forbade teaching them to children. The current policies and sentiment in Catalonia is a reaction to that - not that it justifies anything, but it is an explanation.
Spain swung to the far left after 9.11 and Madrid to appease the left and Islamists hoping to prevent terrorist attacks and keep Spain out of any future conflicts . Ofcourse the swing to the left isolated a percentage of the Population .
All Catalans speak Spanish, only that for some it is their first language and for others their Manterna language is Catalan. It is much more useful in the world to speak Spanish than Catalan, which is why the regional government of Catalonia, dominated by nationalists, uses the laws to make the Catalan language compulsory. Catalan is the compulsory language in schools and it is mandatory to speak it if you want to have a public job in Catalonia, if you do not want to be a second class citizen in Catalonia you have to speak Catalan and even better if you are a nationalist.
Where has the Spanish government been these forty years? The constitution guarantees that all regions have their own government, but that is not the problem. The problem is that the Spanish electoral law benefits the parties that have all their votes concentrated in one region and that means that if the nationalists of Catalonia have 500,000 votes in Catalonia and there is another party that has 500,000 divided into all of Spain, the nationalists of Catalonia have many more congressmen in the Congress of Spain. The nationalists of Catalonia have been decisive for forty years to form a government in Spain and blackmailing the Spanish government with their strength. The Spanish government has been forty years without daring to face the nationalists.
Being fair Catalan is not a dialect of Spanish, but it is a dialect of Latin just as Castilian (Spanish) is another dialect of Latin. Spanish, Catalan, Portuguese, French, etc., are sister languages.
What you say that Spain is the union of several countries is true, although it should be said that more than countries were crowns: Kingdom of Castile-Kingdom of Navarre-Kingdom of Granada and Crown of Aragon, where Catalonia was included.
The dictatorship of Franco prohibited the use of Catalan in the administration and public school. At that time it was not illegal to speak Catalan or teach Catalan in private schools. It was something very close to what the Catalan nationalist governments do today only on the contrary.
Why does a politician have to decide what language to use? If the entire population wants to speak Catalan, do so, if the population wants to speak in Spanish, do so, if 50% want to speak in Catalan and the other 50% in Spanish, do so. What can not be done is to tell children in schools that if they want to succeed in life they have to have Catalan as their mother tongue and that Spanish is a language of fascist oppressors. You should know that fifty years ago Catalan was the mother tongue of only 50% of the population and now more and more parents speak to their children only in Catalan because they have been brainwashed and every time in Catalonia people speak Spanish of worse quality and because they learn it watching television channels that are broadcast in Spanish from Madrid. The language of the minority has been imposed on the majority by law. I like that my children can learn Catalan too, but I certainly do not want them to lose their roots and I do not want to be ridiculed by a nationalist master for having Spanish names. I don´t want to feel foreing or second class citizen in a part o Spain
Living in a dictatorship like Franco's was disgusting, the problem is that the Franco dictatorship, which ended almost fifty years ago, continues to serve the nationalists of Catalonia as an alibi for their political purposes of population control.
One more thing. Catalan nationalism predates Franco's dictatorship, it can be started around the 90s of the 19th century. During the Spanish Civil War, the nationalists of Catalonia fought with the side of the Republic, but in reality they were a cancer for the Republic and fled Franco's troops whenever they could. Catalanists often tell in the foreign press that Catalonia was the region that fought the most against Franco, when in fact it was conquered long before Madrid, which fought until the end.
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It is a way of seeing it but things are never white or black, there are grays. Actually I do not agree with Spain turning to the extreme left in 9-11 to appease the Islamists and keep in mind that the hardest attack the West has suffered, after 9-11, Spain suffered the 3- 11 of 2004.
In Spain we have forty years of PSOE government (Socialists in origin but today similar to the Democratic Party) and the PP (similar to the Republican Party).
What we do not know is what the future is, because Catalan nationalism dislocates all Spanish politics.
@prepspa
Thanks for the additional info. Since this is a topic I know nothing about, I will keep my opinions to myself. Please feel free to continue posting on this subject or any other. My ignorance is not a reason to be silent.
So what is it you feel is the most likely reason to prep and how will you approach this plan?
Thanks for the additional info. Since this is a topic I know nothing about, I will keep my opinions to myself. Please feel free to continue posting on this subject or any other. My ignorance is not a reason to be silent.
So what is it you feel is the most likely reason to prep and how will you approach this plan?
Thank you for the information. I guess I learned one perspective on the issue from a particular Spanish professor I had, but I always enjoy learning more. I definitely agree that politicians shouldn't be the ones telling people what language to speak or teach to their children, and people should not be ridiculed based on the language they speak. Unfortunately it sounds like y'all have a lot of issues to overcome with the division between Catalonia and the rest of Spain. I just hope everything can be resolved peacefully and productively, though it sounds like it will take a long time.
I prepare myself because it is impossible to predict the future. I do not think society will go bankrupt tomorrow. The social system is strong and has survived for centuries, but the average life of a Spaniard is 82.83 years. Think how many things have happened in the world in the last 82.83 years and now think of the things that can happen to a Spaniard born now in the next 82.83 in a world where oil is running out.
Edit: In the US, life expectancy is 78.69 years or at least that's Wikipedia. I'm sure there are people who have just asked him.
