Catalan independence?

[TexasFreedom]

Panicked Brussels issue Catalonia shock ULTIMATUM: ‘If you quit Spain, you quit EU!’

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/862293/catalonia-referendum-independence-european-union-eu

Mav,
I saw that the day of the election, no surprise. But I think the EU is setting themselves up for an even greater fall. They alienated Britain. Now Catalan. Several other small areas are getting ready for their own independence votes. All these little areas can form their own BEU (Better European Union). Trade among themselves. They can easily pass laws to distinguish the BEU from the EU. BEU bans the muslim invaders and deports them to Antarctica immediately. BEU has limited overlord taxes and power. BEU allows gun ownership and even encourages it among citizens. Ah, here's the best one. The BEU sells gasoline at slightly higher prices than the US! And for travel, if the EU blocks BEU borders, then that can work both ways with hefty tolls. And the BEU can offer other EU countries to switch teams. Competition is a wonderful thing.

The EU think they have all the cards. They're going to quickly find out their pair of 2's won't go very far. But does anyone think the EU will let things go this way without a fight?

 

[Maverick]

Mav,
I saw that the day of the election, no surprise. But I think the EU is setting themselves up for an even greater fall. They alienated Britain. Now Catalan. Several other small areas are getting ready for their own independence votes. All these little areas can form their own BEU (Better European Union). Trade among themselves. They can easily pass laws to distinguish the BEU from the EU. BEU bans the muslim invaders and deports them to Antarctica immediately. BEU has limited overlord taxes and power. BEU allows gun ownership and even encourages it among citizens. Ah, here's the best one. The BEU sells gasoline at slightly higher prices than the US! And for travel, if the EU blocks BEU borders, then that can work both ways with hefty tolls. And the BEU can offer other EU countries to switch teams. Competition is a wonderful thing.

The EU think they have all the cards. They're going to quickly find out their pair of 2's won't go very far. But does anyone think the EU will let things go this way without a fight?

Most of these break off states will end up in the similar situation as Taiwan, the EU will request better trade deals with it's trading partners not to recognize these break-away regions. We shall see hopefully with no blood regardless!

 

[jontte]

TF,we can't pollute antartica,it's way too beautiful and pristine place
well monday comes and we might hear what Catalonia does.

 

[Silent Earth]

We dont want ANY FEDERAL states in Europe, better or otherwise . Seen how the US Feds and the EU feds treat the states they can shove their federal nightmare.

 

[Silent Earth]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...talan-independence-day-Brexit-news-map-Europe

More Folks in europe want to be free from the evil of Federalism.

 

[TexasFreedom]

TF,we can't pollute antartica,it's way too beautiful and pristine place

Great point. Let's comprise. You'll want to make sure these thugs don't take anything with them to Antarctica, so strip search them (and don't give them any clothes back). Then drop them off a mile from the beach (water side or land side? doesn't matter after an hour), and let nature take it's course.

Reality is this, send the first plane load. Video it & release the video to the public. Then you can add a $1000 exit tax for every person wanting out of the country! Not only will zero gov't money be spent hunting down these illegals, you can force a tax on them to 'allow' them to leave. Think of it similar to Trump saying Mexico will pay for the border wall. You might need a plane load once a year to remind them, but it'll be minimal effort after the first are shown as muslim-popsicles.

SE, I completely understand distrust at the federal level. You can also have each individual country (UK, Catalan...) negotiate with each other to do this. But they need to stay unified otherwise the EU will separate each of them & conquer each in isolation.

 

[TexasFreedom]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/...&gwh=CBC47D57CF7AB03AED98491383F59091&gwt=pay

It's been a couple of weeks of seeing who blinks first. Spain demanded Catalan sit down at the table based on no discussion of independence. Catalan demands Spain sit down at the table with independence as a final option. Both sides include an "OR ELSE" in their demands.

No actions until today. Spain now is 'starting the process' of removing all leaders of Catalan from power. They quote a never-used clause of the Spanish Constitution. Catalan has not responded.

One part that will be interesting is that Catalan has shed no blood, but Spain has shown to hesitation in drawing blood (injuring over 800 trying to stop the election, from throwing people down stairs, shooting with rubber bullets, etc). The ball is now in Catalan's court. Will they prepare to defend their leadership? With force? Neither side really wants to shed blood, to a degree they are all 'fellow spaniards'. But the same could be said of the US Civil War, by-and-far the most blood US war ever. What has mankind learned in 150 years?

Strategically, Catalan has the easier position of simply defending an existing border while Spain has to 'invade' while not looking MORE brutal to fellow Europeans. Catalan's challenge will be keeping economic relations with the rest of the EU...

 

[Silent Earth]

Looks like Espana is moving towards civil war, The Catalans are furious at what they see as a facist government denying them their democratic wishes. I hope the Ctalans get their freedom, then the Basques, Then the Scots and then the Southern states.

 

[TexasFreedom]

SE,

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/fears-violence-tens-thousands-take-11383827

450k people in Barcelona alone protested the federal actions today. One city, almost 1/2 million people. Watch the video, it is a PEACEFUL protest. I have been really impressed at how peaceful these protests have been (I've seen too many violent ones here in the US I guess). This was the reply from Catalan to Spain: "You're p*ssing us off, and we are a united people against an overbearing federal gov't. You cannot over power a united people in their own nation. Move at your own risk." That is what I take away from a 1/2 million people protest in a city of only 3 million people... So 1 in 6 people were out protesting (take out children and the elderly and people who had to work and that's a substantial percentage).

 

[Silent Earth]

I'm genuinely afraid because the Spanish are vicious fighters and very bloody minded grudge holders, if this turns into another civil war it will make the Yugoslavian war look like a pillow fight and just like last time it will tear Europe apart as Germany and the EU side with the Spanish government.

 

[Silent Earth]

And its spreading.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...gain-power-Rome-like-Catalonia-Roberto-Maroni

 

[TexasFreedom]

Bad news for the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...gain-power-Rome-like-Catalonia-Roberto-Maroni

It looks like 2 regions of Italy are wanting elections to separate from the rest of Italy. And these 2 strong regions are 30% of Italy's GDP.

Regions that are getting bled financially are tired of supporting freeloaders. And maybe of gov't that prefer muslim rapists over their own citizens? The UK and Catalan have emboldened a number of other regions.

 

[Silent Earth]

YUP even the Daily Mail is covering it
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ichest-regions-hold-autonomy-referendums.html

 

[TexasFreedom]

SE, good find!

Read the article. Both regions of Italy had their votes on Sunday & both had 90% in favor of independence from Italy. And apparently these were 'legal' votes.

One region sends 54billion euros more to Rome than they get back and the smaller region sends 15.5billion Euros more than they get back. 25% of Italy's population and they generate 30% of GDP.

It will get interesting... more interesting.

 

[Silent Earth]

More Italians are wanting more freedom now.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...magna-Puglia-independence-autonomy-referendum

 

[TexasFreedom]

Wow. So it looks like Italy will end up looking like the former Yugoslavia, out of one come a dozen.

Here's another article, it looks like Catalan's 'president' and 'vice president' are playing good-politician and bad-politician. The VP came out & said that Spain's actions will mean they have no choice but to declare independence. He made it clear that this is his statement and not from the president or the whole region. Interesting...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5016881/Catalan-separatist-leader-snubs-Spanish-Senate.html

 

[Silent Earth]

If the EUSSR is not careful its going to end up having MULTIPLE insurgencies / conflicts going on.

 

[TexasFreedom]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spain-poised-roll-back-catalonias-regional-autonomy-022637762.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5023203/Catalonia-explode-violence-Madrid-imposes-rule.html

Let the fireworks begin. Catalan, seeing that Spain refuses to sit down & negotiate, have declared independence. This may (err... will) get bloody.

 

[Silent Earth]

The US and UK have already REFUSED to recognise the Catalans, Two Unions who despise REAL democracy.

 

[TexasFreedom]

The US and UK have already REFUSED to recognise the Catalans, Two Unions who despise REAL democracy.

I agree with that. I'll add it's also 2 unions wanting bonus points from the EU. The UK wants favorable relations as they negotiate their exit (tariffs, etc). The US has more to gain from relations with all of the EU than just Catalan. So maybe the wrong choice for the right reasons? Don't get me wrong, I think Catalan deserves independence. But they are the small potato and shouldn't expect favors going against the EU.

I'd put in the same category as Trump supporting Doug Strange in the Alabama Rep primary over Judge Moore. Moore would be more help if elected, but Trump supported Strange to earn points with the Rep Senate. But then Trump didn't go out of his way to support Strange (and kept his fingers crossed that Moore would win).

 

[DrHenley]

Or why we recognize Communist China and not the Republic of China in Taiwan, even though our political interests are much more aligned with Taiwan and we are sworn to protect Taiwan from Mainland China.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

 

[Silent Earth]

Nuff Said!

 

[jontte]

have been thinking about this and have also talked with my bro about this Catalan-vote;
the guy who instigated all this,mr Puidgemont,who set this in motion,knew that he had a snowballs chance in hell to get someone to recognice Catalonia as an independent nation.
not ALL Catalans wan't to leave Spain,that's a fact..not the majority.
and now,when shtf the brave leader mr Puidgemont runs to Belgium and leaves the **** behind,is that how a leader does?? now he hides behind the EUSSR's back and whines.
sure Madrid did over react,that's prolly the spanish way of doing business...oh,by the way does anyone know the lyrics to the Spanish natinal anthem??

 

[DrHenley]

oh,by the way does anyone know the lyrics to the Spanish natinal anthem??

Officially?

Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm
Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm
etcetera etcetera etcetera.

 

[jontte]

yup it's a nice country,but they don't have any lyrics as they don't agree in what "language" to sing it

 

[Silent Earth]

have been thinking about this and have also talked with my bro about this Catalan-vote;
the guy who instigated all this,mr Puidgemont,who set this in motion,knew that he had a snowballs chance in hell to get someone to recognice Catalonia as an independent nation.
not ALL Catalans wan't to leave Spain,that's a fact..not the majority.
and now,when shtf the brave leader mr Puidgemont runs to Belgium and leaves the **** behind,is that how a leader does?? now he hides behind the EUSSR's back and whines.
sure Madrid did over react,that's prolly the spanish way of doing business...oh,by the way does anyone know the lyrics to the Spanish natinal anthem??

Ah BUT Mon Ami many folks in 13 former Colonies of the UK thought EXACTLY the same " How the Fook can we beat the British ?" But Liberty, Freedom and the right to self determination is a powerful force especially when those you are fighting dont want to be there when they could be at home?

 

[Silent Earth]

Aha I told you so

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...talonia-independence-Macron-thousands-protest

 

[TexasFreedom]

Looks like the 'president' of Catalan has surrendered to Belgian police. Trying to sort out if he's returned to spain, or how to treat/charge him.

 

[jontte]

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/11/11/inenglish/1510395422_468026.html?d_externo_rsoc=FB_CM_EN&h=ATMayEB1CzAZCYmzz4CSBkZ1dtk8_rQqaH-43trwRIJ2x65qKsSiIVY0ljoJLbv384cjj1GP_iaoNWMxcsY5TOdpfaquuVC7veye1Tp7QmB1HsO-fWwErb-S13oMD-TkM-3DITZi


looks like the cave troll from Kremlin was there again...

 

[Psalm7]

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/11/11/inenglish/1510395422_468026.html?d_externo_rsoc=FB_CM_EN&h=ATMayEB1CzAZCYmzz4CSBkZ1dtk8_rQqaH-43trwRIJ2x65qKsSiIVY0ljoJLbv384cjj1GP_iaoNWMxcsY5TOdpfaquuVC7veye1Tp7QmB1HsO-fWwErb-S13oMD-TkM-3DITZi


looks like the cave troll from Kremlin was there again...

I could only read part of it because of all the ad's and pop up's . Is that the Danish,Russian Guy that said He was starting a Prepper group in the Philippines that showed up on this site few years ago ?