F350 with 7.3l Powerstroke … issues

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OldSchool

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I know there’s knowledgeable folks here, so…. Before I go elsewhere seeking advice, here’s the deal:

The truck hasn’t been on the road for few years, but I’ve kept it running. Starting it, letting it warm up, move it around a bit…

It’s been fine until last time(s) starting it. It fires like normal, like it wants to take off running, then (.5 seconds later) the check engine light comes on and it falls on it’s face - missing, barely running, won’t rev up. It’s not throwing any codes, except for a BS P1111 - which is a no codes stored message. Any ideas what to check? Where to start looking for the problem?
 
you may have lost an injector o ring , the pressure drop won't let the injectors build enough pressure to fire , but it isn't enough to throw a code
 
or the cam sensor, it needs to be up to temperature to show the cam sensor code, I think, the powerstroke system is a bit of a mix of obd 2 and J1399 (hd, the number may be off)
 
this is a trouble shooting proceedure that I wrote for the navistar 466, your engine is a navistar 446 with perhaps a different software set , the mechanical checks are the same.

DTE 466 trouble shoot no start





I just finished a 466E , hard start/ no start chase.
It all seems crystal clear NOW.
Recap.
truck showed up operator said it wouldn't start without a shot of either,
engine cranked over fast, and it would fire up after it started to spin a bit faster on either.
I did all the usual checks , ECM power, Key power, (load tested and independent power source)
Once in a while the truck would fire up, adding to the confusion.
Check for fuel pressure at the filter outlet port while cranking ,I believe 35psi is minimum, I had 55-60.

I started the HUEI (this system uses boosted lube oil pressure to provide injection power instead of the cam shaft like you would see in a electronic unit injector system) specific testing by disconnecting the ICP sensor (injection pressure control).
this test lets the high pressure oil pump run wide open, so if the engine starts kill it immediately.
Engine start at unplugged IPC can indicate ICP or harness fault. (harness fault may be more common on later design engines due to the jumper harness in the valve cover.
IF still no start the next test would be to check for power and ground at the IPR, injection pressure regulator valve, it you have power and a ground, you can either buy a "break out" harness from Navistar or a Bosch injection dealer or you can slip a small spread out cotter pin in between the wires and the weather pack seal (be careful not to short things out and not wreck the seal or wire.
The jumper allows you to check voltage at key on, cranking and you can check the ground signal from the ecm by powering the multimeter from the starter relay hot side while key on and while cranking.
The breakout harness or a IPR pig tail will let you put 12V power and ground to the IPR. Again this if full pump, if the engine fires kill it.
An engine start with independent power to IPC points to probable ECM signal issues either in the harness or the ecm its self.
There is an oil temp sensor just above the HPOP (high pressure oil pump), un plug and loosen this sensor, oil should seep out of the threads, this is the oil reservoir for the HPOP. no oil here would lead to lube oil system checks, but that would be for a NO start scenario.
Next test is High pressure oil rail while cranking, for this you need a -6 jic run tee the tee goes into the high pressure line where it enters the oil rail on the head, a -6 jic cap is nice here so you can pop the cap on the rail fitting while you hook the tee up to the HPOP (high pressure oil pump) line.



You need a 4-5000 psi gage for the HPO rail test, check your rail pressure while cranking it needs to be around 875 I think to fire, I had about 700 ish most of the time,(I did find a o ring seep at the rail inlet, fixing this led to cold start after a fairly long crank.)
Probably at this time if you can either pull start the truck or either fire it you will find that you get at least 2-3000psi at throttle snap, if so the HPOP and regulator are probably fine.

Now if some idiot didn't order a truck with half the engine in the cab, pull the valve cover/ intake manifold (early engine) be careful of the injection harness pass through, it needs to be unclipped from the out side (make sure you mark the orientation).
have someone crank the engine, oil will probably flow from at least one of the injector bases.

pull said injector. Try not to laugh or cry at the obvious designed break down point.
the top oil o ring has a little metal backup ring,like a little piston compression ring complete with gap, a rubber or poly backup ring and an o ring, by this time the backup ring will have pushed into the gap and cut it's self, once this cut is big enough the o ring starts to cut, once it cuts you get hard start / no start.
Order 6 sets of injector o rings, the IH dealer was 5 x as expensive as the Bosch dealer. the bosh guy also sent a set of stainless compression seals to replace the copper ones in the o ring set.

Do all six injectors unless you really need to patch it and go, I found back up ring damage on all 5 of the others, and 1 was starting to have o ring failure.

there is a spiral retaining ring that is supposed to eliminate this problem.
spiral snap ring Hercules pt. no. WH-150 (from the net)
I couldn't find these in time, the guy needed his truck..
On my own engine I would try double rubber/poly backup rings or try to find a thicker backup ring to eliminate the gap ring. the second ring was a designed harder durometer one piece ring, the top ring could be made like this too.

This system is very similar to some 444E and ford /Navistar 7.3 systems.
 
I was hoping to hear from you Tirediron. I figured you have a clue.

I’ve actually been worried about the turbo, it’s been running weak for what it is. It’s all original, no mods whatsoever, with 155k miles.

Was my dad’s truck. He bought it second hand with (I’m guessing) 30k miles and it’s still in great overall condition. I got it with 55k on the odometer. The truck has some good stories to tell. It’s time to see that it lives on… making more stories.

An alternator issue developed form sitting. It doesn’t charge. But it’s been fine for months since that issue developed, from sitting I suppose. I’ve wondered it that has something to do with it ??
 
Low voltage can cause meyhem on this system, charge the batteries, and clean the connections really well,
 
this could be as simple as a clogged fuel filter if the truck has pretty old fuel in it, after battery voltage, low pressure fuel deliver should prolly be next
 
Low voltage can cause meyhem on this system, charge the batteries, and clean the connections really well,
I keep on top of that. Has new batteries, connections are as good as they get.

I’ve been worried about the age of fuel. Oddly enough or by coincidence… before the “issue” developed I disconnected one battery to charge them independently. Then… next time starting it - presto - ran like ****.

Fuel? It’s old. Filters? They should be good. I’m good with regular maintenance.
 
try disconnecting both batteries for at least 5 minutes and the re connect them, wait another 5 minutes ad see if it smartened up
 
try disconnecting both batteries for at least 5 minutes and the re connect them, wait another 5 minutes ad see if it smartened up
I did that, for 24 hours.

Did that to clear the engine light ****.

Same issues next time I started it, but the engine light didn’t come, at least not at first.

Now I’m wondering if it could be as simple as a fuel filter. They go bad with age… just like the rest of us. lol
 
For sure. I own Ford and Chevy gassers but I always enjoy a good light-hearted but committed Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge bashing
I’ve had some great gasser Fords, and they’ve sounded great.

An old friend, and a mopar nut (lol) once said something like: Fords sound great, but they can’t get off the porch to piss with the big dogs.
 
A gearheads thread would be great here, and it’s in my blood.

Meanwhile… any hopes that my 7.3 just has a deteriorated fuel filter would be appreciated.

I’ll let ya know tomorrow.
 
A gearheads thread would be great here, and it’s in my blood.

Meanwhile… any hopes that my 7.3 just has a deteriorated fuel filter would be appreciated.

I’ll let ya know tomorrow.
there is a good chance, fuel isn't what it used to be
 
Fuel that sits can make a waxy coating on the fuel filter and clog it completely up, just as high wax content oil like Castrol, STP, and others that sits for a long time can cause an oil filter collapse. If you leave your engine sitting un run for more than 6 months it needs fresh oil once the oil has been run through hot and cold cycles.

It got POED because it saw you fooling with the Ford.
 

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