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I'm not completely ignorant about guns, I just don't like them. A lot of my friends and family do own guns and I have fired a variety of guns on different occasions but I hated most of them. I think part of it is that I have short arms and small hands which makes them difficult for me to handle.
I do have a question though about biometric safes - it seems they would require electricity to operate? So they would be useful for everyday but less so in a worse situation (which is when one would more likely need it?) Just a thought.
 
Batteries. It's less fancy than a scientific calculator.

Some guns are difficult for me to operate (.357 pistol, .44 pistol, large caliber rifles) and while I can fire them, I don't do so for pleasure.

It's a big mistake to hand someone more gun than they can handle or enjoy, to be their first experience.

I'll tell you the truth, I wouldn't want someone firing my .22 caliber pistol at me, even from a hundred yards away. I'd be beating feet and looking for cover.

I'd also be pretty mad if they hit me.

At in home, or parking lot distances? That little .22 has 10 rounds, and no recoil, you can put someone down with that. It's viable defense in my opinion.

I have a 12 gauge in the house because I can blow someone back down the stairs, blow my door off it's hinges, blow the windows out of their car, switch to the 9mm and riddle the inside of the car with bullets.

I like my home defense dramatic.
 
I have enjoyed the debate (minor one) between Kevin and SGS. I won't get into the revolver vs. semi auto but I will have to side with SGS on the gun safes. I raised two very independent and curious boys, Rule breaking was not unheard of by them. One rule they never broke and they have admitted to breaking many of the house rules, was they never touched one of our guns without permission. I went against all traditional teaching, I told the boys that ALL the guns were kept loaded. There were no safe unloaded gun in the house. Now that was not true. I also did not keep the guns in a safe or have any form of locks on them. Most of the guns were kept in the closet unloaded but a couple were on the night stand or in the night stand drawer.

Living in Arizona, I am allow to carry and I do, during all my waking hours, home or out. I also keep a loaded 20 ga, shotgun by the bed, and an AR15 in the closet. I do plan to get a cheap gun safe, simply for ease of storage, not for safety. My collection of firearms will continue to grow, so I will need better storage space. The wife really objects to surrendering any of her closet space. :D I have to maximize my storage space. Bottom line, I am not a big fan of locking down weapons, with any type of devices. I do agree and would insist any children present in the home, must be taken to the range and shown and taught proper gun safety. They need to see and understand these are not toys and once the trigger is pulled, something down range is going to get a hole in it.

Over penetration is another hot topic and highly debatable. To me, over penetration is not the real issue, missing the target is the big issue. If I hit the bad guy center mass, I really seriously doubt there will be enough energy left in the bullet to do much, if any, damage to a bystander. Now if I miss the bad guy, then no matter the caliber or bullet type, it could be a danger to bystanders. Granted bullet type and caliber due play a factor in penetration but hitting the target in the desired location plays a bigger part. Yes I know that if I hit somebody center mass with a 50 BMG, it is going through, got it, but we are talking general home / self defense. Now, 9mm, 40, 10mm, 45acp, 38spc, 380, almost any bullet type will either stop or lose enough energy to not be a major threat to bystanders, if the the shot was a center mass shot, even FMJ (Full Metal Jacket).

kate, something my wife wanted, I loaded her 9mm pistol with the first round snake load (she thinks it the first 2 rounds), this is her way to justify using force. Her concept (not mine) is the first 2 shots are to change the bad guys mind. If the bad guy continues to advance, the next shots are lethal. You can have the option of a first round snake load in several calibers. You do have to be careful with semi-auto pistols, many will not cycle with snake loads. I tested my wife's pistol, it worked with her pistol, but would not cycle mine. There are any handgun and ammunition types for every occasion and personal size. Just take your time and pick out what works best for your need.
 
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There were guns everywhere when I was a kid, here, at my folks house...

What did we care? We could just ask, and get handed a beat up .22 rifle or .410, the folks were glad to be rid of us, and if we got rid of a few racoons, so much the better.

Shoot the weathervanes and you get the switch, though. A lesson well learned lol.

5 or 6 kids, age 8 to 13 or so. Out shooting guns unsupervised. We lived.

Idiot did shoot Ritchie in the ass climbing over a barbed wire fence, but it was just a few pellets, more embarrassed than injured. We still laugh about it.
 
I have enjoyed the debate (minor one) between Kevin and SGS. I won't get into the revolver vs. semi auto but I will have to side with SGS on the gun safes. I raised two very independent and curious boys, Rule breaking was not unheard of by them. One rule they never broke and they have admitted to breaking many of the house rules, was they never touched one of our guns without permission. I went against all traditional teaching, I told the boys that ALL the guns were kept loaded. There were no safe unloaded gun in the house. Now that was not true. I also did not keep the guns in a safe or have any form of locks on them. Most of the guns were kept in the closet unloaded but a couple were on the night stand or in the night stand drawer.

Living in Arizona, I am allow to carry and I do, during all my waking hours, home or out. I also keep a loaded 20 ga, shotgun by the bed, and an AR15 in the closet. I do plan to get a cheap gun safe, simply for ease of storage, not for safety. My collection of firearms will continue to grow, so I will need better storage space. The wife really objects to surrendering any of her closet space. :D I have to maximize my storage space. Bottom line, I am not a big fan of locking down weapons, with any type of devices. I do agree and would insist any children present in the home, must be taken to the range and shown and taught proper gun safety. They need to see and understand these are not toys and once the trigger is pulled, something down range is going to get a hole in it.

Over penetration is another hot topic and highly debatable. To me, over penetration is not the real issue, missing the target is the big issue. If I hit the bad guy center mass, I really seriously doubt there will be enough energy left in the bullet to do much, if any, damage to a bystander. Now if I miss the bad guy, then no matter the caliber or bullet type, it could be a danger to bystanders. Granted bullet type and caliber due play a factor in penetration but hitting the target in the desired location plays a bigger part. Yes I know that if I hit somebody center mass with a 50 BMG, it is going through, got it, but we are talking general home / self defense. Now, 9mm, 40, 10mm, 45acp, 38spc, 380, almost any bullet type will either stop or lose enough energy to not be a major threat to bystanders, if the the shot was a center mass shot, even FMJ (Full Metal Jacket).

kate, something my wife wanted, I loaded her 9mm pistol with the first round snake load (she thinks it the first 2 rounds), this is her way to justify using force. Her concept (not mine) is the first 2 shots are to change the bad guys mind. If the bad guy continues to advance, the next shots are lethal. You can have the option of a first round snake load in several calibers. You do have to be careful with semi-auto pistols, many will not cycle with snake loads. I tested my wife's pistol, it worked with her pistol, but would not cycle mine. There are any handgun and ammunition types for every occasion and personal size. Just take your time and pick out what works best for your need.
I understand most of your points, but I still stand by the biometric gun safe.

I've said it before, as I believe that my EMS experience has twisted my values in some ways.

I've run on too many kids who were killed, maimed, and/or paralyzed by unsecured guns.

I stand by my biometric safe ideas, as I have empirical evidence.

I've taken Wal-mart Airsoft guns that fire a plastic pellet, and worked through different scenarios with a friend breaking into my house (with safety glasses and protective clothing, of course).

I don't find that a biometric safe slows me down enough to make a difference.
 
I think safety is a personal decision. We are all comfortable with different levels. I have loaded guns in several spots around the house. None are chambered, At least there is zero chance of a gun falling over and firing. I am comfortable with my choice as I have no children anywhere near. With kids around I will secure all weapons more. All I can say about it is sure, you may have grown up and survived with loaded unsecured weapons around. But it only takes one accidental firing to end a child’s life. Just not worth it for me. Again, just a personal decision.
 
Man, I respect that choice!

That's into parental rights, personal beliefs, safety and responsibility.

I'm for all those things. Anyone who chimed in and pointed out the value of responsible gun ownership, hey, I'm with you.

It's a personal choice, no issues, no argument from me.
 
We each have to do what we believe is best, now if the liberals would just quit trying to tell us we have to believe and follow what they think is best, what a wonderful world it would be.
 
We each have to do what we believe is best, now if the liberals would just quit trying to tell us we have to believe and follow what they think is best, what a wonderful world it would be.
Lol. I agree with you on throwing out the far left, but only if we get to throw out the far right at the same time. If we were left with the more moderate and sensible people somewhere in the middle we might be able to actually fix some things.
 
Lol. I agree with you on throwing out the far left, but only if we get to throw out the far right at the same time. If we were left with the more moderate and sensible people somewhere in the middle we might be able to actually fix some things.

I think for the very first time, I can agree with your post 100 percent.
 
I don't even care if they believe whatever they want to believe, as long as they don't try to tell anyone else how to think. In practice, that never seems to happen with polarized opinions so I have to agree as well.
I’m a big believer in live and let live too. I couldn’t give a rats ass about what god you worship, political party you like, or wether you like cats or dogs. (Although I’m a dog fan). I generally care about two things, one is don’t try to force your beliefs on me, and two is are you a decent person.
 
Much worse than that Rellgar. We have to give up explicitly enumerated Constitutional rights in order to utilize imaginary Constitutional rights.
I would say that it's giving up explicitly stated rights (4th amendment right to be secure from unreasonable search, 1st amendment right to free speech/press) to utilize another explicitly stated right (2nd amendment right to bear arms). But maybe I am misunderstanding you?
 
Lol. I agree with you on throwing out the far left, but only if we get to throw out the far right at the same time. If we were left with the more moderate and sensible people somewhere in the middle we might be able to actually fix some things.

I consider myself 'far right'. What does the 'far right' do to justify throwing them out? I can see tossing the far left, they're in Antifa & a leech on society. But what is the 'far right' doing? I'm talking about true conservatives, white supremists aren't 'far right'.

I’m a big believer in live and let live too. I couldn’t give a rats ass about what god you worship, political party you like, or wether you like cats or dogs. (Although I’m a dog fan). I generally care about two things, one is don’t try to force your beliefs on me, and two is are you a decent person.

That's funny. I don't care if someone is a decent person. What they do on their property is their choice as long as it doesn't harm others. I think perverts should be kept away from children, but that goes with not harming others.

I would say that it's giving up explicitly stated rights (4th amendment right to be secure from unreasonable search, 1st amendment right to free speech/press) to utilize another explicitly stated right (2nd amendment right to bear arms). But maybe I am misunderstanding you?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. You think that my being armed impedes your 1st & 4th amendment rights? How? I've never used a gun to shut someone up or to go through their stuff. I would argue that people being armed strengthens their 1st & 4th amendment rights.
 
I consider myself 'far right'. What does the 'far right' do to justify throwing them out? I can see tossing the far left, they're in Antifa & a leech on society. But what is the 'far right' doing? I'm talking about true conservatives, white supremists aren't 'far right'.



That's funny. I don't care if someone is a decent person. What they do on their property is their choice as long as it doesn't harm others. I think perverts should be kept away from children, but that goes with not harming others.



Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. You think that my being armed impedes your 1st & 4th amendment rights? How? I've never used a gun to shut someone up or to go through their stuff. I would argue that people being armed strengthens their 1st & 4th amendment rights.
I was referring back to this post about giving up rights and what I thought it meant.
So now one has to give up one or two other constitutional rights in order to utilize a third constitutional right? When have we the people had enough?
Based on the discussion at that point, I was thinking it was referencing the idea that we would have to allow them to review our social media profiles and search history (1st/4th amendment) to be allowed to purchase firearms (2nd amendment). So I guess I did misunderstand the more recent post and maybe the original one as well.
 
there are certain states,Cali,,,NY,,,,,Illinois and there are a few others that if you are a gun owner you just need to stay out of,,,,Arkansas is pro 2nd amendment so I have no plans to leave this state,,,,,,,what the voters in the aforementioned states allow to become law is their problem not mine
 
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear to those proposing such laws?

Shall not infringe on owning Muskets. That is the liberal take on the 2nd. The Founders never intended for us to own those scary black semiautomatic rifles, just muskets.
 
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