Headstones

[Terri9630]

I know a couple, used to be friends whos 3 boys are all named John. The dads name is John Will then there's John Drew, John Cameron and John Casey. The boys go by their middle names.

 

[backlash]

An old joke,
A woman named all of her 8 kids Sam. Someone asked her how she call one specific kid. She said she called them by their last name.

 

[Weedygarden]

It occurred to me that I could find more information for each of these men on Ancestry. I did a search today for Lonnie Walker. There is probably more for him. These are some of the things I found for him.
Click on the images to see them enlarged.
Probate for Lonnie Walker by his parents. It looks like they are seeking a settlement for his death.

1910 census showing Lonnie and his family. The information at the top is often useful, and sometimes neighbors listed are relatives. I did a snip for a closeup to see his family below.

Lonnie's name is mispelled. This is really not uncommon to see. (One of my great grandmothers was a Kucera, and on a census record she is listed as Coochery. She probably did not speak English and the recorder did not speak Czech.)

 

[Peanut]

Lots of new information there @Weedygarden very interesting. Some anecdotal information for you.

I knew Marshall Walker who is listed as Lonnie T. Walker's brother on the 1910 census. He was an old man, me-a little kid. He owned a little country store about 200 yards from his brothers grave. I remember my grandfather buying me ice cream there. We had to drive by that store when grandpa went to his own brothers house.

Also on that census is a man named John Moore with a son named Coleman Moore. I remember where Mr. Coleman's store was located, it eventually became a voting precinct (irony, muffled laughter). They were somehow related to one of my great-great grandfathers. @Sentry18 My grandfather tells the story he heard as a child of how John Moore and one of his two brothers robbed the bank in Berry Alabama sometime in the 1880's. They got away with it, didn't get caught. They rolled the safe into a wagon and made their get away with a team of mules they had stolen.

The funny part... they blew the door off the safe with dynamite. There was no gold or silver in the safe, just mortgages and other papers which were badly burned. I saw that old safe with the door hanging by one hinge when I was a kid. My grandpa took me there and showed it to me. It was down in the woods in a fairly large ditch, partly covered by sand.

The really funny part... The county bought several acres of land and built a regional training facility for law enforcement out there. They built a large gun range and a training ground for K-9's. That old safe from the robbery is on the training center property!

When I saw the safe it was in a ditch. I'm sure when they brought bulldozers out to landscape the training facility they covered up the safe if it wasn't already covered. I know they didn't find it because everyone for miles around would have heard about it. I actually drove out there a few times and watched the dozers...

When ever leo's come out and train they get lunch at the only restaurant in the area. I go there sometimes. Once when it was really crowded I shared a big table with several of the Leo's.
I asked "Are yall out here to investigate the robbery?"
Them "What robbery?"
Me "The bank of Berry was robbed."
Them, surprised "When did this happen?"
Me "Sometime in the 1880's"
Them - laughter
Me - "I know who robbed it and the safe they stole is on your training compound."
Them - no more laughter
They called over someone in charge who was eating at another table and I told the whole story. Even now if I happen to see any of them at the restaurant I always ask "Did ya'll find that safe yet?" It always gets a laugh. Then I hear them telling the story to the visiting department.

Also a cousin of Coleman Moore was a preacher, his name was John D. Moore... I'm not sure what exactly the connections are but JD Moore often traveled to Moore Oklahoma to preach revivals. Moore OK was flattened an EF5 tornado in May of 2013 and made national news. The bank robbing side of that family is somehow connected to Moore OK.

 

[Weedygarden]

Lots of new information there @Weedygarden very interesting. Some anecdotal information for you.

I knew Marshall Walker who is listed as Lonnie T. Walker's brother on the 1910 census. He was an old man, me-a little kid. He owned a little country store about 200 yards from his brothers grave. I remember my grandfather buying me ice cream there. We had to drive by the store when grandpa went to his own brothers house.

Also on the census is a man named John Moore with a son name Coleman Moore. I remember where Mr. Coleman's store was located, it eventually became a voting precinct (irony, muffled laughter). They were somehow related to one of my great-great grandfathers. @Sentry18 My grandfather tells the story he heard as a child of how John Moore and one of his two brothers robbed the bank in Berry Alabama sometime in the 1880's. They got away with it, didn't get caught. They rolled the safe into a wagon and made their get away with a team of mules they had stolen.

The funny part... they blew the door off the safe with dynamite. There was no gold or silver in the safe, just mortgages and other papers which became badly burned. I've seen that old safe with the door hanging by one hinge when I was a kid, grandpa showed it to me.

The really funny part... The county bought several acres of land and built a regional training facility for law enforcement out there. They built a large gun range and a training ground for K-9's. That old safe from the robbery is on the training center property!

When I saw the safe it was in a ditch. I'm sure when they brought bulldozers out to landscape the training facility they covered up the safe. I know they didn't find it because everyone for miles around would have heard about it. I actually drove out there a few times and watched dozers...

When ever leo's come out and train they get lunch at the only restaurant in the area. I go there sometimes. Once when it was crowded I shared a big table with several of the Leo's.
I asked "Are yall out here to investigate the robbery?"
Them "What robbery?"
Me "The bank of Berry was robbed."
Them, surprised "When did this happen?"
Me "Sometime in the 1880's"
Them - laughter
Me - "I know who robbed it and the safe they stole is on your training compound."
Them - no more laughter
They called over someone in charge who was eating at another table and I told the whole story. Now if I happen to see any of them at the restaurant I always ask "Did ya'll find that safe yet?" It always get a laugh.

Also a cousin of Coleman Moore was a Preacher, his name was John D. Moore... I'm not sure what exactly the connections are but JD Moore often traveled to Moore Oklahoma to preach revivals. Moore OK was flattened an EF5 tornado in May of 2013 and made national news. The bank robbing side of that family is somehow connected to Moore OK.

Love this story! I have had people tell me that history is boring. Nope! It is not! It is a matter of knowing some of the background and stories that go with it.

 

[Peanut]

The Moore clan... The head of the clan was named John Moore. I don't know where he was from or when he was born but he was killed in the Civil War. He's buried at Fort Eustis Virginia and has a headstone. Most of his male descendants had a form of John or David in their names... and many of the daughters had a form of Josephine in their name or nick name.

According to my dads notes Coleman Moore is actually D. Coleman Moore. I would guess "David".

The biggest irony for me is that a member of the bank robbing side of that family ended up running the voting precinct in the corner of that county for decades... Too Funny!

Makes me wonder about the connection to Moore OK. Did the bank robbing side of that family get run out of OK?

Just thinking out loud here…

Oklahoma wasn’t opened for settlement until 1889. Forced native resettlement from the southeast to Oklahoma began in 1831. Everyone has heard of the Cherokee and the trail of tears. That happened in 1838/39. Relocation of other tribes began 7 years before that. Anyway, for several decades Oklahoma was full of outlaws from states or territories and of course native peoples.

Did the original John Moore come from Oklahoma to Alabama before the civil war? He certainly came from somewhere. As I said above my great/great grandfather was connected or related to the Moore’s somehow.

His wife was Chickasaw. It was always assumed by my dad and others she was from eastern Mississippi or Western Alabama, the traditional lands of the Chickasaw.

But was she? Or did she also come from Oklahoma?

Until tonight I thought my great grandfather married a woman who was half Chickasaw. Tonight, I learned he was half Chickasaw though his wife may have also had native blood.

My dad has jet black hair, dark eyes and high cheek bones. I have blond hair and blue eyes… go figure!

Then again, my dad and I may have all of this wrong... just a big puzzle.

 

[Sentry18]

Both my parents worked on their individual ancestries for years and had lots of it mapped out. They knew I was a mixture of Spanish, Dutch, German, and a little Irish. Then I took a DNA test and found that there are lots of nationalities in me that do not appear anywhere in our family history. Like Portuguese, Armenian, and others. Left everyone scratching their head. And by the way @Peanut I have black hair, brown eyes, and darker skin while my sisters are brunettes with fair skin and hazel/green eyes. Both of my sons have brown eyes and all of my daughters have blue eyes, two girls are blondes and the rest of my kids are all brunettes. I am sure there is a genetic rhyme or reason to it.

 

[Patchouli]

@Bacpacker ...my 2nd cousin knows enough about stone cutting, he expertly crafted a headstone for our g.g. grandfather since the original was so far gone. Maybe just something small for your ancestor would be appropriate. Elberton Georgia granite is the lowest priced.
@Sentry18 all of my kids have some resemblance to one another but also have differences in skin tone. Two, male and female, are olive complexion and look Italian or Middle Eastern. Variations abound. One son looks more like my husband's paternal grandfather.
@Peanut @Weedygarden and everyone, very cool you all have the drive and success to research. They do not want to be forgotten.

 

[Weedygarden]

@Bacpacker ...my 2nd cousin knows enough about stone cutting, he expertly crafted a headstone for our g.g. grandfather since the original was so far gone. Maybe just something small for your ancestor would be appropriate. Elberton Georgia granite is the lowest priced.

One of the cemeteries in South Dakota where I have at least a dozen relatives has a little more than 200 graves. Many have never had headstones or markers on them. I was able to get a copy of the reconstructed cemetery records from a woman about 4 years ago and add the unmarked graves to Find a Grave. People are looking for their relatives, and there they are, even without a headstone or marker. Now, a cousin of mine is the head of this cemetery board that meets once a year. They have a very small budget. Someone keeps the cemetery mowed and cleaned up in the summer, especially for Memorial Day and in June when there is a big annual celebration close by. The cemetery has had a new fence put up in the last decade or so, and, after a minister drove over a headstone and broke it at a grave side service, they have closed off any possible driving into it. It is not a large cemetery, no one needs to drive in it.

A distant cousin spent his summer in S.D. with his wife in their RV. They went to the cemetery. He let me know that it was a well maintained cemetery. It is, because the people who are buried there have living children, grandchildren and more and live close by, some on the family homesteads.

The unmarked graves are now being marked with brick like markers that are being engraved by someone, a professional. They are being done in batches of 10.

The cemetery records were a mess, as are the records of many smaller cemeteries. The records were to be kept by the sexton, and often he was a farmer who was a busy guy, and maybe had a limited education. His main job with the cemetery was to dig a hole and then cover it back up when the casket was placed in it. Three sisters lost their older mother to suicide, and went to stay with their dying father during the last year of his life. Parents and grandparents are buried in the cemetery now. In the process, they used what meager records there were and researched and updated the records as best they could. They were still not perfect, but better. One of them sent the records to me when the then president of the board had a hissy fit when it was brought up at the annual meeting that I would like a copy of the records for the purpose of adding memorials for any unmarked graves to Find a Grave. The sisters were at the meeting and they were all crying, at the meeting. The old fart president has no idea to this day that all those graves are on the "World Wide Web," as he said in his anger about the idea. Sometimes you have to just go around people who have no real idea about the internet. This guy has probably never owned or been on a computer.

Now that cousin is the board president, she and her sister are working on records again. I have gotten a few requests to change information on Find a Grave from one of them.

Every cemetery needs someone to love on it--maintenance and records. It is hard to do that when you live 100's of miles away. I have family members who are buried in cemeteries where the records were not kept in a time before state records were kept. It is almost impossible to find people who died before the state records were kept and when the cemetery records were not kept. I have a couple people I may never find when and where they died and where they are buried.

 

[Patchouli]

Weedy, do you have any photos of the new brick-like markers?

 

[Weedygarden]

Weedy, do you have any photos of the new brick-like markers?

Edited!

Cousin told me her brother-in-law, husband of current cemetery board president (her sister), was doing concrete and brick. You can see that in this image. This person did not previously have a marker or headstone. This image is now on her Find a Grave memorial, thanks to the cousins who have taken interest in doing this project. Maybe one bag of Quikrete, and the engraved brick. I am sure the husband has a form that he can reuse for all of the graves.

One more image that you can tell better how it looks.

 

[phideaux]

Little more on the he story of Tent Headstones....

https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/tennessee/comb-graves-tn/

Jim

 

[Peanut]

Thanks @phideaux I lived in Coffee County TN for a couple of years. The articles says the "Cash Family" cemetery is there.

I never saw it which is odd. I was doing a lot of Civil War research at the time and saw war graves in the hundreds. If I heard a rumor of a cemetery I would go and find it.

In that county... Tullahoma TN, it changed hands between the north and south 6 times. The common joke among soldiers who fought there on both sides... "Tulla is the greek word for Mud" "homa is the greek word for More"

They fought at "More Mud TN" Chewing up the same ground 6 times with horses, men and artillery turned that place into a large mud hole... it was a rail hub.

 

[backlash]

We have a family cemetery on my Mom's side near Yellville Arkansas . I guess it's pretty common for a family to have their own cemetery.
There are quite a few markers there that just say Baby. Infant mortality was high way back when.
My Mom said she would haunt me to my grave if I sent her to Arkansas to be buried.

 

[Weedygarden]

We have a family cemetery on my Mom's side near Yellville Arkansas . I guess it's pretty common for a family to have their own cemetery.
There are quite a few markers there that just say Baby. Infant mortality was high way back when.
My Mom said she would haunt me to my grave if I sent her to Arkansas to be buried.

Infant mortality was high, and the deaths of the mothers giving birth was not uncommon. I have several of them in my family history.

I understand the grief that people experience losing a baby. The headstones are not always a priority. Each letter that is carved raises the fee. 'Baby' is easier and cheaper to carve, but who keeps records of which baby is whom? Reconstructing the records is not easy, if not downright impossible, depending on how long ago it might have been. Different people have different memories.

When I was seeking one of my g grandmother's family information from the Czech records in the Czech genealogy group on Facebook, I was asked what I knew and where I got the information. At the time, I didn't know that my g grandfather had been a millionaire, and that is why they had such an elaborate headstone, with lots of information. Several people in the group remarked to me that g grandparents headstone was expensive and elaborate and that their family headstones had a name and years. Simple, small, less expensive. G grandfather became wealthy by playing the stock market, and lost all his money on Black Friday. He and his second wife moved in with his widowed daughter.

 

[Peanut]

My grandfather had a small wood shop behind the tractor shed, even had a wood lathe. He could build furniture or just about anything from wood. There was a huge shelving unit he built with little drawers and cubbies. We were in there one day and I found some beautiful brass hinges… Grandpa looked sad but explained he did what ever he could to feed his children during the great depression. I know now it was something he didn't like.

In the south up until the 1940’s childhood mortality rates (under the age of 6) were as high as 30% in some areas. Even higher in black communities… Grandpa built more than a few coffins for small children. I think it bothered him a lot… all those kids. It was the only time he ever spoke of it.

 

[Bacpacker]

@Bacpacker ...my 2nd cousin knows enough about stone cutting, he expertly crafted a headstone for our g.g. grandfather since the original was so far gone. Maybe just something small for your ancestor would be appropriate. Elberton Georgia granite is the lowest priced.
@Sentry18 all of my kids have some resemblance to one another but also have differences in skin tone. Two, male and female, are olive complexion and look Italian or Middle Eastern. Variations abound. One son looks more like my husband's paternal grandfather.
@Peanut @Weedygarden and everyone, very cool you all have the drive and success to research. They do not want to be forgotten.

The grandfather i mentioned has a headstone, as does most of the cemetary. It's just grown up. The other one place. , we were not able to find the grandmas grave. Many graves there had no stone or way to id the grave. But obvious where the graves were, ground sunk in deeply. And the forest had reclaimed a good part of it. It was 200 yards or better off the road, up behind a farmers barn.

 

[backlash]

My Uncle died in 1973. He was a Korean vet so he has a military grave marker. When my Aunt died years later she was buried with him. There is no marker for her.
Not sure why my cousin didn't get her a stone but it just never happened.

 

[Weedygarden]

My Uncle died in 1973. He was a Korean vet so he has a military grave marker. When my Aunt died years later she was buried with him. There is no marker for her.
Not sure why my cousin didn't get her a stone but it just never happened.

They do cost money. Some people do not see the importance.

I have aunts and uncles who have had their caskets picked out and paid for, their cemetery plots purchased, and their headstones engraved (except for the final date), ready for when they go. One of my uncles had set aside a fund for the local Legion to prepare and serve lunch for everyone who went to his funeral. These are all of my mom's siblings and spouses.

 

[Bacpacker]

I have aunts and uncles who have had their caskets picked out and paid for, their cemetery plots purchased, and their headstones engraved (except for the final date), ready for when they go. One of my uncles had set aside a fund for the local Legion to prepare and serve lunch for everyone who went to his funeral. These are all of my mom's siblings and spouses.

My grandparents did that,made things easier for their kids. My parents have set theirs up the same way.

 

[Peanut]

Not only is my stone paid for, it’s sitting at the head of my grave with my name on it. Gives me the willies every time I see it… It made parents whose son has a debilitating illness feel better.

Personally, I’m with John Prine on this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug5cML5O1qc

 

[Weedygarden]

Not only is my stone paid for, it’s sitting at the head of my grave with my name on it. Gives me the willies every time I see it… It made parents whose son has a debilitating illness feel better.

Personally, I’m with John Prine on this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug5cML5O1qc

My aunt and uncle are still alive, in their 90's. They have lost 4 children and have had their headstone in place probably since soon after losing their first son to Muscular Dystrophy in 1983. Because they have a headstone set up on their plot, someone created a memorial for them on Find a Grave. They should not have a memorial until they are deceased!

 

[backlash]

My parents made all their arrangements and for paid everything for themselves and my brother.
It was the best thing they did for us. Made the whole funeral process stress free.
When you plan ahead things get done the way you want them done and there is no pressure on anyone to spend more money than needed.
If you do have a pre paid plan check with the cemetery and make sure the opening and closing are included. Otherwise there will be about a $1200 surprise.
Happened when my SIL passed.

 

[joel]

I have a cousin who traced the family records for many years.
My mothers uncle left Kentucky for South Carolina, with his wife & children.
My Aunt D. came down to visit, after she was 18 & stayed, when my mother came down to visit, she stayed. Aunt D. had my mother date an exboyfriend, who my mother married, who is my father.
In both family trees is a mix of my mother uncle family, so I have kin of my mothers that are also kin of my father. My wifes cousin married my cousin & is my cousin by marrage, we all lived in the same farm community. If my fathers sister had not married her husband, my father may not have bought land in that farm community & I would not have met my Wife.
Sorry no one is telling, if they robbed a bank.

 

[Peanut]

Found some more tent graves today in a remote location, a family name I didn't recognize. It's directly across the river from my grtgrt grandfathers old farm. He had a full section, 640acres.

Someone has been tending these graves. Also, they are made much better than regular tent graves. The stone is much thicker here by 40%. One is elaborate, carved corners. All the death dates were prior to 1900.

 

[joel]

WOW!
I did a rubbing of an headstone in the 1800,s, in Camden South Carolina, the oddest in land city in S.C.
I would love to do rubbings of those graves, if I lived closer to them.

 

[LadyLocust]

Those old headstones represent so much life~

 

[Patchouli]

@Peanut look up the census for your grandfather. Mostly the census sheets listed people by roads and their neighbors are on the census, listed above and below. I have found how my ancestors met each other just by looking at that, pretty cool.
I’d be happy to help you if you need help doing the research.

 

[Peanut]

My dad has all that in note books. He was into family history when I was a kid. I like history though. I find books written by people who lived during a war or other big event. Like the journal of Joseph Plumb Martin.

 

[joel]

Anyone who knows a family name can go to the county seat & find the grave yard said person is in.
At least that is how it is here in South Carolina.