How many firearms & how many sources of water.....???

[montanabill]

+1 on people living in major cities are not now and never will be preppers. Water is not abundant here in rocky mountain montana but with 12 inches of rainfall a year we still have the missouri river headwaters and the start of the missouri river. Our town draws drinking water out of the missouri when the mountain lake it normaly gets it's water from gets low. No major cities up stream.
Someone mentioned the store stacking four pallets of bottled water by the door.....that is a tiny amount unless you live in mayberry.
So water and firearms, and as someone said shelter. How many people have two years of firewood that live in a cold climate... I figure two years of food, shelter, defense and multiple sources of water then we will see.

 

[Supervisor42]

+1 on people living in major cities are not now and never will be preppers. Water is not abundant here in rocky mountain montana but with 12 inches of rainfall a year we still have the missouri river headwaters and the start of the missouri river. Our town draws drinking water out of the missouri when the mountain lake it normaly gets it's water from gets low. No major cities up stream.
Someone mentioned the store stacking four pallets of bottled water by the door.....that is a tiny amount unless you live in mayberry.
So water and firearms, and as someone said shelter. How many people have two years of firewood that live in a cold climate... I figure two years of food, shelter, defense and multiple sources of water then we will see.

I live in Mayberry.
The cool thing is, even though you can drive a car right up next to it, with no employee watching it, none of it ever gets stolen.
They aren't worried about being arrested, they know they will get a whipping with a belt .

 

[Tacitus]

If people are still living in the cities, they are not true "preppers". Just sayin.

Suburban guy here...and I totally get where you are coming from.

Turns out my wife is definitely not a true prepper. On a good day, she is a casual prepper at best.

• She loves having neighbors.
• She loves being close to the grocery store.
• She loves going to the church we both went to as kids growing up, and where our kids went to school (and I like that, too).

So, she has never been ready to leave the city. To become a "true prepper," I'd probably have to divorce her. I am willing to die with her in an apocalypse before I divorce her. So, at least I go into this with my eyes open...and we will go down together. In the meantime, I do the best I can.

We are, however, talking about moving to the next county over, further away from the major urban area. So, progress.

 

[Hardcalibres]

Suburban guy here...and I totally get where you are coming from.

Turns out my wife is definitely not a true prepper. On a good day, she is a casual prepper at best.

• She loves having neighbors.
• She loves being close to the grocery store.
• She loves going to the church we both went to as kids growing up, and where our kids went to school (and I like that, too).

So, she has never been ready to leave the city. To become a "true prepper," I'd probably have to divorce her. I am willing to die with her in an apocalypse before I divorce her. So, at least I go into this with my eyes open...and we will go down together. In the meantime, I do the best I can.

We are, however, talking about moving to the next county over, further away from the major urban area. So, progress.

What are your hobbies?

Do you like camping, RVing, Four Wheeling, fishing, hunting, competitive shooting?

If you do any of the above or even if you don't, you can prep mobility.

Being setup to leave where you are, go somewhere else and survive there for at least months is achievable and while not as good as living somewhere remote, if a very severe crisis comes along, it is better than hoping for the best in an unsurvivable location.

I would rather be a live camper/RVer than a dead suburbanite any day.

Those who have mobility, need to conduct good research and prepare plans in advance of the crisis - and they need to action their plans before things get too bad - but again, perfect is the enemy of good.

 

[Haertig]

If people are still living in the cities, they are not true "preppers". Just sayin.

I would never want to live in a large city. I'm more of a suburban type currently, although I would go for a small town near (but not "in") the middle of nowhere.

The way I see it, is if a large part of your life is prepping and planning on living on your own after a large scale disaster that shakes the world, yeah, you'll have to be living out in the middle of nowhere. And you will have to endure the hardships that imposes on you (there are many pluses too!) You will probably have to endure this for a long time before SHTF really happens, if it ever does in your lifetime. But that's a lifestyle choice, and not a bad one.

On the other hand, you could live nearer to other people and enjoy the companionship and other benefits that brings for a long time. The trade off being that you may be a short-timer once the SHTF.

So I can see things from both perspectives. "Enjoy life now, and die early in the apocalypse". Or "Endure some hardships now, and live a long time in the apocalypse". One perspective it no better than the other. They are just different. Personally, I am not hard-core city (far from it!) But neither am I hard-core hermit (just about as far from that one as I am from hard-core city). Somewhere in the middle. I would probably survive after SHTF marginally longer than a hard-code city person, but nowhere near as long as a hard-core hermit. Which suits me just fine. That is my target actually. If the world isn't going to bounce back to semi-normal within a reasonable time frame, I am perfectly good with living for only 6 months or so in a post-apocalyptic hell.

 

[Dani]

Suburban guy here...and I totally get where you are coming from.

Turns out my wife is definitely not a true prepper. On a good day, she is a casual prepper at best.

• She loves having neighbors.
• She loves being close to the grocery store.
• She loves going to the church we both went to as kids growing up, and where our kids went to school (and I like that, too).

So, she has never been ready to leave the city. To become a "true prepper," I'd probably have to divorce her. I am willing to die with her in an apocalypse before I divorce her. So, at least I go into this with my eyes open...and we will go down together. In the meantime, I do the best I can.

We are, however, talking about moving to the next county over, further away from the major urban area. So, progress.

I totally LOVE that about you! You keep working on that lovely wife of yours. You are totally committed to defending her, but what happens if you are not there or God forbid, not able to? Has she thought about those outcomes?

 

[Tacitus]

...you can prep mobility. ...

Agree with your post. Initially, I was making bug out bags, etc. I looked at RV's and the like.

Then I decided that going mobile carries with it some tremendous risks. I decided that hunkering down in place would be safer than going mobile...unless and until I had a definite place to go to, which I don't have yet. My "bug out bags" became "get home bags." I have a lot of supplies stored here that I could not carry. I have family I'm not ready to abandon, but who would be unable to travel with me.

The good news is that I am not fully in the city. Certainly I am more so "in the city" than many here would like. But, my house is in "far suburbia," which is to say, reasonably far away from the city center, and approaching rural (within a mile, there is a small corn field, but a corn field nonetheless). I'm still in a subdivision...but a pseudo-wild subdivision that has strips of undeveloped forest between streets, rather than houses packed in together. Can't get away from the houses on my cul-de-sac, but I'm not staring out my back door into other people's houses.

I am hoping to get some property into the next county over (further away from a major urban area). It has taken years of discussion with the wife, but as we have been getting the "kids" out of the house, my wife has been willing to discuss it. We'll see.

 

[Hardcalibres]

Then I decided that going mobile carries with it some tremendous risks. I decided that hunkering down in place would be safer than going mobile............

I don't think any of us knows that for sure.

By having mobility prepared, you can at least reduce your risk in the types of crises where relocation makes sense.

If you discount that possibility now, and don't create a mobility capability, then you "put all your eggs in the one basket" marked "I am relying upon my house remaining survivable".

As I have posted recently, a typical house does not provide cover from rifle fire. They are also easy to set on fire. If a bad crisis comes along, then you will be hiding in a cardboard box with valuables in it among a whole bunch of other cardboard boxes with valuables in them and relying upon people staying civilized when there is no rule of law. We already get to see what people do without the rule of law now (during short/localized suspensions of the same) - they don't stay civilized for long.........

Additionally, where people rely upon supermarkets, outside delivery of supplies and mains water, gas, electricity and sewage, those places will become unsurvivable even without violence.

Mobility provides an option and a safety net.

It is not applicable to every event nor is it a guarantee of survival when it is applicable - but it is a key survivalism capability.

 

[Tacitus]

All solid points, Hardcalibres. Diversity in prepping is always a good idea.

(Aside: I remember your post about defense of a house. It opened my eyes a bit.)

 

[Haertig]

Mobility provides an option and a safety net.

If you successfully make if from semi-safe place A to more-safe place B, yes. But the actual trip between the two places? You are an easy to spot, easy to ambush, soft target.

An RV is going to be easily stopped by something as simple as a long 2x4 with large nails hammered through it. Find a section of road with thick trees on either side and lay down the nail stick. Winebago comes toodling along. Notes the danger. Stops to reverse course. But your crew has already placed a second nail stick behind it. Now you have somebody trapped in a thin metal box that offers less protection than a home. Drive over the nails in a panic and you end up like the lame antelope falling behind the herd, being chased by lions. Easy pickin's.

Mobility has its benefits. But it also has its hazards.

 

[Proud Prepper]

In the short term, people will resent having to pay for water (because in normal times it is virtually free).....and that resentment could lead to violence - particularly if they know you have water, you do some bargaining and you discover they have nothing you need or even want. Turning down and turning your back on those who know you have what they need to survive, will never be a good plan.

In the medium term (sometimes called the dying time by survivalism commentators), I assess that interactions of all kinds will be too dangerous. That is the time those that have what they need to hole up for months will survive and those who don't, won't.

Later on, when the situation has reached some new equilibrium, perhaps you could do some trading for water - but if you have an almost unlimited supply of something and they have none, that will always be a source of resentment.

Survivable trading in a WROL world, always needs to leave both parties satisfied.

I would give a limited amount of away for free with anyone I trade with if they need it, in exchange for comparable empty water containers .

I won't be trading with anyone for many months after the worst of it is over, with the exception of those I've established a relationship with prior to that event.

 

[Hardcalibres]

If you successfully make if from semi-safe place A to more-safe place B, yes. But the actual trip between the two places? You are an easy to spot, easy to ambush, soft target.

An RV is going to be easily stopped by something as simple as a long 2x4 with large nails hammered through it. Find a section of road with thick trees on either side and lay down the nail stick. Winebago comes toodling along. Notes the danger. Stops to reverse course. But your crew has already placed a second nail stick behind it. Now you have somebody trapped in a thin metal box that offers less protection than a home. Drive over the nails in a panic and you end up like the lame antelope falling behind the herd, being chased by lions. Easy pickin's.

Mobility has its benefits. But it also has its hazards.

................

Those who have mobility, need to conduct good research and prepare plans in advance of the crisis - and they need to action their plans before things get too bad - but again, perfect is the enemy of good.

 

[Tommyice]

I'm suburban but it feels more urban every day. My home is on a corner and when growing up, the side street was still dirt. I'm also in a mixed used zone meaning the stores have apartments above. My home was the same, butcher shop below and two additional apartments. Building was built in 1940. My 88 year old father is unwilling to move--it would be too much for him I admit. I do what I can with what I've got.

As for water here in suburbia, I've got five 50 gallon rain barrels, stored water, a tributary of a good size river 1/2 mile away, a reservoir about 3/4 mile away and for purification I've got one of those Life Straw bag style filtration systems (the kind you always see hanging on the back of the land rovers in mission work in third world areas). Plan on adding to the filtration options.

If I'm at the cabin, in addition to the well, there's the St. Lawrence River just about 100' from the front door.

 

[The Lazy L]

A river 1/2 mile away. Creek 1/4 mile away. Drainage ditch across my property that flows 8 months out of the year. A well that will be utilized with a well bucket and winch. I almost forgot the 1,000 gallon garden pond. Future (summer) project, connection of 4-275 gallon totes for rain catchment.

For firearms we standardized calibers, 5.56 and 40 S&W. Each person has a minimum of 2 of each caliber. And individual choices for specialized firearms. Standardized we reload, specialized calibers bring your own.

 

[The Lazy L]

…." I have a lot of supplies stored here that I could not carry. I have family I'm not ready to abandon, but who would be unable to travel with me...

I’m in a similar situation. Older family members that can’t travel, a few that could but slowly. My solution is to be the restocking point for the younger members. The rest of us would follow later to BOL (if at all) as deaths and conditions would permit us.

 

[The Lazy L]

There is a computer game called DayZ. You start on the beach with almost nothing. You work your way inland avoiding humans and zombies as you scavenge for supplies. You get wet and cold you need to find or have the means to build a fire before you die. Find food before you starve to death. Find safe water before dying of thirst. Once in a while you think you’re lucky by finding a fellow human that didn’t kill you on sight. A few of these “friendly” are more than happy to trade you water. Unknowing to you they refilled the water bottles with contaminated water. You get sick and die.

In a real life scenario y’all better be very very cautious of any water (or food) you traded for.

 

[Wingnut]

It's the Wild West all over again...

Buster Scruggs

 

[montanabill]

I gotta laugh when buster scruggs is mentioned. True but funny.
I have done some study of mining towns and the boom and bust cycle most of them went thru. I actually live near a mining camp that grew into a town and is still here.

There are the remains of towns all around here where they flourished and then went bust. Some have cemetarys where whole area's are occupied with kids of about the same age where a disease came thru and killed many.

The gold miners made some money but the people that sold shovels and grubstaked the miners ended up with the gold.

 

[Old Whatshisname]

Water: I have a 220-foot deep well with a static water level of 128 feet (which, over the past five years, has fluctuated only about ten feet). The Snake River Aquifer is considered one of the best.

Of course, even in a rural area, I am running a 240v pump producing >14 gal/min. I did add a parasitic hand-pump which will give me about one gal/min, which would be really tight, even with drip irrigation for the garden. My only affordable option is to double the size of the PV or buy another little Honda 120-v genset which I could run in parallel with my existing one and run the pump until the gasoline went away.

Firearms: As many of you know, I have never owned a firearm in my life and never will, since the government is my friend, the police will protect me, and besides, guns kill people.

 

[LadyLocust]

@Sourdough To give you something to laugh at or shake your head at or????
Not only do many folks in cities not have water or protection, “minimalism” is a promoted lifestyle. Why store extra anything? If you don’t use something for 6 months, get rid of it. Pseudo prepping is the term for cooking enough for 2-3 days so you don’t have to shop or cook for 3 days. Isn’t that great? Again this is being promoted as a desirable lifestyle.
I am not making this up. If people can be so easily coerced into believing such a thing is good without realizing the possible perils, why would anyone think they would ever consider where their water comes from?
Okay you can stop laughing now.

 

[Sourdough]

Off the chart "SAD".
I have not been to America in 25 years.

@Sourdough To give you something to laugh at or shake your head at or????
Not only do many folks in cities not have water or protection, “minimalism” is a promoted lifestyle. Why store extra anything? If you don’t use something for 6 months, get rid of it. Pseudo prepping is the term for cooking enough for 2-3 days so you don’t have to shop or cook for 3 days. Isn’t that great? Again this is being promoted as a desirable lifestyle.
I am not making this up. If people can be so easily coerced into believing such a thing is good without realizing the possible perils, why would anyone think they would ever consider where their water comes from?
Okay you can stop laughing now.