Laundry Room & Bathroom Reno in old house- Project #1

[zannej]

Thanks, Frodo. I posted in my thread about the float switches to see if Valveman will reply. I think that's his username over there. It's great to hear form you, btw.

I went to TSC and there was no replacement float switch-- not even listed on their website anymore. Saw on Amazon they want almost $100 for the switch. Cheapest I found was about $72 (I have to factor in sales tax for my area).

I'm thinking of just ditching the whole float thing and going with sensors instead. It's actually cheaper at this point and and I found an option that comes with a controller and can handle up to 250v.

It would take a few days to get here, but we still have water in buckets and my friend said since we bought everything in his bathroom for him we are welcome to use his bathroom anytime. He said if he has time before work tomorrow he's going to come out with a tester to see if any of the wires are bad. Since he's a certified electrician he's going to look over wiring diagrams on that switch controller thingy for me.

 

[zannej]

Thanks. I wish I would get in gear and get stuff done but I need help with it and good help is hard to find around here.

 

[zannej]

@Astralopitec I hope I can get myself inspired enough to actually work on things more. I've had zero energy lately. My doctor thinks my thyroid meds are not absorbing properly or that I may need to up my dosage.
I would recommend if you are going to buy furniture for the bathroom (such as a vanity) that you go with solid wood like something from Surplus Warehouse/aka Barton Home Outlet. They have unfinished oak vanities. The particle board/mdf stuff does not handle moisture well.
You may tag me when you make your post so I can be sure to see it. I'd love to see it.

I forgot to mention that the windows I ordered months ago FINALLY came in. They e-mailed me today to let me know they arrived. Claimed they arrived on the 7th but didn't notify me until today. They were much lighter weight than I expected- especially for double-pane glass. I have them in the workshop for now.

 

[zannej]

So, now that I have my toilet in my bathroom I am still thinking about this project. I was looking at my sketches and where I was putting plumbing and thought that maybe I should move some stuff over so its easier to access behind the dryer. I also started thinking about covering the gap between washer and dryer. I was thinking some plywood on top but then that isn't really great for damp areas & I don't want to put pressure treated there and then I thought about plexiglass. There's a sheet on HomeDepot that is a little over $80 or I could see if I have any in the workshop-- pretty sure I do have a sheet down in the workshop. It could then be cut to size and butt up against the wall and have ledgers on the walls to support it instead of putting a shelf behind the machines. I figure it could but in to the window sill a couple inches- still leaving room to open the window and it would let in more light and allow me to see behind stuff more easily.
I was going to have the pipe for the washing machine drain go down right next to the dryer but then I remembered my states' code allows for a 6' trap arm and it's less than 6' from the trap. I could either put it inside the interior wall and have a cleanout access poking out or put it next to that wall and have the cleanout.
My sketches don't how the cleanout as I don't have the model to plug in just yet.

Any thoughts?

 

[havasu]

I'd slide the drier as far right as possible, then place the trash can under the window. This will allow emergency access out the window, make it brighter in the room, and hide the ugly vent pipe.

 

[zannej]

That is a thought but I wanted more space for opening the dryer and it would block an access panel to the bathroom plumbing. Right now the dryer is against the wall and the door bounces back at me when I open it. If I needed to mess with that I'd have to move the whole dryer. I like having them butted next to each other because it makes transferring laundry from on to the other easier. It would also make accessing the dryer vent a lot harder if I bumped it over more. Although, that is something to consider... I will see how it looks in sketchup. I like having a continuous surface to fold laundry on and place stuff on. I suppose I could make a removable board that can sit in between and then be able to move it to access stuff. And I could move the plumbing (as ugly as it is) back over to right next to the window so the drain pipe would not conflict with the dryer vent.
Hmm...
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have to think about that. Might make some cardboard stand-ins the size of washer and dryer & see how it feels. I mean, worst case, what I usually do when pulling wet clothes out of the washer is set a basket below to catch it if it falls and then put it in the dryer. It would just be a little farther away and I could slide the basket over more.

Update: I did a mockup in Sketchup and didn't really like the look and the pipe would still have to go into the corner (meaning the trap arm has to go under the dryer vent) and the cleanout would not be easily accessible- nor would the access panel in the wall. If I had it just after the window it would block access to the dryer vent. So, I think I will stick to having the machines together so I'll have room to access the dryer vent and the access panel and cleanout.

 

[zannej]

I just had an epiphany-- I've been wanting to run the toilet drain back to that southern exterior wall and tie in the vent and drain from the sink and trying to figure out how to deal with the wall supports. Then I realized I don't have to run the toilet drain that way. I could run it toward the east exterior wall-- but then I'd still have to contend with trying to get the vent in or around that wall and it runs away from the septic tank. So then I realized that if I run the toilet's drain toward the interior wall at an angle so it lands in the same stud pocket or adjacent stud pocket to the tub, I can have the vent go up into that wall and tie in to the main vent and the drain can go to the main soil pipe.

The lav will just need to have its own vent. I want to have it go into the wall with two 45s and then toward the top of the wall it will come out with a 90, go around the eaves, and then have a 90 to go above the eaves. The drain can go at an angle to tie in with the toilet's drain with a wye (should be able to line up if I angle them properly). If I need an bends then so be it but hopefully I won't. I'm just trying to decide if I want the 45s on the vent or the drain.

If I have 45s on the vent would it obstruct airflow? But I'm also concerned it could become a place for clogs if I have it in the drain.

So, my questions:
1. If I want the toilet drain to vent in the wall before the drain meets the main soil pipe, can I use a sanitary tee on its back with the sweep going against the flow of water and then continue on to a wye for the soil pipe connection?
2. Should I have the 45s to get the lav pipe into the wall on the drain side or the vent side?
3. Can I tie the sink's drain in to the toilet line before the toilet line's vent?
4. Are fernco saddle wyes a bad idea?

I forgot to draw in laundry vent connection, but it would be to the right of the main vent that is represented by a blue circle. Drain for laundry would tie in 5' downstream of the toilet connection.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

 

[zannej]

I was looking up the code Frodo referenced about suds relief and found that it is obsolete with the newer front-load machines because they don't create suds. It also did not apply to single-family residential homes.

So, my current sketch:

My concern now is that I believe the main vent pipe is only 2" and if I am interpreting things correctly it can only handle 6dfu. Toilet would be 3dfu, tub would be 2dfu, and washing machine would be 3dfu so it would be 8dfu. But the tub/shower will not be run while the washing machine is being run and the toilet won't be flushing while the shower is running so I think it should be OK. I can tie the washing machine in at the very end and have a cleanout, but I will still have a cleanout in the wall just in case something gets stuck higher up. I'll have an access panel on the wall behind the shower valve. I'm still trying to figure out stud placement in the walls and just how far over the main vent is. I know it is within the first stud pocket from the corner. I want to say its about 13" away from the corner.

I'm thinking of using this on the wall where the vent pipes come out: Low Profile Master Flash®

Stomach just turned more hateful on me, but I'll try to get pics of where the vent is visible above the wall panel in the laundry room later on.

 

[zannej]

I was just looking in the laundry room area today and thinking about how I need to clear all my brother's junk out and clear out the old bathroom. Right now it is filled with random things and old couch cushions/pillows. I can probably move those down to the workshop- possibly up to the loft. Or just throw them out, but the hoarder in me hates to throw them out. I desperately need to replace that busted up back door. Right now it doesn't even have a proper header. Just a 2x4 on the flat for an exterior load-bearing wall and a 36" door. One jack stud is 1" lower than the other. It's ugly. The good news is that the door opens inward so I shouldn't have to mess with the outside much.

I saw some videos where they said it is code to have rigid foam board between the wood in headers in some places. I actually like that idea-- especially since my brain wasn't processing that I need a 5.5" thick header as I appear to have 2x6 walls. That would mean two 2x6s pinned together on the outside, 1" of spacing material, and a 2x6 on the other side. It is much cheaper to get foam board than a 1" thick plywood piece. It is lighter weight and offers some insulation.

I just watched a video where a guy showed how he made an insulated header in a 2x6 exterior wall. I'll use screws instead of nails (like in the video) as my nail gun's nails aren't long enough. The wood I found for the cheapest price is pressure treated (the regular stuff was more expensive). I should be able to get 3 pieces out of a 2x6x12.

For the 1" unfaced rigid foam, I'm debating whether to get the pink stuff from HD or the green stuff from Lowes. Both are the same size and same price. Not sure on R values but other than color, they seem to be about the same. All the videos and pictures I've seen show the green foam though.

I also need to figure out how I'm going to handle the exterior light. I want to put it above the door and under an awning. I'll have to brace up for the awning and possibly build out some sort of frame to extend it out more, but I can worry about that later. Right now the box for the exterior light is not the right kind and I've been told its facing the wrong way. I'd like to keep the light at the same height but don't want to compromise the strength of the header. Could I fit the wires for it into the foam layer from a box above the header (bc adding a proper header will get in the way of the existing box) and attach the exterior light to the header from the outside? I need to get some photos at some point to show what I'm talking about. It's dark out right now-- but this was on my mind so I wanted to bring it up.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/GreenGuard-1-X-2-X-2-Project-Panel-LG-1/5001929511vs
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Project...Foam-Board-Insulation-Sheathing-PP1/203553730
As an aside, I forgot to mention that I got some laundry things on sale at Amazon.
Magnetic lint bin that can stick to the side of the dryer. Magnetic dryer sheet holder. Stands for the detergent that tips them so the contents will come out easier but also has a strap to hold them in place. Has a spot to hold the cup for the detergent. The image doesn't show the straps. And a dispenser for the bead-type detergent that gets added to laundry. I get the Gain Fireworks or whatever its called.

I think I'm going to skip the acrylic shelf idea. Can't seem to find the sheets of acrylic and wood will be much simpler to work with.

I got a long anti-fatigue mat for the floor in front of the machines.


For the bathroom, I'm now thinking of just putting an AAV on the lavatory but bringing it up so it is at least 6" above the flood level of the sink & using an AAV box (or this one) with vents inside the wall. I figure that is safer than having things poke through the wall and the drain will connect to pipes with an atmospheric vent. It will be in a spot that can be checked for any failures.

I will then only have to worry about the drain part. I'm debating whether to have the elbow to go around the bottom plates and bump the drain out of the wall (behind the vanity) below or above the vent. Above I'm concerned might be a problem with airflow. Below might make it easier for crud to get stuck in the pipe and harder to clean it out.
So, any thoughts?

 

[zannej]

Replacing the back door is part of this project & we need to do it soon, but that hallway is a hot mess. I wish the lumber prices hadn't gone so high. It's going to be expensive fixing that floor. But I will probably have to fix just the threshold and back door first & hope everything will go smoothly with the floor. The door sill is destroyed. I'm thinking of using PVC board for the sill underneath the threshold. I can paint it and it will be waterproof. Still need to figure out how to replace the entire section of floor that is rotted though. I want to get that bit leveled, figure out the joist spacing, and install a proper header. I keep meaning to go check and measure back there but its so dark (no lights work).

I want to make sure I can install an exterior light along with the header. Old one got broken by a hurricane and wasn't properly attached.

I found this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KWX1BRQ

It is for mounting over siding and it works as an electrical box. Need to get some wago lever nuts for the connections. For the light Mom picked this ugly Hampton Bay light Hampton Bay 1-Light White Outdoor Wall Lantern Sconce BPM1691-WHT - The Home Depot

I'll need to find the right kind of LED bulb that can be installed outside. It should not get hit with rain but there will be more moisture and the bottom of the lamp is open.

I will have to move stuff to get to the vinyl plank flooring in an insulated room in the workshop so I can use one to gauge the right height for the flooring. Not sure how much of the underlying floor (if any of it) can be salvaged. It's down to the plywood right now. I want the door high enough to clear the new flooring after the floor is repaired. I may end up using leveling mix to level things out if the floor slopes too much. I'm still considering putting in some sort of floor drain in case of leaks from the washing machine. Trying to get a pan under it would be a royal pain. But, we've gone this long without a floor drain. Might as well finish some of the demo on the old bathroom when going to work on the back door.

Also have an awning to install but need to put blocking in to mount it and I think I want to extend it out a bit. Got something like this (but will only be doing one panel)
https://www.amazon.com/ZENY-Overhead-Polycarbonate-Decorator-Bracket/dp/B074J61SHL/

It sticks out 40" and the eaves are about 24". I'll be doing a double one over the sliding glass door, eventually. I'll be painting the black parts white and trying to figure out how to add some sort of drip edge to the front so water won't drip down on people and will be diverted to the sides.

Any idea what would work for that? Obviously a full gutter would not work. The awning would essentially be around 40"Wx40"Dx11"H. The lamp (which I think is ~6.5"H will go under it.

TL: DR? I'm looking for advice on how to repair floor/sill at the door where it rotted out and about some sort of small gutter for the awning.

I think I mentioned I eventually want to add small decks or landings just outside the back door and the sliding glass door-- although I wonder if french doors would be a better replacement for the sliding glass door.

 

[old tex]

First off OMG!!! Second off I am terrible at anything where I have to work with my hands. So, my one suggestion that has worked for me in the past on anything that you can't do is: Ask local real-estate people who they use to fix up houses. Also ask people in the trade (who fix up houses) who they use. I've been VERY LUCKY doing that. That's how I got my roofer, who saved me literally thousands on my last roof replace (he did the work for $3,000 under what the insurance paid me. And I asked a neighbor (in that line of work) who he used for wood work & got that guy. He replaced 3 walls of a room for $4,000 when the estimate I got from someone else was $9,000 plus materials. Plus he made a custom made window to fit a stained glass window we had.

Side note on the room redo. After he tore out the old walls he called me back to look. Understand I know nothing about that stuff but after one look I asked "What's holding the ceiling up". He replied, darned if I know. I've got to support the ceiling before I do anything else. My house is over 100 years old so now telling what we would find if we started tearing it apart.

 

[zannej]

old tex, the only real estate person left alive in the area is a jerk. A lot of the work gets done without permits and most of the people would not be willing to come out to my neck of the woods. People here are not reliable so I'd rather do it myself.

I decided to go with a glass block window (prefab) for the shower so my brother doesn't break a regular window with his elbow. I considered trying to make the window smaller but its easier and less expensive (when I priced stuff out) to keep the window the same size. I already ordered the window and am waiting for it to be shipped to HomeDepot. I purchased the stops so I can put the window in without it just falling out of the hole. Will have to see if I need to make a frame for it as its a frameless one.

Still need to get my friend out at some point to help. Working on other stuff right now and friend hasn't been feeling well. I'm probably going to have to lose some weight to try to fit under the house to do some stuff myself. Really need to clean out the back hallway though. Just been focusing on trying to take care of Mom's health.

 

[teeceetx]

Don't forget to post real pics of the finished product!

Looks good from the drawings.

 

[zannej]

Don't forget to post real pics of the finished product!

Looks good from the drawings.

Oh, I will post so many pics it will make people's heads spin! LOL. I love pictures.
I still have a lot of work to do before continuing this project. The water being out for so long and trying to fix that was a huge issue.
Decided that since the hose splitter at the water trough works to provide an available spigot/hose outlet that I won't have to add one from under the house. Will have to go farther to spray stuff off though. I can set the hose holder over near the trough. I should probably create a small lean-to to prevent leaves from falling in to the trough but allow rainwater to dump in to it. Maybe set up some kind of mini-gutter and downspout.

I also want to build some sort of frame to bump the awning out farther and I hope to build a landing outside the back door so it is safer for people to use that door and not have steps immediately after the door is opened. Would love to do that with the sliding glass door too (which also needs to be replaced).

I want to do a couple more things in my bathroom before I start on this. Need to put a lightbulb in the ceiling light in the hallway and see if the light fixture still works enough for me to see back there at night so I can start cleaning up more and finish demo.
I plan to put this sucker to use (not my photo)

 

[old tex]

Wow, a house in worse shape than ours when we moved in. Our house too is old & dates in the 1920's. It's been added on to, updated & changed a lot over the years by people that didn't know what they were doing. The only good update that I've found was at one time an electrician must have lived here. Houses this old generally only have a couple of electric outlets per room, but we have 6 in the living room alone.

A great example of how two 14 year olds drinking beer can build (no sober adult could have done this) is our computer room. Years ago we had a rain storm & water poured in one of the windows. I had workers here already & had them tear out the wall to find out the problem. Problem one was that the window had never been nailed in. It was just set in place & the molding put around it. Problem 2 was that the main corner braces had rotted & weren't even touching the ground. We had that fixed. I thought about that for about a year & a half & wondered what about the other 2 walls (4th wall was rock)? So I got a guy out to tear out the walls & found no corner braces & not one single board went from floor to ceiling. They placed 1 on the bottom & one on the top & joined them sideways with a couple of nails. The whole ceiling was being held up by the siding & about 20 nails. There was even screen in some place from when it was changed from being a screened in porch. Crazy stuff.

 

[zannej]

Wow, a house in worse shape than ours when we moved in. Our house too is old & dates in the 1920's. It's been added on to, updated & changed a lot over the years by people that didn't know what they were doing. The only good update that I've found was at one time an electrician must have lived here. Houses this old generally only have a couple of electric outlets per room, but we have 6 in the living room alone.

A great example of how two 14 year olds drinking beer can build (no sober adult could have done this) is our computer room. Years ago we had a rain storm & water poured in one of the windows. I had workers here already & had them tear out the wall to find out the problem. Problem one was that the window had never been nailed in. It was just set in place & the molding put around it. Problem 2 was that the main corner braces had rotted & weren't even touching the ground. We had that fixed. I thought about that for about a year & a half & wondered what about the other 2 walls (4th wall was rock)? So I got a guy out to tear out the walls & found no corner braces & not one single board went from floor to ceiling. They placed 1 on the bottom & one on the top & joined them sideways with a couple of nails. The whole ceiling was being held up by the siding & about 20 nails. There was even screen in some place from when it was changed from being a screened in porch. Crazy stuff.

My house is of similar age, although I know there were addons in the 40s and then 60s or 70s. From the wood paneling my guess would be 70s. It needs soo much work.
And the electrical code for light switches recently changed. The neutral can no longer be used as a hot supply out of the switch to the light as the light now needs a neutral too. Gonna be fun seeing if my wires will work for that. It's mostly for new "smart" devices. I'm not using any of those so should be able to grandfather stuff in. Although, won't hurt to have 12/2wg to any new lights.

At least I've convinced Mom that it would be money well spent to hire a pro to install the windows and possibly even the back door. May need to see about having a pro bring a sliding glass door and install it as well. Probably have to hope someone can come out and do an estimate first.

 

[zannej]

I went and measured some of the stud locations in the south and north walls of the current laundry room. Was only able to find 2 studs for the north wall and 4 for the south wall. I forgot to check east and west walls. I marked the studs with tape and hope that Doofusaurus won't rip the tape off this time like he did with my marks/measurements in Mom's bathroom. I wrote the measurements on them. I know that my sketchup measurements aren't perfect-- may be off by a few inches. Discovered that the 2x4s are 1-3/4" thick instead of 1-1/2" thick which means they predate 1946. I fully expect that the windows will not have proper headers-- just like the door. So I anticipate having to add headers but will make sure there is enough room for the new windows to fit.

Since the main vent pipe through the roof is small (I think 1-1/2" or 2" at most) it can't handle too many dfus so I will only be connecting the tub and toilet to it. The washing machine and lavatory will have their own AAVs. I even figured out a general location for the in-wall box with louvered cover. Couldn't find a sketchup model of it so I created an approximation. It's far from perfect, but better than nothing.
I may end up having to move studs for the recessed medicine cabinet to fit, but its not a load-bearing wall so I'm hoping that won't be too much trouble. The old vertical boards behind the ugly thin wall paneling over in the northeast corner are beautiful and I'm hoping to find a way to repurpose them. We used to have more of them but the tenants stole them.

This is my most recent sketch showing some of the stud locations. I really should get a stud-finder but it feels like I have additional boards behind the paneling. The gray rectangles are where I've identified studs. Black dots are potential places where studs might be. Pretty sure the wall thickness is wrong but I'm too lazy to fix it at the moment. Oh, and I forgot to update for the glass block window. I may have to draw one myself.

I forgot to mark where I will be moving one of the studs over from the east side to the west side to build out the door frame.

For electrical I'm going to have the switch for the vanity light be near the door so the wiring can be run through the attic instead of tapping in to over-used electrical outlets in my brother's room.

I plan to get some more measurements and flesh out the house layout a bit more. And I need a new screenshot of where I drew i more studs.

 

[Patchouli]

I don’t know why the glass block window in my bathroom is like this but just a caution to ya, @zannej The one in my bathroom is apparently not sealed off well. ? It has clouded up inside the glass. I’m sure I’m living wrong for that to have happened. If it were not in the shower stall perhaps it wouldn’t have happened. It is high up, like eye level.

 

[zannej]

I don’t know why the glass block window in my bathroom is like this but just a caution to ya, @zannej The one in my bathroom is apparently not sealed off well. ? It has clouded up inside the glass. I’m sure I’m living wrong for that to have happened. If it were not in the shower stall perhaps it wouldn’t have happened. It is high up, like eye level.

Hmm.. It sounds like your window wasn't sealed properly if its clouding up. Sounds like moisture is getting in. Is it in an exterior wall? I wonder if it wasn't flashed properly or there's not a a proper flange above to deflect water or if the caulk wasn't sufficient.

Honestly, I don't care if the glass blocks cloud up so long as they allow some light in, provide privacy, and keep the elements out. I shouldn't be seeing the bathroom too often as it will be my brother's bathroom. Although, I will probably have to go in and clean it since he doesn't clean anything. He's 44 and has never cleaned a toilet or shower in his life.

 

[havasu]

since he doesn't clean anything. He's 44 and has never cleaned a toilet or shower in his life.

Your brother is playing you for a fool. Act stupid and dumb, and someone will do it for you. Maybe he isn't dumb after all!

 

[zannej]

Havasu, it's weaponized incompetence. but in his case, he's not pretending to not know how to do it, he just refuses to do it. He calls it "slack bastardism" which he describes as "The art of putting more effort & energy into NOT doing something than it would take to actually do something" He will just let stuff fester and then scream and yell when he trips over stuff and yell "This is UNACCEPTABLE!" at me as if I'm the one who made the mess. He gets even angrier if I point out that it's his mess. Lately he's been yelling about not having any counter space to set things on when most of the stuff on the counter is his. I've found that if I don't do something, he won't either no matter how bad it gets. He just screams & yells and has a tantrum about it and breaks stuff instead so the only way to get it done is if I do it. Of course, if you ask him, he thinks he does most of the work in the house and that I do nothing. I'll stop there before I turn in to a full blown rant.

Anyway, I created a glass block window and drew in some studs. I had to draw the glass block window block by block, manually drew the hopper window part and even did an approximation of the latch. It's not really to scale, but its close enough. I did steal the texture for the glass block window from another sketchup file and modified it to fit and adjusted the opacity.

Obviously its not perfect, but I'm happy with it. None of the windows on Sketchup had the hopper window.

 

[havasu]

I love those hopper windows. Just consider if a fire erupted, how will you exit the house at 2 AM?

 

[zannej]

I love those hopper windows. Just consider if a fire erupted, how will you exit the house at 2 AM?

I'd be unlikely to be in that bathroom at 2AM. I'd have to try to climb over my headboard to get through my closest bedroom window.
The bathroom with glass block will be near the back door.

That does remind me that I need to locate the fire extinguisher and install a working smoke alarm.

 

[havasu]

I need to locate the fire extinguisher and install a working smoke alarm.

Please do this sooner than later.

 

[zannej]

Please do this sooner than later.

I'm pretty sure its in the kitchen on a blue tub next to the doorway to the front room, but I will confirm next time I get up. I believe we have more than one in the house.