Limestone County teachers learn how to use batons, pepper spray...

[Dutchboy]

LOL, yeah we are doing them a big favor, by not pumping slugs into them!

Ain't we humain!

 

[Supervisor42]

LOL, yeah we are doing them a big favor, by not pumping slugs into them!

Ain't we humain!

Is there a chemist in the house?
Don't make me pick, they'll need oxygen and a damn defibrillator if they want to question him.
Post#31:

Don't make me invent stuff, because I will!

 

[Dutchboy]

Go for it Sup. Ya might just be on to something!

 

[Supervisor42]

Don't make me invent stuff, because I will!

I believe that OC is popular as it replaced the night-stick (aka: billy-club) that cops used to punish non-deadly threats into submission at close range, avoiding lawsuits. It's not very effective unless you can make a head-shot and the perp is not wearing glasses.
I believe it is the wrong tool for the job when it comes to schools.
Spit-balling here: let's say a teacher removed what looks like a 5-pound fire-extinguisher (except it's green) from a hook that triggers an alarm.
It's filled with a quart of chloroform under high pressure and will throw a fat stream 40 feet.
She soaks the clothing of the BG with it; Tons of vapor coming off right under his nose.
How long would he stay conscious?
If innocents are in the line of fire, well, it's naptime.
This is just an example, not a workable solution. But it would be better than a can of OC.
(and for the innocents, way better than a firearm).

Ain't we humane!
Go for it Sup. Ya might just be on to something!

On door locks in schools: the media never mentions that Cruz defeated every single one by simply pulling the fire alarm.
He's been to school, and knows the drill. Presto, hallway full of targets and nobody can fight back.

 

[Dutchboy]

I'm not a chemist, just a poor Cop. But it sure sounds nasty!

In reference to my water cannon, post # 10, why not put that stuff in a "Super Soaker", to give ya some distance!

 

[Supervisor42]

I'm not a chemist, just a poor Cop. But it sure sounds nasty!

In reference to my water cannon, post # 10, why not put that stuff in a "Super Soaker", to give ya some distance!

You can put 250 psi of propellant in a canister that a supersoaker can't handle.
With a straight nozzle, it would easily "outgun" a supersoaker.

Edit: so how long do you think he could walk around wearing a cup of evaporating chloroform in his clothing? I don't think it'll be 6 minutes.

 

[Dutchboy]

Well, i guess something like this is surely better than nothing......I like it!

 

[Retired1]

A young man has developed a classroom door lock that is superior to normal door locks.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...vice-to-protect-students-during-shooting.html

 

[Dutchboy]

But being a Cop, I know I would be happier with a pistol on my hip!

 

[Dutchboy]

Kudos to this young man. This is what good ole American ingenuity is all about!:green man:

 

[Supervisor42]

You can put 250 psi of propellant in a canister that a supersoaker can't handle.
With a straight nozzle, it would easily "outgun" a supersoaker.

Edit: so how long do you think he could walk around wearing a cup of evaporating chloroform in his clothing? I don't think it'll be 6 minutes.

I actually believe a potent airway irritant would be a much better 'solution' (pardon the pun).

I'll tell a little story. When I was growing up, I was a skinny little runt the size of a kid 2 years younger and was always getting beat up.
I asked my dad for help and he showed me how to put someone in a head-lock (aka: sleeper-hold). He put his face close to mine and said:
"a person that can't breathe, can't fight".
Later that week when some mean kid was about to whip me, I grabbed one of his hands, did the doe-se-doe putting his arm behind his back and wrapped my bony arm around his neck.
I pulled with all my might.
When his screams died down, I turned loose. He dropped to the ground.
Word got out and I didn't get beat-up anymore.

 

[Dutchboy]

In the Coast Guard and in the Police Academy, you are taught to Never, Ever give up! Just don't freeze or stop, and do whatever it takes to overcome!

I think your old man taught you right Sup!

 

[Supervisor42]

But being a Cop, I know I would be happier with a pistol on my hip!

If you were to be able to shoot a BG with something that immediately makes him double-over choking and gasping for air, a pistol may become as outdated as the night-stick.

Edit: Think chemical "choke-hold".

 

[Dutchboy]

If you were to be able to shoot a BG with something that immediately makes him double-over choking and gasping for air, a pistol may become as outdated as the night-stick.

Edit: Think chemical "choke-hold".

I would not have a problem with that, as that may in fact be true. However when you've been carrying a pistol on your hip for almost 30 years, it's hard to be without one!

BTW, "night sticks" as you call them are in no way outdated. They are still some Officers who carried them to this day, ie. Monandocks, PR-24's, expanding/collapsing batons, peacekeeper rcb, riot sticks, etc.

In fact in NJ, many agencies required you to qualify and recert annually, if you choose to carry them.

Tasers seem to be the big thing nowadays.

 

[Ten ese]

O.K. Just to play "Devil's Advocate" here, WHICH of you retired LEOs is willing to take the best canister of whatever you can come up with, and face me at 15-30 feet, with me having a loaded AR15 at the ready?

 

[Retired1]

Just for the sake of friendly discussion (I would prefer to engage a school shooter armed with an AR15 from afar - like anything over 600 yds, with a Barrett .50 or a PR in .338 Lapua) there is one canister weapon that may be 'almost' what could be considered an equalizer -

http://store.xm42.com/XM42-M-Flamethrower-p/xm42-m-black.htm

 

[Dutchboy]

LMAO Ten ese, not me bro!!!

Like I said in my post #69, I would feel much better with a gun on my hip!!!

Hey Terry, on sale those Flamethrowers ain't bad!

 

[Ten ese]

Can we be real here folks and stop with the "feel good" approaches to "deadly force".........While not meant to demean or lesson anyone's post on here, we are simply fooling ourselves into thinking that batons and OC are effective defensive weapons, instruments and or tools against firearms!
These are close quarter defensive weapons and "not on par with someone with a firearm"!

Yup. "REALITY CHECK ON AISLE SIX."

 

[Ten ese]

I will just point out that FOUR TRAINED LEOs, armed with hand guns, refused to go into the building to combat the shooter.

So, we are supposed to expect TEACHERS, whose primary duty is to stand in front of students and talk, are going to take up weapons, and fight against a shooter with a semi-auto weapon???????

Let's get real, here. Even if every teacher and administrator were TRAINED and ARMED with AR15s, someone is still going to die, IF a killer gets into the school with a firearm. Arming them with anything less, will only increase the number that the bad guys will kill, before they are stopped.

The BOTTOM LINE is that the ONLY way to protect the children, is to prevent any unauthorized person with a firearm getting into the school, in the first place. "GUN FREE ZONE" signs DO NOT prevent anyone from doing anything.

Arming the teachers will NOT prevent anyone from entering the schools. There would be a "deterrent effect" of making it publicly known that teachers are armed, and it will stop the cowards, but it will NOT stop an agenda driven, drugged-out, mind-altered wacko from coming into the school with a firearm, intent on doing mayhem.

The only logical conclusion is to turn the schools into hardened facilities with extreme security measures, as has already been suggested. Arming key school staff would be an additional safety margin.

We have to face the fact that we now live in an insane world that DEMANDS extreme measures, to keep our future citizens alive.

The only other alternative (which I prefer) is to TOTALLY BOYCOTT the gubmint indoctrination system, known as "Public School," and Home School our children. This alternative is not viable for most families, but it does work for some.

 

[Dutchboy]

Ten ese, I'm not sure what happen with those four Officers and it would certainly be wrong of me to play Monday morning quarterback at this stage. Did they freeze, get scared, ordered to stand down, who knows?

One thing I can remember, is that subsequent to one of those school shootings, I think it was Columbine, (it's been so damn many), the tactical engagement procedures changed for most of LE.

Whereas in the past, Officers or first responders were taught to maintain their current positions and not engage the shooter until SWAT or SRT arrived on scene. Obvious, this took some time for mobilization and during such, innocent lives were lost.

This tactic has change whereby first responders or Officers are now required to engage the shooter with the intent to neutralize and or contain the threat in place while waiting for SWAT. If, and I say if, this is that agencies policy, then those Officers were in fact wrong or insubordinate for not engaging the shooter. Again, I don't know?

We must also keep in mind that the United States Supreme Court has already ruled (DeShaney v. Winnebago County (1989) and Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005), that the Police have no affirmative requirement or obligation to protect the general public! Again, how this comes into play, I don't know?

Realizing all of this, it would appear that "Target Hardening" as you noted should be one such logical conclusion in addressing this issue.

 

[Supervisor42]

There would be a "deterrent effect" of making it publicly known that teachers are armed, and it will stop the cowards, ...

Couldn't have said it better myself! I don't know how many teachers you know, but almost all are liberal Democrats that will never touch a gun, even if their life depended on it because their pay comes from the govt.
Scratch the efficacy of armed teachers.
As Dutchboy said, don't count on cops doing anything more than setting up a "secure perimeter". They solve crimes that have occurred, not protect people. Most shootings are over before they get there anyway. Scratch that.
OC is almost useless against a firearm. Scratch that.
You can't turn every school into a maximum-security prison with one way in or out, hundreds need to pass in and out every day in less than 30 minutes.
Metal detectors, scratch that.
Schools also are poor. They barely have enough resources to teach our young above idiot level. They can't afford even a single Barney Fyffe.
Armed guards, scratch that.
It's easy to sit on the sidelines and een ideas that are offered up.
But as my dad said: "before you complain, be ready to offer a solution".
Blank slate for you: building full of hundreds of unarmed kids guarded by a couple-dozen unarmed snowflakes that won't touch a gun.
Gunman walks in with a crowd of students and shoots the first person that accosts him. He pulls the fire alarm and every locked door flies open.

Everybody is waiting to hear your solution(s).

Go!

 

[Supervisor42]

And if you don't think inhaling a little of the wrong kind of vapor can have an immediate and profound effect on your functioning, ask Caryl Chessman:

(oh wait, he's dead, nevermind)

 

[havasu]

A school is such a soft target that I'm surprised has not been utilized by some Radical Muslim. Then, you will see things change. What this change is, I have no idea, but something will change.

 

[Supervisor42]

A school is such a soft target that I'm surprised has not been utilized by some Radical Muslim. Then, you will see things change. What this change is, I have no idea, but something will change.

Precisely! They are sitting ducks. They have nothing (not including Limestone County).
The libs putting up the "Unarmed Victims Inside" sign certainly didn't help matters.
I invite all members to brainstorm anything to help.
Spears, crossbows (too gun-like), slingshots, something to throw that's larger than a PDF file of a textbook....anything.

 

[Retired1]

A school is such a soft target that I'm surprised has not been utilized by some Radical Muslim. Then, you will see things change. What this change is, I have no idea, but something will change.

Actually, that has already been done, albeit it was in Russia, with catastrophic consequences. Unfortunately, it seems few that could take constructive action believe it could happen here. I think it is just a matter of time before it does happen here. The radical Muslim terrorists hate the USA so much, that they will become focused, now that they have suffered such great losses in parts of the Middle East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

 

[Supervisor42]

Actually, that has already been done, albeit it was in Russia, with catastrophic consequences. Unfortunately, it seems few that could take constructive action believe it could happen here. I think it is just a matter of time before it does happen here. The radical Muslim terrorists hate the USA so much, that they will become focused, now that they have suffered such great losses in parts of the Middle East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

Outstanding post! 186 children killed. We advertise our soft targets and it's only a matter of time before ISIS realizes our children are completely defenseless (except Limestone County) and shows us what a mass-shooting 'done right' looks like .
I'm stealing the "take constructive action" words.
We're surrounded by people that won't hesitate to express their disapproval of any efforts to mitigate this threat. But offer nothing (which will get kids killed) instead.
Tazers in every classroom!:green man:
While we're waiting for Ten ese's solution(s), I'll add some facts. The media made no mention that Cruz was wearing a vest as shown on page#3 of the police report.
(sorry, it's not available in the US because you can't handle the truth!).
So with a BP vest, you can scratch Tazers off the list, as well as handguns for being anything but marginally effective.
Pursuing the challenge in post #81, what can we do to help keep these defenseless people from being slaughtered? Anything?
Attack dog outside the office by the front door!!!
Totally fearless!
Sick'em boy!!!

Humorous, unworkable, but better than what most schools have now (except Limestone County).
(If I offend anyone, it's only because I feel strongly about this and want to :stir pot:, not because I don't like, respect and admire everyone here).

 

[Ten ese]

While we're waiting for Ten ese's solution(s), I'll add some facts.

I already offered my solution(s) in earlier posts, and in the one you quoted.

Why don't we FIRST eliminate the "Soft Target" status, by removing the GUN FREE ZONE designation. Make it legal again, for law abiding citizens (especially parents) to go to the school grounds, armed.

If the libtard teachers and staff are too wussy to get trained, then recruit volunteer armed guards.