Off grid power options and what do you use?

[Biggkidd]

I have been off grid for 16 years now. For the first couple years we relied mainly on generators. For the last 14 or so years mainly on solar with a gas generator only picking up any shortfalls. Now I'm looking hard in to wind power to pick up where solar leaves off. The wind has been blowing like crazy here this spring and today is so windy it makes it hard to even work outside. I live in Virginia where we supposedly don't get enough wind to make viable power. But I also live in a small micro climate that may get a little more wind than most in the general area. It's hill and valley country so there's most always a little breeze except maybe in the dead of summer and winter. Does anyone here use wind power? If so what can you tell me about your system and how you like it / how it works for you? What kind of expense was it? Are any of the less expensive wind generators any good?

Back in I think it was 2012 I also played with steam power generation and made a small working system from scratch out of junk. It never went anywhere because it had to be constantly babied and monitored. I did post a couple short videos on youtube back then if anyone wants to see they are under biggkidd71. IIRC the best I ever managed with what I had put together was about 30 amps at 12 volts nominal. It showed me if I had to I could make power that way. It's not the route I'd choose though, more of a last option.

I have also been playing with thermoelectric power generation and storage for the last few years but not having the best of luck so far. I'm not done with this yet but this time of year that project has to be put off to the side for now.

What I'd like to know is how others produce power and if you have more than one what option has worked best for you? What is the most cost effective and longest lasting?

What I'm really interested in is other ways to make power when the sun isn't shining. We get a fair amount of cloud cover and in summer the idiots in charge load the sky with chemicals that really dull the sun and cuts my power production by half or better. The summer heat also cuts solar power output. The hotter the panels are they less power they produce.

We have two creeks on the property but they aren't viable for power production on several levels. The main one being they just don't have enough fall in the allowed distance. They also flood very violently every time it storms. The water level rises about 5 feet and goes from nearly no flow to a tremendous flow!

Please help me out here ladies and gents how do you make power for life off the main grid. Maybe I should say on your micro grid because in reality that's what we all have if we have a home power system, as it is our own tiny micro grid.

 

[12icemaker]

If you have a flowing stream and 5 feet of fall you can build a dam and have enough to do a water wheel flywheel type system you can also build a spilway diversion gate system simply by making the entry into your pool the same size as the exit and building a stepback wall to prevent flood water from over running your system.

 

[Biggkidd]

If you have a flowing stream and 5 feet of fall you can build a dam and have enough to do a water wheel flywheel type system you can also build a spilway diversion gate system simply by making the entry into your pool the same size as the exit and building a stepback wall to prevent flood water from over running your system.

The creek that flows year round not just when it rains, only has about 1 inch of fall per hundred feet. I only have access to about 180 feet of it and to make matters worse it's 24 feet wide where it joins my land.

 

[Tirediron]

If you decide to go with wind, horizontal axis squirrel cage is exponentialy better than airplane propeller crap (big government/ big business mess. a swather reel type horizontal is quiet and really doesn't care about turbulence. but don't tell the experts

 

[viking]

I did some research a few years ago and I came across vertical axis squirrel cage wind generators, from what I understood they are commonly used on sailboats, I like the idea but where we live, winds are infrequent and don't last long enough to do any backup charging. I'd love to have a water source up on the mountain that has enough output to run a Pelton wheel for generating but they are rare and far between here in S.W. Oregon. The best thing I have come to understand is the use of higher voltage output solar panels and using a MPPT solar controller to make the best use of those higher voltages. Yesterday I checked on the electrolyte levels in the battery banks and checked on the solar array output voltages late in the day and they were putting out 80 VDC just a short time before sunset and I've seen voltages in the 70's on cloudy days. A real plus in running on higher array voltages is that you don't have to use heavier wires to keep from having large voltage drops. If you have bought any copper wire lately you know that it's gotten expensive.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I did some research a few years ago and I came across vertical axis squirrel cage wind generators, from what I understood they are commonly used on sailboats, I like the idea but where we live, winds are infrequent and don't last long enough to do any backup charging. I'd love to have a water source up on the mountain that has enough output to run a Pelton wheel for generating but they are rare and far between here in S.W. Oregon. The best thing I have come to understand is the use of higher voltage output solar panels and using a MPPT solar controller to make the best use of those higher voltages. Yesterday I checked on the electrolyte levels in the battery banks and checked on the solar array output voltages late in the day and they were putting out 80 VDC just a short time before sunset and I've seen voltages in the 70's on cloudy days. A real plus in running on higher array voltages is that you don't have to use heavier wires to keep from having large voltage drops. If you have bought any copper wire lately you know that it's gotten expensive.

I'm running 10ga wires from my new panels to my charge controller 200 feet away. I'm getting plenty of power this time of year. It's been about 3 weeks since my generator has had to start. These new panels have really been paying for themselves in diesel savings.

 

[dbarrett]

I saw a video a while back where someone was explaining why the small wind turbines are generally no worth it unless you live somewhere where the wind is constant. The person basically explained the physics that a small (home) wind turbine can never generate enough power for any practical use because the magnet size is too small. That was quite depressing. Anyone have a different experience?

 

[Mountain trapper]

I saw a video a while back where someone was explaining why the small wind turbines are generally no worth it unless you live somewhere where the wind is constant. The person basically explained the physics that a small (home) wind turbine can never generate enough power for any practical use because the magnet size is too small. That was quite depressing. Anyone have a different experience?

I've been looking in to buying a wind generator to supplement my solar system. I would never consider a wind turbine for my primary power. They're too unreliable. During fall, winter and spring, we get enough wind, usually at night, that for my application it could be worth the cost. My goal is to reduce my year round generator run time to almost zero. Last year I added 4 additional solar panels at 415 watts each. Also added 12 new 2 volt batteries at 1169 AH's each. My year round average generator run time was reduced from 4 hours per day to less than 30 minutes average over 12 months. The ROI in diesel savings is less than 18 months.

 

[Neb]

I saw a video a while back where someone was explaining why the small wind turbines are generally no worth it unless you live somewhere where the wind is constant. The person basically explained the physics that a small (home) wind turbine can never generate enough power for any practical use because the magnet size is too small. That was quite depressing. Anyone have a different experience?

Worth it?
I have a wind turbine stashed in a Faraday cage for post SHTF. It will be very valuable if the grid goes down.

Small magnets...

Maxwell's equations

Faraday's law (3) says the magnitude of the induced voltage is proportional to the magnetic field.

Ben


Ben

 

[viking]

Sun light, we get plenty of, Wind, very little, so little in fact that it's just not economically feasible to go that route. I only have a total of 1,560 watts from our solar array but due to an average daily voltage of 80 volts DC, from the time the sun shines on the array until sunset the six battery banks of four batteries each stay constantly topped off. Our solar backup system only comes on when the grid goes down, so in most cases the batteries seldom go below a 50% charge. Unless I see the lights blink or see the grid only ceiling light go off, it's not always easy to know if we are running on the solar backup system. Believe me, I've done a lot of research on wind generators, I really like the idea but we'd have to live in an area that has almost constant winds to make the wind generator worthwhile, kind of like living out on the deserts of northern Nevada, for example.

 

[Biggkidd]

I think I want to add wind here for supplemental power to my solar power. Often times HERE when the sun isn't shining the wind is blowing. Not a lot but some, enough I believe to be worthwhile.

 

[lonewolf]

when I was off grid it was candles and storm lanterns.

 

[Magpie]

I saw a video a while back where someone was explaining why the small wind turbines are generally no worth it unless you live somewhere where the wind is constant. The person basically explained the physics that a small (home) wind turbine can never generate enough power for any practical use because the magnet size is too small. That was quite depressing. Anyone have a different experience?

I looked into it here and was told the same. If I had permission to put it on the hill behind me it would be better.
We have never been able to afford to go off grid, much as I'd like to. Like Lonewolf, its candles here.
Though I have a small solar light kit with bulbs, that throws excellent light and several wind up and solar torches. I have a pot belly stove, my oven is gas and I have a campstove.
Also a large generator to boost the freezers and pump, though never needed to use it for this yet. Just bought this below to run internet box, laptop/kindles etc as some work from home

Being without power here is never for weeks- I think the most was ever three days (other than work purposes now everyone is older) we just adjust life accordingly.

 

[Jim Costa]

Water Well Power Information Only.

We are a free Florida retreat for up to 60 persons. It was originally designed that way.

For any Prepper the number one problem is water.
We would have broken the problem down to Potable and Non-Potable water
but we are on the Florida aquifer so purification doesn't matter.

Our First Step was to install 6 water heaters, with most raised off the ground,
allowing a garden hose to drain most of the bottom. (several were used and free).
The kitchen has a 4'X4' food grade storage cube for water.

Secondly we added a second well (175 feet) as a backup.
Both electric well pumps are 220volt, 20 amp motors.

We also have (2) Coleman gasoline generators (10 hp, 6250), one as a backup.
One will easily power either well pump.

We believe running the well 60 minutes per day will fill them up for the day.
We have ample gasoline storage.

Lastly per our plan, we cut the water demand in half by converting to the
Human Manure toilet/compost methods.

A few years later we added a $50,000 solar battery back-up system,
so now it will be our primary power source for water.

 

[user 7404]

I've been looking in to buying a wind generator to supplement my solar system. I would never consider a wind turbine for my primary power. They're too unreliable. During fall, winter and spring, we get enough wind, usually at night, that for my application it could be worth the cost. My goal is to reduce my year round generator run time to almost zero. Last year I added 4 additional solar panels at 415 watts each. Also added 12 new 2 volt batteries at 1169 AH's each. My year round average generator run time was reduced from 4 hours per day to less than 30 minutes average over 12 months. The ROI in diesel savings is less than 18 months.

I am a master electrician with 40 years experience. When it comes to off grid power I think solar is fine, wind power is ok but a little more maintenance is required. As long as you can charge an adequate battery bank battery you should be ok. A comfortable operating system should be between 5 to 10 kilowatts, depending on "how comfortable" one wants too be. When all else fails a fuel-powered generator should be your backup to charge batteries. I installed a 10 KW solar system, I can operate everything just fine. Now, ....to be real and to play devil's advocate: what happens "IF" there is a manmade or natural occurrence that blocks out the sun for an undetermined period? What about EMP strikes? extended Winters? Either would make any system rather redundant. This is where one must think of having a backup system put away and as NED pointed out protected by some sort of "Faraday" cage (something I still do not have). There is so much to really take into account, if one is to be "truly prepared". Besides the doom and gloom, with a solar and wind generator system one should be well set up with little worry.

 

[user 7404]

Just a tip for people who have gas powered generators; that are not in frequent use. It is wise to run your generator at least every 3 months, even if it's only for 5 or 10 minutes, plug a load into it also (it likes it). I see so many generators that I fix only because they sit too long unused. Sitting too long can cause a series of problems......so exercise your gens folks.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I am a master electrician with 40 years experience. When it comes to off grid power I think solar is fine, wind power is ok but a little more maintenance is required. As long as you can charge an adequate battery bank battery you should be ok. A comfortable operating system should be between 5 to 10 kilowatts, depending on "how comfortable" one wants too be. When all else fails a fuel-powered generator should be your backup to charge batteries. I installed a 10 KW solar system, I can operate everything just fine. Now, ....to be real and to play devil's advocate: what happens "IF" there is a manmade or natural occurrence that blocks out the sun for an undetermined period? What about EMP strikes? extended Winters? Either would make any system rather redundant. This is where one must think of having a backup system put away and as NED pointed out protected by some sort of "Faraday" cage (something I still do not have). There is so much to really take into account, if one is to be "truly prepared". Besides the doom and gloom, with a solar and wind generator system one should be well set up with little worry.

I have a 12kw Perkins diesel for my backup, with 400 gallons of off-road diesel. My inverter is programmed to automatically start the generator when the battery bank drops to 23.9 volts, and run for 4 hours, or to Float charging the battery bank. This time of year my solar panels provide all the electricity that we need. We use propane for cooking, clothes dryer and a tankless water. We heat with wood, but have a backup gas furnace with heat pump. We have all electric appliances with 2 large freezers, 3 door fridge in the house and another fridge in my fur shed. Whenever I run a large tool, like a table saw, I'll run it off another generator. My well pump runs off a separate 12kw propane generator with auto start. It also have an electronic timer switch that controls when the generator starts, when the pump starts, and when it shuts down.
If a person didn't know better, they wouldn't know that we're off grid.
My thoughts with the wind generator is to make up the little shortfall in winter to reduce the generator run time.

 

[user 7404]

I have a 12kw Perkins diesel for my backup, with 400 gallons of off-road diesel. My inverter is programmed to automatically start the generator when the battery bank drops to 23.9 volts, and run for 4 hours, or to Float charging the battery bank. This time of year my solar panels provide all the electricity that we need. We use propane for cooking, clothes dryer and a tankless water. We heat with wood, but have a backup gas furnace with heat pump. We have all electric appliances with 2 large freezers, 3 door fridge in the house and another fridge in my fur shed. Whenever I run a large tool, like a table saw, I'll run it off another generator. My well pump runs off a separate 12kw propane generator with auto start. It also have an electronic timer switch that controls when the generator starts, when the pump starts, and when it shuts down.
If a person didn't know better, they wouldn't know that we're off grid.
My thoughts with the wind generator is to make up the little shortfall in winter to reduce the generator run time.

You are well set up MT. Good job!

 

[GreenAndSwirly]

I'm just here to learn, we have a 12v solar panel to charge phones and a couple of solar hanging lamps. The silo we're converting was used by my teen as alternative housing (aka he needed time away from us) last year, so that's all we had hooked up. The lights are decent since the silo is incredibly dark (we're going to add windows).
When we move over, we're planning to really just use oil lamps/propane generator/increase solar. We are "stealth camping" in it, since it's not actually allowable as a domicile in our area so we have to keep everything pretty small scale.
We're currently in a camper so it's all in planning stages, although I've been off grid as a kid and technically when I was homeless too.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I have a question here for the experts. Awhile back I bought a solar power kit. This kit included a 110 watt solar panel, charge controller and a 300 power inverter. I bought this kit to power 2 LED light tubes at 43 watts each for use in the chicken coop. I mounted the solar panel on a post attached to the coop, connected it to the charge controller then to a 12 volt deep cycle battery. The inverter was clamped to the battery and the lights were plugged in to the inverter. At most the lights are on for maybe 15 minutes a day. Everything worked great, and for awhile I was a hero to the wife. Then I got a fault on the inverter. Short story long, I replaced the charge controller. Still getting a fault. Next I replaced the inverter, still getting a fault. We pretty much given up on lights in the coop. I wrote to the company, Nature Power, describing the issues. They never bothered to respond.
So I'm hoping someone here may have an idea.

 

[Neb]

I have a question here for the experts. Awhile back I bought a solar power kit. This kit included a 110 watt solar panel, charge controller and a 300 power inverter. I bought this kit to power 2 LED light tubes at 43 watts each for use in the chicken coop. I mounted the solar panel on a post attached to the coop, connected it to the charge controller then to a 12 volt deep cycle battery. The inverter was clamped to the battery and the lights were plugged in to the inverter. At most the lights are on for maybe 15 minutes a day. Everything worked great, and for awhile I was a hero to the wife. Then I got a fault on the inverter. Short story long, I replaced the charge controller. Still getting a fault. Next I replaced the inverter, still getting a fault. We pretty much given up on lights in the coop. I wrote to the company, Nature Power, describing the issues. They never bothered to respond.
So I'm hoping someone here may have an idea.

Did you ever try swapping out the LED lights?

Ben

 

[Mountain trapper]

Did you ever try swapping out the LED lights?

Ben

No I didn't. They were brand new. I have one more new one in a box. I can swap it out tomorrow.

 

[Neb]

No I didn't. They were brand new. I have one more new one in a box. I can swap it out tomorrow.

Do you have an old school incandescent light you could try?

Are the charge controller and inverter tied to a common ground?

Any clue what type of fault?

Ben

 

[Mountain trapper]

Do you have an old school incandescent light you could try?

Are the charge controller and inverter tied to a common ground?

Any clue what type of fault?

Ben

I'll have to look around for an incandescent bulb.
The inverter doesn't indicate what kind of fault. Just a red light and a buzzer sound.

 

[Neb]

I'll have to look around for an incandescent bulb.
The inverter doesn't indicate what kind of fault. Just a red light and a buzzer sound.

Bummer.

That is the equivalent of "It's broke".

Use a meter to record all of the voltages etc when it is working. Measure again when it fails????

Ben

 

[Mountain trapper]

Bummer.

That is the equivalent of "It's broke".

Use a meter to record all of the voltages etc when it is working. Measure again when it fails????

Ben

I checked it a few days ago. I'll go check it again because I don't exactly remember the numbers. It seems like the solar panel was putting out 22 volts but I could be wrong.
I have another set up at the pump house generator, just like the one at the coop, to keep the battery charged. I'm not using the inverter on that application. It just keeps the battery charged.

 

[DrHenley]

My system is still evolving. At the moment I have a four panel array hooked up to a deep cycle marine battery bank, a new two panel array hooked up to a LiFePO4 battery bank, and a propane genny backup. This is for a 28 ft camper at the BOL.

I've already discovered that the LiFePO4 battery bank outperforms the marine deep cycle battery bank, especially in cold weather, even though the theoretical capacity is less than half.

What uses the most power is the blower on the furnace, so when the temps drop below freezing, the blower running a lot, plus the voltage drop on the lead acid battery bank from the cold causes the battery bank to run down considerably overnight - too much for the solar panels to recharge the next day so I have to use the generator to finish topping off the batteries before going to bed.

LiFePO4 batteries are coming down in price and at some point I will be building up a larger LiFePO4 battery bank.

The power converter in the camper is not compatible with LiFePO4 batteries at all, nor is the inverter/charger/transfer switch. I have all the hardware for changing everything out, it will just take some time to rearrange a lot of things and do some rewiring. I will place the LiFePO4 battery bank inside (not an option with the lead acid deep cycle batteries)

 

[zoomzoom]

I have a question here for the experts. Awhile back I bought a solar power kit. This kit included a 110 watt solar panel, charge controller and a 300 power inverter. I bought this kit to power 2 LED light tubes at 43 watts each for use in the chicken coop. I mounted the solar panel on a post attached to the coop, connected it to the charge controller then to a 12 volt deep cycle battery. The inverter was clamped to the battery and the lights were plugged in to the inverter. At most the lights are on for maybe 15 minutes a day. Everything worked great, and for awhile I was a hero to the wife. Then I got a fault on the inverter. Short story long, I replaced the charge controller. Still getting a fault. Next I replaced the inverter, still getting a fault. We pretty much given up on lights in the coop. I wrote to the company, Nature Power, describing the issues. They never bothered to respond.
So I'm hoping someone here may have an idea.

Bolding in your post is mine.
Speaking for my system (Renogy panels & charge controller) with 4 LiFePO4 batteries, the manufacturer says to do connections in this sequence:
Connect battery to charge controller first. Connect (-) then (+)
Set the battery type on the charge controller.
Cover the solar panels before connecting to charge controller or keep them face down.
Connect panel (-) to charge controller cable (-)
Connect panel (+) to charge controller cable (+)

The underlined one is the most important. If you connect your panels to the charge controller first, you've juiced the controller but it has no place to send the output (to the batteries) and it could then damage your charge controller.

Going to your issue of the fault at the inverter
When I've gotten that issue, it was the battery. Check the battery voltage using a volt meter. If it reads good, get a load test done on the battery to see if it has adequate AMPs to run the inverter.

Or, take your inverter and connect it to a known good battery that can handle the inverter (e.g. your vehicle battery) and see if you still get the fault.

 

[Dave2001]

when I was off grid it was candles and storm lanterns.

I have whole house generator hooked to my natural gas line

 

[OldSchool]

Do you have an old school incandescent light you could try?

...............

Ben

Good source of heat. Light is a byproduct.