Plain Stupid

[TexasFreedom]

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/br...-loans-of-entire-2019-class-worth-40-million/

A billionaire was asked to do a college graduation speech. Robert Smith at Morehouse College. In his speech, he said he's setting up a grant to pay off the student loans of the 400 graduates. Total is around $40 million. So the AVERAGE college student was graduating with $100k in student loans? Average. So many kids have far more debt.

This guy must be a liberal. While many look at this as generous, very generous, I think this is a horrible precedent, teaching kids to just borrow more and a magic genie will someday pay it off.

 

[Petoski]

From a government point of view student debt was a genius idea. Sell the idea of a better future through education and as the same time trap the young in a lifetime of slavery.

 

[jontte]

but,but,but...there's a genie who pays off any debt I do?? isn't there???

 

[Brent S]

I read an article that said he only gave to black charities. While I commend anyone that helps others, isn’t that flat out racist in today’s age? If a white man said he would only give to white charities he would be crucified!
Seriously, I’m happy for the students good fortune. One of them had 200,000. of debt. Can you even imagine starting life out with that kind of loan? It really is a form of slavery.
This stupidity of going to college and just borrowing cash to pay tuition and living expenses is nuts. I could live with state colleges being government subsidized maybe, but giving kids a four year free ride is insane. I’m sure when a liberal swing comes back in power we will have these loans forgiven and added to our unsustainable national debt. All I can say for sure is I am glad I prep as I see an economic train wreck coming down the line.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Brent is 100% on target. Blacks only helping blacks is great, but a white guy only (or even more often) helping whites is massively racist. Double standard, but typical of liberals. I think kids today will do much better with a good vocation than with a college degree. Start as an plumbing apprentice, learn the trade. Learn to deal with customers, get good at it. You'll be a qualified technician before other kids are out of school in 4,5,6... years. And that plumber can start his own business are really start making some money.

An apprentice plumber might only make $20-40k/yr in those first 5 years. But after 5 years, you'll have made $150k. Meanwhile the average student will accrue $100k in debt. Average loan is stilling at 7%, so call that a $10k/year for 20 year debt. An average college grad starts at $50k.

So we are 5 years into this. The college kid is out of school with $100k in debt ($10k/yr for 20 yrs) and no income for the past 5 years. And at the same time the plumber has banked $150k and is getting close to the $50k/yr salary.

So this plumber is taking home maybe $10k/yr more for the next decade+ and has $150k head start. So it works out to about $250k advantage for a plumber over your average college graduate today.

OH, and I forgot the brainwashing. Colleges will do their best to turn kids into socialists/communists. While the plumber learns how the real world works? I don't know how to put a value on that, but I think it's fair to 'value' that at $100k on average. So we're at a $350k advantage.

AND, of course that doesn't factor in all the kids who don't go to work in the field of the college degree they get or even get a degree. Those kids get a 2-4 year delay with a $40-70k debt, AND start at the $20k salary as a plumbers apprentice just years later.

 

[Brent S]

I have always wondered why no one thinks being an apprentice for 4 or 5 years, and getting paid for it, is not worth as much as a college degree. When your an apprentice you start making money from day one. By the end of the 4or 5 years you are starting to make decent money and aren’t in debt. With the average degree your in debt up to your ass, and just starting a new job, usually at a lower wage. Even though I don’t always agree with TF on a lot of issues, this is good common sense.

 

[tmttactical]

Want to look at trade income, check out what an elevator journeyman makes. Doctors and lawyers will hang their heads.

 

[DrHenley]

Want to look at trade income, check out what an elevator journeyman makes. Doctors and lawyers will hang their heads.

Reminds me of a joke...

Doctor calls a plumber. Plumber comes and fixes doctor's plumbing and hands him the bill.
Doctor says "Damn, I don't make that much money and I'm a doctor!"
Plumber says "Yeah, I didn't make that much money when I was a doctor either."

 

[user 6493]

I have seen college grads flipping burgers at Mickey Ds,,,,,,,,sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[KateMTx]

These private colleges are charging ridiculous prices to teach things that could be learned much more cheaply. And then state colleges are generally kind of terrible (depending on what you study). So it's a lose-lose. Of course we need good colleges so we can have doctors, nurses, engineers, etc. But not everyone needs to go to college. There are plenty of very needed jobs that don't require a degree and we need to teach kids that it is good to work hard and make a living, even if it's not "glamorous."

 

[user 6493]

there are a lot of jobs out there that pay minimum wage or just a little more,,,the guy who puts tires on your car that kid flipping burgers,the girl behind the cash register ,the list goes on and on ,most people don't even notice these workers or they laugh at them ,,,

they make the world go around and get little or no recognition for their work,,

I see them every day driving their old beat up cars living in places most would not set foot,

, where would we be without them ????????

 

[KateMTx]

there are a lot of jobs out there that pay minimum wage or just a little more,,,the guy who puts tires on your car that kid flipping burgers,the girl behind the cash register ,the list goes on and on ,most people don't even notice these workers or they laugh at them ,,,

they make the world go around and get little or no recognition for their work,,

I see them every day driving their old beat up cars living in places most would not set foot,

, where would we be without them ????????

I was talking with someone the other day - they have a good job they enjoy, make a living, good benefits. But then they are ashamed because they are "poor." Sure, they could benefit from learning to manage their money a little better. But it's not shameful or embarrassing to not be "rich." Social media contributes to this idea, especially among us younger people, because "everyone" is posting on instagram about their "lifestyle" and then people have to keep up or feel left out. But a decent job and a simple life sure beats $100,000 in student loans.

 

[TexasFreedom]

A side note. Your 'income' is not a good indicator of being 'poor'. I've known far too many guys making $100k and didn't have $1000 in their checking account. It's not just about your income level, but living within your means and 'paying yourself' (aka saving). They drove a nice new leased car, rent a fancy apartment, and get every new gadget the week they come out. But they don't have enough money to pay attention.

And another side note, I have a real issue with people who talk about a 'living wage'. There are lots of jobs that are starter jobs. Flipping burgers. Stocking shelves. Any job that takes 5 minutes to learn & a 17 year old can do. Those workers aren't expected to pay rent & meals from that salary. They are learning to follow instructions, deal with customers, make change, show up on time clean & ready to work. They gain far more in skill training than their salary. The idea is they do this for a year or two and move up to higher-skilled jobs which pay higher salaries.

I have far more respect for a guy driving a wreck he can afford than a guy driving a nice truck but won't provide the basics for his kids.

 

[user 6493]

a lot of those people have kids to raise,it would be nice for them to be able to afford food and gas in the car,and not have to get a Government hand out to make ends meet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,which so many of you don't think they deserve


I'm going to bed,,,this is a waste of time

 

[TexasFreedom]

a lot of those people have kids to raise,it would be nice for them to be able to afford food and gas in the car,and not have to get a Government hand out to make ends meet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,which so many of you don't think they deserve

GG, are you referencing what I wrote above?

And another side note, I have a real issue with people who talk about a 'living wage'. There are lots of jobs that are starter jobs. Flipping burgers. Stocking shelves. Any job that takes 5 minutes to learn & a 17 year old can do. Those workers aren't expected to pay rent & meals from that salary. They are learning to follow instructions, deal with customers, make change, show up on time clean & ready to work. They gain far more in skill training than their salary. The idea is they do this for a year or two and move up to higher-skilled jobs which pay higher salaries.

Let me be even more blunt, but with more details. Someone who flips burgers or stocks shelves is performing at the level of "Stupid". That's not an insult, that's an assessment of their current abilities. I once was at that level and worked that sort of a job. 99% of these folks are young and learning and living with mom & dad. I am 1000% percent against paying somebody more than the job is worth because of their 'needs'. That's socialism pure and straight.

I am 1000% also in favor of training that unskilled person with a fair wage to become worth a higher salary. He needs to learn a trade, a skill. Carpenter, mason, plumber, whatever. Higher skill = higher salary.

You remember a few weeks ago I mentioned I was going to hire a young man? He's a moron, former druggie, early 20's, no skills, but he's trying to turn his life around. One example is that he's never painted anything, never used a paint brush. Well, while you moan and groan, I did hire him & I'm paying him at least 25% more than his skill is worth. That's ok, I consider it part of my ministry and I've already heard back from people in his life that working for me has already made meaningful differences in him. But yesterday I didn't stay on top of him, and he spent a good 5+ hours today fixing what he didn't do right yesterday. Do you ever consider the value of the time invested by the boss (aka 'mentor') to help these younger folks learn skills to move upward in their career? You may consider me a heartless jerk, but I'm the best friend that young man has right now and I'm investing into his future. I challenge you to step up for a young man in your community and mentor him toward a brighter future. And tell us how it goes, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Entry level jobs are just that, entry level. They aren't meant to pay a "living" wage. Even that is very subjective. What one person considers a living wage, another person wouldn't. And just how is it decided what a living wage is? No, the market and the employer decides (should) what wage to pay for each job. Not the government.
If a person wants a job that pays a living wage, then they need to learn the skills necessary to bring value to an employer. And put in the time. I never worked as a burger flipper before but I cant imagine why it would pay more than a very basic wage. Again, it's an entry level position and takes little to no skill to preform.
I've never worked for minimum wage in my life. When I first started working full time at 16 I never heard of minimum wage. My employer offered me a wage and I either accepted it or I didn't.
When I hired my current ranch hand I asked him what he wanted to be paid. We discussed it over a few beers and came to an agreement that we were both happy with. He's a hard worker and brings some needed skills, he also provides his own horse. And of course I pay him a lot more than some no skilled burger flipper with no ambition in life.

FYI GG, the guys who change my tires all get by pretty well on the salary that they agreed to work for.

 

[user 6493]

you guys make it sound so simple,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when it's not,if what you say were the absolute gospel truth about work everyone would be making 50k by the time they were 30 years old,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,damn I wish you morons were right

 

[user 6493]

I ran a warehouse years ago,and there were several different positions besides mine, inside sales,outside sales Branch Manager,these 3 positions started at 35k 2 included a company car ,,,,it was a big company with over 100 branches scattered around the US,
at one point I was doing the whole thing with nothing more than some temp help from the local labor poor,,,do you think I was ever rewarded for covering the companys butt while they were in trouble,one guy got fired another had a injury and was out for half a year leaving me with a secretary and temp help,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in a single word no,not even a pat on the back


and how many secretary's make decent money,,,damned few,,,no there are holes all thru the philosophy held by some of those on this site



I have things I need to go do and sitting here with people who don't give a crap about those on the lower end of the pay scale is not on my list of things to do today

 

[TexasFreedom]

GG, it really is that simple. For a moron who can't step up from flipping burgers, I have another option. MILITARY. They'll start at $15-20k a year. And that comes with room, board, health insurance, 'mentorship'; and just about everything other than shaving cream. And if they can avoid getting ejected, promotions come fast.

There is also another option. QUIT. Find another job and go there. Bad bosses don't deserve good employees.

And $35k is not a bad salary. My first 'good' job with a college degree didn't pay that much. But in 5 years from then I grew some real skills and almost doubled my salary. That involved quitting and moving. Not everyone can do that, but it's possible and it's all based on what the employee can offer to a company (or start your own). My rule of thumb is that to pay someone $40k, they have to bring $80k into the company. Bring more value to my company and your salary will go up. And as I said, if someone is worth more & I fail to pay, I fully expect that person to quit & find another employer who will value their contribution. One example, one patent I filed was easily worth $50 million in profit in one year to the company. You can bet I brought that up when salary reviews came around that year

 

[user 6493]

GG, it really is that simple. For a moron who can't step up from flipping burgers, I have another option. MILITARY. They'll start at $15-20k a year. And that comes with room, board, health insurance, 'mentorship'; and just about everything other than shaving cream. And if they can avoid getting ejected, promotions come fast.

There is also another option. QUIT. Find another job and go there. Bad bosses don't deserve good employees.

And $35k is not a bad salary. My first 'good' job with a college degree didn't pay that much. But in 5 years from then I grew some real skills and almost doubled my salary. That involved quitting and moving. Not everyone can do that, but it's possible and it's all based on what the employee can offer to a company (or start your own). My rule of thumb is that to pay someone $40k, they have to bring $80k into the company. Bring more value to my company and your salary will go up. And as I said, if someone is worth more & I fail to pay, I fully expect that person to quit & find another employer who will value their contribution. One example, one patent I filed was easily worth $50 million in profit in one year to the company. You can bet I brought that up when salary reviews came around that year

TF you know my age,,,,,in that time working for someone else I never made more than 22k,,,,,,we all want to make that better money so you give it all you have ,doing things that you are not paid for thinking down the road you will move up and make better money in some cases this is exactly what happens,but most Employers if you show them what you can do they then expect this to be the norm and will USE AN EMPLOYEE AS LONG AS THAT EMPLOYEE WILL LET THEM ,,,, in 1991 I had saved enough money to work for myself it wasn't until that time I started making decent money 40k a year on average,,,, working for the public sector there are million of people who will never make a living wage,,,,,, and in my opinion the poverty that many people who work everyday live in is the fault of the Government and the Employers they work for,,,,,,, there are no laws enforcing a decent wage for workers only a minimum wage,,,,,,,,,,,,

this helps to create a welfare state of mind,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why should I go out bust my ass for minimum wage when I can sit at home and work the system and have just as much doing nothing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


now you think about those last 2 lines in this post,,,,go ahead tell me I'm wrong

 

[user 6493]

I have run out of time this morning I have a few things I need to go do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[TexasFreedom]

this helps to create a welfare state of mind,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why should I go out bust my ass for minimum wage when I can sit at home and work the system and have just as much doing nothing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

GG, I 100% agree with you. There are a 100 ways to look at it, but it all comes to the same. I think we just don't agree on how to address this problem. My thinking is that eliminating all forms of gov't welfare (that does not include SS) is the solution. People (legal & illegals) won't have a motive to do nothing. That means going to work. Either for a company or starting your own. I can't tell you how many people I know who do everything from mowing lawns to IT support to plumbing as their own boss, either as a primary or to supplement their income. Yes, it will be a rough start but our nation will be 1000% better for it.

 

[DrHenley]

There are times when you have to take whatever job you can find. Doesn't mean you have to stay there.

I've worked for $1.10 an hour working a road crew for the city. They were exempt from minimum wage. I haven't flipped burgers but I've worked a lot of different jobs across the whole spectrum. I moved up from the road crew to a factory job, then from that to a hospital job, and kept moving up a little bit at a time until I was a college professor and then an IT director.

 

[Mountain trapper]

you guys make it sound so simple,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when it's not,if what you say were the absolute gospel truth about work everyone would be making 50k by the time they were 30 years old,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,damn I wish you morons were right

No need for name calling GG. We just have a difference of opinion. But it really is that simple to be making 50k by the time your in yours 30's. Especially in today's economy. I surpassed it in my mid 20's, 36 years ago. It just takes hard work, doing what your boss tells you, keep your mouth shut, look for opportunities and to have a skill that is in demand. I started my career as a welders helper in a shop that manufactured logging, mining and heavy construction equipment. I learned how to weld on my own time, became a certified welder then a fabricator, worked every hour of over time that I could get and eventually moved up in to management. All over a 13 year period.
I think the real "morons" are those who are too lazy to achieve any real success in life, and then sit around whining about those of us who have.
The bottom line for me is that my family is healthy, happy and successful. And none of them have ever stepped foot in a college, but they did learn a strong work ethic at an early age.

 

[user 6493]

No need for name calling GG. We just have a difference of opinion. But it really is that simple to be making 50k by the time your in yours 30's. Especially in today's economy. I surpassed it in my mid 20's, 36 years ago. It just takes hard work, doing what your boss tells you, keep your mouth shut, look for opportunities and to have a skill that is in demand. I started my career as a welders helper in a shop that manufactured logging, mining and heavy construction equipment. I learned how to weld on my own time, became a certified welder then a fabricator, worked every hour of over time that I could get and eventually moved up in to management. All over a 13 year period.
I think the real "morons" are those who are too lazy to achieve any real success in life, and then sit around whining about those of us who have.
The bottom line for me is that my family is healthy, happy and successful. And none of them have ever stepped foot in a college, but they did learn a strong work ethic at an early age.

do you even pay attention to what you say???????????????????

it is not all about what you have accomplished,
-----------------------------------------------------
I am talking about Joe Average who might not have finished High School


everyone does not have the same opportunities ,lack of education or they just are not able to get a higher paying job,or location and the jobs are just not there and then there are those who simply are not smart enough to do much more than be the cart boy at Walmart,,,it is all factors in on how far a person can go

employers take advantage of workers everyday if you quit there is always someone else who will take your place,,,it's why wages are low at so many places,you are easily replaced


now you will come back with something along the lines of,,,go finish school,or they are lazy or move to a different area,,,,

yup,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know it all


you have a answer for everything

 

[user 7704]

I have seen college grads flipping burgers at Mickey Ds,,,,,,,,sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Most of them have degrees that can't be used in the real world.

 

[Mountain trapper]

do you even pay attention to what you say???????????????????

it is not all about what you have accomplished,
-----------------------------------------------------
I am talking about Joe Average who might not have finished High School


everyone does not have the same opportunities ,lack of education or they just are not able to get a higher paying job,or location and the jobs are just not there and then there are those who simply are not smart enough to do much more than be the cart boy at Walmart,,,it is all factors in on how far a person can go

employers take advantage of workers everyday if you quit there is always someone else who will take your place,,,it's why wages are low at so many places,you are easily replaced


now you will come back with something along the lines of,,,go finish school,or they are lazy or move to a different area,,,,

yup,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know it all


you have a answer for everything

Well GG I don't give a **** about "Joe average". Just my family.
No, I don't know everything, but I do know what it takes to be successful; hard work, commitment, no lazy gene and time. Yes, anyone can be successful in life if they apply themselves.

 

[user 6493]

Well GG I don't give a **** about "Joe average". Just my family.
No, I don't know everything, but I do know what it takes to be successful; hard work, commitment, no lazy gene and time. Yes, anyone can be successful in life if they apply themselves.

and there is the problem I have with you in a nutshell,,,all that matters to you is you and yours ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have never had much use for self centered people

 

[user 6493]

you once off handed called me a Socialist ,,,,even though I am not I would rather be that than you,,,,,,,,and I doubt you have half of what you claim to,,,,,,,,

 

[Proud Prepper]

Foolishness. Your both talking past each other. GG, don't let anger influence your decisions, let it fuel your determination.