Plain Stupid

[DrHenley]

Need I mention that for most people SS is not a handout. It's your money the government took away from you and is now giving it back.

 

[JackDW]

Dr Henley, I totally agree with you when it comes to SS. But then the Government, in all its wisdom (NOT), decided to STEAL part of those funds to fund disability and other pet projects. SS funds should ONLY be used to pay SS benefits. If the lamebrains in Washington want to pay for their PET project (disability), let them pass a separate fund to pay for it. KEEP YOURS HANDS OFF SS. Yes, I thing disability (within reason) is a good thing but it should not be tied to SS.

 

[TexasFreedom]

you can not collect SSI until the age of 62 before that age they will let you starve

GG, I still challenge you to tell me how many thousands are starving in the USA. Best data I see is maybe 100/year, and most of that is abuse/neglect. I'd love to see that number at zero, but 100 is a miniscule number. When you compare that to just about any other country in the world.

Have a safe trip.

 

[user 6493]

GG, I still challenge you to tell me how many thousands are starving in the USA. Best data I see is maybe 100/year, and most of that is abuse/neglect. I'd love to see that number at zero, but 100 is a miniscule number. When you compare that to just about any other country in the world.

Have a safe trip.

you take everything to literal ,,,,,,,,if you are older there is no financial aid ,you must fend for yourself,,,

 

[tmttactical]

If somebody want to run 100,000 in debt to do what they love, great, but don't ask the tax payer to pay for it. Your debt, you pay it.

 

[Kevin L]

If somebody want to run 100,000 in debt to do what they love, great, but don't ask the tax payer to pay for it. Your debt, you pay it.

I agree to a point, but I have to point something out.

Banks make loans with the expectation of getting the money back, plus interest. They profit from loaning money.

If a student gets a GSA, we're not giving them the money. They're paying it back--often with interest--and society benefits because we have another educated person (or, maybe, a person with a degree would be a better way of putting it. People can be self-educated, and have more smarts than a person with a degree....but I digress) in the work force.

A long term investment is not the same as a hand-out.

 

[DrHenley]

Well, for the sake of full disclosure, I have to admit I had a student loan.

$5,000

 

[user 7704]

My daughter was on full scholarship, no housing costs either. She still had to get about $10k. She worked , but had a transportation issue come up. She is paying it off.

 

[tmttactical]

I have no problem with granting student loans. My problem is when the students want the tax payer to pay them off. If you want to be a basket weaver and go 100,000 in debt, fine with me but don't then ask the government to forgive your debt or have the tax payer pay it off. Your debt, you pay it off. Really just that simple.

 

[user 6493]

the feds do what they want and to hell with the public,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[user 7704]

One of my egg customers said they are working 7 days per week and the young people refuse to work.

He said that he has a family, so he works as much as he can.

Many, not all, but many of today's youth, are spoiled rotten little brats.

 

[Dani]

One of my egg customers said they are working 7 days per week and the young people refuse to work.

He said that he has a family, so he works as much as he can.

Many, not all, but many of today's youth, are spoiled rotten little brats.

And how kids got to this point is something I can not understand. . . they have a role model of a parent, or both, who work hard to provide. Was it the lack of parenting? Did they get handed everything they wanted? Or is it their friends influences that made them this way? Or both??

 

[user 6493]

And how kids got to this point is something I can not understand. . . they have a role model of a parent, or both, who work hard to provide. Was it the lack of parenting? Did they get handed everything they wanted? Or is it their friends influences that made them this way? Or both??

I blame Computers and video games

 

[Dani]

I blame Computers and video games

I agree that has been a BIG influence in today's kids. . . that is lack of parenting in my opinion. But then if parents are working outside of the home and the kids have no supervision, than that is what kids are going to do because that is what their friends are doing. It is a vicious circle with no win.

 

[user 7704]

 

[user 7704]

This may help.

 

[TexasFreedom]

I agree to a point, but I have to point something out.
Banks make loans with the expectation of getting the money back, plus interest. They profit from loaning money.
If a student gets a GSA, we're not giving them the money. They're paying it back--often with interest--and society benefits because we have another educated person (or, maybe, a person with a degree would be a better way of putting it. People can be self-educated, and have more smarts than a person with a degree....but I digress) in the work force.

A long term investment is not the same as a hand-out.

Kevin, the last line can be taken either way. Either that you are OK with gov't eating the cost of college degrees (stealing from taxpayers)? Or do you mean an individual treating a college degree and a big student loan as an investment in their future? I'm assuming the latter. With that, there is a big flaw. I'd guess that a healthy third of college degrees never are expected to yield a decent salary. We used to joke about girls going to college to get their M.R.S. degree, and many did. I get it, it was a means to an end. But today far too many kids are going to college because mom & dad said so. They don't want to work; they're not really interested in their major; and they don't apply themselves. I would hardly call that an 'investment', and it's not hard to see which students are wasting time and money.

 

[Kevin L]

Kevin, the last line can be taken either way. Either that you are OK with gov't eating the cost of college degrees (stealing from taxpayers)? Or do you mean an individual treating a college degree and a big student loan as an investment in their future? I'm assuming the latter. With that, there is a big flaw. I'd guess that a healthy third of college degrees never are expected to yield a decent salary. We used to joke about girls going to college to get their M.R.S. degree, and many did. I get it, it was a means to an end. But today far too many kids are going to college because mom & dad said so. They don't want to work; they're not really interested in their major; and they don't apply themselves. I would hardly call that an 'investment', and it's not hard to see which students are wasting time and money.

I don't neccesarily approve of government handouts to finance education except under certian strange, oddball circumstances that don't apply here.

I'm intensely liberal by the standards of this website, but I'm most definitely not a socialist.

I want to compare a kid's education to buying a car. If mom and dad just buy their 16 year old son a car, often he doesn't value or take care of it....but if the kid gets a part-time job, mows lawns, and so forth, and buys the car with his own money....he treats it like a precious jewel.

Likewise with education. I believe in higher education, as it benefits society and the individual. If the student is paying for it rather than just having it handed to him, like the example with the car....he treats the opportunity with respect.

If we blindly pay for free college for everyone, I see most kids just coasting along while they party, drink, and smoke weed instead of applying themselves.

My only point is that it's important to pick something that you actually enjoy as a career choice, as all the money in the world isn't worth it if you're condemned to misery, monotony, and tedium for a quarter of your life.

If higher education works to fix this situation, then I'm for it.

Not handouts.

 

[Kevin L]

View attachment 9445

I disagree with the "moms then" side of the equation.

I believe in an element of "tough love" in almost any relationship, but things can be taken too far....and routinely were in the past.

Forcing kids to clean their plates at dinner contributes to the modern obesity epidemic (although I do believe in healthy foods for kids, as opposed to junk food--which also creates a lot of childhood obesity).

People look at the past, and talk about how we "didn't have ADD, high-funtioning autism, drug abuse in schools..." and so on.

Even if some of this seems to be true, we had thalidomide, DDT, racial segregation, and a work environment that supported a rampant sexism that kept qualified women from having fulfilling careers.

We learned better over time.

And--for the record--a bento box with kale, almond butter, a fruit smoothie, and so on is much healthier for a kid than a bologna sandwich on Wonder Bread.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Kevin,

You raise the buying a car for a kid example, and it's perfect.

Start with an 18 year old kid. Dad shouldn't buy him a new Chevy, the kid won't appreciate it nor care for it and most likely is going to get into a couple of wrecks as he learns to drive. Instead, most kids would do best with a running junker. He's going to wreck it anyway, make it a $2000 car he smashes instead of a $25k car.

The problem we're talking about with college doesn't compare to the junker nor the new Chevy. We're not talking a $2k or$25k expense. College degrees are $100-200k. We're talking about buying an 18 year old a new Tesla/Corvette/Ferrari. Does that sound insane? So does dropping $100k in debt on a kid that hardly knows how to wipe his nose and has no clue about what he wants to do with his/her career.

 

[Kevin L]

Kevin,

You raise the buying a car for a kid example, and it's perfect.

Start with an 18 year old kid. Dad shouldn't buy him a new Chevy, the kid won't appreciate it nor care for it and most likely is going to get into a couple of wrecks as he learns to drive. Instead, most kids would do best with a running junker. He's going to wreck it anyway, make it a $2000 car he smashes instead of a $25k car.

The problem we're talking about with college doesn't compare to the junker nor the new Chevy. We're not talking a $2k or$25k expense. College degrees are $100-200k. We're talking about buying an 18 year old a new Tesla/Corvette/Ferrari. Does that sound insane? So does dropping $100k in debt on a kid that hardly knows how to wipe his nose and has no clue about what he wants to do with his/her career.

I disagree somewhat.

There is always an element of chance and a risk of loss when investing money. One can buy a house, and have it destroyed in a hurricane.

Likewise, a kid can start college, get hit by a car and end up with brain damage during freshman year.

Still.....many (not all) kids who get a college education experience a better quality of life than people who don't go to school (and I'm lumping vocational education in with this as well).

I worked hard to become a paramedic, and I loved my job. I looked forward to going to work, and I felt like I was leaving the world a slightly better place when I got off shift.

I could have gotten a vocational job that would have made more money, but the feeling of enjoying what you do is--literally--priceless.

I incurred a lot of debt in the process, but it was worth it 10 times over.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Kevin,

I think you are making my point for me...

Yes you need a good bit of training to be a paramedic, but not a college degree. In fact I'd consider a paramedic to be an excellent example of a vocational career.

In my few seconds of research, it takes $5-15k in training to train to be a paramedic. You first start and become an EMT, which is much cheaper & quicker. Step by step. $1-3k to train to be an EMT. You can start on the job. Work & train to upgrade to a paramedic. If you get to the EMT stage and hate it, change paths. $3k is a tiny expense compared to a $200k student loan debt and realize you hate your field. Please correct any of my comments/numbers if I'm off. When you said 'a lot of debt', can you give us a ballpark number? Not counting college studies that didn't apply...

 

[Kevin L]

Kevin,

I think you are making my point for me...

Yes you need a good bit of training to be a paramedic, but not a college degree. In fact I'd consider a paramedic to be an excellent example of a vocational career.

In my few seconds of research, it takes $5-15k in training to train to be a paramedic. You first start and become an EMT, which is much cheaper & quicker. Step by step. $1-3k to train to be an EMT. You can start on the job. Work & train to upgrade to a paramedic. If you get to the EMT stage and hate it, change paths. $3k is a tiny expense compared to a $200k student loan debt and realize you hate your field. Please correct any of my comments/numbers if I'm off. When you said 'a lot of debt', can you give us a ballpark number? Not counting college studies that didn't apply...

I got my EMS degree (an associates) along with my paramedic and EMT curricula.

I incurred about $30,000 in education expenses, but I did things in dribs and drabs, and paid my way through while working at the same time.

I did take out some loans, but not as much as other people might have.

In addition, I'm a published writer, and I took money that I made from writing science fiction, murder mysteries, and romances (under a female pen name) and plugged it in to my tuition and books.

And no, I'm not Hemmingway when I write....but rather a hack who can churn out literary junk food that sells.

 

[Dani]

I got my EMS degree (an associates) along with my paramedic and EMT curricula.

I incurred about $30,000 in education expenses, but I did things in dribs and drabs, and paid my way through while working at the same time.

I did take out some loans, but not as much as other people might have.

In addition, I'm a published writer, and I took money that I made from writing science fiction, murder mysteries, and romances (under a female pen name) and plugged it in to my tuition and books.

And no, I'm not Hemmingway when I write....but rather a hack who can churn out literary junk food that sells.

Kevin. that is the difference between you and so many others who went into major debt to finance your schooling. You took out some loans and yet you have the initiative to actually pay them back and have put an effort forward to achieve that goal.

 

[Kevin L]

Kevin. that is the difference between you and so many others who went into major debt to finance your schooling. You took out some loans and yet you have the initiative to actually pay them back and have put an effort forward to achieve that goal.

Thank you, but my circumstances were not typical. I'm a creative person, and I tend to find unorthodox answers to things that stymie other people.

So, I did my education in dribs and drabs, but it took more time. Someone with a spouse and kids might need to move faster, so would maybe need more loans.

 

[JackDW]

Wifey was an EMT. She worked with a volunteer fire department and they paid the tuition at a local community college for the training. She then started running with the Local Volunteer rescue. She then advance to EMT-I and was working on paramedic when she was "forced" to resign to take care of her elderly mother. This way her tuition was paid for and the department had a dependable volunteer. She go to the point where she was certified to participate with the helicopter rescues. It you are interesting in this career, it may be worth checking out you local volunteer department and see what they offer in return of you volunteering.

As stated earlier, she had to resigned after her elderly mother broke her hip and needed constant care. While she could afford it, my MIL was a iron willed gal who refused to go to a nursing home. We never regretted taking her in and providing her with care the rest of her life. I think we are better for it as we leaned a lot of valuable lessons from her.