Post-SHTF DPF network

[QuietH3art]

"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase that originated in evolutionary theory as an alternative (but less accurate) way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. It is more commonly used today in other contexts, to refer to a supposed greater probability that "fit" as opposed to "unfit" individuals will survive some test.

Herbert Spencer first used the phrase – after reading Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species – in his Principles of Biology (1864), in which he drew parallels between his own economic theories and Darwin's biological ones, writing, "This survival of the fittest, which I have here sought to express in mechanical terms, is that which Mr. Darwin has called 'natural selection', or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life."

intuition 1. direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension. 2. a fact, truth, etc., perceived in this way. 3. a keen and quick insight. 4. the quality or ability of having such direct perception or quick insight.

Those of us who prep seem to have what I call a "seventh sense" that inspires us to prepare. We look at everything from a slightly different angle than the average human. That includes the way we consider other humans. I would go so far as to propose that we are more in tune with our inner "primal man"; more open to allowing our instincts to "think" for us.

We speak of ways to identify ourselves to each other but we already have an innate understanding of this survival mentality. We will know what we are looking at when we see it. We are also more aware of those that would cause chaos in a survival situation. I suggest that we all learn to trust our "gut" because it is already telling us what to do now.

 

[Maverick]

It's because of my gut feeling why i struggle with lone-wolfing it or networking within the local community, I don't put much trust in a untested group setting, I also understand at some point I will have to communicate post-shtf. Many of us that have served have been tested as group in a hostile environment, that kind of trust is very difficult if not impossible to replicate in a civilian group setting under the same pressures so, I question myself often, am I willing to put all my eggs in one basket towards a group that is untested as a group? I have been to group meeting and everyone can talk the talk, I have gone camping with a couple of groups and a couple of people always wanted to take charge or arguing (in a small way) granted, it was small stuff but that small stuff is destructive post-shtf, I guess it's the pre drama that's a turn off for me because small drama now is deadly post-shtf and that is a concern.

 

[QuietH3art]

It's because of my gut feeling why i struggle with lone-wolfing it or networking within the local community, I don't put much trust in a untested group setting, I also understand at some point I will have to communicate post-shtf. Many of us that have served have been tested as group in a hostile environment, that kind of trust is very difficult if not impossible to replicate in a civilian group setting under the same pressures so, I question myself often, am I willing to put all my eggs in one basket towards a group that is untested as a group? I have been to group meeting and everyone can talk the talk, I have gone camping with a couple of groups and a couple of people always wanted to take charge or arguing (in a small way) granted, it was small stuff but in that small stuff is destructive post-shtf I guess it's the pre drama that's a turn off for me because small drama now is deadly post-shtf and that is a concern.

When I think about my experience being a military spouse, all of the military people I have met, I lean towards wanting to be with mid-ranked enlisted in a SHTF situation. Higher than that and you get egos, lower you get inactivity without orders from above. My son-in-law served as a Marine Corps sergeant in Afghanistan. I see him able to make good decisions and act upon them on a daily basis in "normal" life. He is not bossy or egotistical and has ability and willingness to do anything that he would ask anyone else to do. My ex was a Master Sergeant - bossy, egotistical and assumed that when he told people to do things, they would just do them even if they didn't know what they were doing. He was not willing to demonstrate but would instead throw up his hands and do it himself, essentially telling the other person (usually me) that I was useless. Part of that was his personality before military service - I have met higher ranks who were more like my son-in-law, but it was always a 50/50 thing - you never knew what you'd get in an urgent situation.
The thought of being in a post-SHTF situation without someone who has military experience is actually rather frightening to me. That is a result of both my personality and my experience.
Last night I lay in bed thinking about the Missouri riots and what would happen if something like that happened here in this town. I live on the poor white edge of a poor black mobile home development - it's not a park, it's much bigger than that. Everyone here lives below the national poverty level. But, you can definitely tell the difference between those who live on government assistance and those that do not. And those of us who do not will likely be the first target for those who do. I have probably made myself a primary target because I have always been outspoken. When thugs gather on the street near my property, I open the door and yell at them to move along. I wear a façade of bravado most of the time. Perhaps that apparent lack of fear might save me, but I don't count on it.
As each day passes, I become more and more fearful of the future. To get out of here using back roads, I'd have to go through several more neighborhoods like this, but smaller. To go the "safer" route would take me on more heavily used roads. Some days I am paralyzed with indecision about what to do. Other days I push it from my mind and pretend everything will continue as is indefinitely. I know I can pack up everything I need into my truck and my son's car in less than 30 minutes - including the goats and chickens although they would be the last thing loaded. Then it would be a matter of luck and prayer if we make it out. Staying here is not an option. I wish moving away from here right now were an option. But, if wishes were horses, we'd all fly, right?

 

[Gazrok]

Lone-wolfing may be a workable strategy for the first 6 months post SHTF, but after that, situations will start to crop up that need more expertise...and that's where community comes into play. Other than our neighbors, I know our plan is to basically stay as hidden as possible for that kind of time, until things are more settled.

 

[jontte]

looking at my closest neighbourhood I don't see anyone I would wanna hook-up in a shtf situation..what bothers me greatly is what would happen to all kids here..who would feed them..I know I couldn't do it,don't have the recourses for that

 

[Maverick]

perhaps one of my flaws, when my kids was growing up they knew I didn't ask them, if they seen me doing it they known the trouble that will follow, my kids grew up while I was in the Military, the kids would tell their friends dad kicked us out of the house as soon as we were born, when one is serving it is difficult to separate the two families, I was a SSGT when I got out and I did have a chip on my shoulder (wife says I still do) though today she is quick to remind me she is the boss.

My concern is, power corrupts! in a post-shtf it's even going to be more prevalent, take a look at jim jones how over time on how it manifested to the end, how he was seen as a level headed leader but in the end he was a psychopath and that is what I mean when I say untested group, many preppers will join a group not really knowing the psych of the group leader, what appears all good now may go so very wrong post-shtf, should we release all we have prepped for including safety to a group/group leader that we know very little about that is untested, unproven? pre-shtf we have not depended on each other in a life and death struggle. How does one defend themselves against a group that has gone off the reservation sort of speak. In almost all groups, a leader have their own click of people with in the group as an example, I was invited to attend a preppers meeting in beaverton, oregon, they had the group leader and 4 of his associates, one outside, one inside (door greeter) you had the group leader sitting at the desk, two guy's standing to his left and right with their arms crossed looking serious, after realizing what I was seeing I got up to walk out, the gent at the door ask why I was leaving, I told him I didn't come here to attend what appeared to be a nazi meeting (it wasn't a nazi meeting) but it was too militant for me and to me that is a red flag, the group leader was never military law enforcement or anything of statute but was a talker and as far as I was concerned he also had his henchmen. If anyone joins a group make damn sure it is a closed net group not just once a month meetings but converse daily and do things together, you got to know who you are in bed with. (please don't take bed literally)

 

[Maverick]

Lone-wolfing may be a workable strategy for the first 6 months post SHTF, but after that, situations will start to crop up that need more expertise...and that's where community comes into play. Other than our neighbors, I know our plan is to basically stay as hidden as possible for that kind of time, until things are more settled.

I would hope things would smooth out to a manageable environment, but yes at some point we need to venture out, I don't want to spend the rest of my life making buck-skin clothing, at some point I am going to need medical stuff, thread & needle, wax a shirt etc...

 

[Gazrok]

Of course, your neighbors could also be a big security threat if they didn't prep as well as you did, etc. Unfortunately, just have to consider that an ally may become an enemy if they get low on resources. Still, my hope is that we'd ban together to face threats and challenges vs. go at each other. Biggest worry is one selling us out (like if some raiders kidnap a child, etc.). Will just have to deal with such things I suppose, if they come to pass.

 

[jontte]

sound advice..even with my meager military training compared to alot of you guys/gals,I know that phrase;power corrupts..and one of the scariest scenarios would be to join a group wiht a leader/wanna be leader who knows everything and is always right..that's why I don't trust all mid-lewel bosses at work either..I've already seen there what it is when there's "a boss and his/hers favorites"..

building a post-shtf group that would function after,well it's more difficult and complicated than I expected..have a feeling, a vague one that my brother has his own suspisions what I do when I'm not working..why my groceries always have so much canned food and other long lasting stuff,but knowing him he will only ask when he's been "thinking about it" long enough

 

[carhugger_prep]

sound advice..even with my meager military training compared to alot of you guys/gals,I know that phrase;power corrupts..and one of the scariest scenarios would be to join a group wiht a leader/wanna be leader who knows everything and is always right..that's why I don't trust all mid-lewel bosses at work either..I've already seen there what it is when there's "a boss and his/hers favorites"..

building a post-shtf group that would function after,well it's more difficult and complicated than I expected..have a feeling, a vague one that my brother has his own suspisions what I do when I'm not working..why my groceries always have so much canned food and other long lasting stuff,but knowing him he will only ask when he's been "thinking about it" long enough

Well another view on my idea is that you if bugged out and got to another DPF member you could work out a deal that if they help you with some gear or intel before you move on in exchange for helping the DPF member you met a little. Then you don't have to deal with the "power corrupts" scenario yet you still get help.

 

[Maverick]

I couldn't explain it in writing so here is a quick diagram, the only communication is going to be between meet A meet B meet C and so on, no one person knows the whereabouts of more then one camp, communication can be by radio, runner leaves notes from one meet to the other, if one camp is compromised the other camps wont fall, any traveler in need of supplies or assistance will only be taken to the meet spots not the camps, all bartering is at the meet spots, the only weak link is the person heading back to the camp so, someone needs to work on evasive tactics, the person that works these meet spots should have no family providing the camp spots have that many people, but even a one person camp would work just that they need to check for messages at the meet spot every three days or so, the camp spot should be no less then 3 miles away from the meet spot, if communicating with radios then either have a guy situated between the camp and the meet for radio relay or set up the camp and meet on the edge of the Tx/Rx signals.

 

[forager]

I couldn't explain it in writing so here is a quick diagram, the only communication is going to be between meet A meet B meet C and so on, no one person knows the whereabouts of more then one camp, communication can be by radio, runner leaves notes from one meet to the other, if one camp is compromised the other camps wont fall, any traveler in need of supplies or assistance will only be taken to the meet spots not the camps, all bartering is at the meet spots, the only weak link is the person heading back to the camp so, someone needs to work on evasive tactics, the person that works these meet spots should have no family providing the camp spots have that many people, but even a one person camp would work just that they need to check for messages at the meet spot every three days or so, the camp spot should be no less then 3 miles away from the meet spot, if communicating with radios then either have a guy situated between the camp and the meet for radio relay or set up the camp and meet on the edge of the Tx/Rx signals.

View attachment 3348

After looking at the implied capabilities, I'd venture This is most likely a logical tactic and undoubtedly a proven one.

 

[forager]

sound advice..even with my meager military training compared to alot of you guys/gals,I know that phrase;power corrupts..and one of the scariest scenarios would be to join a group wiht a leader/wanna be leader who knows everything and is always right..that's why I don't trust all mid-lewel bosses at work either..I've already seen there what it is when there's "a boss and his/hers favorites"..

building a post-shtf group that would function after,well it's more difficult and complicated than I expected..have a feeling, a vague one that my brother has his own suspisions what I do when I'm not working..why my groceries always have so much canned food and other long lasting stuff,but knowing him he will only ask when he's been "thinking about it" long enough

It should be by the people or nothing.

 

[forager]

This is just an idea but what if **** does hit the fan and one of us has to bug out? My idea is trading areas in our towns, cities, or somewhere near our BOL or home and code phrases incase someone does have to bug out. With this someone could still have a safety net of a fellow DPF member and possible safe haven even if it is temporary.

It is just a thought.

That thought, my friend- has merit. In spite of how individualistic we all can be, it is sometimes better 'Flocking' with birds of the same feather.

 

[Ginger]

I may be opening a Pandora's box here, but I have a challenge...not sure it will work on such a public forum but the more I look around the more I realize just how alone I am and should not be! I live surrounded by lake Allatoona...miles and miles surrounded...live on a peninsula literally...lake north, east and west...directly south is Atlanta. I need a "reliable" escape route. And, I need a place to go...want to plan for north travel and west travel only...please do not send me east or south, sorry. I am a lone female on foot with 3 dogs. I have no combat training, probably not even adequate self defense training and the only defense I carry is a basic kitchen knife. I have a back pack that I can live out of for 3 days and the dogs carry enough water for all of us for those 3 days. I realize I am going out of a limb here...but in the last month...house next door burglarized, house across street vandalized, have seen many strangers on foot and bicycle on street, ran off two kids ditching school other next door because abandoned home, woman was beat up in broad daylight on her bicycle...I keep my doors locked at all times now...not used to being this paranoid! And, this would be nice to "incorporate" into what plans are being practiced.

 

[jimLE]

I may be opening a Pandora's box here, but I have a challenge...not sure it will work on such a public forum but the more I look around the more I realize just how alone I am and should not be! I live surrounded by lake Allatoona...miles and miles surrounded...live on a peninsula literally...lake north, east and west...directly south is Atlanta. I need a "reliable" escape route. And, I need a place to go...want to plan for north travel and west travel only...please do not send me east or south, sorry. I am a lone female on foot with 3 dogs. I have no combat training, probably not even adequate self defense training and the only defense I carry is a basic kitchen knife. I have a back pack that I can live out of for 3 days and the dogs carry enough water for all of us for those 3 days. I realize I am going out of a limb here...but in the last month...house next door burglarized, house across street vandalized, have seen many strangers on foot and bicycle on street, ran off two kids ditching school other next door because abandoned home, woman was beat up in broad daylight on her bicycle...I keep my doors locked at all times now...not used to being this paranoid! And, this would be nice to "incorporate" into what plans are being practiced.

i suggest finding a family member or fellow prepper(s) that you can move in with.and either rent or sell your home..that is if you own it..only direction that comes to mind,when it comes suggesting a direction to go..is towards texas..there's other preppers here,who are between you and me..and if you can..meet up with who ever to see if you and who ever hits it off as preppers or not..

 

[Gazrok]

I may be opening a Pandora's box here, but I have a challenge...not sure it will work on such a public forum but the more I look around the more I realize just how alone I am and should not be! I live surrounded by lake Allatoona...miles and miles surrounded...live on a peninsula literally...lake north, east and west...directly south is Atlanta. I need a "reliable" escape route. And, I need a place to go...want to plan for north travel and west travel only...please do not send me east or south, sorry. I am a lone female on foot with 3 dogs. I have no combat training, probably not even adequate self defense training and the only defense I carry is a basic kitchen knife. I have a back pack that I can live out of for 3 days and the dogs carry enough water for all of us for those 3 days. I realize I am going out of a limb here...but in the last month...house next door burglarized, house across street vandalized, have seen many strangers on foot and bicycle on street, ran off two kids ditching school other next door because abandoned home, woman was beat up in broad daylight on her bicycle...I keep my doors locked at all times now...not used to being this paranoid! And, this would be nice to "incorporate" into what plans are being practiced.

Get a gun, and learn how to use it...would be my advice. Don't need to be Bruce Lee if you can hit a target with a bullet. Just showing a gun is typically going to work for you.

 

[carhugger_prep]

That thought, my friend- has merit. In spite of how individualistic we all can be, it is sometimes better 'Flocking' with birds of the same feather.

That is why I made the suggestion. It has been brought up earlier about being dumb to post the locations and code phrases on here it doesn't mean we couldn't send private messages to each other with possible locations near our home or BOL and what phrases or words to say to indicate we are DPF members who are alone or in trouble. We also could send private messages to each other with our phone numbers or email address so it could be discussed off the DPF website.

 

[jontte]

that's the quickest way...get a reliable gun..get a good blade..and get the h¤¤¤ out of there if it's possible..that's a scary situation my friend

 

[Brent S]

My biggest issue with traveling is what to chunk so I can handle the weight! All the cool stuff we gather is great, until its strapped on your back and youre walking with it.

 

[jontte]

and we feel like a pack-mule..

 

[jimLE]

and thats why i believe on going with whats actually needed only..that way i can get the needed pack if the one i have dont work out for me.

 

[forager]

I may be opening a Pandora's box here, but I have a challenge...not sure it will work on such a public forum but the more I look around the more I realize just how alone I am and should not be! I live surrounded by lake Allatoona...miles and miles surrounded...live on a peninsula literally...lake north, east and west...directly south is Atlanta. I need a "reliable" escape route. And, I need a place to go...want to plan for north travel and west travel only...please do not send me east or south, sorry. I am a lone female on foot with 3 dogs. I have no combat training, probably not even adequate self defense training and the only defense I carry is a basic kitchen knife. I have a back pack that I can live out of for 3 days and the dogs carry enough water for all of us for those 3 days. I realize I am going out of a limb here...but in the last month...house next door burglarized, house across street vandalized, have seen many strangers on foot and bicycle on street, ran off two kids ditching school other next door because abandoned home, woman was beat up in broad daylight on her bicycle...I keep my doors locked at all times now...not used to being this paranoid! And, this would be nice to "incorporate" into what plans are being practiced.

Probably the most effective thing You can do before all else is concentrate on Your objectives while doing the things You can toward that end. being on foot can also have advantages over transportation.Whatever happens around You, You can't afford to let stress govern Your response. Think- You got in here,You can get out. And consider the more affirmative conclusions- i.e. "it is ... I can... it will... I am... I will... I'll look around to see if there's anything more to suggest for You to deploy, but meanwhile it's important that You keep Your chin up and do what You can. (even the little stuff).

 

[forager]

I may be opening a Pandora's box here, but I have a challenge...not sure it will work on such a public forum but the more I look around the more I realize just how alone I am and should not be! I live surrounded by lake Allatoona...miles and miles surrounded...live on a peninsula literally...lake north, east and west...directly south is Atlanta. I need a "reliable" escape route. And, I need a place to go...want to plan for north travel and west travel only...please do not send me east or south, sorry. I am a lone female on foot with 3 dogs. I have no combat training, probably not even adequate self defense training and the only defense I carry is a basic kitchen knife. I have a back pack that I can live out of for 3 days and the dogs carry enough water for all of us for those 3 days. I realize I am going out of a limb here...but in the last month...house next door burglarized, house across street vandalized, have seen many strangers on foot and bicycle on street, ran off two kids ditching school other next door because abandoned home, woman was beat up in broad daylight on her bicycle...I keep my doors locked at all times now...not used to being this paranoid! And, this would be nice to "incorporate" into what plans are being practiced.

After studying Your approx. location via satellite map, not knowing which peninsula You refer to, but regardless, You have options of trails leading in all directions within 10- 20 miles. If You literally can,t get off the peninsula by land, I suggest perhaps rafting with a paddle. with a stable enough craft, You may find it possible to transport your dogs & your prep. From the water, Your area has many choices of locations. I noticed the n.e. fork at the north head of the lake has a lonely peninsula with only one trail called Bent trail. It leads n.w. to Blackstone rd. at that intersection, there are signs of a nearby water source. To continue north, follow bent trail N. only 10 mi. or less to Hardenbridge trail It looks like You should avoid Old Loving wood Ln. because it ends deeper South & ends in the forest. From this intersection It appears to be 20-25 mi. hike to the next water. This is a n intersection with many choices. O.K....?

 

[Ginger]

After studying Your approx. location via satellite map, not knowing which peninsula You refer to, but regardless, You have options of trails leading in all directions within 10- 20 miles. If You literally can,t get off the peninsula by land, I suggest perhaps rafting with a paddle. with a stable enough craft, You may find it possible to transport your dogs & your prep. From the water, Your area has many choices of locations. I noticed the n.e. fork at the north head of the lake has a lonely peninsula with only one trail called Bent trail. It leads n.w. to Blackstone rd. at that intersection, there are signs of a nearby water source. To continue north, follow bent trail N. only 10 mi. or less to Hardenbridge trail It looks like You should avoid Old Loving wood Ln. because it ends deeper South & ends in the forest. From this intersection It appears to be 20-25 mi. hike to the next water. This is a n intersection with many choices. O.K....?

This will help a little more...Red Top State Park is my back yard and I am close enough to walk to the water within a few minutes...that peninsula. And, thank you so much...there are 3 ways "off" this peninsula, a fourth being boat...staying east of I-75 just for population evasion makes more sense, but lots of open areas to be crossed that way. But, the more population I am around the more noise the dogs are going to make.

 

[Ginger]

i suggest finding a family member or fellow prepper(s) that you can move in with.and either rent or sell your home..that is if you own it..only direction that comes to mind,when it comes suggesting a direction to go..is towards texas..there's other preppers here,who are between you and me..and if you can..meet up with who ever to see if you and who ever hits it off as preppers or not..

Thanks! Hubby and I have discussed a lot of things, renting being number one on the list right now for sure, this place has been paid for a very long time! Which is the biggest reason makes it so hard to leave! But, now realizing just how vulnerable I am, I am leaning more and more to moving period. He has a big family to the north that several places would be welcome and I have family west...desert west but not sure hubby would cope with that! I personally would prefer the desert...convincing him of that is probably not going to happen!

 

[Ginger]

that's the quickest way...get a reliable gun..get a good blade..and get the h¤¤¤ out of there if it's possible..that's a scary situation my friend

Yes, this has sent me into some more serious soul searching...I am not one to panic but the violence is getting so close to home and if I hadn't already been a "victim" of a couple muggings and I already know that I will fight back to the death...my gut says to get out. I hate violence and will avoid it pretty much at all costs but when my family or personal safety is threatened, I will stand my ground. And, just yesterday, I learned there are six homeless men living less than 1/4 mile from my house in some abandoned buildings. I have been here an awful long time and I already feel our street being "cased"...I guess that is the term I am looking for. Just the traffic on my "dead end street" has tripled in the last six months...lot's of people just looking around?! Most of my work is done from home...and it is hard for anything to move up and down this street on foot/bicycle/four wheeler without my knowing it...and then there are days when I look up and someone is standing at the fence and there has been no alert...it doesn't happen often but I am aware that it will now!

 

[forager]

This will help a little more...Red Top State Park is my back yard and I am close enough to walk to the water within a few minutes...that peninsula. And, thank you so much...there are 3 ways "off" this peninsula, a fourth being boat...staying east of I-75 just for population evasion makes more sense, but lots of open areas to be crossed that way. But, the more population I am around the more noise the dogs are going to make.

Your dogs may be the single most valuable resource in Your arsenal. If they don't like where they are, maybe they know better.... just a thought.

 

[DrHenley]

Ginger, I was driving down I-75 today and thought I might take a look at the area. I did not get the impression that your area was as vulnerable as you think. Possibly part of your insecurity is because you aren't armed.

Of course I don't know exactly where your house it, but I imagine that if you would simply take more precautions, including securing a perimeter, and learning to use a firearm and having one accessible, you would be in a much better place to bug in than most people in the SHTF.

The peninsula did not seem to be a "target rich environment" for marauders, other than maybe the marina.

 

[Ginger]

Ginger, I was driving down I-75 today and thought I might take a look at the area. I did not get the impression that your area was as vulnerable as you think. Possibly part of your insecurity is because you aren't armed.

Of course I don't know exactly where your house it, but I imagine that if you would simply take more precautions, including securing a perimeter, and learning to use a firearm and having one accessible, you would be in a much better place to bug in than most people in the SHTF.

The peninsula did not seem to be a "target rich environment" for marauders, other than maybe the marina.

Thank you for taking time out of your day for me! I do not own a handgun...I do have a hunting rifle and know how to use it. The handgun...as hard as it is for me to admit I am still on the fence about. I do have some experience with guns...been caught in 3 shootouts, twice downtown B'ham and once in the desert...been shot with a BB gun...had a .22 rifle fired at me until empty, bad aim, a missile casing and the good Lord saved my life that day! I have been mugged twice at gun point and I fought each time and they ran away...I know how I react in that situation. I have been physically and mentally "beat down" and that has taught me how to stand up and fight back to bullies! I do not particularly want to get beat up but if you insist on physically harming me I do fight back and I promise you it will be as dirty of a fight as I can come up with! And, that is only if I do not get shot first! Still sitting on that fence about a handgun...I hesitate because I really think I would shoot my husband sometimes!

The perimeter issue has become very real here lately...you have easy access to my front door and now that the neighbors are getting robbed they are starting to get on board which is a great relief! I have put my foot down lately that I want the dogs between the street and my front door now! Being in a residential neighborhood, zoning and space limits what I can do. I will admit, too, we have some pretty decent neighbors! Thanks again!