Then you are right in refusing help to others. I respect that.
How about the rest of the members here?
How about the rest of the members here?
Prepper category three: Marauders.
- Thread starter Sainthood
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Unfortunately, it is also the nature of prepping that you do not give details of security measures on line or, even face to face, to strangers. Generalities yes. Ideas, yes.
As an instance, Chu-Chi tunnels...
Not saying we have something like this but, it is possible with the right soils and topography to use as a very effective defense/offense against attackers. Note the Punji stake pit above (There are many variations of the concept, all of which are illegal to use to defend property non-SHTF), along with false tunnels....
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You just gave some details on your defenses in earlier post.
Yes I did. Willingly.
But our website only gives red herrings as to location.
But our website only gives red herrings as to location.
Or just don’t comment on a thread, (which is rare for me).
I have my plans And points of defense. .
I have my plans And points of defense. .
Using the topography, such as marshlands, is a good primary defense…but, never get overconfident that no one would come from that direction. With proper training, they are tenable.
If you were looking from the eyes of an attacker, you would look to positions where an attack would be least expected, because it is difficult, it provides a false sense of security to the target and with limited manpower, is often less secure. A small number of men are the pavers of a larger attack. They are not going to come driving up a driveway.
Remember, a pasture with actively grazing cattle will become overgrown once the cattle are removed. With a Ghillie suit, you have an avenue of stealth approach in the tall grass or even with the cattle, around the fence line perimeters, which are usually left to scrub.
Another mistake a lot of us tend to make is a reliance on technology. You got yourself a good thermal, IR scope and some top end night vision goggles…that’s great and will be helpful in most circumstances against a regular group of raiders, except when someone has taken the time and forethought to protect against it.
Marauders, trained for it, know how to evade technology.
Heat signature detection can be evaded…fairly easily in many circumstances. I know a couple of people who are very good at it and have done it with the best technology looking for them. In our US warm spring/summer climate, it is easier to mask.
How to Avoid Thermal Imaging Devices.
Thermal Imaging Devices, Pro's and Con's - PREPAREDNESS ADVICE
There are also materials, previously only available to the military that almost completely mask IR technology.
Hiding from infrared cameras is now possible
There is also a camouflage netting that beats night vision, IR and thermal…tested against the best technologies the US Army has.
Army's crazy new camouflage can defeat night vision, thermal
I am often alone out at the BOL working. We have a lot of natural predators there including big cats, coyotes, feral hogs and supposedly bears, though I have never seen the evidence of one.
One of the best inexpensive sensor defenses I use for my personal protection out there is solar motion sensor lights. The issue is that they tend to go off incessantly when there is a slight breeze and you tend to start ignoring them (The BOL doesn't get much wind). But, when one goes off, it does draw your attention which can be used against you. It also would announce the presence of an encampment.
All security has its pros and cons. You use it for the pros, a professional, knows how to use every one (and human nature) of them against you.
The gist of all of this is, well-equipped and trained marauders, can get close enough to you to preserve the element of surprise.
Having more security layers and plans than an onion, both low and high tech, at least one layer includes a viable plan(s) of retreat and living to fight another day.
If you were looking from the eyes of an attacker, you would look to positions where an attack would be least expected, because it is difficult, it provides a false sense of security to the target and with limited manpower, is often less secure. A small number of men are the pavers of a larger attack. They are not going to come driving up a driveway.
Remember, a pasture with actively grazing cattle will become overgrown once the cattle are removed. With a Ghillie suit, you have an avenue of stealth approach in the tall grass or even with the cattle, around the fence line perimeters, which are usually left to scrub.
Another mistake a lot of us tend to make is a reliance on technology. You got yourself a good thermal, IR scope and some top end night vision goggles…that’s great and will be helpful in most circumstances against a regular group of raiders, except when someone has taken the time and forethought to protect against it.
Marauders, trained for it, know how to evade technology.
Heat signature detection can be evaded…fairly easily in many circumstances. I know a couple of people who are very good at it and have done it with the best technology looking for them. In our US warm spring/summer climate, it is easier to mask.
How to Avoid Thermal Imaging Devices.
Thermal Imaging Devices, Pro's and Con's - PREPAREDNESS ADVICE
There are also materials, previously only available to the military that almost completely mask IR technology.
Hiding from infrared cameras is now possible
There is also a camouflage netting that beats night vision, IR and thermal…tested against the best technologies the US Army has.
Army's crazy new camouflage can defeat night vision, thermal
I am often alone out at the BOL working. We have a lot of natural predators there including big cats, coyotes, feral hogs and supposedly bears, though I have never seen the evidence of one.
One of the best inexpensive sensor defenses I use for my personal protection out there is solar motion sensor lights. The issue is that they tend to go off incessantly when there is a slight breeze and you tend to start ignoring them (The BOL doesn't get much wind). But, when one goes off, it does draw your attention which can be used against you. It also would announce the presence of an encampment.
All security has its pros and cons. You use it for the pros, a professional, knows how to use every one (and human nature) of them against you.
The gist of all of this is, well-equipped and trained marauders, can get close enough to you to preserve the element of surprise.
Having more security layers and plans than an onion, both low and high tech, at least one layer includes a viable plan(s) of retreat and living to fight another day.
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There is a way to do it without revealing your specifics is all that I think PP was saying.
Thanks for the correction Raining.
I am all about teaching others to mitigate suffering.
I appreciate keeping silent what you did personally.
But at the same time, a Medic must expose himself in order to render aid.
That is why I suggested a middle ground by asking for a Newby's details and then offering plan options.
They reveal, we teach.
But we can't teach until someone starts a thread asking for a Newby's details.
Otherwise we are back to writing a long drug out book of ideas for a Newby who needs help, not another book.
I am all about teaching others to mitigate suffering.
I appreciate keeping silent what you did personally.
But at the same time, a Medic must expose himself in order to render aid.
That is why I suggested a middle ground by asking for a Newby's details and then offering plan options.
They reveal, we teach.
But we can't teach until someone starts a thread asking for a Newby's details.
Otherwise we are back to writing a long drug out book of ideas for a Newby who needs help, not another book.
I always thought that was a stupid law. If someone had it disguised as just a pit with junk in it, I'm not sure how that could be prosecuted as anything but negligence which should be covered under good homeowners insurance in many states.
It is considered a weapon. Should someone (a hap hazard trespasser) fall in, it could be a death sentence. I used to work in insurance, a camouflaged pit, would not be covered.
How could they tell if it was just a pit with a bunch of garbage and a few spikes? Am I just being naïve?
Around here, there are a lot of rednecks that have garbage pits with all sorts of metal and glass. It wouldn't be as dangerous as a true punji pit, but it seems like it would be hard to prove that you intended it for defense rather than just covered a ratty garbage pit with something that gave way.
In most states it is considered an undue hazard. You could take out a rider on it for extra cost.
We live in a litigious society, often awards and guilt or innocence is determined by a jury and maybe more than a few, don't like rednecks or trailer trash and have a broad definition of such....
Some states like Texas provide protection for some activities such as someone wanders onto your property and gets into the pasture with a bull, gets mauled...dumb right? But, in many states you could lose in court because you did not warn of the inherent risks involved with farm animals at the point the person entered the fence....
Even with our laws here, I have to post signs in certain areas, to get the legal protection. Like this.
If I don't post it in the right places, I could be sued and my insurance company liable. They exist to stay in business and make money, so if something is an increased risk, they are not going to cover it in a basic policy.
People think Texas is the wild west, and you can shoot someone just for trespassing. Nope: that is called murder. I have to notify them of their error, ask them to leave. If they refuse peacefully, I have to call the police or game warden. Now, if they actively threaten me, my property (such as setting a fire) or livestock, then, I have the right to draw my firearm...warning shots here (Felony), and in many states, are also illegal.
There is a difference made between Trespass and CRIMINAL trespass.
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Important input, drones that the enemy controls that can drop something above you, the conflict in Eastern Europe shows that both sides can convert normal drones into killer drones with simple means, the bit of bestal success. 
The problem with these things is that you are also spied on at night and you don't notice it, and you are bombed very quickly before you can escape.
Today the clever enemy doesn't just come on foot, he scouts you with the first drone and kills you with the second drone if you're unlucky.
At the moment our weakest point is the sky, no matter whether the state, army or enemy is controlling the drone, things see through too much and the night is no longer a protection either.
The problem with these things is that you are also spied on at night and you don't notice it, and you are bombed very quickly before you can escape.
Today the clever enemy doesn't just come on foot, he scouts you with the first drone and kills you with the second drone if you're unlucky.
At the moment our weakest point is the sky, no matter whether the state, army or enemy is controlling the drone, things see through too much and the night is no longer a protection either.
Important input, drones that the enemy controls that can drop something above you, the conflict in Eastern Europe shows that both sides can convert normal drones into killer drones with simple means, the bit of bestal success.
The problem with these things is that you are also spied on at night and you don't notice it, and you are bombed very quickly before you can escape.
Today the clever enemy doesn't just come on foot, he scouts you with the first drone and kills you with the second drone if you're unlucky.
At the moment our weakest point is the sky, no matter whether the state, army or enemy is controlling the drone, things see through too much and the night is no longer a protection either.
One of my eventual plans is to build an earth sheltered house. It will help. Now whether I get to it before SHTF, is another matter entirely.
Wow. I had no idea Texas had those laws. Interesting. Thanks for the response.
We just had a case a few years back of a bunch of teens that broke into a barn and were injured on some machinery somehow. The one kid got pretty badly hurt. They ended up with probation, but that's a little different because they had already broken in.
They don't know any of us from Adam and, as is the topic of this thread, not all "preppers" have good intentions.
Given the timeline suggested here of one month, I think that is going to be difficult to implement a lot of things, unless they are independently wealthy (in which case they can hire a pro), have a large group or are looking for just better than nothing. They are always free to ask for questions or suggestions should they desire help.
Most of us here are very much willing to help where we can.
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Marauders...
We have actually ~84.000.000 people overal. The area is 357.588 Km². This means statistically we have 234 people per Km² in our self destructing country.
Of course the density varys from urban to rural (west decreasing to east) but we have no areas, where there is not a village. All two to three km you will find some kind of settlement.
The least of our people are preppers (~0,02%), so there will almost no marauding preppers. But of course we have gangs, criminal live, and (european) millions of arabic or african mostly male (yes - they know their gender) refugees. Other groups that I think could be marauders like army and police (especially specops, riotcontrol and the former borderpatrol) are of course existing.
I think, that marauders will establish themselves very fast. As long as there is fuel. Those who move with cars a week after Shtf will have no fun or absolut superior firepower.
I will know, when marauders or refugees march and gain loot. You´ll see columns of smoke and fire (two villages further north there was a barn on fire last year that brightened the full dark narrow vally I live in), hear gunfire and - if the winds right - the screaming. Local refugees will be with us in very short time. Sure we´ll help incoming locals aka neighbours - as villagefire departement and families as hard as we can. As soon we can no (which I think is after a few days) more there will be a lot of tears.
We don´t really have big farms where we can dig in like @JimCosta reported. We have to work with what we have. And there´s a lot of law we still have to obey. But - our area is somekind of "country". We´ll find improvised ways to lock unwanted ones out. The necessary gear and constructionmaterial is - as far as I know - available.
@ban1985 Drones is a huge topic. I still have no idea, what I could do to avoid or figth of those high flying, thermal looking and death dropping suckers.
- - -
The other side is: I also have gear to be able to collect things or food outside my perimeters. There are some huge and interesting Marts and logisticcenters which provide local markets with food. But - going there for loot will be a dance with the devil, that´s for sure. But maybe - once there will be a time where we become the marauders!?
We have actually ~84.000.000 people overal. The area is 357.588 Km². This means statistically we have 234 people per Km² in our self destructing country.
Of course the density varys from urban to rural (west decreasing to east) but we have no areas, where there is not a village. All two to three km you will find some kind of settlement.
The least of our people are preppers (~0,02%), so there will almost no marauding preppers. But of course we have gangs, criminal live, and (european) millions of arabic or african mostly male (yes - they know their gender) refugees. Other groups that I think could be marauders like army and police (especially specops, riotcontrol and the former borderpatrol) are of course existing.
I think, that marauders will establish themselves very fast. As long as there is fuel. Those who move with cars a week after Shtf will have no fun or absolut superior firepower.
I will know, when marauders or refugees march and gain loot. You´ll see columns of smoke and fire (two villages further north there was a barn on fire last year that brightened the full dark narrow vally I live in), hear gunfire and - if the winds right - the screaming. Local refugees will be with us in very short time. Sure we´ll help incoming locals aka neighbours - as villagefire departement and families as hard as we can. As soon we can no (which I think is after a few days) more there will be a lot of tears.
We don´t really have big farms where we can dig in like @JimCosta reported. We have to work with what we have. And there´s a lot of law we still have to obey. But - our area is somekind of "country". We´ll find improvised ways to lock unwanted ones out. The necessary gear and constructionmaterial is - as far as I know - available.
@ban1985 Drones is a huge topic. I still have no idea, what I could do to avoid or figth of those high flying, thermal looking and death dropping suckers.
- - -
The other side is: I also have gear to be able to collect things or food outside my perimeters. There are some huge and interesting Marts and logisticcenters which provide local markets with food. But - going there for loot will be a dance with the devil, that´s for sure. But maybe - once there will be a time where we become the marauders!?
I was gonna say if one month is the time frame for prepping to defend life and property..a condensed (emergency) version may be in order..or at least a timeline of what one expects to transpire exactly, within the next month. Or at least a rough estimate of what you think is coming down in next 30 days to get to the point of defending life and property to that extent. Most of the plans I've read posted here are pretty elaborate, seemingly taken years to prepare.
If we are at the point of defending life and our property, I'm not worrying about insurance regulations or other, for what's not allowed on my property.. I'm worrying about whatever the hell it takes to survive...
If it's ecomic/financial collapse, and we can't get money to buy food n other, and if grid going down and no electric, food supply shut down, that's one ore more scenarios. If it's a nuclear strike, that's another scenario..and so on...
Assuming, at least hypothetically this 30 day timeline prediction is accurate (and I am not arguing it is or isn't):
What should one expect in next 30 days?
What can a newbie do now(today) to get prepared in time (within 30 days)?
I'll take "I'm screwed" for $800 Alex..
Not kidding! If it's true, I guess i'll be saying its been nice knowing yall!
If we are at the point of defending life and our property, I'm not worrying about insurance regulations or other, for what's not allowed on my property.. I'm worrying about whatever the hell it takes to survive...
If it's ecomic/financial collapse, and we can't get money to buy food n other, and if grid going down and no electric, food supply shut down, that's one ore more scenarios. If it's a nuclear strike, that's another scenario..and so on...
Assuming, at least hypothetically this 30 day timeline prediction is accurate (and I am not arguing it is or isn't):
What should one expect in next 30 days?
What can a newbie do now(today) to get prepared in time (within 30 days)?
I'll take "I'm screwed" for $800 Alex..
Not kidding! If it's true, I guess i'll be saying its been nice knowing yall!
Very good post. There is a good book out in circulation, but it’s hard to find, honest in its presentation and typically expensive, employing and dealing heavily with your final point. The better organized and prepared you and your neighbors are as a group is our best defense against individuals and groups of individuals which mean to do those of us harm that have taken the time and made the efforts to handle what is coming. The book is titled “A Failure of Civility”, by Mike Garand and Jack Lawson, two SOG specialists. It’s going to be harder times than many can imagine and trust is something that is really can’t be earned at the last minute.
Somebody owes me a penny!
PDF of A Failure of Civility
Excellent chapter in the back on surveying your area. It is the best place to start.
Advice: Mail possible assets a letter to see if they wish to combine in some way.
Then make contact through emails, with you making a new address using my Mother-In-Laws name.
When ready to meet do it in a hamburger stand.
PDF of A Failure of Civility
Excellent chapter in the back on surveying your area. It is the best place to start.
Advice: Mail possible assets a letter to see if they wish to combine in some way.
Then make contact through emails, with you making a new address using my Mother-In-Laws name.
When ready to meet do it in a hamburger stand.
Thank you sir! So much for typically expensive. I should have specified the soft cover version I have in my library was expensive.
It's not the whole book (Breaks/missing content) but, enough to give you the flavor of it.
It is out of print. Been that way for about 6 - 10 years I think.
Yes and there weren’t too many copies actually printed in the only printing that occurred. It took me a couple of years to actually find a copy. They were available online on Ebay at one time, but they were a bit expensive for me. It was recommended by former Navy Seal Officer, Matt Bracken. That’s what originally motivated me to find a copy.
Amazon has some used for over $200. Yes, I bought one for my reference library. I'm a bit of a bibliophile, and do some collecting. Unlike a first edition of Huck Finn, after looking at the table of contents, this one is going to have some practical use. You never know if the people who store knowledge in their heads and have direct experiences, are going to be around long enough to teach others what they know. Physically, we are finite beings.
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Marauders are criminals not Preppers . In these times they take their chances in a court room . Post teotwawki they will not fare so well . In many "developing" countries today they would be chained to a stack of worn out tires and set on fire .
Waste of still good tires...Brazilian necklace.
One tire around their neck with gasoline in it is how they do it down there.
Bug In, Bug Out you have a choice in. Category Three may be a choice that has to be made eventually.
And the parasites are always running in packs of cowards, have more firepower than most and are stupid enough to destroy something they cannot "win" with a fair or unfair fight. They will just burn your house down in order to tell themselves that "WE won the fight"...beware of cowards.
THE argument for having dougouts or caches filled with gear and food, bugoutgear/packs and "heavy artillery"
