Re: Ammo

[ahipes]

OK I have a question for y'all. What type of ammo is best to stock up on for a handgun fmj or hollow points? I know that hollow points are better due to expansion but when I go buy ammo I hate to pass up the fmj because I can buy 50 for the same price as 20 hollow points.

 

[jontte]

I would go for the fmj,once a good stock of those why not get some hollows

 

[ahipes]

Good idea thanks

 

[jontte]

I'm stocking shotgun ammo,'cause I've a license for that gun,any other ammo is illegal to me,the Finland-thing, hopefully next week have a chance to start my .22 collection

 

[mr_jonny]

I do recomend some low recoil buck shot. (Wife can use the 12 gauge than). As for the hp or fmj.... well I would go for the fmj, as you said 50 for the price of 20. Fmj will go through metal/object , compared to the hollow points won't. In the case of shtf scenario I would rather have more rounds than less.

 

[jontte]

the more the merryer,found a store that sells them quite cheep when searching the webb

 

[mr_jonny]

Jontte , do you have antique laws in finland? Canada we do anything pre 1898(approx) you don't need a licence for. I have bought 2 32 rimfire handguns(Derringer type) and bought a reloading kit from hc ( cant remember the name) . They are based out of france and have all sorts of rimfire reloading kits. For a primer/charge I use a ramset 22 (brown box). Just insert and good to go. Just when you order empty cases from them get the long ones.

 

[jontte]

we had acouple of shootings here in finland and our legislative gov went into hyper-hysteria abt guns,even for an antique gun you need a license,can't order anything without a permit,empty cases,powder,everything regulated, but if yr 18 and have the money you can buy the meanest and strongest crossbow,no questions asked.
and then we have as our foreing.sec/min a man that hate us hunters and those involved in any amry reserve activity,we are bad bad people

 

[DrHenley]

OK I have a question for y'all. What type of ammo is best to stock up on for a handgun fmj or hollow points?

Get both, but make sure they are the same velocity and bullet weight. Practice with the FMJ, and use the HP for defense (where legal of course)

Make sure you run some of the HP through your gun to test for function. My guns are indifferent to different bullet types, but some guns are finicky.

I just noticed that this thread seems to be muliplying..:wtf:

 

[psalm 7]

Yea this thread is under 3 differant topics .

 

[Trapper]

I do recomend some low recoil buck shot. (Wife can use the 12 gauge than). As for the hp or fmj.... well I would go for the fmj, as you said 50 for the price of 20. Fmj will go through metal/object , compared to the hollow points won't. In the case of shtf scenario I would rather have more rounds than less.

I wont say HP handgun rounds wont go through metal or an object. Have you ever shot into a car with Speer Golddots or Federal HST in 9,40 or 45? They all go through sheet rock, a metal car door or a windshield rather well. The main difference is a HP will make a larger wound channel and a FMJ will go deeper. The biggest reason to carry HP's is to create a bigger wound channel and the round expends all of its energy into its target without (or little) over penetration. This can be a big concern if you get my drift......

As far as what to stock away....any QUALITY ammo you can afford that your weapon shoots well. Before buy a case of anything, make sure your weapon will feed it reliably. I see a lot of guys putting away the cheap Wolf or other low quality ammo. If at all possible save your money and put away better quality ammo.

Get both, but make sure they are the same velocity and bullet weight. Practice with the FMJ, and use the HP for defense (where legal of course)
Make sure you run some of the HP through your gun to test for function. My guns are indifferent to different bullet types, but some guns are finicky.

That is good advice Dr Henley posted......

 

[anonymousAmerican]

i don't believe you should stockpile more than you can carry if you plan on bugging out but if you plan to sit tight then i guess more is better

 

[Trapper]

i don't believe you should stockpile more than you can carry if you plan on bugging out but if you plan to sit tight then i guess more is better

Bugging out is just another term for refugee. A gun and ammo isn't needed as it will be confiscated when you enter govt run aid stations or housing at a stadium.

 

[alabaster]

Buy as many well performing hollow points as possible. If you are like a lot of us, money isn't falling from trees. I would prefer to have 5k rds of FMJ than 2k rds of HP. Keep in mind that handguns as a rule are poor performers. Ammo selection is key to their ability. They don't perform like FMJ 5.56 rounds(Obviously), so if you can afford HP, it's not a bad idea. At least buy some. We keep a magazine loaded with HPs in our guns, but often carry a magazine of FMJ and another magazine of HP. That sounds like overkill to a lot of people, but handguns really aren't good for stopping lethal attacks. This way, we have some good HP rounds(Which suit most civilian situations) and then we have 18rds of FMJ in case we feel the need for a little more penetration.

 

[anonymousAmerican]

Bugging out is just another term for refugee. A gun and ammo isn't needed as it will be confiscated when you enter govt run aid stations or housing at a stadium.

SIR I do believe the debacle you got your self into when stating this is that you have not the slightest idea as to who you are talking to I'm not the average citizen I would not allow the government to shelter me I would not seek their aid who needs this http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Congress&defid=6057430

 

[Silent Bob]

I wont say HP handgun rounds wont go through metal or an object. Have you ever shot into a car with Speer Golddots or Federal HST in 9,40 or 45? They all go through sheet rock, a metal car door or a windshield rather well. The main difference is a HP will make a larger wound channel and a FMJ will go deeper. The biggest reason to carry HP's is to create a bigger wound channel and the round expends all of its energy into its target without (or little) over penetration. This can be a big concern if you get my drift......

As far as what to stock away....any QUALITY ammo you can afford that your weapon shoots well. Before buy a case of anything, make sure your weapon will feed it reliably. I see a lot of guys putting away the cheap Wolf or other low quality ammo. If at all possible save your money and put away better quality ammo.



That is good advice Dr Henley posted......

Hey Trapper,

Great post and like Alabaster, I am a firm believer of buying both HP and FMJ whenever and wherever I can get it for a cheaper price than my sources. Lol, I just posted a Cabella's Outpost thread in the Topic forum...but I got a great buy on some Lake City Ammo in a canister. Your right on both the Speer and Federal HST...shot both on ranges and know they can stop just about anything, the wife's handgun has Federal HST 9mm.

You are spot on when talking about being processed for any shelter. Depending on crowd control through processing and local law enforcement cooperation/State guard support, weapons simply will be confiscated. While their were some isolated cases during Katrina in the Baton Rouge shelters...for the most part local law enforcement did an excellent job in creating a great way to intercept them. I'd love to share some stories, but I don't want to place a few friends jobs in jeopardy (they still work in Louisiana law enforcement), but they were quite comical under a very stressful environment. Learned a ton of lessons from that one.

As for Wolf brand ammo...I have about 7500 rounds of Wolf 5.56, I use it more for just sighting, but I've had very little problems with them, granted they are cheaply made and once fired, not worth the brass, but as a reserve...I can't beat the price/amount. When we had the incident in Colorado, that morning, I scooped up as much as I could from online and bought the last boxes of 5.56 at Academy in town. Still as a rule I stock up on the Lake City-Federal, SW and Remington when its on sale, which makes up about 80% of my ammo inventory.

DrHenley is right..it is multiplying. Again great post!

Buy as many well performing hollow points as possible. If you are like a lot of us, money isn't falling from trees. I would prefer to have 5k rds of FMJ than 2k rds of HP. Keep in mind that handguns as a rule are poor performers. Ammo selection is key to their ability. They don't perform like FMJ 5.56 rounds(Obviously), so if you can afford HP, it's not a bad idea. At least buy some. We keep a magazine loaded with HPs in our guns, but often carry a magazine of FMJ and another magazine of HP. That sounds like overkill to a lot of people, but handguns really aren't good for stopping lethal attacks. This way, we have some good HP rounds(Which suit most civilian situations) and then we have 18rds of FMJ in case we feel the need for a little more penetration.

Yup. Yup, I'd rather sink my money into FMJ and HP, rather than invest in precious metals...ammo is stable, its not going to show a price drop, unlike the volatility of P.M...granted think you should have a little bit, but I'd rather haul a 1000 rounds that I will use, last time I checked I couldn't put gold in my magazine and fire it. Also, I think ammo will after the event, be a bartering item. I have rounds of other calibers that I simply am collecting because I know I can get rid of it in a bartering situation.

i don't believe you should stockpile more than you can carry if you plan on bugging out but if you plan to sit tight then i guess more is better

Your funny.

 

[alabaster]

Your funny.

SB, I thought the same thing when I read that. I thought it was a joke, actually. I understand you can't carry a lot in your pack, per se.... But this is why I like the idea of survivalist prepping! The less kit you have to carry, the more ammo you can load out with! I have heard this opinion before on a serious note, so I figure anonymousAmerican is serious, too. I, like you, feel that ammo is for far more than hunting. If you can't save your own hide from a violent attack, the rest is academic. The ammo has proven to be a VERY valuable commodity, and the Nation as a whole has come no where near true crisis yet.

I don't think people realize the idea of bartering ammo because we often think we will have access to the global market. In that case, PMs are indeed valuable(Assuming that the rest of the world isn't in trouble, too). I may be thinking too far ahead, but I imagine trying to trade someone gold for food and them looking at me like I'm crazy saying, "I can't feed my family gold, mister. Sorry." Yet, if you have something that can harvest food AND defend against evil people or 4 legged critters... .Well, what's that worth?

 

[anonymousAmerican]

imho when it hits the fan the few good people there will be, will be so hard to differentiate from the bad guys so to me the risk out weighs the reward, is attempting to barder with a complete stranger who could be starving dangerous and willing to consume human flesh just to survive. (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) this is the only mind set that i can have because i love my family im not willing to risk my infants life and my wifes good health just because times are hard if your starving your not dead

 

[Silent Bob]

SB, I thought the same thing when I read that. I thought it was a joke, actually. I understand you can't carry a lot in your pack, per se.... But this is why I like the idea of survivalist prepping! The less kit you have to carry, the more ammo you can load out with! I have heard this opinion before on a serious note, so I figure anonymousAmerican is serious, too. I, like you, feel that ammo is for far more than hunting. If you can't save your own hide from a violent attack, the rest is academic. The ammo has proven to be a VERY valuable commodity, and the Nation as a whole has come no where near true crisis yet.

I don't think people realize the idea of bartering ammo because we often think we will have access to the global market. In that case, PMs are indeed valuable(Assuming that the rest of the world isn't in trouble, too). I may be thinking too far ahead, but I imagine trying to trade someone gold for food and them looking at me like I'm crazy saying, "I can't feed my family gold, mister. Sorry." Yet, if you have something that can harvest food AND defend against evil people or 4 legged critters... .Well, what's that worth?

Were on the same boat my friend...I spell it as FMJ or HP, depending on what business end it is coming from. Most likely 308 FMJ or if we are at the BOL...then might be the 50 cal, I'd rather have the tactical advantage of distance with my son's good eyes at the helm.

My wife told me she thought I was a bit insane a few years ago, when I bought a bunch of bacon and dehydrated meat in cans. When we bought it in the large quantities that we did, she thought, I was just going prepper happy. Last year, I opened up a can of bacon...warmed it up in the microwave for 1 minute then crisped it in the oven, cooked up some biscuits from my dehydrated stash, made some hash browns from the can...and the eggs...well we had those hens from Walmart lay them. So the family loved the bacon and biscuits..my wife commented how fluffy they were and said, that I must have done something to them. She said Pillsbury stuff must be adding butter...well all I did was add the honey butter on them...so after they finished I broke the news that the bacon was from a can...and for the price of the stuff in the market...they consumed about 2 packages worth. Now my wife doesn't complain so much about the food purchases.

Yeah, I get the PM stuff is good to have for bartering and I have a little bit tucked away in our safety deposit box and also a few ingots of gold and silver in the home, but for me, I'd rather invest most of my money into what will keep my family alive during the first year or two of an event...provided we survive the first 90 days to 180 days. I think this will be a very dangerous period until those who are fit/strong/and well prepared will see the next year.

As for carrying stuff, well I've always been a mule...when it comes to packs...so I load out pretty heavy...everything in the BOB is incremented to be used...so as we go along..the pack becomes lighter. Unlike some who think a combat patrols worth of ammo is sufficient, having been on the short end a few times, I'll live and struggle with the added 10 more pounds of ammo and worse case, I'll hit the cache site, if I don't have any serious engagements.

Of course, you should know like some of the people I call friends...that your going to always be welcomed at my home.

 

[Trapper]

SIR I do believe the debacle you got your self into when stating this is that you have not the slightest idea as to who you are talking to I'm not the average citizen I would not allow the government to shelter me I would not seek their aid who needs this http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Congress&defid=6057430

Many people come here with grand ideas they THINK they will live off the land in a patch of woods outside of the city they live in. Most of these think roughing it is when they have to look for a golf ball they hit in the trees.
Others come here thinking they will prey on others when SHTF occurs. All I did was point out the obvious. I was not being judgemental of you personally so settle down. We are here to help each other, share ideas and learn. If you can understand that then great. Since your not an average citizen I invite you to share your wisdom and insight.

 

[anonymousAmerican]

Many people come here with grand ideas they THINK they will live off the land in a patch of woods outside of the city they live in. Most of these think roughing it is when they have to look for a golf ball they hit in the trees.
Others come here thinking they will prey on others when SHTF occurs. All I did was point out the obvious. I was not being judgemental of you personally so settle down. We are here to help each other, share ideas and learn. If you can understand that then great. Since your not an average citizen I invite you to share your wisdom and insight.

I apologize for taking offense i have a very volatile personality and tend to take offense when non is intended im 22 miles from nearest town with Walmart and about 8-15 miles from nearest groccery store/ gas station population of my town is roughly 4-5k not sure no more than 6k mostly elderly farmers i reside on 10 acres of land that boarders the largest undeveloped area in my county roughly 5k acres my idea of roughing it is a 10/22 ruger a single tarp bullets a few bottles of water a bed role and a magnesium striker and flint been doing this since i was about 13 and im now 20 average length of my excursions is 3 to 5 days but i could last longer if need be im pretty sure i have no need for society

 

[anonymousAmerican]

i don't believe you should stockpile more than you can carry if you plan on bugging out but if you plan to sit tight then i guess more is better

in this statement i was trying to point out that 30,000 rounds of ammunition would be pointless even if you have 3 people to distribute the load i honestly dont believe you can carry it and all your essential gear we need to put our minds together and figure out where the point of not enough and to much meet say you got a 45. and a riffle id like to carry at most 10x 50 cartridge boxes of 45. and ehhh for my 22-250 no less than 300 maybe less for the pistol more for the riffle this is what im suggesting we figure out

 

[DrHenley]

So maybe I should go ahead and stash part of my ammo inventory at the BOL ahead of time in waterproof ammo cans.

 

[alabaster]

imho when it hits the fan the few good people there will be, will be so hard to differentiate from the bad guys so to me the risk out weighs the reward,... (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) this is the only mind set that i can have because i love my family im not willing to risk my infants life and my wifes good health just because times are hard if your starving your not dead

Not everyone you cross paths with will be worse off than you. In fact, unless you are an extremely well off prepper, you're bound to find people who don't necessarily need you. Those folks you really might want to barter with, but you might have a hard time convincing them.

As SilentBob said, I understand what "Not enough ammo" is. I've never been in a situation where I thought I'd taken too much ammo. I understand that there is the issue of not being able to load it out, and that's a different story. If you can't carry it, then... You can't carry it. If you can get ahead of the curve, like Henley said, then you can get ammo to where you intend to BO to.

This idea of splitting up pistol and rifle ammo really opens the discussion up. You may live an area where a 22-250 is "Too much" gun. If you're taking shots 90% of the time, that are within 50 or 75 yds, then you really may want more pistol ammo. Depending on where you live, a 22-250 may not suit you're needs as well as say, an AR or an AK. Then too you come across the weight of the 45. The weight of 45 vs 9mm just doesn't play out well IMO. I would rather have 9 due to it's availability and it's weight, which when talking about thousands of rounds, can save quite a bit. My $.02

 

[anonymousAmerican]

Not everyone you cross paths with will be worse off than you. In fact, unless you are an extremely well off prepper, you're bound to find people who don't necessarily need you. Those folks you really might want to barter with, but you might have a hard time convincing them.

As SilentBob said, I understand what "Not enough ammo" is. I've never been in a situation where I thought I'd taken too much ammo. I understand that there is the issue of not being able to load it out, and that's a different story. If you can't carry it, then... You can't carry it. If you can get ahead of the curve, like Henley said, then you can get ammo to where you intend to BO to.

This idea of splitting up pistol and rifle ammo really opens the discussion up. You may live an area where a 22-250 is "Too much" gun. If you're taking shots 90% of the time, that are within 50 or 75 yds, then you really may want more pistol ammo. Depending on where you live, a 22-250 may not suit you're needs as well as say, an AR or an AK. Then too you come across the weight of the 45. The weight of 45 vs 9mm just doesn't play out well IMO. I would rather have 9 due to it's availability and it's weight, which when talking about thousands of rounds, can save quite a bit. My $.02

the 9 is for my so she is a small women like 5'2 110 she cant carry very much weight so it is more suitable for her than i and in case of cqb ill put a lower power scope on my 22-250 accuracy over capacity any day

 

[DrHenley]

I fully understand the economy of the 9mm over the 45, both in terms of cost and portability. That is one of the reasons I used a 9mm for a long time. And I would not argue with anyone who would prefer a 9mm. I guess what it boils down to is that I simply prefer something that makes a bigger hole. The BOB gun is a 22, with a lot more ammo than I could carry in either 9mm or 45. But my EDC gun is a 45 and I just can't bring myself to go back to 9mm.

I do have an ammo box full of 9mm however...for barter.

 

[Trapper]

the 9 is for my so she is a small women like 5'2 110 she cant carry very much weight so it is more suitable for her than i and in case of cqb ill put a lower power scope on my 22-250 accuracy over capacity any day

With your SO carrying 9mm and you 45 now you have 2 calibers to try and stock. There is a lot to be said about keeping keeping the number of different calibers to a minimum. There is also an advantage of both of you carrying the same weapons.

One question you have to ask is how much accuracy do you need? My AR shoots 1"/100yd groups easily. My bolt 223 shoots clover leaves at the same distance. While the 22~250 is a great cartridge I don't see any advantage with it in a SHTF scenario.

 

[alabaster]

I'm not anti-45, I recognize the "Big Hole Factor". I just prefer the 9 because as an instructor, I have seen that it suits more people. I agree too that you need accuracy, but handguns have notoriously poor stopping power, regardless of caliber.

When it comes to rifles, I agree accuracy is important. So is reliability. Depending on the rifle's intended use, round count and speed of reloading can be hugely important, too. Otherwise the current battlefield rifle would be a bolt gun. Each person's situation needs to be accounted for when it comes to anything, and prepping is no different. If you live in the sticks and are bugging in, bolt guns from defensive positions are a great idea. If you're running from your own neighborhood and are in unfamiliar territory, they may not be as good an idea. Even with a very low, fixed power scope, you have a hard time getting off a shot, and follow up shots with bolt actions are no where near the fire rate of semi autos.

I'm not trying to poo poo anyone's idea, but I'm starting to feel like I'm engaging in a "Mine is better than yours" debate. This approach wont work here, and most certainly won't work in the real world of prepping. Here is another reason why it's not a bad idea to network with people in your area. Not everyone has to have 100% coverage of each aspect of prepping. Teams allow people to focus on a rounded skill set, but also a certain "Specialty" if you will.

 

[anonymousAmerican]

points taken, the only other rifles i have are a 22 hornet, 22, 22 mag, 7mm mag and a 30-06. Now as you can see the largest cartridge i can carry that i own and be the most efficient and by efficient I mean lethal, accurate to at least 300 yards, and maximum ammo count without being to much of a load. Taking all these factors into account the 22-250 is the best riffle as of now for myself. My so will carry my ruger 10/22. Each individual will and should be responsible to carry their own ration of ammo. Another factor to take into account is that if engaged you can easily pick up the weapon of a neutralized threat.

 

[alabaster]

I'm guessing you're from the west. Everyone I know with a 7mm mag(Except one) lives out west. The one who doesn't got it in a barter from someone who DID live out west. Beanfield rifles. East coasters use 30s, and west coasters use 7s.

22 Hornet and 22 Mag are fun calibers to shoot, but sometimes come in some odd platforms. May I ask what guns you have chambered in those calibers?