SHTF Christian use of force

[BadgerLandHunter]

My thoughts are, if you threaten me or my family, then you are a candidate for death. Whether you end up living or dieing will depend on the situation and my subjective assessment of the threat level. e.g., Kick in my door and break into my house, not a whole lot of assessment needed there, I would shoot you dead on the spot. Stand in my front yard and scream "I'm going to kill you if you don't give me your supplies" will be situational. Be aware, you are never going to get any supplies if you "ask" like that. At the start of a SHTF scenario, this kind of behavior is most likely from desperation, is probably not a grave threat to me, and most likely you would be given the opportunity to leave my property alive. However, the time may come as the SHTF scenario goes on, behavior like this will indeed get you killed. It is my subjective call, there are no rules or precedents that I am forced to follow. I will decide based on that particular scenario on that particular day. My decision may be influenced by trivial things, like if I didn't sleep well the night before. Or how mean you look. Too bad for you. My recommendation is for you not to engage in risky behavior like this and think you are in any way protected. My plan is for trespassers to never know if they are going to go away with a donut, or a bullet. Keep 'em on their toes and on their best behavior.

Thanks for your thoughts. That is the key thing I totally agree with. I won't be out side with a sign that says only robbers get shot or anything that would give them a feeling of security. If they are afraid to approach all the less stress and choosing that I need to do.

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

I stopped buying the cans of mandarin oranges years ago when I found out they all came from China. Haven't checked on that recently so it might be different now. Most product pages have the info on where they come from. At the bottom of the Great Value page, a consumer asked if the tuna came from China. This was the response.

None of our Great Value Tuna is packed in China. The majority of Great Value Tuna is produced in either American Samoa (which is a territory of the United States) or Ecuador. While a small amount of our tuna is also packed in Thailand, all facilities must follow the same stringent United States government regulations as plants located inside the country.
by HelpPL

Great Value Chunk Light Tuna in Water, 12 oz - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

Getting back on topic, I'm not physically able to put up a defense against an intruder so I try not to keep weapons that could be used against me. Well, other than my kitchen knives. Even if I could, I'm not willing to trade my life for my supplies so I think it would depend on the circumstances. I've had a couple of instances when I was dealing with someone that I thought would or could kill me. The first instance, my daughter was with me. She and I both completely froze. Not a move, not a sound, not a breath. Turns out that was the correct response because after staring at me for a few minutes, visibly fighting his urge to attack me, he left.

Wow glad nothing happened. They say it's not just fight or flight.....it's fight, flight, OR freeze. If it worked it worked you live to go on another day.

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

If you can lift a gun you have the strength to put up a fight. I don't want you to trade your life for your supplies, I want you to stop the murdering character so you can keep your supplies and live well.
After they take your supplies do you think they will just walk away? There are worse things than dying ... and some of them are worth killing to prevent.

Exactly and I'm not saying I'm not willing to if my life is threatened. There is a big difference with "can you spare....." and "give me......or I will use the gun with me!"

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

I'd rather defend myself with a gun anytime over a kitchen knife. A kitchen knife would put me too close to an attacker, and that would be a last resort for me.

Some pro guy was saying in a knife fight expect to get cut even if you win it.

A simple cut can be a big problem in SHTF.

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

A preacher I know said: A person is one of these three...

1) What's mine is mine and I shall keep it.

2) What's yours is mine and I shall take it.

3) What's mine is yours and I shall share it.

Then he said... Who you are is Your Choice

Mag

Totally agree that's the choices.

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

Well there are knives to throw and there are ninja stars to throw

Ninja stars are harder to not damage with if you hit the target. A knife with only one edge on it is less likely to always hit and requires more practice.

A coworker at my old job made knifes for a hobby on his free time. He also enjoyed throwing knifes. Well someone broke in his house and he through 3 at the 2 guys scaring them off. He missed with one and didn't land the sharp part on the others. He said he hit em though. Lol.

I've also read people say don't use them if you don't kill em you just gave them a weapon to use on you.

Throwing stars are probably lighter but if you land it you did damage.

 

[Morgan101]

I never understood the reasoning behind a throwing weapon. If I have a weapon why do I want to throw it and not have a weapon? If you miss you have to walk past the bad guy to go get it. If you stick it in the bad guy, and it doesn't stop the fight what are you going to do? Ask for it back?

This is the last paragraph from a paper written by Maj L Caudill USMC Retired on why the Gun is Civilization. Preface this with his opening statement "There are only two ways you can get me to do something. You can reason with me (persuade me), or you can force me.

When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation… And that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

 

[Neb]

The Princess and I plan to supply the local church so we can help those in need without revealing our preps.

Ben

 

[hiwall]

BadgerLandHunter
You are wise to bring up this discussion on the use of force, especially now while we are all safe. Everyone would want to make the decision now so they will be prepared before that decision is critical. Better to decide things when you are calm and have plenty time to make that decision rather than at a bad time when you have only seconds to make the choice (or have the choice made for you).


When I was teaching concealed carry classes I stressed to all students to very carefully weigh their decision to carry a gun. By making the choice to carry a gun, they were also making the choice to take the life of another if they were in an altercation. Not a decision to take lightly.

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

I am really crappy at throwing most things. But I can sling lead pretty good.

Sam

The Princess and I plan to supply the local church so we can help those in need without revealing our preps.

Ben

That's really nice and smart.

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

BadgerLandHunter
You are wise to bring up this discussion on the use of force, especially now while we are all safe. Everyone would want to make the decision now so they will be prepared before that decision is critical. Better to decide things when you are calm and have plenty time to make that decision rather than at a bad time when you have only seconds to make the choice (or have the choice made for you).


When I was teaching concealed carry classes I stressed to all students to very carefully weigh their decision to carry a gun. By making the choice to carry a gun, they were also making the choice to take the life of another if they were in an altercation. Not a decision to take lightly.

Thanks yeah better to sit on the question now then react to the situation later.

Definitely as far as the CC goes. Also if you aren't sure if you can shoot when you need to don't carry. No use in threatening to shoot a perp and then not be able to. It's like great now brought a loaded outstretched to someone who thought you were going to shoot.
If they don't run.....well you're done.

 

[Morgan101]

The Princess and I plan to supply the local church so we can help those in need without revealing our preps.

Ben

IMHO that is THE best way to handle it. Turn everybody away, and tell them where they can get help. You can help those in need, and nobody knows what you have.

 

[kd4ulw]

Biblical use of force... well, preparedness for use of force.

Luke 22:31-38 NIV
31 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
33 But he replied, “Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death.”
34 Jesus answered, “I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me.”
35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.

 

[Meerkat]

Ninja stars are harder to not damage with if you hit the target. A knife with only one edge on it is less likely to always hit and requires more practice.

A coworker at my old job made knifes for a hobby on his free time. He also enjoyed throwing knifes. Well someone broke in his house and he through 3 at the 2 guys scaring them off. He missed with one and didn't land the sharp part on the others. He said he hit em though. Lol.

I've also read people say don't use them if you don't kill em you just gave them a weapon to use on you.

Throwing stars are probably lighter but if you land it you did damage.

Hubby use to be relly good with knumbchucks. He had a special forces freind in teh 70s plus his nephew is Navy Seal.
Of course no matter how good you are mistakes can happen and one day in front of my mother he cracked the front of his head wide open and blood spurted out mama almost passed out and he wasn't all that concious either.Those sticks would disappear he had em going so fast. He use to practice between two trees. I haven't seen him use them in about 15 years though. Not for self defence just for fun.One tiem he told my son to get his sticks when known knife puller was giving him some crap, say what you want but the guy with the knife would have lost that fight and he must have known it ,he left in a hurry.

 

[SheepDog]

OK, first those stars are made to distract an attacker - not to stop him.
A knife is no good if you don't have it, so learn to use it properly.

A family approaches my house I will look at then and ask joyfully, "have you got food?" If they say no then I can explain that I am going to go to the church or food bank in town cause I heard they had some. If they say yes then I will ask where they got it. Either way it sounds like I have nothing so there is no target. If they decide they can eat me, well I won't judge their hunger actions but I will introduce them to the one who will.

 

[Neb]

OK, first those stars are made to distract an attacker - not to stop him.
A knife is no good if you don't have it, so learn to use it properly.

A family approaches my house I will look at then and ask joyfully, "have you got food?" If they say no then I can explain that I am going to go to the church or food bank in town cause I heard they had some. If they say yes then I will ask where they got it. Either way it sounds like I have nothing so there is no target. If they decide they can eat me, well I won't judge their hunger actions but I will introduce them to the one who will.

That is a nice way to gather the various ideas included herein.

Thank you!

Ben

 

[SheepDog]

Ben, you are welcome.
I'm not selling anything, not here to change anybody's mind just saying what I believe is right.
Other folks are going to believe what they want, do as they think they should. The Creator like honest folks.

 

[Neb]

Ben, you are welcome.
I'm not selling anything, not here to change anybody's mind just saying what I believe is right.
Other folks are going to believe what they want, do as they think they should. The Creator like honest folks.

Amen ( hebrew for "true and sure")

Same here @SheepDog. .

Ben

 

[hashbrown]

My responsibility is to my family, best not come up on Peckerwood Ridge.

 

[SheepDog]

Hashbrown,
How about if I bring my wife, chickens and beer?

 

[viking]

Probably have to take into account what 1Tim.5:8 says, you need to take care of your own
household first, otherwise you may be considered worse than an infidel. I saw this in a different way years ago when a family I knew were living in a small hunting trailer with the kids living in a tent, the dad had sold all of his hunting rifles to make ends meet, meanwhile the church had directed that everyone needed to pay tithes and offerings, somewhat pushing the idea that if you didn't, you were not as spiritual as you should be. I don't know if that family made out alright, from what I heard, I don't think they did. I can understand some sacrifice, but putting your families health and wellbeing at risk just to make it seem that one is "more spiritual", fits what this scripture has to say.

 

[Neb]

...
make it seem that one is "more spiritual", fits what this scripture has to say.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Ben

 

[Spikedriver]

I've made my moral decisions. If that time ever comes, I'll take each situation as it comes and act accordingly. I don't believe a blanket statement of, "Nobody allowed" is adequate.

I think we can all agree that there is nothing morally wrong with self defense. But everything else...do as your conscience dictates. Hopefully you've got a good conscience...

 

[MagBlackhawk]

From post number 71:

Also if you aren't sure if you can shoot when you need to don't carry.

^ True, True and Very True!
A North East Texas Methodist preacher proved that a day or two ago. I don't have all the information but it seems like the preacher tried to run a bad guy off by pointing a pistol at the BG without shooting. The BG got shot in the hand, preacher shot dead and two others injured by the preacher's gun after the BG took it away from the preacher.
The church was not targeted. Apparently the BG was trying to hide from police and was on the run after a previous shooting.
If you have to point a gun at a BG you have to shoot, RIGHT NOW!


From post number 73:

35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
................ 38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

Not disagreeing with the point made or anything said but we should note that they were traveling thru a dangerous area with plenty of bad guys about. Also, Jesus sent them out for a sword and in this gospel (Luke) it is reported they came back with two. They were armed but not nearly as heavily as most of us will be when SHTF. (BTW, I'll be armed with a long gun, pistol and more, as will everybody in my group).

Mag

 

[Sam]

Keep your big mouth shut NOW! To tell one is to tell all and that puts your family on radar...anyone's! Look like anyone else and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! We all have only so much and once you give that away you are now one of them...in need. Who is going to help you? Christian kindness is one thing, being stupid is something else. When I was a little boy my Mom told me about having to watch the clothes line to keep people from stealing the clothes on the line.
We are heading into troubling water, why look for problem's? Why risk your home, family for a kind act?
Sam

 

[MagBlackhawk]

Keep your big mouth shut NOW!
////////
Why risk your home, family for a kind act?

If you have to ask...

Mag

 

[Neb]

Keep your big mouth shut NOW! To tell one is to tell all and that puts your family on radar...anyone's! Look like anyone else and KEEP YOUR MOUTH ...

problem's? Why risk your home, family for a kind act?
Sam

In a worldly conext the answer to your question is obvious but in this thread the crazy idea of Christianity is a factor.

The word Christian means Crist like. Not that they have his divine nature but rather attempt to be like him and adhere to his lessons.

One of his most powerful messages talks about the power of a crazy concept "faith".

Faith is what drove Noah to build an ark, Abraham to attempt to sacrifice his only son, David to take on Goliath, Elijah to raise the dead, call down fire from heaven and do battle with the Preists of Baal.

Jesus fed mutitudes with a handful of fish and loaves of bread and cure afflictions and cast out deamons. Faith let him walk as a sheep to his own death and thereby conquer death once and for all.

Faith is what allows a Christian doing stupid stuff just because it is the right thing to do.

Funny,strange and powerful idea "faith".

Ben

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

OK, first those stars are made to distract an attacker - not to stop him.
A knife is no good if you don't have it, so learn to use it properly.

A family approaches my house I will look at then and ask joyfully, "have you got food?" If they say no then I can explain that I am going to go to the church or food bank in town cause I heard they had some. If they say yes then I will ask where they got it. Either way it sounds like I have nothing so there is no target. If they decide they can eat me, well I won't judge their hunger actions but I will introduce them to the one who will.

I was just telling a coworker something similar. If they approach ask if they have anything to spare. Right there that might make them stop shake there head and leave. Well at least they had s chance.

 

[Neb]

I was just telling a coworker something similar. If they approach ask if they have anything to spare. Right there that might make them stop shake there head and leave. Well at least they had s chance.

All the more reason to take an abundance of preps if we have to bug out. Beans bullets and gold should by passage.

Ben

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

I've made my moral decisions. If that time ever comes, I'll take each situation as it comes and act accordingly. I don't believe a blanket statement of, "Nobody allowed" is adequate.

I think we can all agree that there is nothing morally wrong with self defense. But everything else...do as your conscience dictates. Hopefully you've got a good conscience...

Exactly self defense is self defense. That's pretty cut and dry to me. I posted this for the gray area which now is less gray.

Yes I do. Some times over active. Lol