Survival Guns

[Silent Bob]

Typically, I should have placed this in the firearms area, but because they are pretty much the minimum and is more directed to the new prepper, I've decided to place this helpful PDF.

I want new preppers to remember, I am not recommending one weapon over another. Each have their specific use in survival, but these would be the basics and for those that are like me, I have all 5 of 5 on the recommendation, as part of my home defense, cache or at the BOL.

 

[Graynomad]

Shame it's almost impossible to get a licence for a 10/22 in Oz, at least that was the story I got in the gun shop a few days ago.

And the 30.06 surprises me, I hardly ever hear mention of that calibre around the forums, usually it's 308 that gets the nod.

 

[Silent Bob]

Shame it's almost impossible to get a licence for a 10/22 in Oz, at least that was the story I got in the gun shop a few days ago.

And the 30.06 surprises me, I hardly ever hear mention of that calibre around the forums, usually it's 308 that gets the nod.

Old hunting rifle I have is 30-06....I used it in the Dakotas and Montana for hunting. Like I said, these were the bare minimum. In the states they are easy to find, in fact you can pick up a 30-06 or 308 cheaper than you can buy the Colt 45 handgun. More because of the demand than anything else. The 9mm, for me is a throw away gun, lol, literally, I plan to throw it at them and then run! 9mm won't stop a determined aggressor. but my 45 will. 9mm is just easy to carry on the front of my vest and easy to handle when switching from my rifle, well at least that is how I train during my entry scenarios. 45 is strapped to my leg.

 

[DrHenley]

Well he obviously is not up to date on 1911s. There are plenty that don't need gunsmithing now, even some Colts. And some are about the same price as the tupperware guns (RIA for example)

Yeah I have one of the Colts that needed two years of intensive care before I could run a match with it. But I have a Dan Wesson and a Sig that were born match ready.

 

[DrHenley]

He has a Remington 1100 listed as a "12 gauge pump shotgun"

 

[Silent Bob]

Well he obviously is not up to date on 1911s. There are plenty that don't need gunsmithing now, even some Colts. And some are about the same price as the tupperware guns (RIA for example)

Yeah I have one of the Colts that needed two years of intensive care before I could run a match with it. But I have a Dan Wesson and a Sig that were born match ready.

As always DrHenley, I defer competition firing and arms to you and Vernon. I decided just to post something for the newbie prep folks.

 

[Silent Earth]

God needed a gun , not just any gun but the best gun ever and so he created the FN FAL SLR which he give to the worthy, the rest he gave M16s and AK47s, So sayeth the Lord in the greatest of holy books The British Army Infantrymans guide. Nuff said

Why have bread when you can have Gateaux , Why have 5.56 when you can have 7.62 !

 

[Marv.Schmitz87]

9mm won't stop a determined aggressor. but my 45 will.

Its all about the bullet and shot placement. There are enough studies out there showing that the 9mm defense rounds are equal in stopping power to the .45 acp, even the smaller calibers like the .380 acp.

It wont stop an intruder if you hit im in the arm with a .45 nor with a 9mm. But hit im in the vitals and it doesnt matter if its a .45, a 9mm or a .380
With bullet development today we have very decent self defense rounds in the big three calibers.
I rather have a gun that holds 15 rounds of 9mm hollow point than a gun that holds 8 rounds of .45.
But thats my own opinion.

What it basicly comes down to is what you are confident in shooting and carrying.

If you carry a .45 or a 9mm or a .380, it will do the job with the right shot placement.

Check it out:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

 

[Silent Earth]

Spot on Marv its accuracy that matters a 22 into the heart does the job just as well as a 45, I always preferred 9mm para cost the weapon ( Browning GP) was much more pleasant to shoot than a 45, and the SAS / SBS etc all chose 9mm over 45 through combat experience until the 10 mm / 40cal round gained acceptance. I like most Brits was also taught to double tap as the norm, something very difficult to do with a 45acp. Still at the end of the day in calibre choice all opinions are valid, cos what works fot me may not work for the next guy.

 

[Silent Bob]

God needed a gun , not just any gun but the best gun ever and so he created the FN FAL SLR which he give to the worthy, the rest he gave M16s and AK47s, So sayeth the Lord in the greatest of holy books The British Army Infantrymans guide. Nuff said

Why have bread when you can have Gateaux , Why have 5.56 when you can have 7.62 !

May have to differ on that one...God made the 50 cal. Colt and Lake City Ammunition made the 5.56 because they were tired of hearing the grunt complain about carrying 45 caliber 30 cal. :m4:. By the way when in lieu of the FN, if I could get my hands on one the M245, that would be my choice, as it was in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Silent Earth]

Try carrying a 50 cal all day

 

[Silent Bob]

Try carrying a 50 cal all day

I have, humped one in Iraq and have one sitting in the gun cabinet.

 

[Silent Earth]

Well I humped an SLR around Ulster, Britain, Kenya, Canada, and Germany and that was heavy enough for me especially with a full combat load on my back

Way back then when we were NEEDING them not just FEEDING them I loved the 7.62 SLR as it gave us a big range advantage over the buggers staring at us over the inner German border, but for some stupid and pointless reason the eejits in Nato decided we had to go over to 5.56 which is not a good round for European battle fields. Then of course Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum ( Bush and Blair) decided start invading other countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and......... Lo and Behold almost immediately British and American grunts started complaining about the lack of range and penetration of the L85A2 and the M4 / M16's 5.56 ammo. Within weeks both Brit and US govts were rummaging around looking for M14s in 7.62 plus other 7.62 sized rifles to send out to back up the inadequate 5.56 gear. Thank god in the interim for GPMGs in the UK and M60s in the US plus the refurbished M14s and other tools rushed into service. Now I see that Nato is reappraising the decision to go 5.56.

Reach out and touch someone 7.62 style ( and 50 cal style if you can obtain a Barrat )

 

[Silent Earth]

Hey Bob You say "May have to differ on that one...God made the 50 cal" . Then your DATA box says "
Location:
Texas
Favorite Weapon:
FN-FAL
?????? Gotcha

 

[DrHenley]

My gut says that when using ball ammo (round nose full metal jacket), a 45 will outperform a 9mm (anecdotal evidence from our troops seem to back this up).

But with a good hollowpoint, a 9mm may very well hold it's own with the big bores, and a 380 HP may outperform a 9mm FMJ...unless the perp is wearing heavy clothing which clogs up the HP. As they say, a 9mm HP may expand to 45 caliber, but a 45 caliber will never shrink to 9mm.

 

[Silent Bob]

Hey Bob You say "May have to differ on that one...God made the 50 cal" . Then your DATA box says "
Location:
Texas
Favorite Weapon:
FN-FAL
?????? Gotcha

First, if I offended you, I am sorry if you feel I called you out. Your right, that is my weapon if the event happens, it means everything I hold dear to my heart, the Constitution, the way we live as American's has gone to #%$^. Something at least the realistic preppers hold our breathe and try not to think about. I am sure my friends would agree.

First, my first FN was a gift from a special friend from England. While I was stationed in England, I worked with some great bunch of people. I won't go into the how and why's. I didn't dispute that the FN-FAL is not a good rifle. I just believe in ballistics and statistics that in the hands of a good marksman, the 50 cal is a cut above, when you have to reach out and engage an opponent from a distance. I'd like to think the FN was capable of that, but simply after years of my use of one both on ranges and live fire exercises, will not meet the capability of the 50 cal in performance. As for FN-FAL, I have two, one (auto) in the safe and one (semi) that rides with me each day to work, not to mention a M-4 and a 45. For those who are my friends, who know I am a retired military and chose amongst my many professions, but finally love teaching, I park my vehicle off campus.

Yes, darn right I live in Texas, thank god one state adopted me! I certainly couldn't head back to New York...and live gun laws like you have in England. Darn liberals and high taxes made me rethink where I want to live, besides the wife has a great oil job that allows me to dump my military retirement money into the kids college fund and my prepper life.

If SHTF (I really hate that phrase), the FN-FAL automatic will go with me, the wife will be hefting the M-4 automatic. Son will be holding his own and the daughter well she has hers, but is stored off campus at a prepper friend of mine. I certainly could have also said the Remington is just a good of weapon, since my son and I have done seriously training with both it and the 50 cal.

I don't dispute that a 7.62 will stop most. However, you have to remember ballistics...the 5.56 for the military is not "Hollow" point, its ball (FMJ). So anything that is struck is going to have an ugly through and through. We all have our loves...the 50 cal is just something that I have a special spot for in my heart or I wouldn't have bought one. I'd rather enjoy spending time with my son and the Remington 308. As for guns, their is a purpose for all, me, I think it is the time I get to spend with my son and daughter on a range.

By the way, DrHenley, Roninsensei and those that spend time with loved ones on the range...you know that special moment...part of the reason, I dare say, I don't spend much time commenting on the weapon forum. Another reason, why I don't chime in on the Gun forum. I will leave those that I respect to weigh in on this issue.

Well enjoy the threads and good luck.

 

[Silent Earth]

Gosh No offence taken at all, just old warriors enjoying a good chat

Calibre be damned its accuracy that counts, you could have a punt gun or a 20 mm canon but if you don't hit the target .........

Salutations from Rifleman to another

 

[alabaster]

Not a fan. I would have put this in "Firearms" as it's creating more debate than it is helping newbs.

I can understand the 870. I prefer Winchester shotguns, and Mossies, but Remi will do there.

I'm out on their rifles. There's too much trouble with Remington rifles to give them another go. Police & military own them and I'm convinced that's what's driven their sales more than quality. Winchester M70, please. I'm good with 30-06 since it has so many weights and tons of ammo, but I'm one of the preppers graynomad mentioned, I am of the 308 crowd...

Which also makes me stand up for 9mm because its the round of the world. It's got ammo and parts availability(Speaking on the G17, 19, or even 26) that are second to none. I am in camp with Marv.Schmitz here, too. 9mm is fine with proper shot placement. Jim Cirillo(Or was it Massad Ayoob?) once told of a man who was carjacked and shot with a 44 magnum IN THE FACE, and wasn't knocked out, only to drive two blocks before bleeding out. There are not magic bullets. I believe in proper hollowpoints(And some fragmenting bullets) and always proper shot placement... The 1911 would be a fairly distant 2nd pick for me(Though I do LOVE 1911s). They're lower in capacity, heavier, harder to repair(I am more than capable as a pistolsmith, but not everyone is). Glock parts(And most poly pistols) are drop fitted. No filing or stoning, just remove and replace.

Of course the 223 is a good round- In it's place. Shooting THROUGH WALLS isn't a good idea for virtually anyone or any caliber... Did he really refer to the "Saviors of Waco" as the ones who were firing into the compound without knowing who they're shooting at? I must say I'm utterly disgusted about that... I digress. AR platform is definitely too complicated for most folks. AKs are not. Bolt actions are fine if you don't have to shoot in a hurry. Again, the lack of capacity makes me wonder what the writer was preparing to survive. An elk attack, or the cult who he wants to shoot at even though he can't see them. BTW, military DO NOT get "Good stuff" in that caliber. They're relegated to FMJ rounds, and green tip penetrators. HP rounds are the "Good stuff", though penetrators do have their place. All are available to civilians. Hollow point, penetrators, and standard full metal jacket. Finally, most penetrator rounds are 62gr and aren't the most accurate in civilian guns that are mostly designed to shoot 55gr bullets.

Ruger 10/22. Yes, please. Bar none my favorite 22 of all time.

 

[Silent Earth]

Yup I think the ubiquitous 22LR round is probably in the long term going to not only be the calibre of choice when not war fighting, but is also likely to be a contender as a replacement tender for paper currency. I think if I could only pick one gun for my use it would be something in 22 calibre.

Oddly enough over here in the Uk a few of my associates who are into legal gun ownership are giving a lot of attention to the Ruger 10/22 Take Down rifle, those who have it love it and those who don't are giving serious consideration to getting one.

Shotgun wise I'm totally biased to the Mossberg 500 series with its twin rails.

 

[DrHenley]

Speaking of using 22LR as currency in the SHTF, I have had a problem keeping 22 ammo long term. I've had it go bad in less than a year. THIS, however, could very well be the perfect 22 ammo for that purpose:

Apparently everyone else thinks so too, so getting your hands on it is nigh on impossible at the moment. I managed to slip in a backorder at MidwayUSA back in September of last year while they briefly took backorders. I just got it a week ago...9 months after I ordered it. Midway has not been taking new orders since then.

 

[Silent Earth]

Very good and important point Doc, we can have all the biggest, baddest and blingiest guns available but if our Ammo is not stored properly it will go off. Theres many alternatives available for treating and storing ammo, I'll leave it to others to cover that issue.

In 1997 the army Cadets I was teaching were using 22LR ammo out of waxed cardboard packets that had been made in the early 70s and it worked fine so good storage must be a major issue for our community.

 

[Arizonaopa]

Typically, I should have placed this in the firearms area, but because they are pretty much the minimum and is more directed to the new prepper, I've decided to place this helpful PDF.

I want new preppers to remember, I am not recommending one weapon over another. Each have their specific use in survival, but these would be the basics and for those that are like me, I have all 5 of 5 on the recommendation, as part of my home defense, cache or at the BOL.

I have 4 of the 5. Instead of a 1911, I have a Springfield XD45. I also have a Mosin, a 243, and a 308 as well as several other handgun and rifle calibers. I like your list as a beginning point.

 

[alabaster]

... if our Ammo is not stored properly it will go off. Theres many alternatives available for treating and storing ammo, I'll leave it to others to cover that issue....

To be quite honest with you, I'm more worried about it not going off. I've seen that happen when not properly stored.
,

 

[Silent Earth]

Those chaps who like me favour 9mm over other pistol rounds have you ever considered a 9mm pistol and something like a 9mm carbine?

 

[Roninsensei]

I have the g17 and the keltec sub 2000. They are magazine interchangeable and with a small investment the keltec is a great folding carbine.

 

[psalm 7]

I prefer the 9mm round in simi auto sidearm for its quick followup shot and mag capacity . I put my ammo in Military surplus ammo cans and add a moisture elimanatos packet and keep them stacked in a corner simple enough . No extreme timpretures or high humidity seems to be the key . I am going to start buying the comercial plastic ammo cans because the demand for surplus is driving prices through the roof .

 

[Roninsensei]

Mines like this one.

 

[jontte]

I do feel little envy inside

 

[NEONOBODY]

Before buying ANY gun, I would recommend reading "The Art of War" by Sun Tsu. It should be required reading for anybody in the least concerned with a firearm in a SHTF situation.

 

[psalm 7]

Was he a sniper too ? Im thinking about writing a book .