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Jeager,

What you said shocked me, but with thought it really does ring more true than ever. I recently read an article that went into this, but it was focused mostly on the fallacy of black poverty. A few details:
* Black families with 2 parents where both parents work full time jobs have a poverty rate of 2%. TWO PERCENT!
* 8% of black married couples live in poverty
* 46% of single black women with children live in poverty.

So 1 in 50 black working couples with children are in poverty. But 1 in 2 black single women with kids are in poverty. And I'll bet the stat's are similar regardless of race: white, hispanic, asian, etc. Two really simple lessons: 1) WAIT until you're married to have kids and 2) get a JOB.

NOW here is the shocking statement that will blow away our liberal readers. CANCELLING 95% OF WELFARE WILL SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE POVERTY NUMBERS.

Chew on that idea. Really think about it. Many women have kids out of wedlock because it's a culture to pop them out & live on the dole. They're perfectly happy living in poverty and not working. And they're raising the next generation to do the same which will cost 10 times more. My thought is to cut the cord. It can be to all at once, or weaned over a matter of months, or cut off from any future applications, any of these can work. Now we'll have to get past the "oh poor me" stories for a while. But when you take away the carrot you change behavior. Women will learn that not having kids will be to their benefit. And guys will learn that they have responsibilities that cost a whole lot.

Women really can decide not to have kids until their lives are stable and they can support them. Women are brighter than guys in general. And there can be other consequences. A woman pops out kids but won't care for them? OK, the state will take the kids into foster, AND spay the mother. Animal shelters do this all the time. Now they don't have to do this on day one, but maybe on the 2nd kid? Or 6 months of help then do it? Or she can leave the country & not return (without getting spayed).

All this sounds very cruel. But an economic collapse will be much worse.

It is true, the cord should be cut and it won't be pretty. But that would be true freedom. True freedom is living with the choices you made.
 
Yes and true freedom is NOT living on the dole if one is capable of
WORKING.

Those on the dole because of race are STILL slaves.
Slaves to the system they wanted.
 
It is true, the cord should be cut and it won't be pretty. But that would be true freedom. True freedom is living with the choices you made.

I have to be careful going too far. "True Freedom" would go to anarchy and nobody wants that.

An interesting note previously mentioned. Historically, "welfare" was the domain of the Church. And I don't recall anyone saying that the "church" was unfair or insufficient. I wonder if the gov't getting involved was the gov't sticking its fingers where the didn't belong. They couldn't say the Church was racist: there were white churches and black churches and hispanic churches. They can't say the church wasn't in places, they are everywhere. And churches often (then and now) help people whether they are members or not, Christian or not. Now the Church is nowhere near as strong as it once was, but I think it is plenty strong to provide the welfare needed.

So, I am withdrawing my previous comment that welfare should be cut to 5 or 10%. You've made excellent points, it should be dropped at the federal level to 0.00%. Let local charities provide what help is really needed. And if some wacko leftist cities want to give handouts to every leach in their town, they can have at it. But they will have to TAX their own residence to get this money with zero federal help. OK, State power, if some states want to do it, that's their choice. But voters can see if they really want to vote for these spenders, and people can move to get away from these leach taxes. In fact I think that will be even better, the leaches will all move to the liberal cities/states and crush them under their freeloading lifestyle.

Can anyone say "Illinois Bankruptcy"?
 
“The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”
- Margaret Thatcher

Nah!

Just ask Nancy Pelosi. She'll tell you the "Rich" (of course that doesn't include her!) just need to pay their fair share. 15%. 25%. 35%. 45%. But don't worry, if it gets to 100%, it's not over! She'll just crank it to 110%. Just like banks can pay negative interest rates, she'll find a justification to charge more in taxes than people actually take home!

And if that isn't enough? Make it 120%, and take death taxes to a full 100%. Then she'll take these evil rich people and make them take on debt to pay up. If the gov't can go into massive debt, why can't they force selfish evil rich people to do the same?

The real trouble with socialism is that it destroys the people that they allegedly are claiming to help!

Russia did this with the Bolsheviks. Hitler did this to the Jews & handicapped. Obama will effectively do this to his own black race (or half of his race, but he claims to be black so I'll go with that).

It is going to get ugly.
 
In the republic we were allowed to rise and fall on our own accord, in the modern democracy we are penalized and demonized for the rise and rewarded for the fall. Unfortunately the majority truly believe we were founded as a democracy which isn't true! When we stopped being recognized as individuals we lost the Republic and our souls. Democracy is nothing short of socialism and perhaps we can call democracy socialism-light though today not much difference between the two! Democracy today means freedom by permission slip only, we are a social democracy, we aren't really even a participatory democracy we certainly ain't a Republic today.
 
Liberals, I call 'em Libbydumbs, are the worlds biggest fools.
The MOST brainwashed political party the U.S. has ever tolerated.
Ask any Democrat how the party of "give away everything" got started
and you will get that "deer in the headlights" stare.

So how was the demodumb party started.

By the K.K.K.

What demographic groups are almost 100% Democrat?

Blacks and Latino's.
Go figger????

How did that happen?
Liberals promised "vote Democrat and we will give you anything you want
except a job
."
Liberals have always taxed those that work to pay for those that don't
in exchange for votes.

Why do Democrats seem to forget that the KKK was founded as the militant arm of the Democratic party after the Civil War?
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Democr...m-of-the-Democratic-party-after-the-Civil-War

If I stepped on any Liberal toes here...............................

Get over it.

Truth is truth.

Just find solace that your tax dollars are going to a good cause.
Welfare, food stamp, medical care, housing, and paying for ethnic girls to
squirt out babies knowing they will get more benefits and not pay one
dime for the kids care.
The most confusing day in "da hood"?
Fathers day.

I NO LONGER PAY TAXES.:p:p:p

I don't have too any longer.
Disabled police officer here.
I paid into my pension, tax payers did not.
I get a very modest disability from the Ohio Police and Fire pension
board. My money, not yours.
I also get a modest bit of social security that I paid into.
$5,000 thousand a month tax free.
It ain't a lot but better than many.
 
And another pet peeve.

When I was a police officer I watched brand new homes being built
for the "disadvantaged" of our society.
FREE, new homes with an attached garage to park the Cadillac in.

FREE utilities.
Free food.
Free college if they would just attend. Most did not.
Much better homes than I could even think of owning.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
O.T.O.H. I too went to college basically for free.

The Ohio disability people sent me to school on them.
I got a degree in engineering. (after 9 months of rehab)
I got a job at General Motors as a supervisor.
They paid for my second degree.

Love it!

8 years ago G.M. FIRED 50% of us supervisors to save money.
That hurt.
So who replaced us? The union members.
 
8 years ago G.M. FIRED 50% of us supervisors to save money.
That hurt.
So who replaced us? The union members.

Any surprise? I refuse to do anything with Government Motors. I wasn't fond of them before and after the gov't takeover I'll NEVER own a GM if you paid me. In fact I make it a point to mention "gov't motors" whenever a friend drives me in one explaining why I say that, and I offer to drive my (pick one of 4 brands) vehicle. I say just wait, GM will go defunct again sooner than later. The union will destroy what they have been given, THEN the union members will cry when their pensions collapse. But of course it will be my fault for some reason.

And I agree, "giving" to the unwilling to work is waste. I truly think there is a massive LACK of real hunger across this country. A LACK of consequences of failure. Hunger creates motivation. Motivation creates success. I see these "Feed the Hungry" drives all the time, I'd be happy to give money to NOT give food to the lazy in this country.
 
Any surprise? I refuse to do anything with Government Motors. I wasn't fond of them before and after the gov't takeover I'll NEVER own a GM if you paid me. In fact I make it a point to mention "gov't motors" whenever a friend drives me in one explaining why I say that, and I offer to drive my (pick one of 4 brands) vehicle. I say just wait, GM will go defunct again sooner than later. The union will destroy what they have been given, THEN the union members will cry when their pensions collapse. But of course it will be my fault for some reason.

And I agree, "giving" to the unwilling to work is waste. I truly think there is a massive LACK of real hunger across this country. A LACK of consequences of failure. Hunger creates motivation. Motivation creates success. I see these "Feed the Hungry" drives all the time, I'd be happy to give money to NOT give food to the lazy in this country.
An empty belly is the best incentive there is to work. Cut off all welfare and just watch how many of the welfare bums get jobs. And if they choose to starve rather than work, so what, it would be their choice. I feel no obligation what ever to help the "needy".
 
AD,

Uh, well? Can't find a way to put your thoughts into words?

And Doc, it's not good to hold things back. We (I) can't imagine what you mean about GM? Come on, tell us how you REALLY feel about gov't motors?

For anyone who didn't look closely at the GM 'bailout' disaster, let me share just a few stories.
1. Stockholders lost everything, millions of GM stockholders lost every penny they had in stock. Instead GM was 'given' to the union. Anyone think the union used the 'gift' to bolster pension funds?
2. There's a difference between a 'stock' and a 'bond'. A stock is 100% at risk, but a bond is usually leveraged against something. An example, the Indiana Teacher's Pension fund had a $100-300 million bond against a transmission factory. The idea is that if GM folded, the pension would own the property and the transmission 'business' in it (reduced risk). OK, GM effectively folded. BUT, our 'govt' decided in their greater wisdom that the bond was void and the pension got NOTHING for their $100s of millions. Pension sued, they had a valid bond and the contract was broken. And some idiot judge ruled AGAINST the pension saying that their measly money wasn't more important than the big deal. So apparently laws are more important for some than others? I suppose retired Indiana Teachers wouldn't agree...
3. But the unions ALWAYS protect the workers! OK, an example. Union-owned GM wanted to sell off some factory, problem was that the union contract said that all new workers (not even high school diploma req'd) start at $27/hr. Nobody would buy an upside-down business like that. So, the union changed their own agreement for new workers to start at $15/hr. Screw the workers, but they now had a business they were able to sell. Union wins, workers bend over (not that I agree that new hires deserve $55k/hr).

Those are just a few examples, I'm sure the doc can tell us many more, maybe even some personal experiences!
 
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I refuse to drive imports but I will buy American but NOT G.M.
Even though I still get the G.M. employee discount when I tell the Ford
people I have to go with G.M. they give me the G.M. discount to keep
me with Ford.
I'm o.k. with that.
Honda and Toyota are American made........................but!
The profits go to Japan.
Just my American loyalty f.w.i.w.

I have a friend that works in management for Honda.
Guess what?
They are NON union but pay within a dollar of U.A.W. wages.
That ain't all.
FREE lunch in the cafeteria!
Guess what?
FREE CAR for 1 year! Every year!
Guess what?
Absenteeism is almost unheard of.
Why?
The other employees will ask you be removed from employment.
They work in teams and depend upon one another.
Very efficient.
The U.A.W. has tried several times to unionize Honda and got kicked out.
Last I knew started wage for union hourly at G.M. was 28 bucks an hour.
When I left I made 36 bucks an hour and that was decades ago.
I was management.
20 + years ago I worked one week of shutdown and made 7 grand.
ONE WEEK!

I knew hourly workers with 20+ years that were MILLIONAIRES.
They invested, bought property , started businesses, and many SLEPT
at G.M. and only stayed for the medical benefits.
Union employee. Won't work, and can't be fired.
I got layed off as management and they brought in untrained new
managers at $14 bucks an hour.
The Union ate 'em alive.
I saw whole engines being stolen.
Put them on notice, took 'em to labor where I was severely
eaten
by the freakin' union and management did NOTHING.
Well I deserve it ya know.
I was a white man with ethics and they were black without any.
I STILL believe upper management was flat out paid off to
turn a blind eye.
One could buy anything in that plant.
Sex?
No problem.
Drugs?
Easy.
Stolen goods.
At a discount.
Yet management got anything checked by security upon exiting for the
day.
Security was part and parcel of corruption.
Ask me about the Chrysler shooting in Twinsburg Oh. decades ago.
The shooter almost killed me!
1970 maybe?
 
AD,
And Doc, it's not good to hold things back. We (I) can't imagine what you mean about GM? Come on, tell us how you REALLY feel about gov't motors?
Off the top of my head (and most of these are going way way back):

Automatic seat belts
Speedometer alarms when you exceed 55 mph
Unlined aluminum block engines
Using lightweight aluminum bodies and small underpowered engines to meet fuel efficiency standards instead of making engines more efficient
Diesel engines built on gasoline engine blocks (my father had one...the crankshaft snapped in two)
Planned obsolescence
Boxy cars that all looked alike
THE CHEVROLET VEGA
The killing of Pontiac and Oldsmobile
And it just goes on and on and on and on and on

I guess what ticked me off the most was when GM decided to be the nanny-car company.
I've always gottem the impression that it was being run by a bunch of yuppies that were still wet behind the ears.
 
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Doesn't matter be it ford, gm and dodge, none of them are completely American, most of the parts are made out of the Country. Being union doesn't mean squat, the way I see it American hands mean American, being union doesn't make it American.


Yeah I agree with that.
When I worked at G.M. we used parts made by Ford, clearly marked
fo mo co.
Parts even came in from South Africa.
Wiring harness are all made in Mexico.
Delco plants in Mexico.
It took months to get wiring harnesses that worked right from Mexico.
Many Delco plants in the U.S. moved or shut down citing wages and
benefits were too much to pay U.A.W. workers.
The U.A.W. cut it's own throat.
 
I have very little faith in the far future of the American economy.

We are spending more than is coming in.

In history, all fiat currencies have collapsed.

I believe that our debt will spiral, and become unsustainable.

The only answer--as far as I can see, and perhaps I'm wrong--is to become as self-reliant as possible. I have tried to educate myself on how to obtain food, clothing, etc. under austere conditions...and I work in the medical field which, hopefully, will give me a barterable skill post SHTF.

Also, I have stored extra trade goods to barter for things that I will need.
 
Jeager,

I think he means medical care items. Each of us, given our skills, should have a significant supply of materials/tools to apply his trade. A carpenter should have a full set of tools. A marksman needs his weapons & ammo. A doctor should have a fully stocked 'bag' with tools, medicines, bandages, etc.
 
That reminds me that I need to stock up on basic first aid items.
Antiseptics, bandages, etc.
Even a minor scrape or cut could be devastating in a post shtf.
Guns and ammo are good things to have on hand but first aid
supplies are also invaluable.
 
I have very little faith in the far future of the American economy.

We are spending more than is coming in.

In history, all fiat currencies have collapsed.

I believe that our debt will spiral, and become unsustainable.

The only answer--as far as I can see, and perhaps I'm wrong--is to become as self-reliant as possible. I have tried to educate myself on how to obtain food, clothing, etc. under austere conditions...and I work in the medical field which, hopefully, will give me a barterable skill post SHTF.

Also, I have stored extra trade goods to barter for things that I will need.

That's pretty much my thinking too Kevin!

Man hasn't done a very good job on solving mans problems except make em worse. I'll base my ideologue on history not the promises of the future thus I'll trust my instincts over mans promises!
 
That's pretty much my thinking too Kevin!

Man hasn't done a very good job on solving mans problems except make em worse. I'll base my ideologue on history not the promises of the future thus I'll trust my instincts over mans promises!

Thank you for replying to my post.

When the economy in Zimbabwe collapsed, a beer in a neighborhood restaurant cost six trillion Zimbabwe dollars.

I'm not exaggerating.

The Zimbabwe ten trillion dollar notehas become a valuable collectors' item, and a lot of preppers keep them as a reminder of what might happen in the future here in America.
 
If anyone wants to send me a Christmas present, I've been wanting some $100 trillion zimbabwe bills. Last I heard, they were worth almost a dime. The bill wasn't worth the ink to print all the zeros.

Kevin, be careful what you store in terms of usable life. "Stored" batteries have a very poor shelf life. Liquor has minimal value unless trading, and is that the people you want to do business with later? It can get you killed.

I heard a really good talk about post SHTF bartering. I'll have to start a thread on it.

I know plenty of people who have a year's food for a whole bunch of people in storage. I think that's overkill, freeze dried food is very expensive per meal, and isn't the best flavor. Keep in mind I'm in Texas, and you can grow here year-round. But I've got a few months food stashed (for a bunch of people, 1000 lbs+?), but I'm planning plenty of planting. Fresh veggies taste a whole lot better, and we can decide how much we want to plant. The ground is ready, the animals are ready. The fertilizer is ready.
 
As for trade Items, permenant or long term storage items are the best. Not only can you stock pile these items, they will trade at a high value. Rechargable batteries last 10+ years and with a few solor chargers, your set. Water and water filtration. Salt, suger, distilled vinigar, baking soda, raw honey, extra virgin coconut oil, spices, corn starch, white rice, beans, pemmican, soy sauce, bourbon, 93% isopropyle alcohol, iodine, activated charcoal powder, real vanilla exstract, toothpaste, floss, powdered chlorine (pool shock), tylonol, antibiotic cream, asperin, medical bandages, freeze dried and canned foods. There are dozens more similier items.

I have several years supply of all these items. I buy more as I use them.
 
"Stored" batteries have a very poor shelf life.

Learned this the hard way :rolleyes:
I now keep my stored batteries on float chargers. Be careful, a lot of "smart chargers" and battery maintainers don't work as advertised. I was fooled by one that said the battery was at 100% when it had actually run down half way.

AGM batteries store a lot better than other types. Much less self-discharge. I had an AGM battery I took off the float charger and put in my pickup as a standby when I was having battery problems in the pickup. When I put it back on the float charger, it was at 12.9 volts.
 
Dry cell batteries, like for small electronics, radio, calculator, etc.,
have a ten year shelf life.
Read the package before you buy.
I have some in original package I bought a few years ago good 'till
2022.
 
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