transportation

[Gazrok]

Yep, or of course....loot. I plan to stock as much of certain things as I can afford to do, but identifying loot targets isn't a bad idea either, if everything has gone to hell. However, you have to do some risk assessment too.

Biggest looting targets:
FOOD - Grocery stores, discount stores, distribution centers, schools, hotels, restaurants, etc.
MEDICINE - Hospitals, clinics, Dr. offices, drug stores
WEAPONS - Discount stores, gun shops, sporting goods stores
CATCH-ALL - Discount stores, drug stores, convenience stores
GAS - Gas stations (though most won't realize how to get to it without power, or how it is stored, and requires mixing for most vehicles).

So, criteria for me has to include:
1. Has something we need or will need
2. Is relatively remote (meaning less competition), but close enough to be worth the expense in resources (fuel, etc.)
3. Isn't defended or being attacked (we see that, we go on to another target, not worth the risk)

So, you pick the CVS on the outskirts of town vs. one in the city. You pick a lone gas station off the Interstate, not one in town, etc.

You also don't want to do it while there is still law and order. Things have to be obviously going south. However, you also have to hit it before others get the same idea. My priority would be Medical first. Gas I can likely wait on. (I could even get it out of now useless power transformers if I have to, wonder how many folks will know that?).

 

[DBarry1973]

That's what's great about a diesel engine. The original design was ment to run on pent oil. I tired everything from fry grease to hydraulic fluid in an old mechanical Cummins and it ran great on everything.

 

[jimLE]

5 years of unregulated hunting, who's to say there'd be anything left. It does take a lot of time and there's no guarantee. I'm for hunting as a survival means but there are a lot of factors that have to be taken into consideration. domesticated meat is more efficient.

yeah domesticated meats is a great route to take,and to start out with..but its nice to put other meats on the table time 2 time.be it deer,rabbit,elk or some other meat..

 

[jimLE]

would say the first spike in fatalities could come as early as the first 2-4 weeks,no food to towns,most town people don't know anything abt hunting,I always compare my co-workers to me,right now have food for abt 4-5 months,they have mostly for 2-4 days food in fridge,with the mentality that when I need food,I just go and buy it, after 5 yrs,well no overpopulation

there's lots of folks that dont even know how to cook..so their one group of ppl that'll be disparate right off...

 

[jontte]

that's one thing I have never understod,can't cook?my dad and grandma thought me to cook,can't sew,well my grandma thaught that to me aswell,but what can you expect when you have your nose buried in the screen all day

 

[jimLE]

i started learning on how to cook at a early age..master chef im not by all means..but i can cook thoe.as for sewing goes.expert im not at that as well,but can sew well enough to get by,when it comes to what i do sew..

 

[jontte]

I learnt the basics in school for sewing and latermy grandma told me;boy you better learn to do these things 'cause you never know what your wife can do or can't

 

[Warriorhealer22]

Never discount what an individual can do when it needs to be done! Murphy is an equal opportunist.

 

[James Martin]

just my way of thinking .....after the shtf for 5yrs i think i should already be in our BOL and have the garden set in so why would i need
to a bug ot vehicle...if i do need to go somewhere i can walk there...just my 2 cents thanks james

 

[jimLE]

well james.i don't know the distance from where you're living now to your bol..but wouldn't it be faster and safer to drive that distance?especially if you have a vehicle that can go cross country if needed?

 

[alabaster]

I want to whip around on motorcycles, dirtbikes, and ATVs, even though I know these aren't very safe & secure. With that being said, we have some varied options, but mostly, we are planning to see what's feasible at that time. We may not be able to figure it all out, but if we can see that access to gas will be a long term issue, we want to use bikes, walking, or other people-powered vehicles. There are times we may need the truck, or may need to travel the water... I need to evaluate water travel, for sure.

 

[Brent S]

just my way of thinking .....after the shtf for 5yrs i think i should already be in our BOL and have the garden set in so why would i need
to a bug ot vehicle...if i do need to go somewhere i can walk there...just my 2 cents thanks james

I agree, once your there if it is really shtf, no more gas and too risky to go out in a vehicle anyways.

 

[Gazrok]

Dirt bikes are great for many reasons, but for SHTF, you'd want to look at quiet ones, and they do exist. Dirt bikes can go where there aren't roads, and get a LOT of mileage off the gas. As far as motored options go, likely the best SHTF option around. As mentioned though, eventually, gas is going to run out. A diesel motorcycle (nearly impossible to find, most build them) would be prime though, as you could run biodiesel. Only one in production, a Kawasaki KLR650. I think the Marines bought some.

 

[jontte]

perhaps I shoud do what everybody else in my family have done, buy a motorbike of some sort,I seem to be the only one who never had one, or I by an old russian jeep

 

[Warriorhealer22]

Dirt bikes are great for many reasons, but for SHTF, you'd want to look at quiet ones, and they do exist. Dirt bikes can go where there aren't roads, and get a LOT of mileage off the gas. As far as motored options go, likely the best SHTF option around. As mentioned though, eventually, gas is going to run out. A diesel motorcycle (nearly impossible to find, most build them) would be prime though, as you could run biodiesel. Only one in production, a Kawasaki KLR650. I think the Marines bought some.

Speaking of dirt bikes, anyone here have experience with the Rokon? They look useful

 

[QuietH3art]

Speaking of dirt bikes, anyone here have experience with the Rokon? They look useful

I looked them up on the web. Nice-looking, high priced for a dirt bike, but looks like you get what you pay for. It's a shame these aren't street-legal. Looks like something even I could handle.

 

[Brent S]

Dirt bikes are great for many reasons, but for SHTF, you'd want to look at quiet ones, and they do exist. Dirt bikes can go where there aren't roads, and get a LOT of mileage off the gas. As far as motored options go, likely the best SHTF option around. As mentioned though, eventually, gas is going to run out. A diesel motorcycle (nearly impossible to find, most build them) would be prime though, as you could run biodiesel. Only one in production, a Kawasaki KLR650. I think the Marines bought some.

I'd like to look into that KLR, I always wondered if anyone tried a diesel on a bike. I think mountain bikes are going to be pretty desirable as there quiet and the human body gets great gas mileage!

 

[Gazrok]

Kawasaki makes it. Not sure if it is for public or not.

 

[Brent S]

Kawasaki makes it. Not sure if it is for public or not.

I just read about it, thanks for the interesting lead. It dosent look like it's ready for general sale for a while yet, and will be 30% more than it's gasoline cousin. The plus is double the mileage, at 110 mpg. I'd love to see one in person. I grew up next to Daytona and was at bike week every year so I've seen a lot of innovations, but that's a new one for me.

 

[DrHenley]

From Wikipedia:

• Hayes Diversified Technologies M1030M1
  
  
  M1030M1 - Diesel Military Motorcycle
  After several years engine development at Cranfield University,[1][2] the HDT M1030M1 has entered service. It is produced by Hayes Diversified Technologies (HDT),[3] and it based around a modified Kawasaki KLR650. Top speed is approximately 90 mph (145 km/h) and fuel consumption is advertised to be 96 mpg-US (2.5 L/100 km; 115 mpg-imp) at 55 mph (89 km/h). M1030M1s have successfully taken part at the British National Rally and the Bonneville Speed Trials.
  
  The U.S. Marine Corps bought 440 of the M1030M1 model, under the name M1030M1 JP8/Diesel. The M1030M1E AVTUR/Diesel Military motorcycle is sold to British and European NATO countries. A version made for the civilian market, the D650A1 "Bulldog" was originally slated for release in March 2006, but due to increased military demand for the M1030M1, production of the civilian Bulldog has been delayed indefinitely.
  
  In the Summer of 2010 at Eurosatory, a French defence contractor exhibition, HDT presented the HDT 1030M2 a major upgrade of their present HDT1030M1. The 1030M2 chief change is an upgraded 670cc engine which has a multifueled capability and produced 20% more power, and through a patented technology called MAC-C1 enables the engine to use not only standard automobile gasoline and truck diesel fuel, but five major jet fueltypes; and even the heavier vegetable oil based biodiesel. As of September 2010 no orders have been placed.[4]
  
  Faired and unfaired Hayes Diesel motorcycles won second and fourth place at the 2011 Mid-Ohio Craig Vetter Fuel Economy Challenge.[5]

 

[DrHenley]

The HDT 1030M2 sounds like it's using technology developed by Texaco decades ago. The TCCS (Texaco Controlled Combustion System) was able to run on anything from alcohol to motor oil. The Army was interested in it initially, but dropped interest for some unknown reason.

It used a swirling stratified charge and a diesel type injection system. All the major car companies turned up their nose at it when approached by Texaco.

Why would an oil company develop a more efficient engine you ask...

Because one of the major costs of refining gasoline is raising the octane rating. Gasoline starts off at about 70 octane, and then the octane is raised, either by expensive cracking, or addition of additives. But what if a car could run on 70 octane gas? Gasoline production would be much cheaper and the oil company could make MORE PROFIT!

Here is some more info:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/All-Energy/conversations/topics/12611

 

[Maverick]

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

 

[jontte]

aaaaaaaaaargh, you guys make me wanna have a real bike....

 

[Gazrok]

I miss my motorcycle. For about 5 years, was my sole means of transportation. Sure, it sucked when it rained, but I loved it at the pump. My wife would never go for me getting one though, hehe.

Can't say I blame her. FL drivers are insane. (and often elderly, so not the sharpest of reflexes). Mostly though, they simply drive up each others' rears, instead of maintaining distance.

 

[jontte]

get one with the side-car??
you can drive your missus around in style

 

[Maverick]

I agree 5yrs in a post SHTF is very risky, anything on the road is a target, if one had no choice but to travel for a good distance then by railroad tracks may be a better option and there is many options to setup make shift vehicles that utilize the tracks though in my location it would be river by night, lets not forget about the gasifier's. Established gangs/marauders will have roving squads and lookouts on will traveled roads and paths more likely already having spotters on the high ground. 5yrs in, lets just hope we are established and a good garden with chickens goats and rabbits because 5yrs in meat is going to be scarce.

 

[Nightsider]

In the process of getting some things for this. Depending on what happens it will either be in the back of the truck or will be riding it with my wife driving the truck. Its loud now but looking around for some quiter pipes. Gets about 44 mpg city and 57 mpg freeway or about 150-200 miles per tank. Lot more nimble and would be able to scout ahead for problems. Being a 1200 I would have plenty of power to get out of almost situation.

 

[lonewolf]

5 years into any SHTF event and the population will be decimated, especially urban populations. 5 years after I would have thought was very much after the dust has settled and most violence has dissipated, all the people that were a problem have been dealt with and are either dead or been assimilated into a community or village set up. as for transport all the fuel will be long gone, I for one will be using a donkey or a pony(plenty around here) to pull a small cart, for other things I may well be using a bicycle.

 

[Maverick]

5 years into any SHTF event and the population will be decimated, especially urban populations. 5 years after I would have thought was very much after the dust has settled and most violence has dissipated, all the people that were a problem have been dealt with and are either dead or been assimilated into a community or village set up. as for transport all the fuel will be long gone, I for one will be using a donkey or a pony(plenty around here) to pull a small cart, for other things I may well be using a bicycle.

If federal authority hasn't reasserted itself and the population still in WROL situation, I believe gangs will exist, expanded, better organized and harden. If the feds have reasserted itself after a extended major event and ROL re-established I don't see them upholding laws as we know today. If you want to see our future in a SHTF look no further then Africa, Middle East, South American cartel all whom has been at it longer then 5yrs, civilized people will break down and lose it's moral foundation, destitute people have nothing to lose.

 

[lonewolf]

5 years is a long time scale in post SHTF terms, most stocks of food will have been long used up especially in the UK-I don't see anybody here being able to stock 5 years worth of food-1 or 2 at the most, I really don't see gangs being a huge problem in the UK and those that exist will probably kill each other off just for crossing each others "turf". I think after 5 years in the UK we will see a huge reduction in the population possibly at least by 50% could even be 90%. unless we can actually get out and grow our own food this conversation will be academic as everyone will be dead if we cant.