why don't you send a PM to BrentS, he's building one, you'll get a lot of info from him I think...about the ceiling with that much soil on top I would go for an arch like construction...do it right and it will hold and hold....
Underground shelters
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Something similar to this? build it off-set from the house changing the access from within the house
here's a link to some root cellars..there's one where someone used a school bus.i strongly suggest not using one if you don't go about it in the same way as they did..on account they will cave in when to much soil is on top of them..
https://www.google.com/search?q=blu...Fsurvival-blog%2Fbuild-root-cellar%2F;350;262
I agree the arch is a lot stronger than a flat roof. You can still do a flat roof, but some posts in the center of the spans are a good idea if you want a large room that is deep. A 6" thick rebar reinforced roof is really strong, but once you span over 10 ' I would put some sort of support column if going over four feet deep. I am not an engineer, and think paying one 125.00 to review your plans would be wise. I really don't think the structural concern is a problem, waterproofing may be a harder issue to solve, depending on where you are. I'm lucky that I had a hill to dig into, vs a deep hole as it makes it a lot easier for keeping it dry.
Thanks! I have not yet bought my land, and the possibility of buying land with steep enough hills is not too remote. I have also considered arched ceiling...I have seen corrugated steel that is used in drainage tunnels and even for small transportation tunnels...with a properly planned foundation/drainage system, cinder block walls and rebar reinforcement it looks like it would not be too difficult. What would make any kind of arch ceiling a really sweet deal is the ability to get preshaped rebar for it...rebar, corrugated steel with a couple of layers of reinforced concrete put over it.
Check here: http://www.atlassurvivalshelters.com/
Really nice! Just wish I had the 30 thousand lying around! The galvanized corrugated pipe is great stuff, but it's awfully expensive and difficult to move due to size and weight. I wish I had some of it though!
Rebar is pretty easy to bend yourself, a 20' stick is really flexible until it's got hardened concrete all around it.
I like these underground shelters. They are much stronger than shipping containers.
http://www.atlassurvivalshelters.com/
http://www.atlassurvivalshelters.com/
besides the cost..those are simply out right to small for me.to closed in.and yes i be claustrophobic when it comes to situations like that
shipping containers are fine as long as you put a good protective coating on the outside before covering to prevent rust/corrosion. also make sure as with anything you bury to put a good base down to prevent settling ! gravel, river sand ,manufactured sand etc. any of these are great, be aware of your surroundings stay clear of any area that is a water risk not just flood area but run off aswell ! just because your on high ground doesnt mean it never sees water during heavy rains! i also reccomend painting the inside of the containers before doing any interior construction also to prevent interior rust/corrosion. if you wanna save room by not putting up interior walls you can run your water lines /electrical conduit directly on the interior walls copper for the water lines and conduit for your electric , it can look really good if done rite and save alot of room ! anyway you didnt ask how to build an underground shelter so ill shut up now!
I have caves and lava tubes all around me that run several hundred yards plus, some with 80' vertical drop to get at the tubes with multiple exits and good ventilation so, as far as going underground I'm in heaven here and its free.
How stable is the volcanic rock? I'm lucky I didn't grow up there, I would have been lost when exploring as a boy! Are you near mt St. Helens?
There's a lot of info on the site about shipping containers. They are not strong enough to withstand the forces from being buried. The corners are very strong, but the top and sides will collapse when buried. Lots of people have throw away several thousands of dollars burying them without beefing them up structurally. I was ready to buy one, but after doing research on them I decided to go with rebar reinforced concrete. It's stronger, and so far I only have about one thousand dollars in it in material, (we won't mention the labor). I was looking at 3500 for a shipping container, plus a crane to set it in the hole. I've got a post here showing the progress of the shelter I'm making. I have four days off right now and it's killing me that I'm not out there working on it, but it's just too damned cold! I've moved to indoor projects for a bit.
I'm between St. Helens and Adams to the south, the caves and tubes are pretty stable.
I hope anyone considering wasting several thousands of dollars does a little research first! Great example!
Yeah thats one messed up situation...lol
I saw one report about some guy digging his own "bunker" . Got the hole dug and it was going to be a while before getting the concrete poured . His kids playing in the dug out were crushed and killed by the sides caving in on them . Bad story I only tell it to make people think so they dont do the same thing . I was shown as a kid not to get in a basment or ant kind of dig before it was finished . Stuff like this can happen in the prepping comunity as we like to do stuff ourself so its better to learn beforehand than the hard way .
Really good point! I'm in Ga. where the clay is kind of like concrete, so a cave in wasnt too likely. I was still pretty careful. In most soils you need to step the walls out to make it safer while youre working. Between this site, and the web in general, you can learn how to do just about anything now days. Its always wise to learn as much as you can about any new projects before starting. I've learned lots of things the hard way in life, but thats not the best education plan.
So, so much to consider in an underground shelter....
1.) Bringing in (and filtering) air. Getting out CO2.
2.) Waste Disposal (both human and just trash)
3.) Water storage
4.) Food storage
5.) If cooking or heating, how to vent smoke...(ironically, microwave may be best here)
6.) Medical supplies
7.) Blast door (and opening in, in case way is blocked by debris)
8.) Escape route (one way opening)
9.) Hiding the outside entry/exits
10.) Radiation shielding (metal, soil, concrete, etc.)
11.) Decontamination area
12.) Communications
13.) Above ground radiation detectors
14.) Room for people
15.) Plan for animals?
16.) Weapons and defenses (if found)
17.) Sanitation in general
18.) Entertainment options
19.) Lights, power options
1.) Bringing in (and filtering) air. Getting out CO2.
2.) Waste Disposal (both human and just trash)
3.) Water storage
4.) Food storage
5.) If cooking or heating, how to vent smoke...(ironically, microwave may be best here)
6.) Medical supplies
7.) Blast door (and opening in, in case way is blocked by debris)
8.) Escape route (one way opening)
9.) Hiding the outside entry/exits
10.) Radiation shielding (metal, soil, concrete, etc.)
11.) Decontamination area
12.) Communications
13.) Above ground radiation detectors
14.) Room for people
15.) Plan for animals?
16.) Weapons and defenses (if found)
17.) Sanitation in general
18.) Entertainment options
19.) Lights, power options
go into a room with no windows or blacked out windows no furniture, no carpet no communications not even a am/fm radio your only in a room with a porta-potti a chair and small table, 1 week (6 days) of food and water, entertainment stuff (coloring book, cards, puzzles, pencil and paper) that only fits in a groceries bag, 1 crank flashlight a sleeping bag, how many can stay in that room for 7 days without seeing the light of day with limited supplies without leaving that room, how many can do it, if you cant answer that then a underground shelter may not be a option for you!
I'm not claustrophobic but that really dosen't paint a very good picture! I think a bunker/storm shelter is a great option, but for short term only. My project is only 8'x10', outside dimensions, so by the time I line it with 16" shelving there wont be much room left over. It will be good enough to hide in a passing storm, but I really don't plan to spend any nights in it.
I think the most important thing to consider first is what is the primary function going to be. If your'e worried about nuclear war, you better make a pretty large shelter. If youre like me, and just want a place to store wine and canned food, but double as a storm shelter, then it can be alot more basic.
I have been researching and planning one of these projects for about 4 yrs now.
I have come up with a solution to all of these issues with burying shipping containers except one. The only one I'm not sure about is water seepages.
I have devised a plan using a heavy duty sump pump and a backup manual pump. I planned also to include field drainage. But, I'm just not 100% on the being able to keep all the water out, or get rid of it when it does get in.
Our plan is not to be in the shelter full time but to use it for storage and if it got so bad that above ground was too hostile. The underground would be a safe place to sleep and rest when your not having to tend to above ground duties.
Most of the pictures and stories about shipping containers that I have seen and heard about seem to be from folks who did not take the time to prepare their project well enough. I am the type of person that will plan a project for an extended period before I start it. Making sure I have every detail worked out without any question that it will work.
The key to keeping the walls and ceiling from caving in is to reinforce the interior with 4x6 beams, or not to put any soil against the container at all. Which is the preferred method. Think about how the newer bridge embankments are build. The concept is fairly simple with the right equipment.
I have come up with a solution to all of these issues with burying shipping containers except one. The only one I'm not sure about is water seepages.
I have devised a plan using a heavy duty sump pump and a backup manual pump. I planned also to include field drainage. But, I'm just not 100% on the being able to keep all the water out, or get rid of it when it does get in.
Our plan is not to be in the shelter full time but to use it for storage and if it got so bad that above ground was too hostile. The underground would be a safe place to sleep and rest when your not having to tend to above ground duties.
Most of the pictures and stories about shipping containers that I have seen and heard about seem to be from folks who did not take the time to prepare their project well enough. I am the type of person that will plan a project for an extended period before I start it. Making sure I have every detail worked out without any question that it will work.
The key to keeping the walls and ceiling from caving in is to reinforce the interior with 4x6 beams, or not to put any soil against the container at all. Which is the preferred method. Think about how the newer bridge embankments are build. The concept is fairly simple with the right equipment.
But why go there? (shipping containers). There is other material that can be used that is cheaper and more secure, for underground shelters. For above ground, shipping containers are fine, but bury them, and they cause more problems than they solve.
My above list assumes a nuclear/biological threat bunker.
My above list assumes a nuclear/biological threat bunker.
As some added thoughts....
1.) Way to keep time - make sure you have a way to keep track of the time, days, etc. in the bunker, so you know when to leave!
2.) Pets - consider them in the planning if you can. Or, even food animals (for example, I'd love to take my chickens and rabbits into a bunker, so after, I have some protein available). Also would rather save cats and dogs too. Unfortunately, see no practical solution for horses.
3) Bed Space - remember, you really only need beds for about a third of the people staying in the bunker. You can sleep in 3, 8hr shifts each day, and save a lot of room this way. (and bunk beds are a great way to save even further on this space).
1.) Way to keep time - make sure you have a way to keep track of the time, days, etc. in the bunker, so you know when to leave!
2.) Pets - consider them in the planning if you can. Or, even food animals (for example, I'd love to take my chickens and rabbits into a bunker, so after, I have some protein available). Also would rather save cats and dogs too. Unfortunately, see no practical solution for horses.
3) Bed Space - remember, you really only need beds for about a third of the people staying in the bunker. You can sleep in 3, 8hr shifts each day, and save a lot of room this way. (and bunk beds are a great way to save even further on this space).
pluss,2 0r 3 ppl can share a bunk if the ppl are short enough and the bunks are large enough..
I agree, the container is an awfully expensive thing to bury, considering all the extra work/prep that needs to be done.
