Understanding Narcissism and Narcissists

[Pearl]

This is so weird, I was just thinking of this thread Weedy! I've mentioned that this has helped me so much understand my mother in law! She being the victim, wanting perfection from others so she doesn't look bad, using her children as scapegoats, .....! NOT letting her have DETAILS of our life has been a BIG game changer! We are fortunate NOT to live near her! Hubby's brother is not so lucky! Dropping in at inconvenient times, making him and his wife feel embarrassed in front of her husband for things at the house not being up to her standards during the pop ins! Life is nicer without her being "in" our life!!! Thank you for the info Weedy, you have no idea how much it helps!!

 

[Weedygarden]

This is so weird, I was just thinking of this thread Weedy! I've mentioned that this has helped me so much understand my mother in law! She being the victim, wanting perfection from others so she doesn't look bad, using her children as scapegoats, .....! NOT letting her have DETAILS of our life has been a BIG game changer! We are fortunate NOT to live near her! Hubby's brother is not so lucky! Dropping in at inconvenient times, making him and his wife feel embarrassed in front of her husband for things at the house not being up to her standards during the pop ins! Life is nicer without her being "in" our life!!! Thank you for the info Weedy, you have no idea how much it helps!!

For me, once I had the realization of narcissism and understood that that was a bigger problem in my family than alcoholism, I could research, study and learn about it. This stuff, these stories and articles keep popping up for me online. They have helped me, but I am still not happy when I see people who try to manipulate me and don't understand that I have strong boundaries about certain things. Ultimately, I don't know that there is ever complete healing from being on the receiving end of things as a child or even as an adult in any relationship.

 

[Pearl]

We could never understand the lying, covering things up, seeming nice to others but actually being mean! My mother in law has treated people (family) so badly, yet will go to church and act like a totally different person! When I first joined HCL and read your thread it was like, ohhhh, now it makes sense! With your info and our own research it truly brings life into perspective. My husband can finally realize he and the rest of his family are not bad people, it is her! We recently found out from a family friend that most people in the community were/are on to her lying and "justifying" things!

 

[Weedygarden]

We could never understand the lying, covering things up, seeming nice to others but actually being mean! My mother in law has treated people (family) so badly, yet will go to church and act like a totally different person! When I first joined HCL and read your thread it was like, ohhhh, now it makes sense! With your info and our own research it truly brings life into perspective. My husband can finally realize he and the rest of his family are not bad people, it is her! We recently found out from a family friend that most people in the community were/are on to her lying and "justifying" things!

Who is her Golden Child? And who is her scape goat? I believe they all have them.

 

[Amish Heart]

I should of been heads upped about mom going into her reign of terror a few days ago when my sister complained about her mean phone calls. It took her two days to get around to me. So right now, I'm the scapegoat. But I delivered some money in a wallet to her and told her to have a nice day. Funny, when I was leaving, one of the other lady residents there stopped me and said that my mom was so nice and she's so happy she moved there. I bit my tongue. Ha Ha.
So she called me last night and asked if she missed a call from me.
I told her no. Have a good evening. Bye.
I need a break till Easter. I am sometimes the Golden Child till someone compliments me to my mom. Then I'm the scapegoat. No one can deserve a compliment except mom.

 

[DrJenner]

I was just talking about narcissism with my therapist today.
Came to the realization that my father is a huge narcissist, which explains why I was attracted to my ex husband, who is an even worse narcissist.
I've been reading the book, adult children of emotionally immature parents, and it has been very helpful

 

[Pearl]

Who is her Golden Child? And who is her scape goat? I believe they all have them.

The oldest, her daughter is the golden child. Both boys are scapegoats!

 

[Weedygarden]

 

[Wyatt]

The thing about narcissists is that it is almost impossible for them to change. They love one person and that is themselves. They are incapable of loving others. They are very capable of cruelty to others.

I disagree, the narcissist, in my opinion, does not love themselves, that is the problem. Their heart is a bucket with a huge hole that they attempt to fill with ego and the pieces of the hearts of other's who's hearts they have crushed out of jealousy of their happiness or their perceived happiness.

They are most miserable and cannot rest until everyone around them is as, or more miserable than they are.

Spreading misery is their greatest joy outside of being control freaks.

It is my belief that there are a lot of individuals who are a cross between sociopaths and narcissists.

What Are The Traits Of A Sociopath?

What are considered sociopathic traits or sociopathic traits? Here are some of the potential signs and traits of a person with antisocial personality disorder:

• A lack of empathy for others
• Little to no genuine remorse
• The manipulation of other people
• Lying and deceit
• A sense of superiority over others
• Little to no regard for right or wrong
• The belief that rules do not apply to them
• Getting into legal trouble or a little regard for the law
• A lack of responsibility or engaging in irresponsible behaviors
• Aggression or hostility
• The exploitation of other people
• Substance use

People with antisocial personality disorder are not monsters, and despite the name of the disorder, it doesn’t mean that someone is antisocial in the way that we typically understand the term. For a person to be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, they must meet the DSM criteria for the disorder.

Link To Article

What is a narcissist?

Someone who’s a true narcissist — in other words, who suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) — differs in ways from just your average self-centered person (who may be obnoxiously narcissistic, but falls short of a clinical diagnosis). The Mayo Clinic defines NPD as “a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.” People with NPD tend to have a distorted self-image and are intensely preoccupied with themselves, which adds to that lack of empathy — they’re just not all that interested in feelings that aren’t their own. Research shows that NPD affects less than 1% of the population, and that 50-75% of those who have it are men.

People with NPD expect to get special treatment.
They exaggerate their own smarts, success, power, and looks.
The lack of empathy leads them to take advantage of people, with no regrets.
Narcissists may be extremely jealous and ultra-sensitive.
Because they tend to be very thin-skinned, they may angrily lash out at any criticism or push-back.
Narcissists also may lash out when they feel like they’re not getting special treatment.
Underneath all of these traits is a deep sense of insecurity.
And — no big surprise, when you consider all these traits — narcissists may find it super-difficult to have healthy relationships, and have loads of trouble at work or school.

Link To Article

 

[Amish Heart]

I gray rock my mom a whole lot. It works well, since she will take what I say about personal issues and turn it into something else and then gossip. She loves to talk about her self the most, so this is easy to do.

 

[Weedygarden]

The Narcissist's Prayer

That didn't happen.

And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

And if it was, that's not a big deal.

And if it is, that's not my fault.

And if it was, I didn't mean it.

And if I did, you deserved it.

 

[Weedygarden]

Not a big fan of Dr. Phil, but this popped up today. I have actually wondered if he might be a narcissist!

 

[Amish Heart]

Hmm. I dont listen to Dr Phil. Some of that made sense to me. I prefer Dr Ramani and Les Carter. Those two are good. The abuse and neglect thoughts Dr Phil said is a view shared by many, and I think I believe it's the case with the twins, for sure. I like the breakdown of the types of narcissists. Grandson is grandiose, and so is mom. Granddaughter is the mean kind.

 

[Pearl]

Had to talk with my MIL today! Hubby made the mistake of calling to check on her! She may as well have just come out and told me she hated me and I was wasting her time!! Good night I can't believe anyone's mind can work that way!! I thought about putting this in the rant thread, but it belongs here!! And I should not be feeling bad about myself because of her! This type of person is TOXIC!!

 

[Magus]

I have a philosophy about "grey rock" Drop a tennis ball into a gym sock and proceed to wail on them, and every time they beg for mercy say:
"I can't hear you!"
"Did that hurt?"
"Does this remind you of something?"
"Do you think somebody else might feel like this?"
"I think you actually like this, I know I do!"
"Look at this! you're making my arm tired! this is on you!"
"You have my undivided attention now, do you still want it?"
"If I was sensitive, don't you think I'd stop?"
Please stop when they're unconscious or bad things might happen, like having to dig a hole out back. It's not likely you'll break bones with a tennis ball, but you'll raise welts like they jumped into a bathtub full of hornets!

 

[Amish Heart]

Sorry you have to listen to her, Pearl. But just don't.

 

[FarmOR]

Had to talk with my MIL today! Hubby made the mistake of calling to check on her! She may as well have just come out and told me she hated me and I was wasting her time!! Good night I can't believe anyone's mind can work that way!! I thought about putting this in the rant thread, but it belongs here!! And I should not be feeling bad about myself because of her! This type of person is TOXIC!!

I relate and feel your pain so familiar.

Toxic personality can wear you down. They are relentless. They won't change. They see absolutely no problem with the broken record of lies coming out of their mouth. The truth is sufficient to state once, but the lies must be reinforced and told thousands and thousands of times? It wears down the strongest, level headed and optimistic people -reduces them to the purveyors level?

I've started employing a new trick: I just get up and leave. It's easy to recognize. And I don't fear being thought of rude by such uncaring types? When I get that feeling: here we go again, and start wishing that I was anywhere else, doing anything else other than listening to the nonsensical monotribe: I just get up and depart.

 

[Amish Heart]

Ha I do the same. I've been accused of avoidance, but I don't care. There's no changing a narc, and not necessary for me to hear it.

 

[Pearl]

Thankfully she is 1200 miles away!! And thankfully she ended the conversation quickly! Still, just a few minutes of listening to her is detrimental!!

 

[FarmOR]

The phone can be very unreliable during such "conversation"?

" hello? What did you say? You are breaking up..." "Dial tone..."

 

[Magus]

I do that to telemarketers all the time.
You can also go over to YouTube put on some death metal and steadfastly proclaim:
"What music? I don't have music here, no radio, no... I can't hear anything... then steadily increase the volume, just be sure to always use your normal speaking voice. let them scream themselves hoarse!

 

[Pearl]

I bite my tongue in hopes she will leave Hubby a dollar or two when she dies! I'm pretty sure she will try to take every last dime with her!

 

[Magus]

Fireproofing it is she?

 

[viking]

Thankfully she is 1200 miles away!! And thankfully she ended the conversation quickly! Still, just a few minutes of listening to her is detrimental!!

I tell people that I can put up with working all night but it only takes 5 seconds of negative crap to make me emotionally sick to where I'm physically drained, so I fully understand what you go through, it"s not fun at all.

 

[Backwater Herbalist]

I ran across these posts today, and have really enjoyed reading all the replies. My MIL is a known to her family and others Narcissist. I have had the unfortunate experience of being on the receiving end of her wrath for over 33 years now. She is now in a nursing home for Alzheimer's, and has regressed to the level of a child. Her only way of showing her displeasure now is pinching people, so has to be medicated when she starts that so that staff can work with her. I do feel sorry for her and the situation she is in now-I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

She has a daughter who is the same and worse, very much worse. That daughter filled the scapegoat role as a child. My Husband was the golden child, but is a good man and decent, hard working, and gentle. When he attempted to break away from the family dynamic before we met, after realizing what it was, the positions switched.

I don't know that I agree totally with the idea that Narcissists are made. I've seen two instances in my life where a child was born to good parents, and from birth something was off. Crying too much, not wanting to be held, inability to console or play well with other children in daycare and school. These two sets of parents have tormented themselves wondering if they could have done anything different. And they always will-and will never get an answer. In one instance, the child tried to ruin the family itself after leaving with a boyfriend at 18 and turned to social media to denigrate and humiliate, and cost her father his job, the mother was talked about horribly as a human being and tried to pit her siblings against themselves and the parents, the ultimate hope that the parents would divorce and the family broken up. Thank Goodness they survived it all. I'd like to know if others here have seen something similar. I think there is something to be said about a degree of genetics being involved.

I truly don't know if we are seeing a surge of Narcissists in society, or they have always been here to such a degree. The only thing we found that worked with MIL and SIL was to completely grey-rock as much as possible. It's the only thing that works.

 

[Amish Heart]

Oh, yes, we've LIVED something similar, raising twin grandkids. Last year was hell. Thank God they are out of our lives and 18 yrs old now. I wasn't sure I was going to survive them. And they made a mess out of our family dynamics. I'd be fine if I never saw them again.

 

[viking]

I've thought a lot about why some children can end up doing such wicked things and one of my thoughts is that they are missing the human spirit, that which connects people with God, all I can say is that Satan can certainly mess with people and their families.

 

[montanabill]

The kiddo we raised is now 19 and still a mess and not to be trusted. He was used for ritual satanic abuse before the age of 8 as well as being abandoned multiple times.

I recently had a talk with a guy who adopted a girl at age 6 from peru where he found her living on the street orphaned by her alchoholic mother dieing. He rescued the girl but now is raising her child while she is off partyings and drugging.
His explanation is that narccissium can be caused by a child being in constant terror of not having food water, a place to sleep and always afraid for their safety. They develop into a person who constantly is concerned with their own thing and everyone else is not important or only to be used.

From working in mental health I experienced borderline behavior where something has to be wrong or in conflict at all times....they have to be in that state or they will create it amoung those around them. It doesn't matter if it hurts them as long as others suffer more.

as far as the kid we raised I am trying to come to grips with the fact he will now have to live his own life even if he is self destructive or ends up in jail....

 

[Weedygarden]

The kiddo we raised is now 19 and still a mess and not to be trusted. He was used for ritual satanic abuse before the age of 8 as well as being abandoned multiple times.

I recently had a talk with a guy who adopted a girl at age 6 from peru where he found her living on the street orphaned by her alchoholic mother dieing. He rescued the girl but now is raising her child while she is off partyings and drugging.
His explanation is that narccissium can be caused by a child being in constant terror of not having food water, a place to sleep and always afraid for their safety. They develop into a person who constantly is concerned with their own thing and everyone else is not important or only to be used.

From working in mental health I experienced borderline behavior where something has to be wrong or in conflict at all times....they have to be in that state or they will create it amoung those around them. It doesn't matter if it hurts them as long as others suffer more.

as far as the kid we raised I am trying to come to grips with the fact he will now have to live his own life even if he is self destructive or ends up in jail....

Some children who are adopted are very difficult. I know a couple people who have really suffered at the hands of their adopted children.

 

[Weedygarden]

Just wanted to find something in this thread about someone playing at being a victim. "People are against me. I am the victim in this." (Not!) Narcs can't admit their part.

Playing the victim
Does your mother or father Playing the victim doesn’t pay, but it’s the favored tactic of covert narcissists. This is the person who always needs help. Everything is always going wrong for them, but it’s always the fault of everyone and anyone else. If you try to confront this person, they will become the victim again. Mysterious (and endless) illnesses and personal disaster-after-disaster leave this person pulling the emotional strings of everyone around them.