I think you're right start EMT and keep going.
What are you going to use for serious pain meds...possible surgery?
- Thread starter Uncle Albert
- Start date
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Car.
Thanks, that is educational. Perhaps the last direction we would go because of the fear of side effects, but if it saves the life of a loved one...it's going to be in my bag of tricks.
Here's another fyi that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread.Not for pain relief but needed none the less-antibiotics.Fish Mox Forte is 500mg of lab grade pure amoxicillin used by aquarist for different bacterial and fungus infections,as a salt water reef aquarium owner,i'm pretty familiar with it.Same stuff you get with a script,you can buy at your local pet/fish store,not cheap though.
Thanks for the tip, I'm adding it to my list.
serious surgery is not a concern for myself. Most heavy anesthetics are illegal, you'd need to aquire them after issues from ambulances, medical supply sites, or hospitals. If stuff breaks down and riots occur then most sources would be gone.
I have some over the counter stuff but nothing I would use for pain killing for major surgical pain ex. tylenol plus, buscapan plus, alleve, and antiinflamatories.
Pain killers are way too regulated up here, even if the native reserves have tons floating around.
Pain killers are only absolutely needed if you need to be active and that isnt ideal for post op anyway.
No major surgery would likely be performed under conditions as it would probably endanger me more.
Play safe.
close it up and hope it doesn't get infected. surgery beyond that is probably going to make things worse. especially if they arn't a trained surgeon. especially if it is from a trauma. bottom line don't do anything stupid if society breaks down. There is no reason to need surgery if you act responsibly and are in moderately good health.
I havn't had a single emergency surgery once in my life, and that includes falling off the back of a moving car, getting a metal gate to crack my scalp open causing lots of blood, having my bike flip my chin and knees into concrete at high velocity with resulting blood, having an oak door kicked open into my forehead crushing my skull and slightly deforming it, having my Adam's Apple crushed from a choke hold, having my Adam's a
Apple close-lined (closest to death I've ever been) I could think any greater injury would be lethal. Other high risk situations most involve driving at high speed such as someone being parked at night in the middle of a highway with a concrete barrier in a 110km zone, car accidentally being put into reverse going down a really big curved hill causing a steering wheel lock and electrical short of the cars systems.
I have survived all these things without needing surgery or pain killers (except falling off the back of a car), and the door I would have taken them.
Pain killers are 1. probably illegal, and 2. probably really arn't needed if you are safe and responsible. Bite the bit and suck it up.
pain killers arn't good for the mind, pain tells you something it is there for a reason.
I do know some plants that cause drowsyness and unconciousness though, but nothing I would really want to take. For instance vetch contains cyanide which was used as an anesthetic for some time, it isn't safe, most arnt.
Note that with vetch and poison hemlock - in non lethal doses (your guess is as good as mine) you have some ingredients for both putting someone out, as well as providing the precursors for a dissociative anesthetic.
I would never recommend this but if you are in immenent risk of death, it will stop the pain.. and perhaps make surgery easier. Something to consider. But this is only for instances where the person is flopping all around screaming and bleeding to death needing internal surgery, amputation etc.. This is not medical advice and is not recommended for any situation where there is medical help available. Bear in mind cyanide and pipperdine and other compounds found in vetch and poison hemlock, or pepper, are not fatal by default, humans have a tolerance that can allow consumption without fatality. Poison hemlock can cause muscular paralysis, but with ventilation for a couple days the drug will make its way out of the body. Note I don't recommend this but if you have nothing else and you give to much, as long as you can ventilate them they could still survive. Using anesthetics isn't quite this risky but if you got nothing else, atleast they will pass on without pain in.
---
In regard to EMT training.. it is better than nothing.. but EMTs arn't surgeons. Pain can often times just be superficial. I have very basic first aid, from first aid training, and rescue diver training, as well as self training. Personally I would not expect to live if we were flung back to the 1850's, if I started suffering serious internal bleeding, or an organ rupture, cardiac epedema, stroke etc.. damage to an artery might be ok but say a compound fracture with tissue damage and severed arteries. No sorry without a hospital and a trained suregon pass the poison hemlock and call me in the morning.
going from this:
to
has this as an intermediate.
This is relatively "innocent and not complex"
I have 0% chance of medical assistance in event of something paracetemol cannot handle in the event of SHTF.
No one I mean no one who is not a trained surgeon. Bear in mind most of the wounds like Gunshot would would start this way
Anything that needs more pain killer than I can get in popping a few grams of a paracetemol is something I'm probably not going to want to survive.
I have some over the counter stuff but nothing I would use for pain killing for major surgical pain ex. tylenol plus, buscapan plus, alleve, and antiinflamatories.
Pain killers are way too regulated up here, even if the native reserves have tons floating around.
Pain killers are only absolutely needed if you need to be active and that isnt ideal for post op anyway.
No major surgery would likely be performed under conditions as it would probably endanger me more.
Play safe.
close it up and hope it doesn't get infected. surgery beyond that is probably going to make things worse. especially if they arn't a trained surgeon. especially if it is from a trauma. bottom line don't do anything stupid if society breaks down. There is no reason to need surgery if you act responsibly and are in moderately good health.
I havn't had a single emergency surgery once in my life, and that includes falling off the back of a moving car, getting a metal gate to crack my scalp open causing lots of blood, having my bike flip my chin and knees into concrete at high velocity with resulting blood, having an oak door kicked open into my forehead crushing my skull and slightly deforming it, having my Adam's Apple crushed from a choke hold, having my Adam's a
Apple close-lined (closest to death I've ever been) I could think any greater injury would be lethal. Other high risk situations most involve driving at high speed such as someone being parked at night in the middle of a highway with a concrete barrier in a 110km zone, car accidentally being put into reverse going down a really big curved hill causing a steering wheel lock and electrical short of the cars systems.
I have survived all these things without needing surgery or pain killers (except falling off the back of a car), and the door I would have taken them.
Pain killers are 1. probably illegal, and 2. probably really arn't needed if you are safe and responsible. Bite the bit and suck it up.
pain killers arn't good for the mind, pain tells you something it is there for a reason.
I do know some plants that cause drowsyness and unconciousness though, but nothing I would really want to take. For instance vetch contains cyanide which was used as an anesthetic for some time, it isn't safe, most arnt.
Note that with vetch and poison hemlock - in non lethal doses (your guess is as good as mine) you have some ingredients for both putting someone out, as well as providing the precursors for a dissociative anesthetic.
I would never recommend this but if you are in immenent risk of death, it will stop the pain.. and perhaps make surgery easier. Something to consider. But this is only for instances where the person is flopping all around screaming and bleeding to death needing internal surgery, amputation etc.. This is not medical advice and is not recommended for any situation where there is medical help available. Bear in mind cyanide and pipperdine and other compounds found in vetch and poison hemlock, or pepper, are not fatal by default, humans have a tolerance that can allow consumption without fatality. Poison hemlock can cause muscular paralysis, but with ventilation for a couple days the drug will make its way out of the body. Note I don't recommend this but if you have nothing else and you give to much, as long as you can ventilate them they could still survive. Using anesthetics isn't quite this risky but if you got nothing else, atleast they will pass on without pain in.
---
In regard to EMT training.. it is better than nothing.. but EMTs arn't surgeons. Pain can often times just be superficial. I have very basic first aid, from first aid training, and rescue diver training, as well as self training. Personally I would not expect to live if we were flung back to the 1850's, if I started suffering serious internal bleeding, or an organ rupture, cardiac epedema, stroke etc.. damage to an artery might be ok but say a compound fracture with tissue damage and severed arteries. No sorry without a hospital and a trained suregon pass the poison hemlock and call me in the morning.
going from this:
to
has this as an intermediate.
This is relatively "innocent and not complex"
I have 0% chance of medical assistance in event of something paracetemol cannot handle in the event of SHTF.
No one I mean no one who is not a trained surgeon. Bear in mind most of the wounds like Gunshot would would start this way
Anything that needs more pain killer than I can get in popping a few grams of a paracetemol is something I'm probably not going to want to survive.
This one area I want to get into thoroughly. Interesting info Uncle Albert. One fact I would like to point out, IF, you have the medications, you could use benadryl, and phenegren to make someone drowsy and knock them out. It's actually in protocols to use benadryl with morphine use in trauma cases. You have to watch out for depression of the Central Nervous System though. Back to the point, Alcohol (Liqour of some sort) has been used for many, many years to ease the pain of surgery. This is a good subject that I am going to study some more on. I guess the person could just suck it up and drive on. The other part to this thread should be, what about antiseptics? How do you keep the wound from getting infected after the surgery, and how can you manage pain and asepsis after a collapse...
Holy batflaps! If that was me and there wasnt any painkiller/knock out stuff Id tell them to whack me over the head wih a board before doing any surgery! Im just stocking on basic stuff that I get at Wal-Mart but am going to school in the medical field but nothing like nursing though I have two sisters who are. I study herbs too but gotta get way more indepth. The car starter fluid is interesting and definetly better than nothing, especially after watching those videos, yikes!!
You can purchase Cephalexin, Amoxicillin and Tetracyline capsules "for fish" from pet stores, feed stores and probably online as well. It will be most expensive at the pet stores where they usually sell a card of 12 capsules for around $20.00. I get 100 capsules of "Fish Flex" for $37.50 at my local feed store. Definitely something to stock up on to prevent or cure infections.
I've got three plans for this:
1) Planting a culinary/medicinal herb garden. We're doing this around a little koi pond and fountain we're putting in our outside entry area. And of course, building up a recipe book for such herbal remedies, using those plants.
2) Getting as many prescription meds as we can stockpile from international sources, etc. (and as legally as possible, of course).
3) Getting as many pet meds from farm/feed stores as possible. Great for antibiotics, by the way.
1) Planting a culinary/medicinal herb garden. We're doing this around a little koi pond and fountain we're putting in our outside entry area. And of course, building up a recipe book for such herbal remedies, using those plants.
2) Getting as many prescription meds as we can stockpile from international sources, etc. (and as legally as possible, of course).
3) Getting as many pet meds from farm/feed stores as possible. Great for antibiotics, by the way.
I am stock piling on prescribed meds. Especially on pain meds. Tylenol 3 is as high as I would like to go but even some pain is too much for t3 to ease. I might have to look else where for other types of remedies.
rudyc, try to get some, generic name ''tramadol'', trade name ''ultram'', this is not a narcotic, although it works on the same pain receptors as narcotics/ opiates. You may be able to get from your vet. Trade name ''Keltoric'', generic name'' tordol'' has 300× the affinity for pain receptors and is non narcotic, it is how ever a NSAID.
You may also try Rx strength OTCs and or combinations of these analgesics. 2 each. APAP 500mg with 2 each 220 mg naproxen works well on pain. I would choose naproxen for now pain. I would use motrin for longer term pain, as motrin needs to build up in your system 800 mg is Rx dose.
Naproxen has a loading dose of 440 mg then 220 mg in 12 hrs. With this said (FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY) I am not a doctor nor am I prescribing Rx. 440 mg can be taken q 4 hrs not to exceed 8 each 220 mg in first 24 hrs .
Also using OTCs out of mfg. dosing recommendations may be unlawful.
INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY!! Study and get to know your drugs. Learn where they break down in the body, ie; kedney's, liver.
You may also try Rx strength OTCs and or combinations of these analgesics. 2 each. APAP 500mg with 2 each 220 mg naproxen works well on pain. I would choose naproxen for now pain. I would use motrin for longer term pain, as motrin needs to build up in your system 800 mg is Rx dose.
Naproxen has a loading dose of 440 mg then 220 mg in 12 hrs. With this said (FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY) I am not a doctor nor am I prescribing Rx. 440 mg can be taken q 4 hrs not to exceed 8 each 220 mg in first 24 hrs .
Also using OTCs out of mfg. dosing recommendations may be unlawful.
INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY!! Study and get to know your drugs. Learn where they break down in the body, ie; kedney's, liver.
If you meant me, mostly websites and consulting a friend who is a former EMT (who is also in our SHTF group). My wife and I have both had some formal advanced first aid training and veterinary training, but we know our limits. We'd certainly defer to more expert opinion whenever it was available...
