What do you do to feed small/medium livestock (a family's worth plus a little extra) should feed houses lose supply?

[Amish Heart]

Not here. We do better than that

 

[poltiregist]

Not here. We do better than that

The once 3rd. largest economy of any country " Venezuela " , Their citizens once thought to they would not ever be reduced to eating their dogs and cats . Well nearly all cats and dogs there have been eaten by the starving population . All of this scenario was created by inept leadership , the same kind of corrupt and inept leadership that has now seized control over the United States citizens . --- That is actually being generous to the leaders now lording over the United States as the U.S. leaders at this point are much more inept than the leadership that brought on the collapse and subsequent starvation of Venezuela .

 

[Aerindel]

Edit to say... a hard working mechanically inclined person could probably spend $10-15k and get most of this same equipment potential by buying used and perhaps old used (but with more man hours to keep it running). And... we could take this a long ways... 2 man tree felling saw vs chain saw... animals milling vs 3 phase electric motors, etc.

You can go MUCH cheaper if you know how to fix things.

The tractor my neighbor and I share was $1500. We picked it up as a non-running, rusted hulk from someones field. Together we got it working and swap it back and forth as needed.

 

[Amish Heart]

I get the dog and cat eating in Venezuela, but people here have more livestock than they do dogs and cats.

 

[Aerindel]

I get the dog and cat eating in Venezuela, but people here have more livestock than they do dogs and cats.

Neighbors we don't like as well

 

[poltiregist]

I get the dog and cat eating in Venezuela, but people here have more livestock than they do dogs and cats.

I remember from my high school days studying about the huge cattle ranches of Venezuela . To be honest though , have no idea as to what happened with all those cattle or what todays cattle population in Venezuela is . One possibility is that when the socialist gained control they seized the cattle as government property and squandered the resource as they did the oil resource they are sitting on top of . -- This sounds similar to the United States sitting on top of a vast amount of oil and now just 9 months into the new government system , has changed from oil independence to begging other countries to send us some oil .

 

[LadyLocust]

I remember from my high school days studying about the huge cattle ranches of Venezuela . To be honest though , have no idea as to what happened with all those cattle or what todays cattle population in Venezuela is . One possibility is that when the socialist gained control they seized the cattle as government property and squandered the resource as they did the oil resource they are sitting on top of . -- This sounds similar to the United States sitting on top of a vast amount of oil and now just 9 months into the new government system , has changed from oil independence to begging other countries to send us some oil .

This reminds me of: during the potato famine, it wasn't that Ireland had no potatoes. It had enough to feed its own, but the gov. sold them to other countries and let its own citizenry starve to death (literally.)

 

[Amish Heart]

Yes they did. That was shameful.

 

[elkhound]

This reminds me of: during the potato famine, it wasn't that Ireland had no potatoes. It had enough to feed its own, but the gov. sold them to other countries and let its own citizenry starve to death (literally.)

The landowners had record grain harvests and it was all sold off...look that up.i posted a historical video about it once siting references of history.

 

[LadyLocust]

The landowners had record grain harvests and it was all sold off...look that up.i posted a historical video about it once siting references of history.

Seems like I sorta remember something about that. Sickening isn't it?

 

[elkhound]

keep this in mind..americas has a survival plan and it was proven for 1,000's of years..its base was corn,beans and squash...with variations from area to area. the interesting fact is this all developed with only human power..there were no beasts of burden in americas until after first contact . these items were developed by the human powered hoe.

when navajo had contact with spanish.they instantly took up sheep herding,silver smithing and weaving their famous blankets and rugs...a very long time before u.s. really headed westward and destroyed them. i want to say they took practices up around 1600's.

 

[elkhound]

Seems like I sorta remember something about that. Sickening isn't it?

beyond sickening...its reason land ownership should be everyone list and not be in servitude to anyone. i know it can be taken away but as a whole a person life is easier owning land.

 

[Neb]

keep this in mind..americas has a survival plan and it was proven for 1,000's of years..its base was corn,beans and squash...with variations from area to area. the interesting fact is this all developed with only human power..there were no beasts of burden in americas until after first contact . these items were developed by the human powered hoe.

when navajo had contact with spanish.they instantly took up sheep herding,silver smithing and weaving their famous blankets and rugs...a very long time before u.s. really headed westward and destroyed them. i want to say they took practices up around 1600's.

But bison where part of the plan was it not?

Ben

 

[elkhound]

But bison where part of the plan was it not?

Ben

Yes but not for all. west coast had salmon east coast deer,elk and some woodland bison. upper east parts of canada had various fish..including giant sturgeon. i seen footage from around 1950 of a native harvesting sturgeon in falls in traditional ways.

the hidasta were forced to grow potatoes on rez but refused to eat them. last crop they grew they didnt harvest any so that was last year they were forced to grow them. buffalo bird woman said they hated potatoes and wanted their traditional foods and starved instead of eating them. in contrast the makah tribe on west coast went to spanish fort after it was abandoned and dug up fingerling potatoes and started growing them.they are called ozzette fingerlings.grew them several hundred years until they let a few outside tribe in the 1980's i think it was.


the navajo seen how important sheep could be to them so they adapted being shepherds into their culture. a steady and stable food,wool for warm blankets no doubt they probably even milked a few. i wish i could find references to when goats were introduced as i see them owned by navajo.

 

[Amish Heart]

And the tribes of New Mexico, also. Goats are very popular for milk and meat, and there are many tribes there.

 

[777funk]

You can go MUCH cheaper if you know how to fix things.

The tractor my neighbor and I share was $1500. We picked it up as a non-running, rusted hulk from someones field. Together we got it working and swap it back and forth as needed.

That's a great price! I agree that it can be done. When I said 10-15k I was referring to tractor plus the implements to get things done (i.e. an old square bailer, sickle mower, bush hog, tiller, cultivator, etc). I'm sure someone has gotten an occasional lucky 'package deal' for less than my price estimate. But... not the usual find.

 

[Spikedriver]

That's a great price! I agree that it can be done. When I said 10-15k I was referring to tractor plus the implements to get things done (i.e. an old square bailer, sickle mower, bush hog, tiller, cultivator, etc). I'm sure someone has gotten an occasional lucky 'package deal' for less than my price estimate. But... not the usual find.

In my experience, you'll need far more than 15k to get all those implements, let alone the tractor. Square balers, in particular, will cost over 3k for one that works well. Balers are pretty finicky. They rely on precise timing to function properly. You don't want to skimp. You should probably be looking at spending well over 5k for a tractor with 60+ horsepower to run that baler. Old tractors have gone up in price as collectors buy them up to restore them. Look for something like a 1650 Oliver diesel or a JD 3020 diesel. (The Deere will be significantly more expensive) You'll need a hay rake to put the hay in windrows, that will be at least another grand. The mower will be a couple grand for one in good working condition.

 

[777funk]

In my experience, you'll need far more than 15k to get all those implements, let alone the tractor. Square balers, in particular, will cost over 3k for one that works well. Balers are pretty finicky. They rely on precise timing to function properly. You don't want to skimp. You should probably be looking at spending well over 5k for a tractor with 60+ horsepower to run that baler. Old tractors have gone up in price as collectors buy them up to restore them. Look for something like a 1650 Oliver diesel or a JD 3020 diesel. (The Deere will be significantly more expensive) You'll need a hay rake to put the hay in windrows, that will be at least another grand. The mower will be a couple grand for one in good working condition.

Probably so. I was saying that a mechanically inclined person probably could make up a rig for that much money. The post #33 was saying I was on the high side. I'm sure that has potentially been the case for someone. But I still think it wouldn't be unheard of for someone to find old junk that they could get going for $15k. Tractor wise, I bought a Yanmar 336D (diesel 4wd 33hp) a few years back for $1000. It needed to be split (stuck clutch that wouldn't free up) and a few other small odds and ends with hydraulics and fuel supply system... but I still considered it a good deal. I sold it when I no longer needed for 3x what I had in it and that was still a good price for the buyer in my opinion. Small at 33hp... but I'm talking get by here. I'm sure I could use that machine for some good small farm work. It would be on the low side for a square bailer. But... I think I've read about Ford 8Ns running square bailers historically. And that doesn't even have a live PTO.

I will say I know nothing about bailing hay. But I live a frugal life and fix mechanical things (cars, trucks, backhoe, tractor, skid steer) to make owning them possible without debt or living beyond my means (not a huge means). And... I usually sell the piece of equipment when no longer needed to fund the next need.

$15k overall was sort of out of thin air, but my quick math on homestead farm upkeep basics bought used low pricing was (tractor - $2k, box or grader blade $100-400, bush hog - $500, tiller - $500, disc or plow - $500-$2k, spreader - $500, sickle mower - $500, rake - $1000, square bailer - $1000 (just saw a roundbailer needing work for $2500 locally, but I'm talking small tractor here so no round bailer), trailer/wagon - $1500). Of course those are just a few basics for a small homestead using power (albeit low power). The list of useful implements is endless and so is cost and horsepower needs to drive them.

 

[Amish Heart]

Things add up, don't they? We've purchased this year a tractor, cutter, and a trailer.
We bought ours new, but sometimes people buy things at auction.
The amish like the older tractors because it's possible to repair them yourself, and trying to do that with the new ones can present problems. Also they order the lower horsepower ones here because that is what is allowed in the church area we live in. I can tell by looking at the front tires of the tractor whether it's ok for amish or not, it looks different. Big tractor/implement auction going on where we live the first part of next month that husband wants to go to.

 

[Spikedriver]

@777funk if you are very mechanically inclined, I suppose you could get by quite a bit cheaper. I grew up on a production farm, where time is just as important as money, so I tend to think in terms of reliability vs cost, and the time needed to bring clapped out machinery into working order just wasn't there. Plus we couldn't afford breakdowns during the planting and harvesting windows.

I have actually baled hay behind an old Ford 8N. It worked, but I don't recommend it. At present, my brother runs the farm and he uses an early '70s vintage, Oliver 1650 to pull the baler. It's about 70 hp, and it's well matched to the 1970s vintage, John Deere 327 square baler he uses. One could get by with a little less, but you'll never regret having more power...

 

[777funk]

@777funk if you are very mechanically inclined, I suppose you could get by quite a bit cheaper. I grew up on a production farm, where time is just as important as money, so I tend to think in terms of reliability vs cost, and the time needed to bring clapped out machinery into working order just wasn't there. Plus we couldn't afford breakdowns during the planting and harvesting windows.

I have actually baled hay behind an old Ford 8N. It worked, but I don't recommend it. At present, my brother runs the farm and he uses an early '70s vintage, Oliver 1650 to pull the baler. It's about 70 hp, and it's well matched to the 1970s vintage, John Deere 327 square baler he uses. One could get by with a little less, but you'll never regret having more power...

I see the number I mentioned ($15k) being a real pain in the rear for whoever buys this budget setup. The backhoe we bought was $800 and it worked great for what we needed it for (old 11000 lb Ford 4000 series industrial 3 cyl diesel) BUT although it was great for us in our small budget, every time we ran it we expected to fix something and most times our expectation was right... LOL. Thankfully, never anything major. So I do realize the tradeoffs in buying junk. Someone trying to run a business or make a profit with this type of budget would go nuts (or go under with their business) keeping up with reliability. For someone puttering around the homestead, any kind of fuel (gas, diesel, or probably even steam for that matter) and iron, still beats a shovel.

Your brother is fortunate! Would love an old Oliver. I'd also really like an old John Deere with a 2 stroke detroit diesel.

Or this thing!!

 

[Spikedriver]

I see the number I mentioned ($15k) being a real pain in the rear for whoever buys this budget setup. The backhoe we bought was $800 and it worked great for what we needed it for (old 11000 lb Ford 4000 series industrial 3 cyl diesel) BUT although it was great for us in our small budget, every time we ran it we expected to fix something and most times our expectation was right... LOL. Thankfully, never anything major. So I do realize the tradeoffs in buying junk. Someone trying to run a business or make a profit with this type of budget would go nuts (or go under with their business) keeping up with reliability. For someone puttering around the homestead, any kind of fuel (gas, diesel, or probably even steam for that matter) and iron, still beats a shovel.

Your brother is fortunate! Would love an old Oliver. I'd also really like an old John Deere with a 2 stroke detroit diesel.

Or this thing!!

Lol you better have good earplugs if you have one of those!

There an old guy near me who collects Oliver tractors. He has one with a 3 cylinder Detroit in it. That's the loudest tractor I've ever heard. When he opens up the throttle, it will make the pebbles dance around the tires.

 

[777funk]

Lol you better have good earplugs if you have one of those!

There an old guy near me who collects Oliver tractors. He has one with a 3 cylinder Detroit in it. That's the loudest tractor I've ever heard. When he opens up the throttle, it will make the pebbles dance around the tires.

Haha... I'm sure it is! They're loud in semi rigs, I can't imagine having the stack right in front of my face for a few hours. But they sure are cool!

 

[joel]

Pigs will eat anything, nuts, tuber, grass, snakes, all human food waste.
Chickens need more protection than a full grown hog, but they will eat all seeds, insects, BSFM-black soldier fly maggots, grass any soiled fruit, grains- corn, millet, amaranth, melons, summer & winter squash, cucumbers, okra. Just plant more than you can eat & feed the animals 40% of there diet from your garden. Egg layers need protein & calcium,
Crushed shell fish shells, egg shells, green leaf vegetables.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joel+Salatin