WWIII

[tmttactical]

Russia could have avoided the conflict, simply by staying on their side of the border. Russia is a nuclear power, who would invade them? As for boots on the ground, Russia was the first to use fake mercenaries . Anybody remember the Wagner group? Now Putin does not like the idea of European / Western nations assembling their own fake mercenaries. Ukraine has become the unfortunate testing grounds for the militaries, on all sides. The days of Russian expansion in Europe is over. They need to focus elsewhere.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

I am still leaning towards the NATO aggression considering the Ukraine for membership being the cause. It violated treaty’s. Nobody is 100% right or wrong and it’s above my pay grade.

I look to provide for me and mine, and hopefully we don't get trapped separated 400 miles away, one us without the supplies. At least she has been taking the new target practice seriously.

 

[GaRp58]

Ukraine has become the unfortunate testing grounds for the militaries, on all sides. The days of Russian expansion in Europe is over. They need to focus elsewhere.

Vietnam, Nicaragua, Panama, Argentina, Lybia, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Pakistan....ALL HAVE BEEN TESTING GROUNDS FOR--England, France, Germany, Russia, America for decades now...
Military Warmongers around the world expansion has brought us to this point in time and now after they have exported death and weapons for decades....suddenly they WANT PEACE??????
********. You cannot support your internal social financial needs by exporting weapons and ammo and then tell all involved to be good guys and not use it for bad things...
Try giving an 8 year old child a bag of Halloween candy weighing in a 1 lb. and then convince them to plan to only eat so much that it lasts till they are 14 years old.......
Expansion of all warmongering nations is over, all need to accept their borders and limits and stop sending our children into their wars. Our biggest problem is the generation of each war continues teaching the hate built up in each war and FEED the next generation on that hate. Live free, Gary

 

[user 7368]

Russia could have avoided the conflict, simply by staying on their side of the border. Russia is a nuclear power, who would invade them? As for boots on the ground, Russia was the first to use fake mercenaries . Anybody remember the Wagner group? Now Putin does not like the idea of European / Western nations assembling their own fake mercenaries. Ukraine has become the unfortunate testing grounds for the militaries, on all sides. The days of Russian expansion in Europe is over. They need to focus elsewhere.

Yes, Russia could have avoided the conflict, but so could Ukraine, in which case both countries are involved in the conflict and neither is better than the other.

Of course there are a few other personalities besides Putin and Zelensky who screwed up there.

- Victoria Nuland
- Petro Poroshenko
- Scumbag Boris Johnson
- Joe Biden
- Hunter Biden
- CIA with the Bio Labs
- most of the European elites

All of these people have also provoked the conflict alongside Putin, and probably a few more. I am not saying that Putin is a nice guy in everything, but Zelensky is also a fake snake and his predecessor Poroshenko as well.

Wagner also played a dirty role but don't forget the Ukrainian ASOW paramilitary unit ASOW which is paid by shady guys, all in all both sides are probably very dirty.

What I blame above all on the Ukrainians under Poroshenko and Zelensky is the impunity of the genocide of their own civilian population in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian army and ASOW mercenaries arbitrarily executed Ukrainians and did not even stop at women and girls. I've seen enough pictures of girls and women shot in the head in eastern Ukraine, and even the damn Russians don't do that to their so-called brother people, it's the work of barbarians.

As I said, even today the Ukrainian army regularly shells civilian targets in eastern Ukraine where there are no Russian army targets, the Ukrainian army leadership approves of it, Zelensky approves of it and the West doesn't give a damn about it.
The fact that Zelensky and Budanov have publicly said that if you get Eastern Ukraine back into your hands that everything there will be cleaned up and liquidated is also a fact, Ukraine will execute every civilian in these occupied areas if you take these areas back, that is a decided fact The West doesn't care and won't prevent it if it comes to that.

The guys knew very well that the Russians couldn't stand it when civilians who spoke Russian were murdered in Ukraine, which is why they did it to provoke the Russians into an invasion.
Before his election, Zelensky promised peace and a solution to the problem in eastern Ukraine, what did he do, he made even more of a killing of civilians than his predecessor and, with Johnson, pissed off the Russians so much that they intervened.
As I said, I also think it's bad that the Russians went in there, it could have been prevented by both sides, and there would still be tens of thousands of men living on both sides.
But the West is mainly to blame for the current situation.
The West has escalated this conflict at all costs by turning Putin and Poroshenko/Zelensky against each other.
Without the West, these three parties would have solved the mess peacefully.

Thanks mainly to Victoria Nuland, Boris Johnson and Joe Biden, in my opinion these 3 people are mainly to blame for the disaster.

 

[tmttactical]

Yes, Russia could have avoided the conflict, but so could Ukraine, in which case both countries are involved in the conflict and neither is better than the other.

Of course there are a few other personalities besides Putin and Zelensky who screwed up there.

- Victoria Nuland
- Petro Poroshenko
- Scumbag Boris Johnson
- Joe Biden
- Hunter Biden
- CIA with the Bio Labs
- most of the European elites

All of these people have also provoked the conflict alongside Putin, and probably a few more. I am not saying that Putin is a nice guy in everything, but Zelensky is also a fake snake and his predecessor Poroshenko as well.

Wagner also played a dirty role but don't forget the Ukrainian ASOW paramilitary unit ASOW which is paid by shady guys, all in all both sides are probably very dirty.

What I blame above all on the Ukrainians under Poroshenko and Zelensky is the impunity of the genocide of their own civilian population in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian army and ASOW mercenaries arbitrarily executed Ukrainians and did not even stop at women and girls. I've seen enough pictures of girls and women shot in the head in eastern Ukraine, and even the damn Russians don't do that to their so-called brother people, it's the work of barbarians.

As I said, even today the Ukrainian army regularly shells civilian targets in eastern Ukraine where there are no Russian army targets, the Ukrainian army leadership approves of it, Zelensky approves of it and the West doesn't give a damn about it.
The fact that Zelensky and Budanov have publicly said that if you get Eastern Ukraine back into your hands that everything there will be cleaned up and liquidated is also a fact, Ukraine will execute every civilian in these occupied areas if you take these areas back, that is a decided fact The West doesn't care and won't prevent it if it comes to that.

The guys knew very well that the Russians couldn't stand it when civilians who spoke Russian were murdered in Ukraine, which is why they did it to provoke the Russians into an invasion.
Before his election, Zelensky promised peace and a solution to the problem in eastern Ukraine, what did he do, he made even more of a killing of civilians than his predecessor and, with Johnson, pissed off the Russians so much that they intervened.
As I said, I also think it's bad that the Russians went in there, it could have been prevented by both sides, and there would still be tens of thousands of men living on both sides.
But the West is mainly to blame for the current situation.
The West has escalated this conflict at all costs by turning Putin and Poroshenko/Zelensky against each other.
Without the West, these three parties would have solved the mess peacefully.

Thanks mainly to Victoria Nuland, Boris Johnson and Joe Biden, in my opinion these 3 people are mainly to blame for the disaster.

Simple question, what would Russia have lost if they had not invaded? Putin is the problem because he was stupid enough to be tricked into invading the Ukraine. Russia could have welcomed every Russian / Ukrainian person back into Russia and bought them nice new farms / homes for less money than this war has cost Russia and no loss of life and much better PR. SIASD.

 

[user 7368]

Russian soldiers thank Joe Biden for the Abrams tanks for Ukraine and ask Joe to send more tanks to Ukraine.



They promise Joe 10% of the Russian kill bonuses for these tanks and if there were more of these tanks it would be more worthwhile for the Russians and Joe.

The video ends with the soldier praising Joe Biden as a "true patriot and the best US president" while expressing hope for a "mutually beneficial partnership." "Together we will win!" he adds.

It seems that Joe is already the biggest laughing stock to the whole world, I really hope that Joe sees this video too. But at the moment he will be very angry because the Russians blew up another Himars system today along with its (NATO) operating crew.

 

[user 7368]

Simple question, what would Russia have lost if they had not invaded? Putin is the problem because he was stupid enough to be tricked into invading the Ukraine. Russia could have welcomed every Russian / Ukrainian person back into Russia and bought them nice new farms / homes for less money than this war has cost Russia and no loss of life and much better PR. SIASD.

What would Russia have lost? First and foremost, a few thousand civilians with Russian roots who would have been killed by the Ukrainian army and ASOW paramilitaries, and that would have been almost certain. The second thing Russia would have lost would be a buffer country to NATO and Ukraine would then have joined NATO and the country would have been equipped with NATO missiles aimed at Russia.

I'm just telling you, it's very difficult for outsiders to get inside Russia and find out what Russia is doing for its own interests. I would say that Russia went to Crimea mainly for military interests, Russia went to the other areas two years ago mainly to stop a genocide before it started, and especially because of the second problem, to fight the Azov Nazis to proceed.

Russia has had very bad experiences with Nazis in the past, this has traumatized Russia and its population, and Russia does not want this scene to spread to Russia. Furthermore, the population in eastern Ukraine and Russia have some things in common from the past, they are a brotherly people. This is exactly why the Russian army protects the civilian population and every expert will tell you that the Russians are acting very cautiously. Compare the conflict in Ukraine with what Nathanjahu is doing in Israel with the Arabs.

I'm not saying that I approve of the thing in Ukraine, I would have had a more peaceful solution from the start, but you can say THANK YOU to Joe and Boris Johnson for preventing these two ******** from happening.

One thing is clear to the West when it comes to Russia and Israel Putin is a criminal, even if his army avoids civilian targets, Netanyahu is a hero, he defends his homeland even if he massacres thousands of civilians, sometimes unnecessarily.

I've had enough of these "Western values" and I do NOT intend to be grilled for these "Western values" in a world war.If the Germans, French or USA start this world war by bombing Russia or sending troops against Russia, I will absolutely not go to war for the West for these "Western ******** values".

Sorry for my harsh words, but I live here and the damn threat is very close and becoming more real every day, if the explosion happens I'll be here a few hours before you, and I hate it when I'm responsible for the plans of this elite In the end you have to experience a real nuclear strike here and prematurely alive and nuclear cremated.

 

[user 7368]

Maybe something small to understand how Russia thinks, a Russian woman gave me this text 8 weeks ago, but I can't say for sure whether the translation is 100% correct, translating Russian into German and into English always results in small differences.

Being Russian is a state of mind, not a nationality, the nationality is Russian.

Anyway, an interesting saying, it means something different to everyone, but there is a deeper meaning behind it all and as I said, as an outsider it is very difficult to judge how the people and government in Russia think and act.

 

[tmttactical]

What would Russia have lost? First and foremost, a few thousand civilians with Russian roots who would have been killed by the Ukrainian army and ASOW paramilitaries, and that would have been almost certain. The second thing Russia would have lost would be a buffer country to NATO and Ukraine would then have joined NATO and the country would have been equipped with NATO missiles aimed at Russia.

I'm just telling you, it's very difficult for outsiders to get inside Russia and find out what Russia is doing for its own interests. I would say that Russia went to Crimea mainly for military interests, Russia went to the other areas two years ago mainly to stop a genocide before it started, and especially because of the second problem, to fight the Azov Nazis to proceed.

Russia has had very bad experiences with Nazis in the past, this has traumatized Russia and its population, and Russia does not want this scene to spread to Russia. Furthermore, the population in eastern Ukraine and Russia have some things in common from the past, they are a brotherly people. This is exactly why the Russian army protects the civilian population and every expert will tell you that the Russians are acting very cautiously. Compare the conflict in Ukraine with what Nathanjahu is doing in Israel with the Arabs.

I'm not saying that I approve of the thing in Ukraine, I would have had a more peaceful solution from the start, but you can say THANK YOU to Joe and Boris Johnson for preventing these two ******** from happening.

One thing is clear to the West when it comes to Russia and Israel Putin is a criminal, even if his army avoids civilian targets, Netanyahu is a hero, he defends his homeland even if he massacres thousands of civilians, sometimes unnecessarily.

I've had enough of these "Western values" and I do NOT intend to be grilled for these "Western values" in a world war.If the Germans, French or USA start this world war by bombing Russia or sending troops against Russia, I will absolutely not go to war for the West for these "Western ******** values".

Sorry for my harsh words, but I live here and the damn threat is very close and becoming more real every day, if the explosion happens I'll be here a few hours before you, and I hate it when I'm responsible for the plans of this elite In the end you have to experience a real nuclear strike here and prematurely alive and nuclear cremated.

First what gives Russian the right to force a country to be a "Buffer State"? Second what about all the Russian lives lost already in this war? Your points lack any logic or moral justification. If Russia really cared about the Russian / Ukraine people's safety, they could simply have provided safe places in Russia. Putin has screwed the pooch. By invading the Ukraine, more and more countries now want to join NATO. Not a brilliant move. Putin is not a stupid man but I think he got to believing too much of his own propaganda.

 

[user 7368]

How did the USA react when the Soviets placed missiles in Cuba?
There was also a lot of turmoil, and if the Soviets hadn't withdrawn the missiles, the USA would probably have caught or bombed Cuba too.
As I said, I'm absolutely not saying that Putin always acted in an exemplary manner or always did the right thing, but he was also provoked by the West to go in there by all means.
I think he thought about it carefully, he knew that his people would burn for it, but there were reasons for him.

Furthermore, Russia has been offering a hand for negotiations with Ukraine for a long time, who sabotaged that back then? Boris Johnson. Who doesn't want to use negotiations? Zelensky.
However, this will continue and the Russians now have a stronger economy than we do and they have learned to set up their own defense industry again, and I have heard that more tanks and planes roll off the production line there every day than the West can manage.

Russia has brought dirt on itself, that's true, but so has the West.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

First what gives Russian the right to force a country to be a "Buffer State"? Second what about all the Russian lives lost already in this war? Your points lack any logic or moral justification. If Russia really cared about the Russian / Ukraine people's safety, they could simply have provided safe places in Russia. Putin has screwed the pooch. By invading the Ukraine, more and more countries now want to join NATO. Not a brilliant move. Putin is not a stupid man but I think he got to believing too much of his own propaganda.

Those "buffer states" (no EU, no NATO) was an part of an agreement to give the former DDR back to Western Germany, plus few other points.
Neither the EU or the NATO keep their part.
Then, therefore was found enough bio-weapon labs in the Ukraine to make the Russians worry.
Further long before russian troops invaded the Ukraine the EU and USA give out restrictions against Russia. Always with different reasons, but guess at least it was because Russia always keep the hands and control on their own ressources and wasn't follow the western coulture and will.

Don't forget, this conflict exists many years BEFORE Russia invaded in the Ukraine.

But same question back, even i hurt some feelings:
Who gave the USA the right to invade Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq? They aren' even neighbours.
Who gabe the USA the right to bomb Syria, Lybia, Jemen and many more?
Why was there never any restrictions against the USA?

Don't missunderstand me, i really like the Americans and i had except some single black sheeps always nice and wonderfull experiences and memories with them. But it dosn't the behavior of the US politics. I also do disagree this russian special operation.
But otherwise somehow i can understand Russia. If you're go poked, bullied and always new restriction just because you won't give up what's yours - you still sit there and do nothing?

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Our nation, mainly because of the DS, CIA and FBI has been doing awful things worldwide for many years now. Most of us Citizens did not realize it until just recently. I didn’t know they did a coup in Ukraine back in 2014 until just a few months ago! But the facts are overwhelming. I also didn’t know the Ukrainian government was MURDERING their own people for years now. I didn’t know that our president and vp were laundering OUR TAX DOLLARS over there for years. I didn’t know our country had broken EVERY FREAKING AGREEMENT we had made with Russia. Even after Russia fought and lost nearly 27,000,000 people…and very much helped us WIN WWII we backstabbed them!

It sickens me to the core.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

It often happens the own citizens dosn't have any idea how worse and rude the own government acts.
We have the same problem in Switzerland, it's not all so clean and proper what our government decides and does.

It maybe because media was always very, or to close, to the politicans - and it gone a lot worse the last few years.

You can't imagine what i was read about Europe in the time i'm in this forum and wasn't seen any single word about in our media.

 

[tmttactical]

How did the USA react when the Soviets placed missiles in Cuba?
There was also a lot of turmoil, and if the Soviets hadn't withdrawn the missiles, the USA would probably have caught or bombed Cuba too.
As I said, I'm absolutely not saying that Putin always acted in an exemplary manner or always did the right thing, but he was also provoked by the West to go in there by all means.
I think he thought about it carefully, he knew that his people would burn for it, but there were reasons for him.

Furthermore, Russia has been offering a hand for negotiations with Ukraine for a long time, who sabotaged that back then? Boris Johnson. Who doesn't want to use negotiations? Zelensky.
However, this will continue and the Russians now have a stronger economy than we do and they have learned to set up their own defense industry again, and I have heard that more tanks and planes roll off the production line there every day than the West can manage.

Russia has brought dirt on itself, that's true, but so has the West.

You all are making my point. Russia had no moral or ethnical right to invade the Ukraine. The Ukraine posed no physical threat to Russia. No nuclear missiles were being imported, so the Cuban reference is a very weak comparison. No nation has the right to invade any other country that has not physically attacked it. For all the other members, America had no right to invade Iraq, Afghanistan, we were not invited to defend those countries. We were invited into Vietnam by the ruling government of Vietnam. Should we have gone there, hell no. As for the treaties, it should not have happen or been needed to be created. Note the treaty was not with Russia but with the Soviet Union, if you really want to get nit picky. I am not taking the side of Ukraine. I don't live there and have no idea how good or bad their government was / is. Do I want the Ukraine to invade Russia, no. Do I want Russia to leave the Ukraine, yes. NOTE: You cannot justify bad actions (invading Ukraine) by using other nations (American) bad actions. Both are wrong. Like saying "I saw Billy punch Bobby, so it is okay for me to punch William." I will not support any country (the USA included) invading another country for political or financial gain. Belarus has Russian troops stationed there. Not my concern, they are there with the approve of Belarus's government. The Ukraine did not invite Russia to send in troop. That is the big difference and why I really hope Ukraine is able to convince Russia to retreat back to their own border. Bottom line, Russia has no right to force any nation to become a "Buffer Nation". Every nation should have the right to choose their political affiliations without military threat. Thanks to Putin and his rhetoric, now even more nations want to join NATO and Germany is now looking to become a nuclear armed nation. So name any positive actions that have resulted from Russia invading the Ukraine.

 

[Proud Prepper]

You all are making my point. Russia had no moral or ethnical right to invade the Ukraine. The Ukraine posed no physical threat to Russia. No nuclear missiles were being imported, so the Cuban reference is a very weak comparison. No nation has the right to invade any other country that has not physically attacked it. For all the other members, America had no right to invade Iraq, Afghanistan, we were not invited to defend those countries. We were invited into Vietnam by the ruling government of Vietnam. Should we have gone there, hell no. As for the treaties, it should not have happen or been needed to be created. Note the treaty was not with Russia but with the Soviet Union, if you really want to get nit picky. I am not taking the side of Ukraine. I don't live there and have no idea how good or bad their government was / is. Do I want the Ukraine to invade Russia, no. Do I want Russia to leave the Ukraine, yes. NOTE: You cannot justify bad actions (invading Ukraine) by using other nations (American) bad actions. Both are wrong. Like saying "I saw Billy punch Bobby, so it is okay for me to punch William." I will not support any country (the USA included) invading another country for political or financial gain. Belarus has Russian troops stationed there. Not my concern, they are there with the approve of Belarus's government. The Ukraine did not invite Russia to send in troop. That is the big difference and why I really hope Ukraine is able to convince Russia to retreat back to their own border. Bottom line, Russia has no right to force any nation to become a "Buffer Nation". Every nation should have the right to choose their political affiliations without military threat. Thanks to Putin and his rhetoric, now even more nations want to join NATO and Germany is now looking to become a nuclear armed nation. So name any positive actions that have resulted from Russia invading the Ukraine.

What about if your country was taken over through fraudulent elections?

 

[tmttactical]

What about if your country was taken over through fraudulent elections?

What do you think happen in the 2020 election? I sure as heck would not want another nation to invade my country. Show me anybody (other than arms dealers) that has benefitted from the Russian invasion? The people in Ukraine have not benefited. The Russian people have not benefitted. Putin got mislead or got tricked into invading Ukraine. It has proved to be a stupid move. Russia is now caught in a long drawn out war of attrition. Even if Russia was finally able to defeat Ukraine, what would be left that would be worth having? I do not have any love for Ukraine or it's people. Their disapproval with their government is or was their problem to deal with. Now it has become an international problem. Russia could have kept supplying the Rebels with arms and I would not have cared. If the rebels had won, good for them. If the rebels had lost, too bad, so sad. In other words, not my problem or any other nations problem. It was a Ukrainian problem until Russia got stupid and made it an international issue. SIASD!!!!

 

[Proud Prepper]

What do you think happen in the 2020 election? I sure as heck would not want another nation to invade my country. Show me anybody (other than arms dealers) that has benefitted from the Russian invasion? The people in Ukraine have not benefited. The Russian people have not benefitted. Putin got mislead or got tricked into invading Ukraine. It has proved to be a stupid move. Russia is now caught in a long drawn out war of attrition. Even if Russia was finally able to defeat Ukraine, what would be left that would be worth having? I do not have any love for Ukraine or it's people. Their disapproval with their government is or was their problem to deal with. Now it has become an international problem. Russia could have kept supplying the Rebels with arms and I would not have cared. If the rebels had won, good for them. If the rebels had lost, too bad, so sad. In other words, not my problem or any other nations problem. It was a Ukrainian problem until Russia got stupid and made it an international issue. SIASD!!!!

I was referring to Ukraine's election. There's and ours are similar, both fraudulent and by the same evil cabal. Ours didn't threaten a super power next door to us to destroy it. Ours was to destroy our country from within.

 

[tmttactical]

I was referring to Ukraine's election. There's and ours are similar, both fraudulent and by the same evil cabal. Ours didn't threaten a super power next door to us to destroy it. Ours was to destroy our country from within.

Our fake election results could end up threatening the entire world but I still would not welcome an invading army to come "Fix " the problem. Russia got suckered into invading the Ukraine and their only hope and maybe ours, is for Russia to wake up, smell the coffee and return to their own border. They can claim they have fixed the problem and taught the west a lesson. Russia does not want to be forced out of the Ukraine, as that will open too many doors and maybe give China the idea they can now take back some of the disputed land from Russia. China has no loyalty to anybody or any nation. They are like vultures waiting to pick off anybody they conceive as weak. Russia does not want to fall into that category. They have not demonstrated the ability to defeat a well equipped and modern military (America or NATO) without resorting to a nuclear war. They would not win a nuclear war but then neither would anybody else. Like with Ukraine, I neither hate or care about Russia. I just don't want to give the world puppet masters any more wins.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Our fake election results could end up threatening the entire world but I still would not welcome an invading army to come "Fix " the problem. Russia got suckered into invading the Ukraine and their only hope and maybe ours, is for Russia to wake up, smell the coffee and return to their own border. They can claim they have fixed the problem and taught the west a lesson. Russia does not want to be forced out of the Ukraine, as that will open too many doors and maybe give China the idea they can now take back some of the disputed land from Russia. China has no loyalty to anybody or any nation. They are like vultures waiting to pick off anybody they conceive as weak. Russia does not want to fall into that category. They have not demonstrated the ability to defeat a well equipped and modern military (America or NATO) without resorting to a nuclear war. They would not win a nuclear war but then neither would anybody else. Like with Ukraine, I neither hate or care about Russia. I just don't want to give the world puppet masters any more wins.

I don't have the time to explain it to you. It's not really important. I'll sum it up. Russia will not expand into Europe, unless it's a necessity to there defense. They just wish to be left alone. Ukraine's government is our enemy, the same as our government is our enemy, (we the people) the truth is very hard for people to understand when all there conditioned to believe is a consensus of lies. Lies that are hidden in distractions of politics, entertainment, devision, jealousy, hate and false fears.

 

[GaRp58]

You all are making my point. Russia had no moral or ethnical right to invade the Ukraine. The Ukraine posed no physical threat to Russia. No nuclear missiles were being imported, so the Cuban reference is a very weak comparison. No nation has the right to invade any other country that has not physically attacked it. For all the other members, America had no right to invade Iraq, Afghanistan, we were not invited to defend those countries.

I am sorry to defer. PUTIN WAS INVITED INTO THE CRIMEA.......The eastern Ukrainians who were being killed (14,000 in about 8 years) cried for help just as the Cosovo cried for help, Croatia cried for help, Bosnia cried for help and NATO got together and bombed the hell out of the Serbs.....NOBODY HELPED THE EASTERN UKRAINIANS......So... they started crying in the EASTERN direction since the WESTERN direction would not come and save them from being murdered and plundered by their own countrymen (AND these very countrymen were declared to be NAZI's by the US Gov't back in 2008 as they proposed and passed a bill in Congress to NO LONGER finance them in Kiev).....
Putin did what they asked him to do, COME OVER THE BORDER AND SAVE THEM......he did not plan to INVADE and conquer (like America in Iraq, Afghanistan OR VIETNAM) he came to protect those who asked him to do so....
read up on the true beginnings of the CRAP started by obummer, carried by bidump, nuland and many other so-called patriotic politicians in DC/DS....
You cannot just point the vicious / guilty finger at Putin but not at Bush I, Bush II, Obama/killery/bidump also.
The invasion of Iraq...without an official DECLARATION OF WAR against them BY CONGRESS---was illegal.
The invasion of Afghanistan also. The bombing of Serbia also. The destruction of Lybia/ Ghadaffi also.
NObody is innocent in any case and nobody has the right to point any fingers in any direction.
Live free from the propaganda!!!! Gary

 

[tmttactical]

Quote Proud Prepper: I don't have the time to explain it to you. It's not really important. I'll sum it up. Russia will not expand into Europe, unless it's a necessity to there defense. They just wish to be left alone.

Nobody forced Russia to invade. They chose to become involved. Since you failed to answer any of my questions and chose to use the limp wrist approach of not having the time to explain, I will mark you down as not having an answer to my questions.

Quote Garp58: I am sorry to defer. PUTIN WAS INVITED INTO THE CRIMEA.......The eastern Ukrainians who were being killed (14,000 in about 8 years) cried for help just as the Cosovo cried for help, Croatia cried for help, Bosnia cried for help and NATO got together and bombed the hell out of the Serbs.....NOBODY HELPED THE EASTERN UKRAINIANS.

Major difference the Ukrainian government did not ask Russia to invade, the Ukrainian rebels asked Russia for help. As for the United Nations, they are a complete joke and the biggest waste of money.14,000 Ukrainians died in 8 years before Russia invaded. After Russia invaded how many Ukrainians have died? Still nobody has answered the questions. Who has benefited from Russia invading the Ukraine? Who gave Russian the right to force another nation to become a "Buffer Nation"? At least Garp58 has tried to explain why Russia invaded. Has anybody every noticed that the world powers always have a problem with the perceived weaker nations? If the Western Nations are the villain's, why don't these Super Power nations declare war against their perceived foe's? Every bully nation, America included, can and will find a reason to attack those nations that don't toe the party line, if they are weaker opponents. It is always the military and civilians that suffer the losses. The people in charge rant and rave but never suffer to consequences. I don't care how bad a government is, that is the problem of the people to deal with, just like it is here in America. We may have to take up arms in an attempt to fix our problems but I do not and will not support any foreign nations coming into help fix us. Pointing fingers at America and saying they did it, so we can too is schoolyard tactics. America has done a lot of very stupid things but that does not excuse Putin and Russia from their stupid invasion.

Here is the bottom line. Putin was convinced he could invade and defeat Ukraine within weeks and have his "Buffer State". What I don't know or can prove is why Putin believed he could win the invasion in such a short time frame. Was he mislead by his own administration? Was he suckered into invading by the West? Did the west deliberately entice Putin to invade by not taking more action after he invaded the Chimera? Lots of questions but none of them have anything to do with justification of the invasion. Mexico brings in illegal drugs that kill thousands of Americans every year. China makes the drugs that Mexico smuggles in. America know this and can prove it but America has not declared war on Mexico or China. Nations go to war after they evaluate the gain / loss factor. America does not go to war with Mexico or China because there is not profit in it. Russia did not go to war with the Ukraine until the government changed course and they thought they could win a quick war and gain a buffer state and improve their economy. They guessed wrong. Now we all are paying the price. I don't care if Hitler was running the Ukraine, as long as he did not invade any other countries. That was the problem for the Ukrainians.

Now for the next phase of thought. What lay ahead for the Ukraine and Russia? If Russia does win and the west stops providing massive open military aid, Russia is going to be faced with huge rebuilding costs and a guerilla war. Of course the Ukraine leaders will be given sanctuary and will be able to keep a war going for decades. Now god forbid, Ukraine forces Russia to leave, then more and more predatorial nations start looking at Russia for their next meal. Russia needs to declare victory, move back within Russian borders and stop the madness from escalating. There re no good guys or bad guys, just stupid and more stupid people. Every war has clear winners and it is not the people fighting it.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

In fact it dosn't matter who eat the other ones candy.

Fact is we're so close to the next world war like 1939.
Fact is - delivery weapons and ammo don't force peace.
Fact is - when you invite only ONE side to negotations about an endig of an war it wouldn't help. Just not inviting the other side is not an diplomatic way - it's just kindergarden of political leaders.
Fact is - it does not look as the West seriously wanna talk about peace.
Fact is - the USA, EU and the NATO provocate an WW3 with all power they have. The only thing the West dosn't have are balls. If - then they almost would send an missile to Moscow. But it dosn't look good in history chronicel. Especially for Germany, for them it would be the 3rd time they are in the "starter crew" in 3 World Wars.

However, i'm bored to hear or read how good and peacefull the western nations are and how bad and criminal all other countries are.
To the West i can only say: We're going to loose in any case. Economical we lost in Europe already to "protect" and support one of the most corrupt countries on western hemisphere. And the worldwide political power is damaged like never before, in fact it's almost history too.

And in all this western arrogance about beeing the world leaders nibody sees really - or don't wanna see it - in meantime the BRICS states are more powerfull than the western alliance.
BTW - if the NATO attacs Russia the West will be history. Don't forget China or all the Arabic Countries who have still open bills with the USA or Europe.

So, stop to discuss who has stolen the other ones jelly bears or who is the innocent! Guilty are all involved parties!

 

[tmttactical]

Gary, you have stated the problem correctly. No country is the good guy. Not the west and not any other country. They are all jackals waiting for the right moment to attack. TPTB do not want a strong, stable world. They want world wide conflict. Gary is also correct that the west does not want this war to end and fights it in a cowardly manner. The west wants to drain Russia finances, manpower and equipment. No nation, including Russia is safe. China is watching and waiting on the side lines. China is busy building it's military and is stockpiling all it's ammo and missiles. The Ukraine is losing everything and will gain nothing in the end. The west is not the world savior, it is just one more jackal waiting for an opportunity to strike, America was not designated the guardian of the world. That is a self imposed label that nobody else wants or believes. The United Nations is simply a money pool that does nothing worthwhile. It cannot force nations to respect other nations borders. It cannot even pass or condemn a major nation verbally, without permission from all the big boys at the table. What a financial joke. That is why I say that Russia must wake up and quit playing the dupe. They need to declare they have driven all the Nazis from the Ukraine. Pull back their troops and let the Ukraine deal with the after math. That approach would force the western nations into putting their resources into a more constructive direction or be labeled hypocrites. If the Ukrainian government is as bad as some claim, then it will collapse without a boogeyman to blame for it's trouble. The Ukraine has just become a live fire military testing ground. The war is also an excuse to ship tax fee grain and damage other nations farmers. I am willing to bet the Ukrainian farmers did not benefit from this deal but the middlemen got richer.

Russia is not the bad guy. The Ukraine is not the bad guy. Both are misused tools. Do I want Russia to go back home, you bet I do. Do I want more money poured into the Ukraine to rebuild , no I don't. Nations need to learn there is no benefit from warfare. No new territory to be gained. No financial support for harrowing their neighbors. Nations should be free to join whatever organization they believe best helps them. Be it NATO or BRICS. If all the authoritarian nations want to join BRICS, go for it. If all the Democratic / Republican nations want to join NATO. good for them. If the world was divided into just two side, then the fingers on the nuclear buttons would go away and the fighting would just be confined within each group. Will all war end, never, as long as humans control. We tend to be a greedy self serving species.

If the nations of the world lived like Gary, then we would all prosper, unfortunately they don't. No nation, America included, should benefit from invading another nation, no matter the perceived cause.

 

[user 7368]

Even if we are not of the same opinion on everything, which is also a good thing, a good Tip from me.

Prepare for a Nuclear War by all means, no matter where you live, just do it, because it will come.

 

[user 7368]

Gary, you have stated the problem correctly. No country is the good guy. Not the west and not any other country. They are all jackals waiting for the right moment to attack. TPTB do not want a strong, stable world. They want world wide conflict. Gary is also correct that the west does not want this war to end and fights it in a cowardly manner. The west wants to drain Russia finances, manpower and equipment. No nation, including Russia is safe. China is watching and waiting on the side lines. China is busy building it's military and is stockpiling all it's ammo and missiles. The Ukraine is losing everything and will gain nothing in the end. The west is not the world savior, it is just one more jackal waiting for an opportunity to strike, America was not designated the guardian of the world. That is a self imposed label that nobody else wants or believes. The United Nations is simply a money pool that does nothing worthwhile. It cannot force nations to respect other nations borders. It cannot even pass or condemn a major nation verbally, without permission from all the big boys at the table. What a financial joke. That is why I say that Russia must wake up and quit playing the dupe. They need to declare they have driven all the Nazis from the Ukraine. Pull back their troops and let the Ukraine deal with the after math. That approach would force the western nations into putting their resources into a more constructive direction or be labeled hypocrites. If the Ukrainian government is as bad as some claim, then it will collapse without a boogeyman to blame for it's trouble. The Ukraine has just become a live fire military testing ground. The war is also an excuse to ship tax fee grain and damage other nations farmers. I am willing to bet the Ukrainian farmers did not benefit from this deal but the middlemen got richer.

Russia is not the bad guy. The Ukraine is not the bad guy. Both are misused tools. Do I want Russia to go back home, you bet I do. Do I want more money poured into the Ukraine to rebuild , no I don't. Nations need to learn there is no benefit from warfare. No new territory to be gained. No financial support for harrowing their neighbors. Nations should be free to join whatever organization they believe best helps them. Be it NATO or BRICS. If all the authoritarian nations want to join BRICS, go for it. If all the Democratic / Republican nations want to join NATO. good for them. If the world was divided into just two side, then the fingers on the nuclear buttons would go away and the fighting would just be confined within each group. Will all war end, never, as long as humans control. We tend to be a greedy self serving species.

If the nations of the world lived like Gary, then we would all prosper, unfortunately they don't. No nation, America included, should benefit from invading another nation, no matter the perceived cause.

Thanks

 

[DrHenley]

Remember the non-Christian golden rule? He who has the gold makes the rule. China has been buying gold like crazy for decades. While the US stockpile is maybe non existent by now.

The price of gold has always been my barometer for reading the state of the world's economy. There are limits to how long they can suppress it, and it looks like that limit has been breached.

 

[DrHenley]

Dang, it's still going up: $2177!

 

[tmttactical]

Even if we are not of the same opinion on everything, which is also a good thing, a good Tip from me.

Prepare for a Nuclear War by all means, no matter where you live, just do it, because it will come.

I will have to differ from Ban1985.

I would not spend a single penny dedicated to surviving a nuclear war. Yes please do prep for everything short of a nuclear war. Three reasons for my opinion.

1) I don't think any nation / leader is stupid enough to start a worldwide nuclear war, so the special structures and equipment are wasted resources.

2) Even if you had the financial resources (millions), the proper location (away from any nuclear targets or nuclear power plants) you would not be able to survive a nuclear winter, lasting many years if not decades. Prep for EMP, prep for CMP, prep for social collapse and prep for economic collapse. Those are survivable. A nuclear winter is an extinction event.

3) Who would want to exist in nuclear wasteland, even if you were lucky enough to survive the nuclear winter?

 

[DrHenley]

If you can't survive the immediate aftermath of a nuclear event without extreme preparation like totally filtered air, radiation proof water and food supply, and radiation proof PPE, you probably won't survive long afterwards. And you probably will not want to anyhow.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

If you evaluate where the targets are, (40 miles away for me), prevailing winds,terrain, etc. You can make a plan for the fallout.
If it works, it works. If it doesn’t, you were going to be dead anyway. Just try to increase your odds.