450 in Florida ordered to give up their guns....

[Brent S]

I think you both brought up good points, and never got rude doing so. Extra brownie points on that...
As far as never touching gun laws from fear of loosing the 2nd amnedant, something needs to be done to stop all the mass shootings. If not more restrictive gun laws then what? Iceland is a pro gun culture yet it has extremely low gun violence. It also has a rigorous program to get a gun. The people are evaluated, trained in both proficiency and safety, even interviewed by the local sheriff. Yes, it’s a pain in the ass to get a gun there, but still legal and popular to do. It does however seem to work with getting nut cases from getting guns.
Another point I think is worth mentioning is resale of guns. I believe you are allowed to private sale a gun here to an individual with no paperwork. That is nuts to me. I think they should all be accounted for for life. Of course that wouldn’t stop stolen ones from the black market, but it would require a background check on all gun purchases.

 

[Roninsensei]

Our second amendment was put in place to stop government. I have problem with any oversite by government. Period.

 

[Mountain trapper]

The problem here is the anti gun groups will never stop. They will always demand more restrictions. And of course some so-called second admendment supporters always say that "something has to be done", so they are fine with allowing our Rights to be chipped away. Bit by bit.
I'm more interested in supporting and preserving our Constitutional rights than rolling over and giving in to a "feel good" measure that we all know will do nothing to stop evil people from doing bad things.
This is why we should never ever register any firearm. Registration always leads to confiscation, always.
The simple fact here is that we cannot, and should not, punish people, or deprive someone of their property or Constitutional Rights before a crime has been commited. Where would it stop? Answer; it wouldn't. A law like this will always be expanded.

 

[DrHenley]

The gun laws in the U.S. are so screwed up I think that while Republicans hold Congress, they should repeal everything back to the '34 NFA and start over from scratch. I mean...In what kind of a F'd up crazy world does it make sense that THIS is legal:

And THIS is illegal?

 

[brandx]

This is a very slippery slope. As Brent said, who decides this? I'd wager nearly every one of here on this forum would be considered a danger. Mainly to an overbearing gov't, but don't worry, they'll include that soon enough... and urbanprep makes a good point about this helping to keep a polite society.

AND exactly how does one provide a burden of proof of not being a danger to anyone and gain their ammo and guns back. Well the individual has to pay someone to evaluate them and hire an attorney, money , money, money. I would just forget it and go black market. The law will make law a biding people criminals. No judge is going to give back thousands of rounds of ammo and a dozen guns to anyone. Even though they should in most cases. If there were 450 people who were dangerous, they will be dangerous without guns too. DA's.

 

[brandx]

I'm playing devil's advocate here...and just you know, I have a large gun collection (including some 'black guns') and I support the 2nd Ammendment...but did you guys see why they took Smith's guns?

He took his Glock, and shot several rounds through the rear window of a car at a friend of his...over an altercation about a cell phone.

He had threatened people with guns over stupid reasons, and he was charged with attempted murder.

I know people here believe in the slippery slope idea, but I see the slippery slope as a logical fallacy simply because I believe in grey areas and a healthy middle ground.

This a---hole didn't need to own any guns given his violent history, and I'm glad the cops took them away.

Now as for the other 400-odd confiscations, I have no opinion since I didn't look into them.

It just makes sense that if you are charged with murder or attempted murder you don't get to keep your guns. That is just common sense,but if you have a clinical depression diagnosis and talked to your sister about your feelings, you may talk about how you felt at your lowest, maybe about suicide, not that you would do it, but maybe you just talked about it, she can petition the court to have your guns removed and it would happen according to how this law is written.

 

[brandx]

If they area danger to themselves, how does removing the gun stop the suicide? Knives, BBQ in a closed up house, sleeping pills, etc. Again government BS. Now if they are clinically diagnosed, why are they not in an institution? Did the gun hating liberal doctor perform the diagnosis? If they are a danger to themselves or other, take them into custody, place them into a hospital and provide them with a patient advocate and evaluate their mental condition --- per medical procedure and protections. This confiscation law is just a back door attack an gun owners. There are legal methods to place a person in a mandatory 72 hour hold for evaluation. You don't a special panel and hand picked judges to lock down somebody that is a danger to themselves or others.

THIS NEW LAW IS bsflag!!!!!

I see it as government intrusion. You can't take care of yourself so the government will. BS. I don't like suicide, but I don't think it should be illegal either. The government needs to stay out of it.

 

[brandx]

Anyone remember a movie where it was in the future and people were arrested for crimes that had not taken place yet? What was that?

 

[Kevin L]

It just makes sense that if you are charged with murder or attempted murder you don't get to keep your guns. That is just common sense,but if you have a clinical depression diagnosis and talked to your sister about your feelings, you may talk about how you felt at your lowest, maybe about suicide, not that you would do it, but maybe you just talked about it, she can petition the court to have your guns removed and it would happen according to how this law is written.

Guys...just because I believe that the slippery slope is a fallacy doesn't mean that I neccesarily believe in these laws in the way they are written.

All I've said is that I'm open-minded...which isn't the same thing as saying that I accept things uncritically.

An aspect about the law that frightens me (which no one has brought up) is wondering what happens if someone goes to a psychologist or psychiatrist in good faith because they may be having problems, and the shrink--as a knee-jerk reaction--gets the law involved to deprive people of their guns?

Many people have guns as part of their livelihood. Ranchers, farmers, private security, even store owners.

Are people going to go without treatment because they're afraid that their jobs and businesses' will be impacted?

Maybe this situation--if you run the statistics--might actually contribute to more mass shootings because people will avoid getting help when things are going wrong in their lives...which migh allow a simple problem to balloon into something worse.

So, I get that this law may (and probably will) be abused, but that doesn't mean that it won't save some lives.

I have a different perspective on some things because I was a paramedic for well over a decade before I got hurt, and I've responded to mass shootings...although this was in Miami at the tail end of the Cocaine Wars, and mass shootings were about business disputes rather than the work of a crazy psychopath.

I can see why people in Parkland, Columbine, and Sandyhook feel the way that they do because something like this changes you when it happens in your own back yard, and you're never the same.

I may not agree with them, but I'm very sympathetic and I will listen (with an open mind) to what they have to say.

 

[Brent S]

Anyone remember a movie where it was in the future and people were arrested for crimes that had not taken place yet? What was that?

Something with Tom cruise....

 

[Brent S]

I don’t have any solid answers either here. I am glad it’s being debated though as there is a real problem when school shootings keep happening. Still hoping for a good solution to come from someone. Doing nothing is as bad as total gun confiscation in my opinion. There should be a middle ground. As far as the existing gun laws, they should probably be scrapped and completely re worked as they aren’t effective either. I am not about to give up my rights to be able to defend myself, but want my kids and grandkids to feel safe at concerts and school....

 

[Kevin L]

Something with Tom cruise....

Minority Report.

I believe it was based on a science fiction work by a genius named Phillip K. Dick.

 

[brandx]

Minority Report (2002) - IMDb
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689
Jun 21, 2002 · Watch video · The big idea for Minority Report is based on a short story by the venerable Philip K. Dick. In this future, there is a "pre-crime" unit in the police force, which revolves around three psychics who are able to see violent crimes before they occur. These visions are projected in a flat screen panel and manipulated by detectives with the grace of …

 

[Gazrok]

The problem here, is going to be how VAGUE the law is on determining who needs to have guns removed. It's a slippery slope, and needs to be better defined....BEFORE you start trampling on peoples' rights.

 

[Maverick]

The problem is the 2A is not afforded the same rights as the rest, it is treated as a privilege and NOT a right of the People. This is done through fallacy of the law! Politicians and the court systems use logical fallacy all the time to degrade the Second Amendment then the media would use either formal or informal fallacy in describing the logic to its viewers or readers, it’s done everyday in the media, but most people are too damn stupid and lazy to do the research them self’s.

 

[Kevin L]

The problem is the 2A is not afforded the same rights as the rest, it is treated as a privilege and NOT a right of the People. This is done through fallacy of the law! Politicians and the court systems use logical fallacy all the time to degrade the Second Amendment then the media would use either formal or informal fallacy in describing the logic to its viewers or readers, it’s done everyday in the media, but most people are too damn stupid and lazy to do the research them self’s.

Of course people are too stupid and lazy to think for themselves.

That's what corrupt politicians want!

Critical thinking takes work.

 

[tmttactical]

Want to stop mass shooting (not drug turf battles) look for a common denominator. They happen to people in "GUN FREE ZONES". They don't happen at the shooting range where everybody is armed. They don't happen in gun stores. Now to the other aspect, make the punishment fit the crime. Mass murder is horrific, so maybe burning at stake would be a good punishment. Forget the tool, go after the tool user. Rural kids used bring their guns to school, no mass shooting back then, why not? Other kids were armed, teachers may have been armed and justice was swift and severe. Funny how that works.

 

[Psalm7]

This will lead to Government abuse . If Someone is bad enough to deny them Their 2nd Amendment rights then They should be under surveillance or arrested. Im sure We all have known People that shouldn't have any kind of weapon . Thats when We , their Family , LEO should be pressuring that Person to get better and or disarm . Its when We don't that We have horrific crimes. Like allways when interviewed after the fact People that know the Gargoyle and LEO will admit They knew something bad was going to happen .

 

[Mountain trapper]

So many people want a "magic wand" approach to this issue. Many think that if we just pass some more "common sense" gun laws that we'll all be magically saved, the quick fix-it approach. Maybe these same people don't realize that we have something like 20,000+ gun laws on the books now. Plus it's ALREADY illegal to take a weapon of any sort and kill a bunch of people!!
I haven't heard a single person suggest that we look at possible root causes to solve these problems. We've got a couple generations of people who have grown up on violent and graphic movies and television, graphic "music" lyrics, violent music videos and videogames. Guns have been glamourized in movies, tv and videogames for several decades and have been shown to solve all problems. Now add in the sucesss of government schools in dumbing down education, government brainwashing, parents that don't get involved in their childrens lives and we have the perfect combination that leads up to what we're seeing today.
Anybody who thinks that another silly law, plus the erosion of our Constitutional Rights, will do anything to solve gun violence is only fooling themselves.

 

[Psalm7]

There's always been violent entertainment . And some people have had front row seats to open warfare .
I think alot has to do with progressive parenting .

 

[Mountain trapper]

There's always been violent entertainment . And some people have had front row seats to open warfare .
I think alot has to do with progressive parenting .

There has never been (in modern history) violent "entertainment" of the likes that we're seeing today. There also isn't any doubt that bad parenting has a lot to do with these issues.

 

[brandx]

So many people want a "magic wand" approach to this issue. Many think that if we just pass some more "common sense" gun laws that we'll all be magically saved, the quick fix-it approach. Maybe these same people don't realize that we have something like 20,000+ gun laws on the books now. Plus it's ALREADY illegal to take a weapon of any sort and kill a bunch of people!!
I haven't heard a single person suggest that we look at possible root causes to solve these problems. We've got a couple generations of people who have grown up on violent and graphic movies and television, graphic "music" lyrics, violent music videos and videogames. Guns have been glamourized in movies, tv and videogames for several decades and have been shown to solve all problems. Now add in the sucesss of government schools in dumbing down education, government brainwashing, parents that don't get involved in their childrens lives and we have the perfect combination that leads up to what we're seeing today.
Anybody who thinks that another silly law, plus the erosion of our Constitutional Rights, will do anything to solve gun violence is only fooling themselves.

I believe that moral deterioration is taking place all over the world. The lack of moral behavior leads to every kind of evil you can imagine. Lack of responsibility for self and to others, lack of parenting, self-centeredness, theft, murder, you name it. This is predicted and expected, it will not reverse, this is the devils world and thank goodness I'm just a passin' through.

 

[brandx]

There has never been (in modern history) violent "entertainment" of the likes that we're seeing today. There also isn't any doubt that bad parenting has a lot to do with these issues.

Not only the amount of violence depicted for the availability of it to the masses, proliferation and ease of access. I knew of one family that did not have a television for that very reason, there was nothing on the television that would add to their lives in a positive way. I know I could live without it, I can get news and weather reports from the radio. I think most television shows are stupid and tiresome, and commercials drive me crazy, I hate them. I would rather read or do something productive. Watching TV is the opposite of being industrious. It is really for when you are too tired or sick to do anything else. Last night I had TV on and just couldn't stay on one channel for more than 10 minutes. I did watch a bit of Sicario this week but missed a lot because I was up and doing things during commercials. Once and awhile there will be a good program. I miss Homestead Rescue though.