anybody monitoring russias movements?

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Thank you friend, that is proof of a small contingent of solders (70+ ?) probably helping the East Ukraine rebels in Donbass or other places, but hardly a Russian Army batallion? And Putin has always admitted that there are groups of "volunteers" helping the East Ukraine (rebels??) defending their own towns and under attack of Ukraine Kiev army??
I think that once Putin makes a move to invade he will be in Kiev within a week and Nato will run??
Ukraine is still in Civil War status, not under occupation forces?? Hope you and your family stay safe ??
 


The prisoners.
All that remains of the Intelligence battles Snortling 331 Regiment 98 Airborne Division
 

Pskov paratroopers lost one battle 234 fighter. After that, they refused to fight "- into the hands of Ukrainian journalists were secret maps of the General Staff of the Russian Federation. VIDEOS
In the hands of the Ukrainian journalists were secret documents and maps of the General Staff of the Russian Army, which show that the Ukrainian units resist the strong Russian forces.
For yet without translation ... But they show the documents seized from Russian
 
Blackwater killers that were paid to shoot innocent demonstrators

Hmm, Blackwater disbanded in 2008/09 due to negative press and lawsuits making your news source inaccurate, the similar group today is Academi, with you or your source using Blackwater proves that someone is using a name to provoke anger not proof given that Blackwater has been history for 7yrs! I find it strikingly funny you on a island in the Pacific telling a gentleman in the Ukraine how it is in the Ukraine, Joe, you spend too much time on the internet.

Academi, most of the photos of the purported so-called Academi mercs being in the Ukraine have originated from russia feeding a frenzy on most alternative news sources so take it for what it is!
 
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Russkies finnally come across the border for real??
Where is your satelite records... SHOW THE PROOF !!!!!!!

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oh you putinistas..you print what you are told to print ;)
try..at least try to get your history straight,as Mav pointed out blackwater hasn't been around for a while..someone seems to be very eager to say there are a nazi-conspirancy to take over the world,incl a jewish one...really,don't think they would team up,last time nazis did their best to kill a few...but still the only so-called government that is supporting far-right and ultra-national dudes in Europe,well that scumbag sits in kremlin.
 
Blackwater has changed its name several times in the past and even the leadership has changed, but it is still the same organisation committing crimes all around the world?
 
The Mess that Nuland Made
July 13, 2015 Part one


Exclusive: Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s “regime change” in early 2014 without weighing the likely chaos and consequences. Now, as neo-Nazis turn their guns on the government, it’s hard to see how anyone can clean up the mess that Nuland made, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

As the Ukrainian army squares off against ultra-right and neo-Nazi militias in the west and violence against ethnic Russians continues in the east, the obvious folly of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy has come into focus even for many who tried to ignore the facts, or what you might call “the mess that Victoria Nuland made.”

Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs “Toria” Nuland was the “mastermind” behind the Feb. 22, 2014 “regime change” in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible U.S. mainstream media that the coup wasn’t really a coup but a victory for “democracy.”


Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland, who pushed for the Ukraine coup and helped pick the post-coup leaders.

To sell this latest neocon-driven “regime change” to the American people, the ugliness of the coup-makers had to be systematically airbrushed, particularly the key role of neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists from the Right Sektor. For the U.S.-organized propaganda campaign to work, the coup-makers had to wear white hats, not brown shirts.

So, for nearly a year and a half, the West’s mainstream media, especially The New York Times and The Washington Post, twisted their reporting into all kinds of contortions to avoid telling their readers that the new regime in Kiev was permeated by and dependent on neo-Nazi fighters and Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who wanted a pure-blood Ukraine, without ethnic Russians.

Any mention of that sordid reality was deemed “Russian propaganda” and anyone who spoke this inconvenient truth was a “stooge of Moscow.” It wasn’t until July 7 that the Times admittedthe importance of the neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists in waging war against ethnic Russian rebels in the east. The Times also reported that these far-right forces had been joined by Islamic militants. Some of those jihadists have been called “brothers” of the hyper-brutal Islamic State.

Though the Times sought to spin this remarkable military alliance – neo-Nazi militias and Islamic jihadists – as a positive, the reality had to be jarring for readers who had bought into the Western propaganda about noble “pro-democracy” forces resisting evil “Russian aggression.”

Perhaps the Times sensed that it could no longer keep the lid on the troubling truth in Ukraine. For weeks, the Right Sektor militias and the neo-Nazi Azov battalion have been warning the civilian government in Kiev that they might turn on it and create a new order more to their liking.

Clashes in the West

Then, on Saturday, violent clashes broke out in the western Ukrainian town of Mukachevo, allegedly over the control of cigarette-smuggling routes. Right Sektor paramilitaries sprayed police officers with bullets from a belt-fed machinegun, and police – backed by Ukrainian government troops – returned fire. Several deaths and multiple injuries were reported.

Tensions escalated on Monday with President Petro Poroshenko ordering national security forces to disarm “armed cells” of political movements. Meanwhile, the Right Sektor dispatched reinforcements to the area while other militiamen converged on the capital of Kiev.

While President Poroshenko and Right Sektor leader Dmitry Yarosh may succeed in tamping down this latest flare-up of hostilities, they may be only postponing the inevitable: a conflict between the U.S.-backed authorities in Kiev and the neo-Nazis and other right-wing fighters who spearheaded last year’s coup and have been at the front lines of the fighting against ethnic Russian rebels in the east.

The Ukrainian right-wing extremists feel they have carried the heaviest burden in the war against the ethnic Russians and resent the politicians living in the relative safety and comfort of Kiev. In March, Poroshenko also fired thuggish oligarch Igor Kolomoisky as governor of the southeastern province of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast. Kolomoisky had been the primary benefactor of the Right Sektor militias.

So, as has become apparent across Europe and even in Washington, the Ukraine crisis is spinning out of control, making the State Department’s preferred narrative of the conflict – that it’s all Russian President Vladimir Putin’s fault – harder and harder to sell.

How Ukraine is supposed to pull itself out of what looks like a death spiral – a possible two-front war in the east and the west along with a crashing economy – is hard to comprehend. The European Union, confronting budgetary crises over Greece and other EU members, has little money or patience for Ukraine, its neo-Nazis and its socio-political chaos.

America’s neocons at The Washington Post and elsewhere still rant about the need for the Obama administration to sink more billions upon billions of dollars into post-coup Ukraine because it “shares our values.” But that argument, too, is collapsing as Americans see the heart of a racist nationalism beating inside Ukraine’s new order.
 
Part two;

Another Neocon ‘Regime Change’

Much of what has happened, of course, was predictable and indeed was predicted, but neocon Nuland couldn’t resist the temptation to pull off a “regime change” that she could call her own.

Her husband (and arch-neocon) Robert Kagan had co-founded the Project for the New American Century in 1998 around a demand for “regime change” in Iraq, a project that was accomplished in 2003 with President George W. Bush’s invasion.

As with Nuland in Ukraine, Kagan and his fellow neocons thought they could engineer an easy invasion of Iraq, oust Saddam Hussein and install some hand-picked client – in Iraq, Ahmed Chalabi was to be “the guy.” But they failed to take into account the harsh realities of Iraq, such as the fissures between Sunnis and Shiites, exposed by the U.S.-led invasion and occupation.

In Ukraine, Nuland and her neocon and liberal-interventionist friends saw the chance to poke Putin in the eye by encouraging violent protests to overthrow Russia-friendly President Yanukovych and put in place a new regime hostile to Moscow.

Carl Gershman, the neocon president of the U.S.-taxpayer-funded National Endowment for Democracy, explained the plan in a Post op-ed on Sept. 26, 2013. Gershman called Ukraine “the biggest prize” and an important interim step toward toppling Putin, who “may find himself on the losing end not just in the near abroad but within Russia itself.”

For her part, Nuland passed out cookies to anti-Yanukovych demonstrators at the Maidan square, reminded Ukrainian business leaders that the U.S. had invested $5 billion in their “European aspirations,” declared “**** the EU” for its less aggressive approach, and discussed with U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt who the new leaders of Ukraine should be. “Yats is the guy,” she said, referring to Arseniy Yatsenyuk.

Nuland saw her big chance on Feb. 20, 2014, when a mysterious sniper – apparently firing from a building controlled by the Right Sektor – shot and killed both police and protesters, escalating the crisis. On Feb. 21, in a desperate bid to avert more violence, Yanukovych agreed to a European-guaranteed plan in which he accepted reduced powers and called for early elections so he could be voted out of office.

But that wasn’t enough for the anti-Yanukovych forces who – led by Right Sektor and neo-Nazi militias – overran government buildings on Feb. 22, forcing Yanukovych and many of his officials to flee for their lives. With armed thugs patrolling the corridors of power, the final path to “regime change” was clear.

Instead of trying to salvage the Feb. 21 agreement, Nuland and European officials arranged for an unconstitutional procedure to strip Yanukovych of the presidency and declared the new regime “legitimate.” Nuland’s “guy” – Yatsenyuk – became prime minister.

While Nuland and her neocon cohorts celebrated, their “regime change” prompted an obvious reaction from Putin, who recognized the strategic threat that this hostile new regime posed to the historic Russian naval base at Sevastopol in Crimea. On Feb. 23, he began to take steps to protect those Russian interests.

Ethnic Hatreds

What the coup also did was revive long pent-up antagonisms between the ethnic Ukrainians in the west, including elements that had supported Adolf Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union during World War Two, and ethnic Russians in the south and east who feared the anti-Russian sentiments emanating from Kiev.

First, in Crimea and then in the so-called Donbas region, these ethnic Russians, who had been Yanukovych’s political base, resisted what they viewed as the illegitimate overthrow of their elected president. Both areas held referenda seeking separation from Ukraine, a move that Russia accepted in Crimea but resisted with the Donbas.

However, when the Kiev regime announced an “anti-terrorism operation” against the Donbas and dispatched neo-Nazi and other extremist militias to be the tip of the spear, Moscow began quietly assisting the embattled ethnic Russian rebels, a move that Nuland, the Obama administration and the mainstream news media called “Russian aggression.”

Amid the Western hysteria over Russia’s supposedly “imperial designs” and the thorough demonizing of Putin, President Barack Obama essentially authorized a new Cold War against Russia, reflected now in new U.S. strategic planning that could cost the U.S. taxpayers trillions of dollars and risk a possible nuclear confrontation.

Yet, despite the extraordinary costs and dangers, Nuland failed to appreciate the practical on-the-ground realities, much as her husband and other neocons did in Iraq. While Nuland got her hand-picked client Yatsenyuk installed and he did oversee a U.S.-demanded “neo-liberal” economic plan – slashing pensions, heating assistance and other social programs – the chaos that her “regime change” unleashed transformed Ukraine into a financial black hole.

With few prospects for a clear-cut victory over the ethnic Russian resistance in the east – and with the neo-Nazi/Islamist militias increasingly restless over the stalemate – the chances to restore any meaningful sense of order in the country appear remote. Unemployment is soaring and the government is essentially bankrupt.

The last best hope for some stability may have been the Minsk-2 agreement in February 2015, calling for a federalized system to give the Donbas more autonomy, but Nuland’s Prime Minister Yatsenyuk sabotaged the deal in March by inserting a poison pill that essentially demanded that the ethnic Russian rebels first surrender.

Now, the Ukraine chaos threatens to spiral even further out of control with the neo-Nazis and other right-wing militias – supplied with a bounty weapons to kill ethnic Russians in the east – turning on the political leadership in Kiev.

In other words, the neocons have struck again, dreaming up a “regime change” scheme that ignored practical realities, such as ethnic and religious fissures. Then, as the blood flowed and the suffering worsened, the neocons just sought out someone else to blame.

Thus, it seems unlikely that Nuland, regarded by some in Washington as the new “star” in U.S. foreign policy, will be fired for her dangerous incompetence, just as most neocons who authored the Iraq disaster remain “respected” experts employed by major think tanks, given prized space on op-ed pages, and consulted at the highest levels of the U.S. government
 
Comments;

Abbybwood
July 13, 2015 at 11:34 pm
Nevermind Nuland and her Neocon husband Robert Kagan (although they are the prime foot-soldiers in all of this).

I say lay this mess on the doorstep of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton:

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/how-...-ukraine-and-provoking-war-with-russia_032015

Hillary Clinton must be made to OWN this travesty against the innocent civilians of Ukraine along with Barack Obama.

Hillary has a long track record of bringing havoc and death to not just Ukraine but also to Libya which is now a failed state teaming with ISIS and other terrorists!

All Hillary wants to yack about now is more B.S. related to the U.S. economy, the gay issue, abortion rights, equal pay blah, blah, blah.

But when the subject of foreign affairs finally comes up (and it will), she will be hard pressed to defend her pathetic record.

And don’t get me started about her disgusting record of cozying up to Bibi and her main financial backer, Haim “My first concern is Israel” Saban.

She is nothing but a bloody tool of U.S. imperialism with Israel as her prime focus.

Shame on any American who supports her to be our president!

Just thinking of having her in control of the U.S. nuclear arsenal makes me cringe! Especially when she considers Putin to be a “Hitler”.

------------------------

Personally I think the americans are stupid enough to try and vote for Hillary, wich will most likely for the USA to be finished as a country? The ONLY chance US has is o vote for TRUMP to get the country back on track, get all militairy back from ALL the Warzones they are fighting in and FIX their own country, culture and infratructure!!!

Joe L.
July 14, 2015 at 11:00 am
As a Canadian, I have to ask how anyone can vote for either the Republicans or Democrats knowing full well that both of the parties are full of warmongers and overall liars. I mean Hillary Clinton made a joke when Gaddafi was murdered something to the effect of “We came, we saw, he died” – ha, ha, ha! Then when it comes to Bush saying that he fully supported what his brother did knowing full well of all of the lies used to go to war with Iraq. Meanwhile much of the US government is still filled with people that voted for the Iraq War and countless other US “interventions” in the world. Both of these parties are bad, really bad. I know that the US has independent parties as well, isn’t it past time to vote for one these? By the way, your vote is your own and it is never “wasted” as the propaganda from the major US parties would have you believe

Joe L.
July 14, 2015 at 5:30 pm
Doc Hollywood, yeah I am always dumbfounded by the fact that the American people continue to vote for either of these parties knowing full well of the lies that “both” parties are guilty of. If the American people truly want to take back their democracy, they need to come out en-masse to vote for parties outside of the 2 party system. Even if there party did not win, if enough people did this then maybe the US government would start to listen to the American people rather then making corporations “people” and doing their bidding.

I almost sometimes wish that the people of the world could vote in the US election because more than any other government in the world, it will be the world that has to deal with the results of the US election in American Foreign Policy (such as the “perpetual” warfare that we are involved in today).

Chet Roman
July 13, 2015 at 6:42 pm
Why do we focus on the “little people” and not place the blame squarely on the person in charge? We were quite ready and willing to do that when the easily manipulated George W. Bush was president but journalists seem to shy away from placing the responsibility where it belongs, on Obama. The coup in Ukraine could not have happened without Obama’s approval. Appointment’s like that of an American and former State Department official to run Ukraine’s Finance Ministry or the appointment of the former U.S. puppet and PM of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili as Governor of Ukraine’s Odessa Oblast serve American interests and were surely approved by Obama. The manipulation of the oil prices by Saudi Arabia with U.S. support designed to hurt Russia and Iran were done with Obama’s approval

Obama enthusiastically supported the overthrow of Gaddafi, which created the unending chaos in the region. And the U.S. would have entered the Syrian war if not for the last minute reprieve from Putin.

Let’s face the truth, Obama is responsible for much of the chaos and irresponsible foreign policies we are currently experiencing and he should be held responsible.

Boris M Garsky
July 13, 2015 at 6:55 pm
If they cannot achieve their goal; they create chaos which allows them to duck into the shadows. There is no doubt that Kolomoiskii is the person that Nuland wants at the head of the government, her first choice, as I had said before, however, this choice would have been summarily rejected by the government and people. An appropriate appellation for him would be Mr. Corrupted. Porochenko is out of favors with Nuland; not tough enough to make those tough choices and now she wants him out. He still has the support of the military, albeit, a weak support, but the military understands what will become of them and the country should Kolomoiski prevail. Perhaps, Porochenko would request some assistance from the East Ukraine and Russia. A double front would be to his advantage.

Zachary Smith
July 13, 2015 at 7:30 pm
Yet, despite the extraordinary costs and dangers, Nuland failed to appreciate the practical on-the-ground realities, much as her husband and other neocons did in Iraq. While Nuland got her hand-picked client Yatsenyuk installed and he did oversee a U.S.-demanded “neo-liberal” economic plan – slashing pensions, heating assistance and other social programs – the chaos that her “regime change” unleashed transformed Ukraine into a financial black hole.

I must disagree with this. The neocons knew exactly what they wanted to do in Iraq. And Libya. And Syria. Creating and maintaining chaos was their goal from the outset.

A couple more thoughts: Nuland is Obama’s creature, and remains on the job. From this I conclude her work satisfies him.

Also, I suspect the neocons have more in mind for the Ukraine. A glance at a map shows a major gap on Russia’s border in “defenses” against Iranian missiles.

W. R. Knight
July 13, 2015 at 7:38 pm
It’s fairly obvious (to anyone except Nuland) that the right wing wanted to overthrow the democratically elected government and establish their own control over the country from the very beginning. In all likelihood, they saw the American intervention as a means to achieve their own ends and went along with the plan assuming that once the elected government was gone, they would have a free hand in gaining control themselves. It appears now that they have nearly reached their goal and will get there soon.

People like Nuland and her infamous husband are like chess players who can only see one move in front of them, don’t understand that for every action there is a reaction and are oblivious of the law of unintended consequences. Unfortunately, our government is populated with many such fools.
 
On the situation in Mukachevo:
A group of 10 soldiers of the right sector is hiding in the mountains. Parts of the army and the National Guard with combat experience have attracted for their detention openly sabotaging orders and predpinimayut this no action. Active steps taking only the police that feels right to hate sector ever since the Maidan but do not have the skills to combat operations in mountainous and wooded locality. The local population supports the fighters hiding right sector and provide them all possible assistance.
 
could anyone imagine removing the moderate putin. the hardliners would be salivating. remember the next most powerful people in russia after putin are the military hardliners. a week after putin was removed, kiev would be gone, right sector would be gone. ukraine would be under russian control. next would be syria, and the extermination of isis, and the rebuilding of assad and secular syria(it was the hollywood of the middle east, before the london alliance intervention). then payback to israel and saudi arabia for interfernce with russia gas deals with the gazans. security agreements with egypt to help control the suez canal. military bases in greece next, as payment for freeing the greeks from london, zuric bondage. then an explosion of chinese immigrants into the region to build brics infrastructure projects. that is if the hardliners don't nuke the us and seize europe, knowing full well the us and euriopean nukes can't penetrate russian plasma shields. russia would be untouched, but everyone would still die from radiation exposure covering the northern hemisphere. so lets remove the moderate diplomat, so a few wealthy individuals can make lots of money on weapons contracts. if everyone is dead what good is money though

Treason... arrest... trial... FIRING SQUAD!

With damning evidence, a disgust of American interference and a 85%+ Putin popularity rating, Red Square will be filled with rifled volunteers to do the noble deed.

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin would strategically allow this conspiracy to reach a great level, then bring it down and all involved before the world.

This could very well have the end result of the final consolidation of Putin's power by wiping out the last vestiges of oligarchs in Russia.

Its more fun to post from these people and articles, they express so much better the reality and comment on what they see and read in the media? I'm more involved myself with the China sea problems?
 
07.18.15 15:44 Putin has signed a decree on the "mobilization deployment"
Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree establishing the mobilization of manpower of the Armed Forces.


It is reported by Information and Analytical Center of the NSDC, reports Tsenzor.NET.

"July 17 of this year, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on the" mobilization deployment. "The resource is designed for the mobilization deployment of the Armed Forces, other troops, military formations and bodies, as well as the stockpiling of the Russian Armed Forces, Russian Foreign Intelligence Service Fund, the stock FSB of Russia. They intended to complete the connections, military units of the Russian Federation Armed Forces, other troops, military formations and bodies, as well as special units for the period of mobilization, to bring them in combat readiness and wartime. Reserve consists of mobilization of manpower and human resource mobilization, "- said in a statement.

Read also "Tsenzor.NET": The OSCE has recorded the arrival of armed men in the Donbas from Russia
"Create a mobilization manpower of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the period of the experiment on introduction of a new system of training and accumulation of mobilization of human resources", - stated in the decree. The Government of the Russian Federation and executive bodies of subjects of the Russian Federation ordered to ensure that activities related to the arrival of the Russians in the reserve, in reserve. As stated in the decree, "the mobilization of manpower are citizens of the Russian Armed Forces in the reserve and contract your stay in this reserve. The rest of the reserve forms a human resource mobilization."

"So, if you believe the document, Russia cares about the creation of new military units. And judging by the intensified fighting at the front of the East of Ukraine, to end the armed aggression against Ukraine, the Russian Federation in the near future, to put it mildly, is not going to" - said the Information Center of the NSDC. Source: http://censor.net.ua/n344421

Mobilization deployment of the Armed Forces - planned and pre-arranged transfer of troops (naval forces) on the organization and composition of the wartime to resupply them in a timely personnel, materiel doobespecheniem due to accumulated in peacetime and seizures of enterprises, organizations and citizens.
 
Well don't get a cramp in that middle finger, friend? I read that Finland is getting together a special army unit to first strike before toal mobilisation?? Maybe you want to provoke the bear and start off the war ??
 
wonder why we had to create the rapid responce force in the first place??? we,a nation of 5,6million provoke a war??? get your facts together,last time we was attacked by russia and they had all planned to occupy us,and as it seems that nothing had changed,well we are forced to create such a force as russia seems to ignore common sence and don't respect the bordes of its neighbors. that force is not for first strike,where did you get your info? pravda perhaps..:rolleyes:

as russia is the war-monger in Europe we have all the right to create whatever we want to keep us safe here,we don't need permision from you!
 
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First of all Russia is NOT the War monger here, its the US/UK/and some Nato countries syarting this ****.
And no you don't need Any permission from Anybody to defend yourself, being Not a Nato country !
And there is sertanly no reason to be agressive towards me, I'm just telling what I see and read, but since that is not apreciated let me go back to posting others thoughts next to mine?

U.S. Intelligence Officials Demand that Obama Release MH-17 Intel
MEMORANDUM FOR: The President
Part one

FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

SUBJECT: Releasing an Intelligence Report on Shoot-Down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

It has been a year since the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine, resulting in the death of 298 passengers and crew. The initial response by the U.S. government supported the contention that the likely perpetrators were anti-government forces in southeastern Ukraine (the customary media misnomer for them is “separatists”), and that they were possibly aided directly by Moscow.

On July 29, 2014, we Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) suggested that the United States Government report publicly what intelligence it actually had relating to the shoot-down lest the incident turn into another paroxysm of blaming Russia without cause. We are still waiting for that report.

Executive Summary

Tensions between the United States and Russia over Ukraine are fast reaching a danger point. A major contributing factor in the American public’s negative perception of Moscow is last year’s downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

A public report detailing the investigation of the incident by the Dutch Safety authorities is expected by October but the draft is reportedly already in the hands of the United States government. There is speculation that the report will dovetail with media and leaked government sources that have placed primary blame on the ethnic Russian Ukrainians in southeastern Ukraine opposed to the government put in place after the Western-engineered coup of Feb. 22, 2014, in Kiev.

As the relationship with Moscow is of critical importance, if only because Russia has the military might to destroy the U.S., careful calibration of the relationship is essential. If the United States signs on to a conclusion that implicates Russia without any solid intelligence to support that contention it will further damage an already fractious bilateral relationship, almost certainly unnecessarily. It is our opinion that a proper investigation of the downing would involve exploring every possibility to determine how the evidence holds up.

Currently, the only thing the American public and worldwide audiences know for sure is that the plane was shot down. But the shoot-down might have been accidental, carried out by any one of a number of parties. Or it might have been orchestrated by anti-government forces, with Moscow either conniving in some way in that action or not.
It is also possible that the downing was deliberately carried out by the Kiev government or one of Ukraine’s powerful oligarchs to implicate the anti-Kiev forces and Russia in this mass murder. And finally, though less likely, it might even be that based on the available intelligence it is impossible to determine who did it.

In light of the high stakes involved both in terms of our extremely important relationship with Russia as well as in establishing a trustworthy narrative that does credit to the White House, the failure of the Administration to issue a coordinated intelligence assessment summarizing what evidence exists to determine who was responsible is therefore puzzling. If the United States government knows who carried out the attack on the plane it should produce the evidence. If it does not know, it should say so.

In what follows, we former intelligence professionals with a cumulative total of some 360 years in various parts of U.S. intelligence provide our perspective on the issue and request for a second time that the intelligence over the downing be made public to counter the fuzzy and flimsy evidence that has over the past year been served up – some of it based on “social media.”


 
Part two;

The Russian Dimension

It would not be the first time for a tragic incident to be exploited for propaganda reasons with potentially grave consequences. We refer to the behavior of the Reagan administration in the immediate aftermath of the shoot-down of Korean Airlines Flight 007 over Siberia on August 30, 1983.

Hours after the tragic shoot-down on August 30, 1983, the Reagan administration used its very accomplished propaganda machine to manage a narrative emphasizing Soviet culpability for deliberately killing all 269 people aboard KAL-007 in full knowledge that it was a civilian airliner. In reality, the airliner had been shot down after it strayed hundreds of miles off course and penetrated Russia’s airspace over sensitive military facilities in Kamchatka and Sakhalin Island. The Soviet pilot tried to signal the plane to land, but the KAL pilots did not respond to the repeated warnings. Amid confusion about the plane’s identity – a U.S. spy plane had been in the vicinity hours earlier – Soviet ground control ordered the pilot to fire.

The Soviets soon realized they had made a horrendous mistake. U.S. intelligence also knew from sensitive intercepts that the tragedy had resulted from a blunder, not from a willful act of murder (much as on July 3, 1988, the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian civilian airliner over the Persian Gulf, killing 290 people, an act which President Ronald Reagan dismissively explained as an “understandable accident”).

The story of KAL-007 should come to mind when considering the fate of MH-17. There might be legitimate reasons for opposing the increasingly authoritarian government of President Vladimir Putin, but exploiting a tragedy does not equate to constructive statecraft for dealing with an adversary.

At a minimum, the White House and State Department one year ago displayed unseemly haste in deciding to be first out of the starting gate with a narrative implicating Russia, at least indirectly – a narrative that may not be based on fact. That twelve months have passed and there has been no effort made to either correct or amplify the record is unacceptable.

Someone Is Lying

Both Russia and Ukraine deny any active role in the MH-17 shoot down. So do the anti-coup forces in southeastern Ukraine. Someone knows something and is lying to conceal a role in the incident. From the U.S. perspective what happened needs to be clarified and become a matter of public record. No other nation has the resources that the U.S. had to come up with an evidence-based answer; and intelligence collection and analysis are the tools that must be used. The information released to date does not bear close scrutiny; it does not permit an informed judgment as to who is lying about the shoot-down of Flight 17.

One year ago today, National Intelligence Director James Clapper authorized a background briefing including some sketchy talking points in a very short “Government Assessment” for selected mainstream journalists. It was just five days after the shoot-down and two days after Secretary of State Kerry pointed the finger of blame at anti-coup Ukrainians and Russia. Understandably, corroboration was being sought.

Like Kerry’s presentations on the Sunday talk shows of July 20, 2014, however, much of the “Government Assessment” was derived from postings on “social media.” The July 22, 2014 briefing addressed, inconclusively, the key issue of who fired the Buk anti-aircraft missile widely believed to have downed the airliner on July 17, 2014.

No update to that five-day-after “Government Assessment” has been provided over the past year. Are we asked to believe that one year later the intelligence community still cannot adduce evidence that goes beyond insinuation regarding the Buk missile?

The July 22, 2014 briefing also suggested that the missile might have been fired by a Ukrainian “defector.” Has there been no clarification on that point? It is, frankly, very hard for us to believe that the U.S. intelligence community has been unable to expand its understanding of these key issues over the past year.

To be sure, there has long been a tendency in Washington to “fix the intelligence around the policy,” to quote the Downing Street memo relating to the inglorious start of the Iraq War. More recently, we note the claim repeatedly made by Secretary of State John Kerry on August 30, 2013, that “we know” the regime of Bashar al-Assad was responsible for the chemical incidents near Damascus nine days before.

In that case, Kerry also cited a “Government Assessment” to support his charges. We saw the introduction of this unique genre of “assessment,” instead of the normally required “Intelligence Assessment,” as evidence that honest intelligence analysts were refusing to go along with the preferred narrative. In fact, Kerry’s accusations turned out to have been based on false and even fabricated intelligence provided by opponents of the Syrian government.

Choosing to Reveal the Truth

If the White House has concrete, probative intelligence regarding MH-17, we strongly suggest that the time is right to approve it for release before the “blame Russia” narrative becomes completely dominant. The American people are perfectly capable of judging for themselves what took place but they need to have all the information presented without bias and without any attempt to evade unpleasant conclusions. And it should be done even given the risk of compromising “sources and methods,” as the broader issue of war or peace with Russia is something that should be of paramount concern to every American.

What is needed is an Interagency Intelligence Assessment – the mechanism used in the past to present significant findings. We are hearing indirectly from some of our former colleagues that the draft Dutch report contradicts some of the real intelligence that has been collected. Resorting to another “Government (not Intelligence) Assessment” to sidestep the accountability issue is not appropriate and is itself an insult to the integrity and professionalism of the intelligence community.

Mr. President, we believe you need to seek out honest intelligence analysts now and hear them out, particularly if they are challenging or even opposing the prevailing groupthink narrative. They might well convince you to take steps to deal more forthrightly with the shoot-down of MH-17 and minimize the risk that relations with Russia might degenerate into a replay of the Cold War with the threat of escalation into thermonuclear conflict. In all candor, we suspect that at least some of your advisers fail to appreciate the enormity of that danger.

The courtesy of a reply is requested.



For the Steering Group, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity
William Binney, former Technical Director, World Geopolitical & Military Analysis, NSA; co-founder, SIGINT Automation Research Center (ret.)

Thomas Drake, former Senior Executive, National Security Agency

Philip Giraldi, CIA, Operations Officer (ret.)

Matthew Hoh, former Capt., USMC, Iraq & Foreign Service Officer, Afghanistan (associate VIPS)

Larry Johnson, CIA & State Department (ret.)

John Kiriakou, Former CIA Counterterrorism Officer

Karen Kwiatkowski, former Lt. Col., US Air Force (ret.), at Office of Secretary of Defense watching the manufacture of lies on Iraq, 2001-2003

Edward Loomis, NSA, Cryptologic Computer Scientist (ret.)

David MacMichael, National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Ray McGovern, former US Army infantry/intelligence officer & CIA analyst (ret.)

Elizabeth Murray, Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Middle East (ret.)

Todd E. Pierce, MAJ, US Army Judge Advocate (Ret.)

Coleen Rowley, Division Counsel & Special Agent, FBI (ret.)

Peter Van Buren, US Department of State, Foreign Service Officer (ret.) (associate VIPS)
 
well,just continue to speak **** about my country and I respond accordingly,we wouldn't need to plan for anything if that big pile of crap east of me would respect its neighbors and borders,but no they don't respect,they are so brainwashed to belive that the current dick-head running the show there (who thinks he's the reincarnation of stalin) will make them great and build up the old sovjet.
 
Well all I know is ALL of this scares me. It seems that this all the world knows how to do: blame, lie, destroy, and fight. And sad to say a lot of innocent people on both sides are going to suffer the consequences for actions out of there control....I just pray for us all and for the world because the beginning of the end is near for all.
 
Iv quit replying to cavemans cut and past garbage he gets from some liberal idget . I would like to go "hunting" near the Russian border with Anaconda . I think my Remington 700 can shoot with his Steyer anyday .
Yes we are nearing the last day so read up , pray up , look up we are going up Im greatful to be a child of GOD . Part of my prepps is teaching the good news of Christ .
 
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what I find strange is that cavemans english,what he writes himself,not what he copypaste here..seems to deteriorate at an alarming rate..please note that I myself don't write this language as a native but even in my eyes,for someone with a phd in shrink things,to many mistakes..so I no longer belive he's what he claims to be..other than someone writing from Moscow or St.Petersburg...just my thoughts...

pls feel free to report to your superiors that we have alot of will to defend us here,we might not be ready to defend our politicians but we will defend our family,friends and this country Shoot
 

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