Anyone airgun?

[OldSchool]

Yessir, this Ain't the ol' Crosman 766..

Yep - IMO - Today's 'PCPs' are Well-worth the investment, and Definitely a 'viable Option' for hunting / defense, etc, once all the powder-burners / ammo / reloading-stockpiles, etc, run out...

jd

With that and the confidence (i.e. training and sighting in) I’d be fine with dropping a treed raccoon with a flashlight shining on it. And slim chance that anyone (my neighbors) would know, and if they did, I doubt they’d say anything.

 

[Haertig]

I’ve thought about the ineffectiveness of a typical air rifle to humanely take out a raccoon.

A good slingshot, with appropriate ammo and bands, would probably be much better. But it would require more practice. You'd have to be fairly close - hitting with a slingshot at distance is not easy to just "wing it". It takes practice.

Coons visit us on our back deck fairly frequently. Often times a family group of several of them. We have even had them in the house (they use the dog door). I came face to face with one - about 6 feet away - when I turned a corner and walked into our breakfast nook. The little bugger was standing on its hind legs reaching for the dog food storage can. Then two nights later, I ran into him inside again (I assume it was the same one). This time it was after bed, dark in the house, and I hit him with a high power flashlight beam from the top of the stairs. That surely blinded him, but he knew exactly where the dog door was to make a hasty escape. No scrambling whatsoever. He made a beeline for it, charged it head first at full speed, and out he went.

 

[OldSchool]

A good slingshot, with appropriate ammo and bands, would probably be much better. But it would require more practice. You'd have to be fairly close - hitting with a slingshot at distance is not easy to just "wing it". It takes practice.

Coons visit us on our back deck fairly frequently. Often times a family group of several of them. We have even had them in the house (they use the dog door). I came face to face with one - about 6 feet away - when I turned a corner and walked into our breakfast nook. The little bugger was standing on its hind legs reaching for the dog food storage can. Then two nights later, I ran into him inside again (I assume it was the same one). This time it was after bed, dark in the house, and I hit him with a high power flashlight beam from the top of the stairs. That surely blinded him, but he knew exactly where the dog door was to make a hasty escape. No scrambling whatsoever. He made a beeline for it, charged it head first at full speed, and out he went.

You have dogs and there wasn’t a fight ???
I’m adding that to the list of things that boggle my mind.

 

[Haertig]

You have dogs and there wasn’t a fight ???
I’m adding that to the list of things that boggle my mind.

No, the dogs were dead by that time. But the door was still operational. Now it's secured closed with a panel. We had left the door usable after the dogs died because it provided us with a way into the house in an emergency. We had a Newfoundland, and if you know the size of a Newfie, you understand how a human could easily go in one of their dog doors!

 

[OldSchool]

I have a birthday coming up and it’s been quiet awhile since I bought myself a decent Bday gift, so….

I’ve started doing some research. I found the Pyramyd and Airgun Megastore sites. The PCP’s are all new to me. I have more research and some decision making to do.

I’ll let ya what I decide on. $300 is my budget, so at this point I might just settle for 300 cans of tuna fish. And yes I’m serious.

 

[OldSchool]

Hmm… a PCP rifle with manual pump and good reviews:

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/gamo-arrow-pcp-rifle-pump-kit?m=5698#11505

$299.99

 

[Haertig]

Hmm… a PCP rifle with manual pump and good reviews:

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/gamo-arrow-pcp-rifle-pump-kit?m=5698#11505

$299.99

That looks pretty neat. And is not expensive.

Remember that it is still not "raccoon capable" though. Typical .22LR ammo is 40gr at 1200 fps which is about 128 ft-lbs of energy. A .22 caliber air gun pellet is about 15gr and the spec on that PCP rifle is 900 fps (for the .22 caliber version). So about 27 ft-lbs of energy ... 1/5 as powerful as the .22LR round. Good enough for a squirrel, but not a raccoon.

 

[OldSchool]

That looks pretty neat. And is not expensive.

Remember that it is still not "raccoon capable" though. Typical .22LR ammo is 40gr at 1200 fps which is about 128 ft-lbs of energy. A .22 caliber air gun pellet is about 15gr and the spec on that PCP rifle is 900 fps (for the .22 caliber version). So about 27 ft-lbs of energy ... 1/5 as powerful as the .22LR round. Good enough for a squirrel, but not a raccoon.

How about this for raccoons?



I think it’ll work well enough and I’ve decided that’s what I want.

I’ve come to the conclusion that PCP’s aren’t the best choice when considering complications of a SHTF.

 

[Haertig]

Those Benjamin Trail's are nice air rifles from what I've read. I've never handled of shot one though.

One other thing you might want to keep in mind - air rifles are not always all that quiet. PCP ones are, but springers are not. An advance on springers (which use an actual heavy duty spring) are "air piston" models. The spring is replaced by a compressed air mechanism - a drop in replacement for some air rifles. These pistons are kind of like the kind that hold the rear hatch of your car open (obviously a different design goal - you don't want your tailgate flying up in your face under the most power possible!) The "NP" model Benjamin uses an "air piston" powerplant (I believe that's what their "NP" stands for - "Nitro Piston"). Air pistons are quieter than a springer, but not as quiet as a PCP.

So everything is a trade-off. Power vs. noise vs. cocking effort vs. accuracy etc. The one that wins in pretty much every category is the PCP. But they are more expensive. And you need specialty gear to use them (at minimum, and expensive high PSI hand pump - a bicycle pump is not going to do it). The air piston rifle you are looking at may or may not be quiet enough for city use. I don't have experience with air pistons. I can tell you that I fired off one single round with my springer .177 air rifle (Gamo brand) in my suburban back yard. And that was enough to immediately convince me not to ever do that again. Too loud. Manufacturers and models differ a little in their noise level, but mostly it's the power plant technology that they use. If you want really quiet, your choices are basically PCP or CO2 (CO2 being way under powered for any hunting use). Pseudo-quiet might be something like the air piston you are looking at. "Pseudo" can be a slippery term however.

Bottom line - do your research not only on power/energy delivered, but also on noise level before making a final decision.

 

[OldSchool]

Here’s one I considered and the price is right. But - Hatsan has some serious quality control issues and apparently non-existent customer service.



As for the break barrel nitro charger rifles not being quiet enough… I’ll live it as opposed to relying on a pump. But still there’s some serious advantages to the PCP’s especially having a 10 round mag and repeat shots.

So the jury might still be out on what I decide to go with.

 

[OldSchool]

The air piston rifle you are looking at may or may not be quiet enough for city use.

Bottom line - do your research not only on power/energy delivered, but also on noise level before making a final decision.

In the city any background noise after the shot, no matter how loud the shot is, will distract most people from the noise of the shot itself.

Be active after the shot and make some noise and make it look like all is fine. Start cleaning a barbecue grill and drop the lid, rattle the grill, ‘accidentally’ knock over a charcoal grill and start cleaning up the mess. Etc… your neighbors might call you an ******* or an idiot (especially if it’s 2 o’clock in the morning) but all will be fine.

 

[Haertig]

But still there’s some serious advantages to the PCP’s especially having a 10 round mag and repeat shots.

I don't know about all air rifles, but the "repeater" I have just advances a magazine to the next pellet. You still have to manually operate a lever to put the pellet in the chamber. So at least some - mine being an example - air gun "repeaters" operate like a bolt action rifle that has an internal magazine. They're not like a semi-auto powder gun. My repeater is a single-pump-pneumatic. Meaning that you have to cock it between every shot. It's "magazine" is just a pellet holder. After you cock the rifle, you operate the bolt. As you pull the bolt back, the magazine advances. As you push the bolt forward, it pushes a pellet out of the holder into the chamber. This works about 50% of the time. The other 50% - it jams. I never use the pellet holder anymore, and just use the rifle as a true single shot - I manually pick up a pellet and insert it into the chamber with my fingers for every shot. That's actually faster than fiddling with the jam-o-matic "repeater" function. There is a little "single shot adapter" that I insert into where the pellet holder would go. It stays there permanently, provides a way to use single pellets, and disables the auto-advance pellet holder.

I have a BB gun that is a true repeater. Pull trigger - pull trigger - pull trigger - that's all it takes to shoot multiple rounds. It uses CO2 as its powerplant. But they're BB's. So not very powerful and not very accurate. But my pellet rifle does not operate like that. So if you're looking at repeaters, make sure to research what "repeater" means for that particular air gun. Generally repeater just means it has a holder for multiple pellets, but the action is really bolt action (or some other manual mechanism that does what a bolt does). The pellet holder may advance automatically when you cock the rifle for a second shot, or it may advance when you manually operate a lever or something, but it doesn't advance due to the action of the previous shot like a semi-auto firearm does.

Mind you - PCP rifles may indeed be more like semi-auto firearms. Their air reservoirs hold enough air to "cycle an action" so to speak. Whether they actually do this or not, I don't know. I kind of doubt it though. I don't own any PCP's myself so I can't say from personal experience.

Sorry if it sounds like every time you suggest something I pop in with "But, but, but ... wait!" I'm not trying to stomp on your choices. I'm just trying to help you understand how air rifles operate. I'd hate for you to go out and spend a bunch of money expecting to get a semi-auto like action and find out that what you really bought is more like a bolt action.

 

[Haertig]

Oh, now that I just mentioned BB's, might as well make a point about those too. You will find some air rifles that shoot both pellets and BB's. They do that by having a smooth bore, like a shotgun. BB's require that. Pellets will go down a smooth bore or a rifled bore. But if you send them down a smooth bore, they're not going to be accurate. You need a rifled bore. So I might as well put in yet another "But, but, but ... wait!" here and tell you NOT to get a combo BB and pellet rifle. You don't want the smooth bore that this will have.

 

[OldSchool]

I got that the magazine is essentially just a pellet holder and the rifle needs to be manually operating like a typical bolt action rifle. I also understand that the magazine tends to disform the pellets…. so they aren’t great.

I did enough research, reading, thinking, etc. last night to be on a sharp learning curve.

Now… I’m still thinking I’ll go with that Benjamin in post #38

 

[OldSchool]

About BB guns… there’s a really cool full auto AR15 style BB gun.

I handled and shot one. It handles like the real thing (expect there’s no recoil) and top quality construction.

The man said he bought on Amazon for ~200 bucks. He’s a car salesman type so not sure about that. Anyway is just a fun toy.

 

[Haertig]

Now… I’m still thinking I’ll go with that Benjamin in post #38

You could certainly do a lot worse. Make sure you buy a reasonable supply of those .25 caliber pellets (find out which specific pellet your specific rifle likes best before buying a bunch). Air guns can be picky about which pellet they will shoot most accurately. And that can vary even between identical model air guns. You don't see .25 caliber pellets in local sporting goods stores here. Maybe where you live though. Here, I'd have to buy them online. Pyramyd Air is good for that since they have a never ending "buy three get the fourth free" deal on pellets. You might find .25 caliber pellets on Amazon, but be wary of that. When I've bought pellets from Amazon in the past, the tins were all smashed and many of the pellets look like they were run through a garbage disposal. Amazon doesn't pack anything worth crap anymore. Pyramyd Air packs their pellets superbly. Even with the buy three get fourth free deal, Pyramyd may be a little more expensive than Amazon. But if you actually want to receive pellets that you can use, it's best to avoid Amazon.