Close Combat

[Roninsensei]

Please understand that what I said was not about your product. Its about the 1000s of hand to hand products that are welded and fail. When I made my statement about welded weapons it was made from experience, and a tank is not the same as a mace. If you think My statement was directed at your product then I apologize but that wasn't my intent. I was making a statement based on experience (not with your product) about hand to hand weapons that are welded together. I would love for yours to be the exception because if you read back you'll see that I expressed a desire for them to be good.
Like Phoenix I have lost brothers (not just friends) in combat to simple things like a machete. To discount its lethal potential means you haven't ever seen one used in action. Everything on this site we will test to make sure that it works proper or we will say don't do it. I plan on becoming a costumer of yours soon. I will post a review. If it holds up I will tell the world about your product and please believe me when I say it will be fair, I hope that it holds up, I will probably try to break it. Even if it does break I will recommend it if it goes beyond normal use. You seem to have a lot of pride in your product hence your quick to defend, It will more than likely show in the test and I promise I will tell everyone about the Quality and care you take and the pride that clearly goes into your work after the review if that's what i find.

Personally I've seen welded weapons fail to often to be serious about them. I've seen them break at the weld points too often to trust my life with them. Do a video using them in extreme tests for strength and we'll see. Outside of that I wouldn't waste my money. Life time warranties are useless if I'm dead due to product failure. But at the same time it shows you stand behind your work. But I do like where your going with this!!! I hope your weapons pan out cause they look like fun. Please do destruction test then post.

As you can see here I was not talking about you, I was talking about welded weapons and my personal experience with such. And the picture you posted was not of tanks and guns but hand to hand weapons. Also I offered words of encouragement and I stated in the end that I hope they pan out because they look like fun. That was a real statement of hope not sarcasm. I still do hope.

P.s. text doesn't convey tone. I'm not trying to be jerky. I'm more quizzical. I sincerely wish to know. They do look like fun.

I still mean this. But soon I'll answer the questions myself.
I have no real dog in this fight except that my Brother and Sister preppers are safe and the products do what they are built for.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

Apologies for my reactions that may have been offensive or defensive. I certainly do not want to make enemies with anyone, it's bad for business. I am a damn good welder that had an idea. If you reveiw my facebook page you will see some of the things I have built and repaired. Articulating TV arm and trailer for example. FTE will build anything that people want, its a custom fab shop with 3d Cad service available. I even built a sculpture for an interior designer in NM. I would also encourage some ideas on different styles of weapons, they are cheap and easy to build. I'm not trying to get rich or rip anyone off, I am just trying to make a living. I raise chickens. I can my own food and grow my own produce. I am a firearms advocate and owner. I am also a journeyman machinist and was a journeyman Fuels Specialist (Air Force). Most of my friends were Marines. One in particualr was recently commissioned and was a DI @ Paris Island. FTE also sponsors proffesional(belator) MMA fighter Antonio Castillo Jr. "The Mexican Muscle". I am on the same team as you guys.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

Ronin: My offer still stands. If you make a video of the weapon test, FTE will replace your weapon no charge. I assume you will test it until it is more or less ruined. I am very confident that ruining it will be a challenge! I wouldn't know how to ruin it besides putting it into a press and crushing it or by using a sledge hammer on it. I am not a martial artist, I just know how to build strong stuff. Your test may be quite different than mine and being experienced in martial arts, you know how to test it and your opinion will be more respected.

 

[Roninsensei]

Its a deal!!

 

[Roninsensei]

Its a deal!!

 

[Roninsensei]

In this one Jaime is using a quick draw holster. Not common equipment.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul8D...btMhEIv67ceuNrzRD3VTHmL0TYPPi-PHC7D14Wsz693IG

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

The point here is very clear. 21 ft rule is good to know, scary actually. point well taken. For arguements sake : The aggressor in all of these is a knife weilder and the defender has the gun. Would it make a difference if the defender had any other weapon, a knife, or club? I don't think it would make a difference. The aggressor would still close the distance if the defender has to react to the aggressor. To me, the moral of the story is: never assume an assailant will not attack, have weapon drawn already. These were all more or less suprise attacks. In the case of a suprise, like the second video, there isn;t much you could do at all unless you assume EVERYONE could attack you without warning. Although the first video was crazy! with several officers there, with what looked like semi-auto rifles approached a guy with a knife without weapons at the ready, that was stupid of them! They had a warning and ignored it. If the aggressor has a gun and the defender has a knife, i believe the outcome would be quite different.

 

[Roninsensei]

Very possibly if their weapons were drawn but most of the time people don't believe its gonna happen. Imagine the damage done with a longer weapon like your halberd. Plus in our drills a safe distance is more like 30 feet. Weapon length changes the distance needed to close. Hence the longer it is the more time and distance you need to react and draw. Better to have the gun in hand. But the other point is that unless its a head shot he can keep coming. You may get a couple in him but he may get a couple in you as well. lol

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

All of this has made me think pretty hard about how I would react to a potential threat. I always keep one under the hammer on my pistol (which the mythbusters didn't) even so, if the pistol isn't drawn, the time it takes to draw and fire at center mass is roughly equal to the time it takes for the agressor to close the gap. And as you said, and I witnessed in the first video, 1-3 shots may not be enough to stop a guy, especially a big guy. my only consolation is this: 1)Most people aren;t skilled, or crazy enough to attack with knife. 2) about 80% of rabbits that I jump while hunting, I get. (shotgun, modifed choke, 10-20 yrds, #6 game loads). but rabbits aren;lt trying to kill me and they are unarmed and they are easier to kill than a man. LOL Excellent post, great learning experience for me. I am going to share these videos wtih others.

 

[Roninsensei]

Glad to help!

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

Since my last post, i have shown 5 people the videos you posted. Everyone is "shocked" for lack of a better word.

 

[Roninsensei]

lol They usually are! I hope this info saves life's and better preps our brothers and sisters.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

In good faith. I have an offer for you, Ronin. I will ship you one of my weapons, no charge, shipping or other wise(with the exception of the "Zombie Starfire mace" as it is a complicated build, for you to put to the test and video the results and post to youtube, or directly to me if the results suck! Again I would like to emphasize that i am not a martial artist. All I ask is an objective test of my weapon in realistic scenerio's. Request your weapon, provide your address and I will ship ASAP. In return, all I ask is an objective test on video to promote my product. I am confident that you will be satisfied and purchase one for yourself for actual use after the test. Nothing out of pocket for you up front. Please E-amil your response to [email protected] and the weapon of your choice will be shipped to you no charge, other than a video test. How about that?

 

[Roninsensei]

Once again sir, you have a deal.

 

[Joseph]

Cool, a video test results.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

I have gone back and read all of the posts on this thread. I have seen a lot of debate over which martial art is best or which one to learn. My opinion is this: Any martial art is better than none. Realistically in an apocolypse situation, groups will form to create a sense of security. I think the biggest threat would be an attack by a group and not a single man/woman. One on One fights to the death will boil down to who has a stronger will to live and/or who is the meanest SOB. In the event of being attacked by a group of let's say 5 guys...how can a person effectivley defend themself with out a gun? Bladed weapons can get stuck in bones if they are long enough to swing. If they are short, it could be difficult to keep a safe distance. Clubs or sticks can work well for bludgening, but if they aren't heavy, they may not kill. If they are heavy, you can become tired of carrying it and tire even more quickly swinging it. I am not a martial artist of any kind. Does anyone have an answer?

 

[Roninsensei]

Martial arts will get you killed if their focus is sport, mainly cause their focus is scoring points or submitting a person one on one. I've seen plenty of guys who used their sports training in field and pay the ultimate price for it. Kind of like a guy that buys a soldering kit and calls himself a welder. Training in tactical True martial (military)hand to hand with both bladed and blunt instruments can be all the difference in the end. I haven't had as many as 5 on me at once (at least I think things happen quick) but I did take 4 with a machete and your right it does get stuck, the problem is most would stand there trying to get it out and not move on. Training teaches you A) how to get it back out easier and quicker and B) to always have a back up and move on to it quicker. Train with heavier weapons to keep the battle fatigue down and it'll help. Using say your halberd to train then switching to your lite mace for real or using your star mace for the halberd instead. When you train eventually you'll develop better speed and coordination, Those 2 factors alone can be life and death. At some point I plan on adding training content here so that if a member doesn't have access to a good school they can get something. but for weapons training either blunt or sharp Kali Escrima is the way to go.

This is Dan Inosanto one of the only legit students/teachers of Bruce Lee. Bruce taught him Wing Chun Danny Taught him Escrima.
He's a great instructors for Americans because he cuts out the B.S. and gives you what works.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

Can I assume the following: Weapons wielded with each hand could be the most effective against many foes? The excercise in the video posted is impressive. The coordination of using two hands loaded is astonishing to say the least. I cannot see myself being able to perform this way without intensive training. My left hand is nearly useless (I am right handed). Against many foes, two hands are required. Allow me to propose a new challenge. I am a big, strong man, athletic in youth, coordinated, 6'1" 270lbs currently. I am currently strong and coordinated, not necessarily atheletic or quick anymore. With that, my personal opinion for my self would be to get a weapon swinging and use the weapons weight to my advantage using inertia and weight to keep it going (like a mace on a chain). How effective could I be with a mace on chain swinging constantly? I guess i am comparing Eastern H2H with ancient Western H2H. Let me be more direct: If I had a mace swinging around @ 60 RPM's 4' from my body, could you get in with a blade to get me?

 

[Roninsensei]

Absolutely I could get to you but it would take timing. Also avoid all chained weapons like the plague. They whip back at you and even some of the most experienced experts avoid them. Weapons in each hand aren't the end all. Strategy is everything. I prefer an empty hand it gives me more options where as 2 handed means I'm limiting myself. The two handed drills are mainly to develop coordination. If your right arm gets shot or sliced your not down and out. So start using your left more. For someone your size a spear or staff would make you dangerous. Like a 4 ft spear or staff.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

Some food for thought. How about a lighter "starfire mace". or a light mace with a longer handle?

 

[Roninsensei]

Variety is always a good thing. You could offer your gear in selectable lengths like a light med and heavy for each. The problem with a weighted weapon is recovery from power swings. If you don't know how to recover then your in trouble.

 

[Roninsensei]

See the long spear is a difficult weapon to pass!!

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

Actually it isn't Ronin. If I was the guy with the shield and sword I would let the guy with the spear thrust one time and then get within the effective range. You could hit me with the haft but what does that really do? Nothing, but maybe knock me off balance, and if I was expecting the strike it wouldn't knock me off balance. I would be inside and carving the spear welder up before he could recover.

Again it comes down to training and will to live. If you have a polearm you can keep me at range, but if I get in your range I would **** you up. Personally I would love someone to have a spear coming at me because I would break his knee, then his chest, and then his head in short order. All while he couldn't do anything. Granted the situation changes if the person is trained in polearms but really, how many people are?

TBH, I'm glad you guys have found common ground and understanding. You both have valid points and I think that the discussion was worth while. Funtime, if you want send me some of the weapons you have and I will also do a test on them and send you the results. I have no problem proving a sound product. You can reach me at [email protected]. I can and will video the tests and send the results to you and you only.

Love you guys!!
2

 

[Roninsensei]

What eve Phoenix I'd do a reverse ninja flip then kill you!!! Lol jk. I agree you or I could get in. But this is an example of someone not versed in close combat being owned by a long weapon.

 

[Onisei]

I'm going to have to disagree regarding chain weapons. Well kind of... They can be great if you train with them sufficiently. For example I love my kyoketsu shoge would I use it in a survival situation probably not but I would take the weight and para cord which can make a great impromptu weapon in an emergency. For example in a situation I may attach 12 ft of para cord to my machete and attach the weight to the cord for a kind of distance weapon

The picture is of a good friend of mine not me

 

[Roninsensei]

The shoge I would not consider a chain weapon, more of a knife on a rope. Traditionally chain wasn't used. Chain
Came later but that's samantics. The shoge is a weapon of surprise not of self defense. Not a good call for survival. But fun to play with. During a private lesson with Hatsumi we asked what he preferred the shoge for and he said the wall. Lol The hombo is his preferred weapon. Makes sense if you think about it.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

Ronin: FTE specializes in custom work, so I always offer special items. Example: If you were to decide to purchase a light mace after the tests, I could make one to your exact specifcations, tailored for you. I like the spear video. The point is clear. Unfortunatly swinging a spear is sort of ineffective as it is not heavy enough to deliver serious blunt force trauma, but the thrust is very deadly. Maybe a traditional length halberd would be more effective (5'-7'). It could be used like a spear for thrusting but has a "hatchet" type blade on it making it more effective than a plain stick when swinging. In this case the haft would almost have to be wooden, if it were steel, simply carrying it could wear a guy out. A six foot 1/2" sched 40 steel pipe weighs 5.1 lbs, add a blade and thrusting spike = 6 lbs. Thoughts?

Phoenix: I would love to take to you up on your offer, but that would mean more or less firing Ronin, LOL. Thank you for the offer and your thoughts.

Onisei: If you like chained or tethered weapons, please post some photos of one that you think are effective and that I could build or replicate. Please remember that i am trying to keep costs low so that my products are afforable and effective. My primary material is mild steel. Mild steel doesn;t make good blades, it is fairly soft and maleable compared to a quality knife blade. This is why I am concentrating on bludgening weapons.

 

[Roninsensei]

I think there are some woods out there that are about equal to med steel with out the weight like Cocobolo wood or Bocote. Both very tough but lighter than steel. The 5 / 6 foot weapons are just too long on my opinion that's why one of the greatest spear and staff fighters of japan made the smaller jo staff (4ft). It's longer than most weapons like bats and swords but doesn't sacrifice speed like the 5 / 6 ft weapons and speed with some weight, makes up for removing weight. I believe that too much weight creates problems for the carrier however I think a staff like instrument relieves its own weight by using it as a walking stick as well.

 

[FunTimeEngineering]

I have never heard of those woods, I'm guessing they are "exotic" and expensive. What about aluminum? Lightweight, readily available and relativley inexpensive, although aluminum could bend becauseit is pretty rigid. Do these types of wood flex like a fiberglass antenna might? I am building a battle axe for a friend tomorrow, the head will be pretty heavy so I planned to make the handle pretty long so that it can be used like a sledgehammer. 4ft might be a good length. I will feel that out. All of my weapons lengths are based on what felt comfortable to me , I didn;t even measure the prototypes, I just made them. Then reverse engineered to make the prints.(opossite of my normal practice). I really like the long weapon and I really want to come up with one that is effective and managable. I am convinced that in a doomsday scenerio, there will be gangs or mobs of hungry people being very aggressive. Unless I run into a seriously trained guy one on one, i'm pretty confident I can handle him, it is the gang, or mob that I fear the most.

 

[Roninsensei]

The woods are exotic but very obtainable and not super expensive. My 4 ft Cocobolo staff 3/4 inch thick is 1 pound 5 ounce ans can take one steel I got the original piece that was 4ft 4x4 for 35 bucks and made 4 staffs for 90.00 each all i did was cut it into 4 equal pieces down the length then 45 degree cuts on each corner to slightly round off the staff then and down add tongue oil and all's good