Darwinism at work in Michigan

[Proud Prepper]

I repeat...

I'm not defending any particular action by anyone (or any particular government policy or order). I am just asking the question if the government has a constitutional duty to protect the lives of the citizens, how should they do that?

They should do it within the limitations set forth by the constitution. They cannot do otherwise by force. They can suggest, request and advise to do anything and everything they want.

The only way to deny someone of there constitutional rights by the government is by due process, which they have not done with any of these lockdowns or stay at home orders.

 

[BillMasen]

Question guys. If this pandemic was Ebola or some other easily transmitted viral haemoragic fever running riot across the country do you think so many people would be protesting the right to do what ever they want??

 

[tmttactical]

Question guys. If this pandemic was Ebola or some other easily transmitted viral haemoragic fever running riot across the country do you think so many people would be protesting the right to do what ever they want??

Yes but they may also not need the government force of arms to stay home. This pandemic does not have a great enough fear factor, so too many do not heed the suggestions. The young and dumb risk their lives, because they feel invincible. People who cherish their freedoms, will always protest their government infringement on their freedom. The governments need to do a better Public Relations job in selling their ideas. Force of arms is never acceptable and only breeds rebellion. Also the fear factor has to be taken into account. Fear of MAYBE getting infected vs. verses the very real certainty of losing their homes, jobs, life savings and being on the street. So you have government over reach and the fear of loss vs. the possibility of getting infected. It was a certainty from the very beginning there would be push back. Even when the infection rates climbs and the death rate climbs, the lock down is going to end very soon and never be restarted. This China virus is just not scary enough to out weight the potential losses.

 

[BillMasen]

Yes but they may also not need the government force of arms to stay home. This pandemic does not have a great enough fear factor, so too many do not heed the suggestions. The young and dumb risk their lives, because they feel invincible. People who cherish their freedoms, will always protest their government infringement on their freedom. The governments need to do a better Public Relations job in selling their ideas. Force of arms is never acceptable and only breeds rebellion. Also the fear factor has to be taken into account. Fear of MAYBE getting infected vs. verses the very real certainty of losing their homes, jobs, life savings and being on the street. So you have government over reach and the fear of loss vs. the possibility of getting infected. It was a certainty from the very beginning there would be push back. Even when the infection rates climbs and the death rate climbs, the lock down is going to end very soon and never be restarted. This China virus is just not scary enough to out weight the potential losses.

That makes sense to me because you guys have a better grasp of your own folks cultural habits and beliefs.

 

[DrHenley]

I am not claiming to have the answers, this is meant to be thought provoking. The government limits your freedoms every time they pass a law. There are thousands and thousands of laws that tell you what you can and cannot do. Yes I do believe most of them are overreach and unnecessary. But without laws we are left with anarchy. There is a balance somewhere.

I don't want platitudes, I want real critical thought from you.

 

[BillMasen]

This is like travelling back in time for me, I can remember the US having mass protests because SOME people would not accept
1 Mix race schools / buses etc
2 The draft
3 Speed limits during the 73 oil crisis
4 Not being allowed to use LSD whilst driving
5 Polygamy
6 Religion in schools
7 Hunting out of season
8 Motorcycle crash helmet laws and Seatbelt laws.
9 Not smoking in Cafes, Diners and Eateries
10 to 1,000.000 Gun control laws

Its against their Constitutional Right apparently

 

[Brent S]

There are too many selfish people to not have rules and laws. So many feel they can do or say anything they want regardless of the effect on others.

 

[DrHenley]

This is like travelling back in time for me, I can remember the US having mass protests because SOME people would not accept
1 Mix race schools / buses etc
2 The draft
3 Speed limits during the 73 oil crisis
4 Not being allowed to us LSD whilst driving
5 Polygamy
6 Religion in schools
7 Hunting out of season
8 Motorcycle crash helmet laws and Seatbelt laws.
9 Not smoking in Cafes, Diners and Eateries
10 to 1,000.000 Gun control laws

Its against their Constitutional Right apparently

I'd say half of those are overreach.

I'm not saying which half

 

[BillMasen]

There are too many selfish people to not have rules and laws. So many feel they can do or say anything they want regardless of the effect on others.

I always remember two incidents in the US that once made the UK papers years ago, One was a chap who said it was his constitutional right to drive even though his eyesight was so bad he was considered blind by the state. the other was a chap who said it was his right to fire his guns in the woodland outback of his home, and that if other people were there they should get out of his way. Certainly raised a few eyebrows in this grossly overcrowded country at the time

 

[DrHenley]

Actually in the "Free States" people can shoot in the woods behind their home, sometimes even inside the city limits, provided there is enough room for it. Obviously they must avoid shooting other people except for self defense. You cannot intentionally shoot at outdoor trespassers who are not threatening you or committing a felony against you (simple trespassing is not a felony), or even shoot in their general direction - that can be viewed as assault with a deadly weapon.

The restriction are usually something like this:
(These restrictions do not apply to self defense)
You cannot discharge a firearm withing 100 yards of a residence without the owner's permission. (that distance can sometimes be between 50 yards and 500 yards depending on the county and what type of gun is discharged)
You cannot discharge a firearm within 50 yards of a public street or highway (except at a range that is shielded from the public street)
You cannot shoot a bullet across the property line without permission of the owner of the other property.

 

[HAPPYGOLUCKY]

I really doubt that anyone had "automatic" weapons there. Even if they did, so what? I'm sure that they jumped through all the hoops and paid all the fees. But you are right about one thing; you are being very opinionated and really jumping to conclusions about some of the people at these protests.

I apologize Arcticdude. I typically never speak out about things that I have no clue about. As each and everyone of those people matter and obviously what they were standing for mattered. I know better than judging any book (news article) by the headline. I got my head out my tailside this weekend and ask for forgiveness. I'm just here to learn all I can about current events and survival. and I know absolutely nothing about different kinds of guns.

 

[DrHenley]

I apologize Arcticdude. I typically never speak out about things that I have no clue about.

You are absolved my friend Honest mistake.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Yep. What doc said.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Sure it does. It does it all the time. Telling my how fast I can drive my car is trampling all over my rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, LOL.

Not really true doc. When you register your car and get a drivers license you "agree" to follow the traffic rules. I still drive as fast as I feel safe for the conditions, and that makes me happy.

 

[Mountain trapper]

The main reason to wear a mask is to protect others, not yourself. So your stupid will kill other people as likely as kill you, if you're one of the hidden infected.

I wore a mask for the first time yesterday....when I cleaned the chicken coop. That's about the only time that I'll wear one of them GD things.

 

[DrHenley]

Not really true doc. When you register your car and get a drivers license you "agree" to follow the traffic rules. I still drive as fast as I feel safe for the conditions, and that makes me happy.

So if I DON'T register my car and DON'T get a driver's license, I am not bound by the traffic laws and can drive as fast as I want on PUBLIC roads???

 

[Mountain trapper]

So if I DON'T register my car and DON'T get a driver's license, I am not bound by the traffic laws and can drive as fast as I want on PUBLIC roads???

I'm pretty sure that's the way it works Doc. But I think you need to be drinking too. However, I don't want to test that theroy.

 

[tmttactical]

So if I DON'T register my car and DON'T get a driver's license, I am not bound by the traffic laws and can drive as fast as I want on PUBLIC roads???

Heck Doc, you can even murder people if you like. It is not the doing that is the problem, it is getting caught that is the problem. Drive without license or registration is easy and you can go as fast as your want ---- until caught. Being in / on any vehicle (even bicycles in some states) on a public road, is a privilege granted and enforced by the government. Nothing in the constitution grants you the "RIGHT" to drive or even be on a public road / highway. BUT then again, you already know this. Most of the laws are over reach and do remove freedom of choice. I always ware my seat belt and always wore my helmet when riding my motorcycle but I damn sure resented the government forcing me to ware them. It is not the governments job to protect the stupid from themselves. Look at all the laws and their excuse for existing is to protect people from something. A few are actually needed but many, if not most, are simply designed to help the stupid live long enough breed and pollute the gene pool.

 

[GaRp58]

There is always a middle way to give the people a way to regulate themselves: Texas, Helmet law if you ride a motorcycle. But, if you have an extra sticker on your license plate, that shows that you pay extra for a PRIVATE insurance that will take care of you if you have an accident and the state does not have to, then you can ride without one...on the other side, you cannot ride in Texas with more that 3 bikes together without a "parade license"??? Some laws are functional, and some just prejudices on paper.
We have laws in Germany that would make your head spin. There are so many stupid people here that the gov't needs to explain how to park, how to pass, how to tie down your dog in the car and even how to act in case of an accident. Where you may or may not, even how early you may put your TRASH CAN on the street for pickup. There is a new law now, the state takes a satellite picture of your house and land, figures out how many square feet of concrete and asphalt you have on your property, decides how much rainwater lands on this "sealed" area and has to flow into the city water drainage system, and then decides how much taxes you need to pay for the city to clean this water which SHOULD OR COULD have just soaked into the ground if YOU HAD NOT CONCRETED this amount of square feet.......how does that taste for a stupid law where the state decides what is right or wrong? GP

 

[Proud Prepper]

There is always a middle way to give the people a way to regulate themselves: Texas, Helmet law if you ride a motorcycle. But, if you have an extra sticker on your license plate, that shows that you pay extra for a PRIVATE insurance that will take care of you if you have an accident and the state does not have to, then you can ride without one...on the other side, you cannot ride in Texas with more that 3 bikes together without a "parade license"??? Some laws are functional, and some just prejudices on paper.
We have laws in Germany that would make your head spin. There are so many stupid people here that the gov't needs to explain how to park, how to pass, how to tie down your dog in the car and even how to act in case of an accident. Where you may or may not, even how early you may put your TRASH CAN on the street for pickup. There is a new law now, the state takes a satellite picture of your house and land, figures out how many square feet of concrete and asphalt you have on your property, decides how much rainwater lands on this "sealed" area and has to flow into the city water drainage system, and then decides how much taxes you need to pay for the city to clean this water which SHOULD OR COULD have just soaked into the ground if YOU HAD NOT CONCRETED this amount of square feet.......how does that taste for a stupid law where the state decides what is right or wrong? GP

It's a good thing they dont force people to live there. You still have the freedom to live elsewhere.

 

[GaRp58]

Just waiting for the new lawmakers boredom to come up with a regulation on how many squares of the Toilet paper I may use on each VISIT to the bathroom.
We even have a law here which got the name "Air law"...If you have a company and have an advertisement sign which is screwed onto the wall of your building, then the sign is a part of the building and therefore covered by the building taxes...if the sign is hung up or posted up "in the AIR", then you have to pay special taxes since it is included under the taxation laws for "billboard" type taxation on advertisement signs.

 

[BillMasen]

Just waiting for the new lawmakers boredom to come up with a regulation on how many squares of the Toilet paper I may use on each VISIT to the bathroom.
We even have a law here which got the name "Air law"...If you have a company and have an advertisement sign which is screwed onto the wall of your building, then the sign is a part of the building and therefore covered by the building taxes...if the sign is hung up or posted up "in the AIR", then you have to pay special taxes since it is included under the taxation laws for "billboard" type taxation on advertisement signs.

Use BOTH sides.