How Long Would Society Last During a Total Grid Collapse?

[lonewolf]

once the power grid collapsed nothing would function anymore.
electricity is needed to everything these days so without power we would not function as a society.
those of us who can function without power would probably be the only ones left after a short while.

 

[Hardcalibres]

once the power grid collapsed nothing would function anymore.
electricity is needed to everything these days so without power we would not function as a society.
those of us who can function without power would probably be the only ones left after a short while.

Survivability is likely to be more dependent upon whether you can function (stay safe) without the rule of law.

Almost all preppers will be overwhelmingly outnumbered by desperate people with guns - most of those will be strangers, but some will be neighbors.

Only those living an isolated life, in extremely remote locations, will be able to avoid that threat.

 

[Magus]

Unless of course, you can organize the "golden horde" into your own army.

 

[Aerindel]

The human race has survived quite a few collapses that were so bad that the species itself was in danger.

And to be clear, I don't think the human race is in danger of extinction. We are one of the toughest large animals to ever live.

Its just human civilization as we know it that I think is a fragile and temporary state.

 

[Neb]

I just watched this, and thought it was interesting to see how everything is related. I wonder how long it would take to reach civil unrest?

I feel there is no single answer to how long until civil unrest.

People in North Korea may never notice and just keep going.

High population areas dependent on the machine of society to run like clockwork will notice soon that something is up. Some of those with the least couth will loot joyfully as seems to be the norm even in non world altering events. After hauling home their pillaging they will be focused on looting the beer store and pizza shop. Then it get serious.

If there is a TEOTWAKI event like an EMP the societal support systems will fall apart in some cases. In others leaders will rise up and make a difference.

Examples

The power plant operators that stays home home to defend their families.

The..
police officer
EMT
Water plant operators

It is when those people stay home that society falls apart.

I will ponder this more.

Ben

 

[Hardcalibres]

.........

The power plant operators that stays home home to defend their families.

The..
police officer
EMT
Water plant operators

It is when those people stay home that society falls apart.

I will ponder this more.

Ben

I have long held the view that mass absenteeism among LEO and other essential workers will be the "switch" that will make a very severe crisis real and indeed long term.

If people have good friends among those types of personnel, it would be a good idea to mention to them sometime, that you would like them to tell you ASAP if that ever happens.

Once the ROL fails, a large number of people will start doing things from which there is no turning back.

Those who believe that most people will want the ROL to return, should consider how many people there will be who will have done things for which they will not want to be held to account.

 

[lonewolf]

Unless of course, you can organize the "golden horde" into your own army.

The Golden Horde is the figment of a fiction writers imagination.
in the UK we dont evacuate, we go indoors and sit tight until the situation clears.
looting is only a temporary reprieve, food supplies are limited when resupply is not an option, once all the food stocks are gone the big die off will start, maybe before.

 

[Aerindel]

I have long held the view that mass absenteeism among LEO and other essential workers will be the "switch" that will make a very severe crisis real and indeed long term.

We came pretty close during covid and the race riots. My department is still well below 2019 response levels.

But you are right....my trigger for full Decon 1 status is when people are calling 911, and nobody at all shows up.

 

[lonewolf]

we dont have Police out here in the rural areas of Britain, they are mostly confined to the cities and larger urban areas which is where the crime is.
our Fire Dept is all volunteers.
nearest Nuclear facility is over a hundred miles away.
where I live is considered to be remote by British standards.

 

[Magus]

The Golden Horde is the figment of a fiction writers imagination.
in the UK we dont evacuate, we go indoors and sit tight until the situation clears.
looting is only a temporary reprieve, food supplies are limited when resupply is not an option, once all the food stocks are gone the big die off will start, maybe before.

I think your friends to the north disagree. Enjoy the figment of our imagination.

 

[lonewolf]

I think your friends to the north disagree. Enjoy the figment of our imagination.

North? you mean Scotland? too far away to be of any consequence.

 

[Aerindel]

North? you mean Scotland? too far away to be of any consequence.

Ha, wouldn't be the first time a brit made that mistake!

 

[lonewolf]

Ha, wouldn't be the first time a brit made that mistake!

British history dosent agree with you.(I'm not British I'm Devonian English). actually there is no such thing as a Brit, thats just what other countries call us-wrongly, we are either English, Northern Irish, Scottish or Welsh. The British Isles might be where we all live but there are 4 distinct nations within that land mass. no Scot or Welshman would call themselves British.
or am I seeing American bias at work.( we get plenty of this from Biden)

 

[Magus]

If you kiss the queen's butt, you're British. If you just live there you're English.

 

[Hardcalibres]

We came pretty close during covid and the race riots. ....my trigger for full Decon 1 status is when people are calling 911, and nobody at all shows up.

I assess that shows how much closer we are all the time to that tipping point......much closer than most people would guess.

The Golden Horde is the figment of a fiction writers imagination.

As to the "Golden Horde"........when severe crises strike around the world, some stay and some hit the road. No society is likely to exclusively do only one of those options. People do most things in accordance with a bell curve (or normal distribution) - so that means most do the average and a progressively smaller proportion do the extremes of negative and affirmative each side of that.

Whenever people who are trying to plan for severe crises come up with a scenario that is helpful/convenient to them - they should question that.

It is much more likely that you are engaging in wishful thinking than it is that you have got something right that a few generations of survivalists have all got wrong.

 

[Hardcalibres]

There are two groups among the general population that will be the most dangerous in a crisis.

1) Dork males with dependents - these are the group that post on forums that they "will do anything to feed their kids".........apparently anything except get prepared. They will find it easy to rationalize their way past any morals and do anything that presents itself as an immediate barrier to getting the resources they need for their dependents. They wont consider that they can plan or cooperate their way out of immediate problems. They will be "living in the moment" and will act spontaneously.

2) Psychopaths - At least a few percent of the general population, around 15% of senior business managers and more than 30% of prison populations are going to be psychopaths. They wont be constrained by morality.....they don't understand the concept. They consider people who do try to follow a moral code to be "suckers" and "losers".

Be especially wary of those from these professions:

According to Kevin Dutton, the ten careers with the highest proportion of psychopaths are:[17]

1. CEO
2. Lawyer
3. Media (TV/radio)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist
7. Police officer
8. Clergy
9. Chef
10. Civil servant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace

 

[Neb]

There are two groups among the general population that will be the most dangerous in a crisis.

1) Dork males with dependents - these are the group that post on forums that they "will do anything to feed their kids".........apparently anything except get prepared. They will find it easy to rationalize their way past any morals and do anything that presents itself as an immediate barrier to getting the resources they need for their dependents. They wont consider that they can plan or cooperate their way out of immediate problems. They will be "living in the moment" and will act spontaneously.

2) Psychopaths - At least a few percent of the general population, around 15% of senior business managers and more than 30% of prison populations are going to be psychopaths. They wont be constrained by morality.....they don't understand the concept. They consider people who do try to follow a moral code to be "suckers" and "losers".

Be especially wary of those from these professions:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace

Psychopaths without their meds.

Not good.

Ben

 

[ssonb]

There will probably not be a "golden horde" so to speak there will be groups but not masses. Any government will try to maintain some food and services at the cities because that is where their current position and power originates.
Heck, look at how the US has handled the last cupla wars we have lost. Fort up in the cities dash between outposts and propagandize winning the hearts and minds!
Loss of medication and disease will wallop a very large numbers of future horde members, sanitation will be the reason for much of the death. For a couple of examples when the garbage service goes on strike the big townsfolk just toss it on the sidewalk, when there was a major hurricane a few years ago and the sewer systems quit working they would keep using the toilets until overflowing then progress out into the hallways. These type people can exist and survive only thru massive expense and intervention from outside sources.

 

[Proud Prepper]

In my society there will be some inconveniences, but we would be just fine if we are left alone.

 

[Aerindel]

British history dosent agree with you.(I'm not British I'm Devonian English). actually there is no such thing as a Brit, thats just what other countries call us-wrongly, we are either English, Northern Irish, Scottish or Welsh. The British Isles might be where we all live but there are 4 distinct nations within that land mass. no Scot or Welshman would call themselves British.
or am I seeing American bias at work.( we get plenty of this from Biden)

I'm 23 generations removed from Robert the Bruce......that is the history I'm referencing Or did you forget about that part of history?

And of course no Scottsman would call himself British.

 

[Aerindel]

Psychopaths without their meds.

Not good.

Ben

Psychopaths aren't the problem. They will probably be vastly overrepresented in the survivors. Just as they are in high-stress professions.

The thing people fear so much about them is how rational they can be in a world that is not. They are not constrained by normalcy like everyone else. It's more like a super power, in broken society, than a problem. The criminal reputation is just comes from acting out in frustration, knowning they are capable of doing in anything, in a society that severely limits what you can 'legally' do.

Its all the 'depressed' people, who are propped up with meds all the time....coming off those meds....that are going to be the problem. Sure, a lot will just suicide themselves, but a percentage will go manic.

 

[Hardcalibres]

Psychopaths without their meds.

Not good.

Ben

Most are not medicated now.

 

[Hardcalibres]

In my society there will be some inconveniences, but we would be just fine if we are left alone.

Most potentially independent people won't be left alone.......that is the big problem in survivalism.

 

[Hardcalibres]

.........

The thing people fear so much about them is how rational they can be in a world that is not. ........

Actually, I don't fear their rationality....I fear their egomania, self centredness and their opportunism.

They will enjoy a world without the rule of law, way too much.

 

[Aerindel]

Actually, I don't fear their rationality....I fear their egomania, self centredness and their opportunism.

I don't fear that. Well, I do....but everybody suffers from those issues.

It's just that most people are more constrained. Empathy makes it almost physically painful for most people to do anything outside of 'normal'

Psychopaths are just like everybody else....except they can actually DO all the things that other people only can think about because of how their brain is wired. This scares most people, because most people have internal checks and balances that firewalls off what they can do. But they have no worse needs or desires than anybody else....its just that they can act on them if they choose.

There is strong evidence that how this manifests depends on their experiences. There is a common brain structure between hero's and psychopaths....the difference seems to come from how 'frustrated' they are in life.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0092656613000822

Most are not medicated now.

Yeah, I'm not sure there is ANY medication for that, its not a chemical imbalance, its a brain structure difference.

...most aren't diagnosed even....they usually learn to hide what they are as young children.

 

[Neb]

911 calls going unanswered is an obvious indicator. If comms are out how would 911 work?

My brother @firepolice251 answers all fire calls but how would he find out?

-------------------------

While the chaos in big cities has a familiar theme of mostly peaceful protest ( tongue firmly inserted in cheek), I Have trouble imagining a similar behaviour in my old mining town enclave.

People pour out of their houses questioning what happened. They can only speculate. So they decide to burn down their neighbors house? Huh?

Help me understand the expected scenario, please.

Ben



Ben

 

[Aerindel]

911 calls going unanswered is an obvious indicator. If comms are out how would 911 work?

My brother @firepolice251 answers all fire calls but how would he find out?

-------------------------

While the chaos in big cities has a familiar theme of mostly peaceful protest ( tongue firmly inserted in cheek), I Have trouble imagining a similar behaviour in my old mining town enclave.

People pour out of their houses questioning what happened. They can only speculate. So they decide to burn down their neighbors house? Huh?

Help me understand the expected scenario, please.

Ben



Ben

Well, in my small town....I can tell you, there are feuds going on........and if suddenly everyone knew no police would come (they are two hours away here, but they still come if you call)....I fully expect some peoples houses to burn down.

I've contemplated this myself even. There are some people in my area, that I wouldn't want above ground if ROL stopped. I think most rural people know who those people are. Every small town always has that one family that would go full on 'Deliverance' if given half a chance.

Its occured to me, that a hit list, could be considered a kind of prep. I expect there are a few people who have me on theirs.

 

[Hardcalibres]

Lots of feuds here too........luckily being a recent arrival (only been here a few decades), I am not involved in any of them.

There are also some tweakers and other ferals.

Some people will be surprised at how quickly the bad guys among their community start to use violence to get what they have always coveted (but the ROL prevented them from taking).

Men with good looking daughters/wives will be some of the first to get shot.......next will be those with cool cars (and bad OPSEC).......then those with lots of guns/ammo (and bad OPSEC)........then........lots of food (and.....bad OPSEC).....

 

[lonewolf]

If you kiss the queen's butt, you're British. If you just live there you're English.

your behind the times, we now have a King.

 

[Magus]

Our "society" is far different from just five miles away. Out here, it's retirees, veterans and new families, two dollar stores. nothing to loot. Over the hill? K-mart, Walmart.Food City, gun shops, jewelry stores, and lots of medium-end restaurants. By week two we'll be ready for them to bring our ammo resupply to us, maybe a few new "girlfriends" for the old codgers like me. after a time, we'll be doing the inward creep on them.