Local Farmers Market

[ArcadianCam]

I will say up front I have no idea where to put this question so please let me know if I need to move this somewhere else.

I’m wondering how to revitalize my local farmers market. Right now the offerings are pretty sad, a few vegetables here and there, maybe some knick-knacks but nothing truly ground breaking.

What I would like is to figure out a near minimum and start there, like ok these are the fruits, vegetables and animal proteins we want to sell year round if possible, then go out and find local homesteaders to fulfill this need. But the issue is I have no idea who/how the local farmers market is run or how to actually make some effective change to make it better.

Another thing id like to see, once basic needs are met with food, then we have the Knick-knacks and even monthly teaching seminars, like making soap or gutting a chicken, things like that. Ultimately I’d like to get my community involved in the buying and selling side but I just don’t know where to start.

 

[Pearl]

Great post!! Farmer's markets were always wonderful! Glad to see you back, and yes, Texas farmer's markets have been slim! Weather ? NO, our weather is the usual! Fear of the Obama/Biden tax you for everything, maybe! Or just people gave up!?!? Let's all hope we have a renewed faith and our once normal great things are great again!!

 

[Peanut]

Until 2015 I had a 200 tree peach orchard, sold at 3 farmers markets. Grew a range of veggies, corn and melons also. 2 markets were in small towns, very rural areas. One in a city of 100K.

Per capita income near the market decides which methods can help or destroy a market. I saw both happen.

That said… no matter the income level one thing should not be forgotten. There is a fundamental need that a farmer’s market fills, they help the poor. Produce in bulk can be purchased at below supermarket rates. This allows the poor, working poor and the elderly to get quality foods they can get no where else.

If your market forgets that basic function, it’s doomed. I’d rather sit on the tailgate of my truck and sell produce at an abandoned gas station than spend one minute at a market geared toward people with cash, especially those people who wear “going to the farmers market” as a social badge, something to tell their friends about.

Those people will kill a market quicker than a plague of locusts… (i’d prefer the locusts)

The city of 100K I mentioned… that market fed the very poor, elderly and working poor for decades. Until folks with cash teamed up with the city council to create the coolest “farm to table” nonsense the world had ever seen. Organic this or that….

They made it impossible for folks with gardens just to share their bounty by charging exorbitant fee’s with ridiculous requirements just to sell. Only real farmers had the cash, techniques and equipment to jump through those hoops. Many of those didn’t need the headache. Those left had to charge supermarket rates…

After a year 70% of the sellers that made that market great for decades had to, or chose to walk away. 40% of the buyers could no longer afford to shop there.

Morons killed what was a great market!!!! Now only morons shop at the poor excuse for a market that’s left. But It’s all COOL stuff!!! And you can brag to your friends and neighbors about what you bought.

But the real market did survive elsewhere. For a year or two the departed regular/month/year sellers, sold where ever they could. Then they banded together, moved to the outskirts (and across a river) and opened their own market. Once again they filled a critical need. They brought affordable prices to folks who needed great food. Simple foods though, the basics... Once again a small gardener with a extra peas, corn or a couple of melons could sell them without going broke. They filled a real need in the community and are still succeeding.

So, I suggest you examine what kind of market you’re trying to create. If it doesn’t fill a fundamental need in the community it will never be a success.

 

[Patchouli]

Drive around looking for the properties or homes where the potential sellers live. I'd think you'd be able to find something. Maybe in the spring would be better timing.
I understand what you mean about pricing the market too high. I can't afford to shop at a place in the one city, it doesn't have extra vendors but they do sell others' products. It is too expensive, and no wonder, they are within two blocks of the town square, high profile location. @Pearl probably knows where I'm talking about.
In my community they have a thing where they go to one of four different towns each Saturday and you can get a bag of fresh produce, several different kinds of produce, for really cheap. Like $5. I haven't done it yet because I work most Saturdays. I don't know who is sponsoring it.
@ArcadianCam is it a marketplace you want to see develop, or one in your community that needs more interested parties?
It starts out small. Have you checked with your local agricultural extension?

 

[SLADE]

Farmers markets here are much more expensive than the local market.

 

[Amish Heart]

Two farmer's mkts were in our area. The one in the neighboring town (where little granddaughter goes to school) started making sellers pay for table rent, and show a tax ID number. Most there were selling non food items, too. That market disbanded. No one could afford it. The one in our little town is good. No table fee. Runs for late spring and summer months. It's held under our covered area in our town on Main Street, and there's already picnic tables there. Grab a table and sell what you have. Little granddaughter sold last year and liked it. She sold her own paintings for $5 each, some beaded bracelets, eggs for $3 a dz, Cucumbers 50 cents each, small plastic (strawberry type) baskets of cherry tomatoes or hot peppers for $1 each. That was her stand. That's what we had extra of. There were usually 5 or 6 more sellers. Did learn that none of our eggs would sell till they would sell the "anchor" seller's eggs first, then the second sellers. We were low man on the totem pole, those amish ladies had been selling for a while. Still, these are buyers looking for some baked goods, and a little this a little that. If I wanted a bushel of beets, green beans, larger quantities for canning freezing, I would not go there. I'd get them from the farm across the road, and she does not mess with markets. There are farmer's market people, and there are farmer people. Some farms around here have small mudrooms where you can go in and buy extras....raw milk, eggs, cheese, butter, veg, with an honor box to pay. One lady sets up homemade fruit cakes in her mudroom about now every year, and boy are they good. Her sign is the same every year at the road and cracks me up: FRUIT CAKE'S.

 

[Magpie]

I ran one here for a while years ago; and have been involved in a few.
I will start with a warning- don't set yourself up as sole organiser of this; get help, maybe arrange a bit of a committee or at the least, helpers. That way you won't be left setting up and taking down, or have people coming to you with problems. A few things for you to consider, I suggest these though I'm in a different country to you.
Maybe look on social media locally to see if their are growers or makers in your area?Will your local council help you out? Do you have to have any public insurance? I've found once some people start, word of mouth will help you. Maybe make a list of what you would like- soap makers, jams/chutneys etc, basket making. You might find crafts people on Etsy also. Growers will be easier to source. I'd make a few flyers and carry them around with you, or put up in surrounding areas. Good luck!

 

[Mountain trapper]

My experience with farmers markets here is, most of the produce is small, damaged, dirty, and/or deformed, eggs are dirty. Apples are usually small and full of worm holes. Unfortunately this is what it's like from small back yard gardeners that don't know what they are doing. Most of the tables are selling soaps and other trinkets. We have bought honey, cider, bread, jams and jellys from our local farmers market though. If we want good produce we'll stop at some of the road side stands down south where the real farmers are. Of course this produce is grown by farmers who use pesticides and herbicides.

 

[Peanut]

A bit about small town markets... 80-90% of the buyers were the poor, elderly or just working folks. They want the basics… reasonably priced. Around here that’s okra, peas, beans melons, corn. They don’t come to the market to buy jelly, jam or kale.

A lot of working folks buy to freeze or can in quantity at the farmers market. They’ll buy a bushel of this or that and expect a discount for buying in quantity. To keep prices down the market can’t charge high fee’s to the sellers. I touched on it above, it’s even more important at small markets.

There are 2 kind of sellers at small markets. The backbone has always been real farmers. Folks who have land and equipment. They can grow and sell 100 bushels of peas, 5 acres of corn or grow 14K lbs of peaches each summer.

Might be a farmer with a few acres lying fallow that year or a family running a yearly side business. Or in my case, I grew hay between rows of peach trees to feed my cattle in winter. Peaches were a way to generate a little extra cash. For me it was two sources of income from same soil at the same time. It was business...

Serious growers are at markets for real extra income and they will find the best market for their goods. Produce gets ready to sell everyday. Serious growers need a market open 3-4 days a week. Weekend shoppers looking for jelly or heirlooms can’t sustain serious growers.

Next are the sellers who aren’t full time. These are folks with a big garden.. Don’t own tractors with lots of equipment. They might have a few extra melons… couple weeks later some extra tomatoes or okra. Only sell $200-$300 for the entire season. Their business tends to be the weekend shoppers or folks buying for dinner a couple times a week.

If you get 40 or 50 of these random sellers over the course of a season… you can see the kind of impact they can make. They drive a large portion of the foot traffic at small markets. They tend to sell the odd and unusual vegetables. The kinds of veggies serious growers can’t earn good money from.

For these folks the fees have to be very small too. A guy with 2 watermelons, 3 cantaloupes and a basket of heirloom tomatoes can’t afford a $5 or $10 table fee. He’s already out the cost of his time and gas to get there. Take out the cost to grow the produce and he’s not really making anything. They are not the backbone of a market but they help sustain a market, fill in the gaps in a growing season.

Part-timers are usually older, call it a social event for active seniors if you like but… that’s who they are. I knew several of old guys who grew a few veggies just so they could hang out at the market and talk tomato worms all summer. Some would spend $10 to get there and only have $20 of produce to sell.

If you set up a market that becomes a money pit for sellers… Where serious growers and part timers can’t make money both will leave… If it’s not worth their time they’ll go else where or just quit.

And there’s a dozen ways to make it not worth their time...

Example, one market I tried had a $10 table fee…. Then said I had to have canopy tent over my table. It was $20 to rent a canopy tent or I could buy my own. The next week I could spend $120 to buy a white one. Only white...

I also had to park 100yrds from my table. So I hand carried a 150lbs of peaches, vegetables and the organic charcoal I made, plus at tent, and chair. Alabama summer, 90F temps, so I had cooler, water. They want another $10 to rent one of their 'carts' for bringing my goods to the table... but it couldn't be parked by my table, I had to return it right away.

A guy with a truck load of produce wants to park right behind his table. Counting fuel I was out $80 before I sold a single peach and lost extra time I couldn’t get back.

You can guess what I told the market organizers when I left that day!!! After 2hrs in the heat they didn’t have 50 shoppers total. Maybe half were actually buyers. It was a small market where a serious grower couldn’t make a lot of money but organizers made it so they could make none at all. The organizers created a money pit. It lasted 2 seasons before folding up. Jelly, heirloom tomatoes and kale can’t sustain a small market.

They forgot the basic function of a good farmers market… to provide quality fruits and veggies at below supermarket prices. To do that you need a few serious growers and a lot of part-timers.

A side note… that year I found a market for my excess produce. I drove a mile away to the herbal medicine shop/organic and natural market, also had a healthy soup and sandwich cafe inside, lots of sprouts. Anyway, I made a deal with the manger. I sold my produce and the charcoal to him, discounted but… BUT!!!

I had a trial period. Then, since my product sold well I had a standing order each week. Any veggies I didn’t sell elsewhere for the next 2 years, they sold my charcoal for 3. I even bagged diatomaceous earth and crushed volcanic rock in small bags sold it to them for resale. I bought volcanic rock by the ton and DE 200lbs a time and used it here on the farm for my crops/pastures. Over a season it made me more cash too. No excess produce was ever lost. I had less overhead, fuel and time.

All it took was one ‘farmer’s market’ to charge me fee after fee and waste my time. Cost me more than they earned me. I went and found a regular market for my excess produce. I expanded and sold a lot of diatomaceous earth and crushed volcanic rock too.

Serious growers will find a good market for their goods. Part timers need to at least break even or feel they are making a little. They won’t sell at a money pit either.

Diatomaceous Earth bagged and ready for resale.

 

[Pearl]

A lot of people in my area set up on roadsides if they have extra produce! There is a family on one main roads out here who put out a sign when they have produce for sale. If the sign is out you can pull down their driveway to see what they have. They sell whatever they have extra that day!

 

[d_marsh]

A lot of people in my area set up on roadsides if they have extra produce! There is a family on one main roads out here who put out a sign when they have produce for sale. If the sign is out you can pull down their driveway to see what they have. They sell whatever they have extra that day!

Ditto. Roadside stands are the "farmer's market" that I go to. And I frequently find things that far exceed what you can buy in stores.

 

[sonya123]

not sure if I should reply to this thread or not.....it will completely contradict what Peanut wrote....sorry Peanut

We have been selling at one of the local markets for around 7 years now. It seems to get bigger every year, and we sell more every year so far. The prices at our market are much higher than walmart prices. We sell eggs for example for $5 a carton, and that's a good deal, others sell them for $6 and even $8 a carton. Produce you can get for less in summer when in season, but we sell our meat for no less than $10 a pound for ground. A whole chicken is $4 a pound ( so around 20-30$ a chicken)
A lot of our customers are wealthy college professors. We have people buying ground goat at $10 a pound for their dogs....
Probably not a lot of poor people shopping there. We do get some young people that just want to eat healthy food also. We have like 3 vendors selling microgreens. Poor people don't buy that sort of thing , they go to walmart and buy chips and hot dogs

One thing I think that could cause problems for a market : if you let it get so big that the individual vendors don't make any money. Or if the market turns into something else, like people just come there to eat , drink and listen to music , stuff like that.

one more thing: we don't make any profit, we sell basically what it costs us to produce the meat at least. Raising animals in a humane not factory farm way cost a lot of money. Processing the animals at a local meat processor that does not have illegals employed costs a lot too. You get what you pay for. Good meat from healthy good animals, or pasty pink mystery meat from who knows where at walmart

 

[Pearl]

not sure if I should reply to this thread or not.....it will completely contradict what Peanut wrote....sorry Peanut

We have been selling at one of the local markets for around 7 years now. It seems to get bigger every year, and we sell more every year so far. The prices at our market are much higher than walmart prices. We sell eggs for example for $5 a carton, and that's a good deal, others sell them for $6 and even $8 a carton. Produce you can get for less in summer when in season, but we sell our meat for no less than $10 a pound for ground. A whole chicken is $4 a pound ( so around 20-30$ a chicken)
A lot of our customers are wealthy college professors. We have people buying ground goat at $10 a pound for their dogs....
Probably not a lot of poor people shopping there. We do get some young people that just want to eat healthy food also. We have like 3 vendors selling microgreens. Poor people don't buy that sort of thing , they go to walmart and buy chips and hot dogs

One thing I think that could cause problems for a market : if you let it get so big that the individual vendors don't make any money. Or if the market turns into something else, like people just come there to eat , drink and listen to music , stuff like that.

one more thing: we don't make any profit, we sell basically what it costs us to produce the meat at least. Raising animals in a humane not factory farm way cost a lot of money. Processing the animals at a local meat processor that does not have illegals employed costs a lot too. You get what you pay for. Good meat from healthy good animals, or pasty pink mystery meat from who knows where at walmart

I was hoping you would chime in!! I think markets are good or bad depending on the needs of the buyers! The market Patchouli mentioned gets a lot of visitors from the bigger cities. It is as gotten expensive! There are not many small sellers! When the small sellers leave, the market isn't as good!!

 

[Peanut]

not sure if I should reply to this thread or not.....it will completely contradict what Peanut wrote....sorry Peanut

Not at all, 70% of what I wrote was about small town markets in a rural area of the state. In the first post I started with...

...Per capita income near the market decides which methods can help or destroy a market....

There is a market like you describe in jefferson county al, Birmingham population 700K. It has the money and people to support those kind of prices.

One market I sold at... pickens county had only 19K people in the whole county. Neighboring counties were the same. Some days half my money was Wic coupons from the state, a usda food assistance program.

The OP didn't describe the size of his market or the population within 40miles. It makes a big difference in how a market works.

So, no, we're good... I wish I could have gotten $5 for a carton of eggs. The going price here in $3. That barely pays for the feed. It's why I quit selling eggs, no money to be made.

 

[sonya123]

Not at all, 70% of what I wrote was about small town markets in a rural area of the state. In the first post I started with...

...Per capita income near the market decides which methods can help or destroy a market....

There is a market like you describe in jefferson county al, population 700K. It has the money and people to support those kind of prices.

One market I sold at... pickens county had only 19K people in the whole county. Neighboring counties were the same. Some days half my money was Wic coupons from the state, a usda food assistance program.

The OP didn't describe the size of his market or the population within 40miles. It makes a big difference in how a market works.

So, no, we're good... I wish I could have gotten $5 for a carton of eggs. The going price here in $3. That barely pays for the feed. It's why I quit selling eggs, no money to be made.

actually, the town the market is in ( almost hour away from us) has around 16000 people in it

but no, we don't make any money really, but we are not exactly doing it for money
If we just wanted to make money we would have stayed in Florida and kept our jobs....

The biggest problem our market has is location. We have now moved 3 times and are currently in a museum parking lot and field
it's not easy to find a place to set up a market

oh and to give you some idea, we sold around $6000 of things at the market last year and we usually only go every other week

 

[Peanut]

has around 16000 people...

oh and to give you some idea, we sold around $6000 of things at the market last year and we usually only go every other week

The local population density dictates how a market can work, what can be sold, prices, every detail.

I was selling more than $6K a year but my overhead was higher. We picked peaches every other day. At peak times we'd go to market 5 or 6 times a week. Some days I'd take a truck load to one town, dad would take another load to a different town.

I was 90miles one way from a market like yours. It wasn't feasible for me, 4hr drive round trip, plus fuel costs.

Wish the OP had been a bit more specific about his market. I could only write about the markets I knew. Might not be applicable to his situation.

 

[Peanut]

microgreens. Poor people don't buy that sort of thing , they go to walmart and buy chips and hot dogs

I saw the Wic program work where I sold, to some extent anyway. Especially for the elderly. They came to buy fresh produce every week. Probably the only good food they got all year.

I had to go every winter to the county extension office for a refresher on the Wic program so I could then accept wic coupons in the summer.

The only difficult part, we couldn't give change. But there were legitimate ways to work with that.

Say and elderly lady had a $7 coupon. She wanted $4 of my peaches and $3 of tomatoes from another vendor. Maybe it was stretching the rules but I'd buy the tomatoes from the other guy then resale them at cost to the lady. I took the $7 coupon and gave the lady $7 of fresh food. Most vendors would do the same. Didn't really break any rules, maybe, but every cent of the coupon went to food like it was supposed to.

Funny story... The county had a NATS bus (north alabama transportation system). They'd give rides to the needy and elderly around town. They'd bring them to the farmers market also.

One day the bus was at the market and I saw another seller carrying a long watermelon onto the bus for an old lady. Next she came to my table to buy peaches. Of course I carried them onto the bus and put them where she said... it was all I could do to keep a straight face! She had the other vendor sit the long melon into a seat on it's end and put the seat belt on it. It looked so funny... put a hat and smiley face on it and it'd have looked like a little green kid strapped in for a ride.

 

[SoulSeeker]

Here in Las Vegas we have a "farmers market" that is an organic only store. The fruits are very small and do not look good. Someone was stating organic chickens, range free and no bug eating. Tell me, how can a free range chicken not eat any bugs? Is there someone keeping an eye on them? As soon as you walked in you got hit with the stench of bad produce. The whole place gave me the willies. Way too expensive for what they had and no appeal.

 

[sonya123]

Here in Las Vegas we have a "farmers market" that is an organic only store. The fruits are very small and do not look good. Someone was stating organic chickens, range free and no bug eating. Tell me, how can a free range chicken not eat any bugs? Is there someone keeping an eye on them? As soon as you walked in you got hit with the stench of bad produce. The whole place gave me the willies. Way too expensive for what they had and no appeal.

we try to be as organic as possible ( we are not certified organic) but the fruit trees need fruit tree spay to produce anything worth eating, haven't found another way
We also feed some grain to our animals. They just do better on a little grain in winter and imo , they taste better too. They get too skinny and the meat is sort of more tough when they only get grass and hay