My Ensuite Bathroom Reno- Project #2

[havasu]

Replace every rotten board. You have no other choice.
My house had a no lip jacuzzi installed when we purchased it. For several years, water seeped behind the grout (no caulking) and when we removed it, the water damage ate every piece of wood for 6 feet. I was surprised that wall had not collapsed. For less than $200, we replaced all wood and that wall is now dry and safe.

 

[zannej]

I wish wood was that cheap now. I think it would be over $200 to replace that at this point. it is bone dry and doesn't seem to have any moisture left. I think some of the crud on it may also be old adhesive when I look at it more closely. The old panel that deteriorated was glued up.

 

[zannej]

Photos of the demo. I've decided to use furring strips with shims behind them to pad out the wall to support the cementboard.

 

[zannej]

 

[zannej]

More furring strips up and I added 1x4s. Since my friend wasn't responding to let me borrow his miter saw I ended up cutting everything with a jigsaw-- but I had new blades and a full battery this time.
I also figured out a better cutting technique.
The dark plywood was scrap that I found on the porch and cut down. Was almost 9' long and about 12-1/2" wide. Took me an hour to cut it bc I only had an old dull blade. Got a better brand new blades and figured out a better cutting technique. Didn't help that I had to sit on the toilet seat lid and hold the board on my lap while cutting. Went through 2 batteries. Charged them both up on my rapid charger afterward. Found a 3rd battery lying around that I need to charge.
This was with the plywood up:

More furring strips

1x4s added

It's plumb vertically in the middle but I need to shim out the sides a little. The top 1x4 is where the cementboard pieces meet so I wanted to have support for them. I actually glued up some of the smaller pieces with Titebond2. It takes a couple minutes to grab, but it holds well once it does. Had to take the cap off bc I couldn't get anything to come out of the tip (even though its brand new). Washed the tip in warm water and cleaned it out with a q-tip and it worked briefly but it squeezed all the air out and wouldn't let air back in so I had to take the tip off again. I need a better dispenser for it. Got one of those silicone glue spreaders that helped a lot.

After I get these walls plumb I'm going to see what I can do to square up the adjacent walls. I'm debating whether or not to add another 1x4 under the lower piece of plywood to have less of a gap

 

[havasu]

With the amount of carpenter ant and termite damage I've seen in your walls, less wood is better. If you need that wall built out, why not just use a few pieces of concrete backer board to fill the gap?

 

[zannej]

That damage was done a very long time ago (from before we bought the house) and we have the number for the exterminator in case we see any signs of the little buggers again. Wood is easier to cut and deal with and it isn't as brittle as cementboard. I know how to work with wood more than cementboard and the panels are a bit heavy so I feel more comfortable using the wood-- if that makes sense. I can always spray inside the wall with something that repels wood-chewing critters before sealing it up.

Added more support in on the right side:

It needs more shimming but if it doesn't end up perfectly plumb I can make up for it with some thinset afterward. So long as it is sturdy and will hold the surround in place I'll be happy.

 

[havasu]

I believe the thinset will not bond to the glue needed for the tub surround. Shim to level, and only use thinset for the seams and screw holes, over the mesh tape.

 

[zannej]

I believe the thinset will not bond to the glue needed for the tub surround. Shim to level, and only use thinset for the seams and screw holes, over the mesh tape.

Yeah, I think that will be the better idea. I'm using some sort of Loctite adhesive that was recommended for the surround but I haven't checked to see what it bonds with. Plus it would use more thinset and shims are cheaper. I'm going to try to see if my friend can help me get it all plumb. It helps to have an extra pair of hands.

 

[zannej]

Progress has been slower than snail's pace. Added more notes to the boards behind the wall. I think I'm going to leave a letter inside a bottle in the wall before we cover it all up-- also going to sprinkle diatomaceous earth in there for good measure. I want to write "I'm board" on one of the boards in there but trying to figure out which one to do it on.

I measured and wrote down the height of screws. Marked stud locations. Marked voids to avoid driving screws in certain areas. I drew some of that on the side walls for now. I will transfer some notes to the back wall cementboard once it is up.

I want to hang the plastic sheathing up but my stupid arm is not wanting to cooperate. I pulled the muscles again taking the cap off my deodorant of all things. Also got a minor paper cut from the cardboard box when I removed the wallset. LOL. Also can't seem to lift the cementboard-- may see if my brother can help me with that later.

I did manage to get plastic lining in the tub and taped it up with painter's tape. I wrote on the tape to mark screw locations. I need to make a cheat sheet to write all of the measurements down so I can reference it if I'm not able to read the tape for some reason.

My plan is to get the bottom back wall cementboard piece into the tub and coat the edges in Aquadefense. Then temporarily set it in place and figure out what to do with the side walls to make it square. Probably need to break out the actual shims instead of paint stirring sticks. I do also want to set the other cementboard places in temporarily and do a dry fit of the cementboard so I can mark where to cut the boards off.
Wallsets out of that massive box (I've since cleaned the crud off the floor-- it was pieces of the wood paneling that fell off the old glue up stuff).

All shimmed out on the back wall and screws marked (might need to add more screws in the middle of the top piece of plywood but will put the level on it first.

Tub lined with plastic:

Cat tax

 

[Swing]

I like the kitty holding down the bit of molding.

 

[zannej]

I like the kitty holding down the bit of molding.

That's Sir Hammington. He was sitting on the old corner shelf.

I managed to get one of the cementboards into the tub but my arm really hates me. It was already not happy with other heavy lifting I did earlier. My friend is going on a 7 day cruise-- leaving Friday-- so I have to proceed as much as I can without him. He will have to get teeth pulled when he gets back and won't be able to lift anything for a few days. I'll have to see how much help I can get from my brother. I have a feeling it will be like 2 of the 3 stooges with him helping.

I'm going to put aquadefense on the board and see if I can get my brother to help me do a dry fit of the cementboard once I have the edges covered in aquadefense.

 

[havasu]

You are taping and thinsetting the corners, seams and screw holes, right?

 

[zannej]

You are taping and thinsetting the corners, seams and screw holes, right?

Correct. I'm just using the aquadefense as extra protection just in case. I already bought it so might as well use it. Apparently tape and thinset can be put over aquadefense so I might put some on all of the screws before putting the tape over. The surround calls for roofing nails in a certain spot and I will caulk around those before putting up the center back wall. The sides have to be put on first and they overlap the back about 6" on each side. Roofing nails are used at the very edge. I will try to pre-drill (obviously with a bit smaller than the nails) so they don't crack the cementboard. I'll need to get my drywall/cabinet hanging thingies back from my friend to help brace the wallset while the glue sets up.

Any tips for cruise ship travel? Friends have never been on a ship before. I hope they won't need passports to go anywhere. I think Belize is one of the places.

 

[havasu]

The roofing nails must be hammered loosely in the slots. They need to expand and contract, so do not caulk or cover them. They are heavily galvanized, so they won't rust, and the big head stops them from pulling out of their track.

 

[zannej]

The roofing nails must be hammered loosely in the slots. They need to expand and contract, so do not caulk or cover them. They are heavily galvanized, so they won't rust, and the big head stops them from pulling out of their track.

There are no tracks. They are to tack down the edge of the side piece of surround that bends 90° and extends 6" on the back wall. They go behind the center piece of the surround.

I want to put a little bit of caulk on the edge where the nail head is over cement board instead of the surround edge. Just something to help seal it a bit better. Excess caulk will be wiped away before it can dry.

I got two coats of the aquadefense on three edges of the first piece of cement board that will go up. Had a lot of trouble moving it because my left arm is not cooperating. It would only let me lift a few inches so I had to use the tub edge as leverage. Fortunately, I have a contour mat on the edge so it buffered. Messed up the tape and plastic a little bit but it can be put back in place.

I'm going to do the 3rd edge today once my body starts cooperating.

 

[havasu]

I would not even start painting with Aquadefense until the cement board is cut, taped and set with thinset. If that paint on crap stops the thinset from bonding, you will be wasting your time and a lot of money.

 

[zannej]

The manufacturer said its designed to coat the entire panel (if need be) and then thinset over because it forms such a strong bond. It's designed to go under thinset and tile. I'm only doing the very edges with very little overlap. The board that I used it on doesn't need to be cut. I'm not going to coat the whole board though. Just edges that won't get thinset over them. I'll also hit the insides of holes that get cut and edges from cuts.

I've already got the one board coated on all edges (well, only 1 coat on the 4th edge that is drying right now). Thinset can be put on it with as little as 30min after it is applied but can also be put on once it is completely dry. It's taking longer to dry because of the humidity here so I'm giving it over 2 hours dry time.

I wouldn't be putting it on if it weren't designed to go under thinset. I asked the manufacturer and checked the Q&A on it and watched various videos where it was put on and then thinset was applied over. I'm using small amounts-- barely used any of it and I wrapped the brush in plastic so it stays wet.

I do appreciate the advice though. Do you still think caulking around the nails is a bad idea? If so, I'll refrain from it. I'm still debating whether I should pre-drill the nail holes slightly because I don't want the cementboard to crack. Although, I suppose I can put the mesh tape over where I'm nailing as extra reinforcement. My main concern is the hammer action breaking cementboard because I am clumsy as hell and I tend to miss. LOL.

 

[zannej]

Someone on the flooring forums said that thinset bonds very well to aquadefense so I feel a little better.
Trying to figure out how to deal with this stupid gap:

 

[havasu]

Remember, your tub surround is completely waterproof. Only if it is not installed correctly that you will get water penetration. Shim the right side with paint stir sticks hot glued to wood, apply backer board, fiberglass tape and thinset, and then if you want to paint, then paint until your happy. Apply plastic liner, seal edges, add faucet, and get your brother in the shower. STAT!

And do a cat count, so one doesn't end up sleeping inside the walls!

 

[zannej]

Thanks!
I've been keeping the cats out of there as much as possible and always do a head count at feeding time.
The tape and plastic didn't last, but I had some recollection of where screws were and was able to dry fit the cementboard-- although it was a pain. I still need to tweak it a bit. The adhesive is supposed to be 1/4" thick so that should make up for imperfections so long as they are less than that. I just dissected a rotisserie chicken and still have some grease on my fingers so my cat is licking them as I'm trying to type. LOL.

Current view:

Left side took two spacers to get 1/4" gap from tub. Right side took about 5 of them to be level. It's still off a hair but It shouldn't matter bc the top board will be cut off evenly, but I still had to raise up the edge so the board would actually fit. With it up I will be able to get shims in the right spots for the left board.

I managed to have my level fall down behind the board after I put one screw in and had to remove it and then get the level out. Felt like an idiot. LOL. Since I have so much aquadefense I'm thinking of coating the entire backside in it but that would take more time. I won't be able to do some parts until my friend is back and he'll have to get teeth pulled so I'm looking at week and a half to two weeks before he can help me again.

I'm debating whether or not to put plastic up if I do aquadefense. I probably will just in case-- IF I can get it up and it doesn't cause problems. I'm probably going to need pliers to get the spacers out from under that board. The stuff built up a little on the back on the edges (I couldn't see it when I was working on it) so I'll have to chisel that off to make the edges flat. The board was already bowing a bit in the middle from how it was propped up.

In addition to paint stirring sticks, I have popsicle stick type things from the craft section. They are thinner and can be used for shimming out. I can glue them to the paint sticks. I can also use composite shims, although they might be harder to cut and break than wooden ones, but that's ok. I can glue them all in place. That Titebond stuff works well once it dries.

I did take a chunk of 1x2 and tape part of a paint stirring stick to it and then cram it behind the board in one spot so I could run a screw through. I came in with a wood screw at the top of the scrap to secure it to the stud so it will stay put when I remove the cement board to clean it up some more.

Since it won't have tile or anything too heavy on it I'm not going to go crazy with the screws on top and bottom. I'll add a few more on the sides perhaps.

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions.

Hmm.. I wonder if Mom has a hot glue gun. I can always ask her. I think she might.

 

[zannej]

I ended up buying a Gorilla mini hot glue gun and used the Gorilla brand glue sticks. Fullsize hot glue gun was a lot more expensive and they didn't have the glue sticks for it locally. Plus I wanted something compact. Mini one is just the right size for my hand and is easy to squeeze the trigger. It's so much easier than I remember. And the glue is also better than stuff I worked with in the past. I managed to get through today's gluing without getting any on my hands or fingers at all. It grabs pretty strongly as well. I did get the 8" sticks because they last longer and its less reloading than the 4" ones.

I need to contend with the issue of the plywood panel on the right wall bowing in the middle. I'll have to add some bracing inside the wall for the plumbing stuff-- want to make sure the drop ell, valve and tub spout are secure. I'm using holdrite bracket for the spout rough-in.

My photos suck because I was having a hard time getting the correct angle. Too much stuff in the room.

Left wall. I will mark where NOT to drill into with screws- like where all the little pieces of craft sticks are on top. They are there to support the board. I got the inside corner of the left wall a bit skewed but hopefully it won't be a problem when its time to put the board up. I need to move stuff to get a cement board up on that side. I shimmed out where the grab bar will go. I'm considering adding more shims above and below just to have more support on the back, but I think it should be ok as I won't be driving screws in the middle. I used different sized craft sticks to make the slant a bit more gradual. I haven't found a good place to store that 10' L bead. I really need to cut it to the height of the ceiling so it can stand upright.

Right side-- I will need to shim up more on the edges-- particularly the outer edge. Inside edge won't matter quite as much as that is a joint with thinset. Come to think of it, I will be using thinset on the outer edge for the L-bead so that should work out ok. Thinset can help make up for minor imperfections and since the surround has some flex it doesn't have to be perfect, but I'm going to do my best.

Wonky center picture. I held the phone up at the wrong angle. LOL.

I took all but one screw out of that cement board and it barely moved so it is holding in place fairly well. I marked a line where the top is on the board behind to make sure it goes back in place better after I put the plastic up. I'm very tempted to try to dry fit a cement board on there if I can lift it and get it to fit. I really don't want to wait possibly 2 weeks for my friend to be able to help. LOL.

Anyway, I do need some advice though. I have spacers that have different sizes. I think from 1/16" to 1/8" and stacked a certain way they are 1/4". I have a 1/4" gap on the left side and I had to use 5 shims (stacked in different ways so I haven't measured the actual height) on the right side. I know the surround will also have to be shimmed to be level but I'm wondering if I should have the right side cementboard at the same vertical height/gap as the adjacent board, or should I shim it to 1/4"? I was concerned that it might show behind the wallset if it was too low, but I have 3/4" instatrim (which I think is the hypotenuse length rather than height/depth) to cover gaps.

So, 1/4" gap or same gap as end of adjacent board?

 

[havasu]

Do what it takes to place a framing square where all corners meet at 90 degrees

 

[zannej]

Do what it takes to place a framing square where all corners meet at 90 degrees

I have a big orange framing square that I used to check. That was how I figured out how many sticks I needed to stack up. I also have a 4' level that I've been using to determine if it's plumb vertically.

 

[zannej]

Ok, it was an orange triangle thingy. I think a framing square is an L? I might have one somewhere. I know I used to have one. I can always get another one if need be.

I wasn't happy with the positioning of the cement board. It wasn't perfectly level so removed the one screw from the top middle and moved it to the top left so it could pivot a little. Arm was feeling well enough for me to lift a bit and shim. I got some wooden slats on clearance that I was able to use. Two of those plus about 3 or 4 craft sticks & I got it level. I put screws in each corner to hold it on, then I dragged another cement board over. I attempted to lift it high enough to get on the tub edge but left arm wasn't cooperating. Ended up starting to tip over and I almost fell into the tub with it. I caught myself and managed to slow the fall of the board and got it to slide instead of slam. Then I got it upright and used my foot underneath to lift it up onto the toilet so I could slide it over onto the tub. It needs to bump into the corner a bit more and I will have to shim under it 1/4". Need to have a 1/8" gap in the corner. I put tape on it so it won't fall forward. I want to get another board on the other side but will have to move stuff out of the way for it to hang over the edge. Once I have them shimmed and positioned I can pop in some screws, remove shims, dry fit the surround, and mark where to cut. Then I can take them down, cut them, apply aquadefense, etc.

As an aside, I want to make some curtains out of some fabric I already have.
I like the style with 2 panels that meet in the middle and then are pulled back with ties making an upside down V shape sort of. But I like this shape valance:

I want the curtain header to be smooth and not have ruffles or anything sticking up though. Like this:

 

[Frodo]

Interesting color

 

[Wingnut]

Hey, Zannej, good luck with your project! I'm doing my own bathroom renovation(s), I'm tired of putting off the work and I just wanna get it done. Beautiful day outside, and windy too, which is good, that'll set up a nice air current in my home and let that Behr paint cure. The best part of home rehab work is when it's FINISHED, lol... CHEERS!!!

 

[zannej]

Frodo, neither of those are the actual color. I'm either going to have the same color as Mom's curtains or something slightly lighter but within the same color range. I'll have to dig out the lighter fabric and get a picture later. I might not be able to get enough of it. The fabric in this picture is the color I might go with. For sure its what I'm using for Mom's curtains. I forgot to crop out the background-- that's not dirt/dust for once, it's diatomaceous earth. LOL.

Thanks, Wingnut! I hope your project goes smoothly. Behr is pricey but its good stuff.
I discovered something odd: When I put the level on the tub on the left side to check level front to back it shows it is level. But after using the same size shims and putting cementboard on the top of the board was not level and I had to use more shims. Ok, I thought maybe the board was cut crooked. But then I did a dry fit with the tub surround wall and it too had to be shimmed more to be level. Either I'm doing something wrong or I don't know what is going on. I'll have my friend check when he comes over tomorrow.

 

[zannej]

My friend didn't believe me at first about how many shims were needed to get the cementboard level. Then I showed him. I told him it took 2 of the slats and 5 of the larger sticks to get the back one level on the right side. I had counted so I remembered. Got vapor barrier up, cement boards all secured & cut to size, & the surround dry-fitted. I forgot to take a picture between putting up the back piece and the sides after the vapor barrier went up. Also forgot to get a picture after the sides were cut to fit. I'll get those later but right now my back is screaming at me so I'm resting. I was so determined to get things done that I went and removed the boards while my friend was taking a break so he could put up the vapor barrier when he got back. He was surprised but was happy about it. He had to help me get them back in place because my arm was having trouble. I also used tape with writing to mark where it was and was not safe to drive screws. While he was taking another break I finished putting in all of the screws.

We had to use screws in the gap between the bottom & top board to help with spacing & help support the top board. I drilled small holes where the controls and showerhead will go (through the wood) and stuck toothpicks in so the holes can be located on the other side to drill from that side to make it through the layers & then do the full drilling/hole cutting from the opposite side.

Brain is wanting to clock out on me so I'll post the photos that I took.

 

[zannej]

Here is the surround with more tape (I cropped the pic so it wouldn't be as wide & focused on what I wanted to show)

I test-fit the L-bead trim on the right side and it looks good (this one is also cropped)- I found that the corner of the wall distracted the eye from the trim.

I may leave the tear-away bead on because I like how it looks.

The trim was 10' long and I cut 58" off for the side. I can either use that piece on the back top horizontally or cut it in half to go over the sides horizontally & cut off excess, or run it up the other side and trim off excess (of ~2").