Protocol for Establishing Dialogue post SHTF

Homesteading & Country Living Forum

Help Support Homesteading & Country Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Gazrok

Awesome Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,491
Location
Florida
So, it's been weeks since the SHTF, and someone (or a group of someones) stumble upon your property. They don't immediately attack, but now comes the dangerous part....

How do you talk to each other without risking your safety?

Here's what I came up with. Equipment wise, it relies on having rechargeable batteries, a solar charger (for said batteries), a remote control truck (ideally a few, all taking the same batteries).

First step is signage. We're going to have signs up stating terms of dialogue and trade, that are very clear. Follow the steps, or get shot on sight. We're willing to help and trade, but we're also going to prize our safety first.

Step 1. ONE person (only) approaches the outer gate. This gate is locked with a combination padlock. It has a small opening about the size of a small pet door. All others must stand back. To indicate the desire to talk, must wave their arms, and wait for a radio to be sent to them. By this time, sentries have rifles trained on person and group.

Step 2. Using the remote control truck, a handheld radio (cheaper version) is sent out to the outer gate. Attached are instructions, including a warning that any attempt to take or damage the truck or radio will be seen as hostile, and such folks will be shot on sight. A water bottle and granola bar is included for good faith.

Step 3. Dialogue. We'll converse, and assuming all goes well, go to the next step. Combination to the outer gate is given (will be changed after any such encounter), and the ONE person is allowed to proceed to the inner gate, after locking the gate back with another combination lock in the toy truck (different combo and type, so we'll know against a switch), bringing the initial combo lock with him. If more than one try to come in, warning shot, then shooting on sight.

Step 4. Approaching the inner gate. Instructions in the truck tell the person to strip down to undergarments and approach with hands held on their head, as well as rotating slowly so we can see there are no weapons behind the back, etc. The truck is driven back (along with radio). All the while, guns still trained on the person/s.

Step 5. Person is greeted by one of our people at the front gate ((one of our military folks, primarily our cop/ex marine/ex amateur MMA fighter) wearing bulletproof vest and helmet, like the sentries and anyone else out there....we'll have vests for all, but for now, two. (and we already have the helmets). Person is checked for weapons, etc. Dialogue then continues (where any companions of the person can see the discussion, but this is about 400 feet or so from main gate). Keep in mind, during all of this, sentries are on HIGH alert, checking ALL of the perimeter, and checking in with any scout/s.

Actions from this point all depend on the person's needs, group's needs, etc. and how the discussion went. They may need food and water, and be willing to trade/work for it, or may need some of our other goods/services we plan to offer. Always, the idea that they could be a feint or threat is still present.

There are additional protocols for how to treat someone who needs medical treatment, needs shelter, etc., but this post is primarily about first contact. Those protocols include keeping the person/group comfortable, but confined to quarters during sleeping hours, and accompanied when not. (stable stalls work well for this). Sounds bad, but post SHTF, these are 12'x12' areas with (barred) window and locking barred gate, and we'd of course have cots in there, each has water tap, etc. Not exactly the Hilton, but better than laying down in the woods, and a whole lot safer, etc.

Of course, feel free to point out flaws, potential pitfalls, etc. Obviously, no way to eliminate all risk, but at least we can try and minimize it as best we can. While it is easy to just say shoot any that come, I still want to retain some humanity also.
 
I don't see any issues with that, but I'm not exactly a tactical expert either.

There are additional protocols for how to treat someone who needs medical treatment, needs shelter, etc.
This is even tougher I think because once they are inside they start absorbing intel about your setup, but if they are genuine you would like to help. Even if it's innocent they can divulge such information later to third parties just by bragging at the bar or even worse selling the intel to a group of marauders. I suppose ideally you should have a quarantine area but who's got the resources for that? Maybe a hut between your inner and outer perimeters so you can help people in real need and provide shelter and relative safety for a while, but they never get inside proper. Maybe your stables are located such that they are outside the inner "keep".

Such people may be able to help in the fields or something that doesn't give them access to anything that's not obvious from the outside anyway.

At some point you may decide to ingest a person or group because they seem to be on the same page and have useful skills, that's a really big call for many reasons, not the least of which is that having done so you can't really ever let them leave.
 
Ive often thought about the two gates setup my self..and the idea ive thought of is this..
Have said person(s) come in throuh 1st gate in which THEY will close and lock shut with slide bolts.

2nd set of gates will remain closed and locked from inside of property.and thered be a gard shack at one cornner of that gate.and itll have gun port(s) for rifles to be aimed into the area between the gates..the main outside wallof gard shack would have at least 1/8 inch thick steel wall..then a wooden wall over that

Thered be a intercom for communication.one for them.another in gard house.and a3rd up in the main house
 
I suppose ideally you should have a quarantine area but who's got the resources for that? Maybe a hut between your inner and outer perimeters so you can help people in real need and provide shelter and relative safety for a while, but they never get inside proper. Maybe your stables are located such that they are outside the inner "keep".

Yes, the stables are located pretty much outside the "inner keep". Plus, they can be locked and guarded.

The two gate setup already exists here. Granted, fences aren't impregnable, but they sure make you an easy target as you try to circumvent them.

Instead of a guard shack, I'm building concrete block "planters" that post SHTF, can simply have the soil and plants removed to then be pillboxes. So, the sentries would have a fortified firing position to shoot from. These planters are being placed to cover different vantage points and firing arcs.

I typically treat tactics as a puzzle, and once I have the tactics, I then try to imagine ways to thwart my own ideas, assuming that if I can think of it, so can someone else. Nothing is full-proof, and there will always be risk, but if I can minimize it, I'm certainly looking to do so.
 
instead of a radio, try a battery operated baby monitor instead. this way if they are whispering bout anything, you coulf pick it up too
 
Not a bad idea, I just wonder about range there. It's a distance of about 500'.
 
So, it's been weeks since the SHTF, and someone (or a group of someones) stumble upon your property. They don't immediately attack, but now comes the dangerous part....
.



Without giving up to much of our plan Gazrok and remaining within OPSEC protocols. Did you ever consider another option for communication in investing in old TA 312 Field Phone, running one of them to the road/fence with WD-1 wire. Sure would save on the ability of using a remote controlled truck/exposing yourself and also giving up one of your radios.

Also if your bringing them into the wire, I'd let them know that a waterproof binder with your protocols located near the phone. In your protocols, you explain to them that the person who is representing the group will be hooded, for their safety and yours. At your protected ECP, I would place earplugs in their ears and also place a hood over them before bringing them fully into your compound. I would conduct any discussions in a darkened/no window room. Your LE can explain why...

Hope this helps
 
Last edited:
i like the idea of the field telephone. but I also like the idea of a baby monitor too as it allows u to spy on them.
 
the idea of a fieldphone is great,you should be able to get those as surplus easily and when they are military gear they shgould be robust aswell
 
Did you ever consider another option for communication in investing in old TA 312 Field Phone, running one of them to the road/fence with WD-1 wire. Sure would save on the ability of using a remote controlled truck/exposing yourself and also giving up one of your radios.

I have. Though I just started checking into it. I like the idea of using this for each sentry station too, just that we need an option for those who are mobile too.
 
I get your hyper security measures, I mean, you should be doing this stuff now to all strangers. I hope that you have an area that's protected from the weather for stripping you guests down, they are people after all, maybe fellow preppers who happened to lose everything and recognized your set up as a good place of refuge. As far as blindfolds go, I understand it, but in post SHTF, would you want to put a hood over your head to talk to someone? I don't know anyone who, already nervous wants to go through this, how do they know you aren't some crazy one? Why not just keep them from your place altogether? Sure, if they are truly suspicious, go ahead, I know you want to anyway. Showing a little dignity is not a sign of weakness.
 
I do agree the TA 312, there are other surplus field phones but I'm not sure how good they are, is a good idea for communications, way more weather resistant then the radios and no possibility of someone finding your channel over the airwaves, unless they connect into the cord, and that is a definitely nefarious act.
 
I don't plan on blindfolding everyone. As for the strip down, Underwear is still pretty modest, and to be honest, I doubt many folks will be prudes after the SHTF. As for why allow them in the first place, it's for the potential of trade. Hopefully, they'll have something we can use for providing something they can use, even if just labor for food, etc.
 
I have. Though I just started checking into it. I like the idea of using this for each sentry station too, just that we need an option for those who are mobile too.

Gazrok, TA312 field phone will if you plan to use it like a net for all your stations it would require you to get a surplus SB-22 Switchboard, from that point you could run WD-1 wire to as many points as you have field phones.

As for the replacement 838 touch-tone phones pretty hard to fine unless you have the money, either way, I don't think they work with the TA-312's.

The Swedish forces have a similar fieldphone, can't remember but it was an M37 series, but don't quote me on it, but they tie into the TA312 and SB-22 Switch also. Just in case you run into a few of them, they are alternatives.
 
I get your hyper security measures, I mean, you should be doing this stuff now to all strangers. I hope that you have an area that's protected from the weather for stripping you guests down, they are people after all, maybe fellow preppers who happened to lose everything and recognized your set up as a good place of refuge. As far as blindfolds go, I understand it, but in post SHTF, would you want to put a hood over your head to talk to someone? I don't know anyone who, already nervous wants to go through this, how do they know you aren't some crazy one? Why not just keep them from your place altogether? Sure, if they are truly suspicious, go ahead, I know you want to anyway. Showing a little dignity is not a sign of weakness.


Your right on keeping them away from our BOL. We are talking about those who are so desperate the will go the extra lengths of making contact. In most cases, provided our team is not exhausted and doesn't overlook them, we will be greeting them way before they get to our inner defensive circle, in that case, it will be the open palm method, and the pad down. While I agree with the dignity issue and the issue of fear factor regarding our procedures, its simply another layer of security that we apply. I've vetted a few of my former intel folks and security forces people, these are people who actually agreed that the option was sound. I know it sounds a bit over-the-top to handle people in this way, but if we are truly in a SHTF event, do we chance the fact that these people who we hardly know; could not represent a larger OPFOR or roving band. Like I said, the sign at the front, would reflect our procedures, if the group doesn't want to abide by them, they can certainly move on or discuss it over the phone.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the a surplus amount of money...I'd invest in the security system we had over at Bagram, granted it wasn't completely without problems, it sure made up the difference at night, when the Taliban were trying to get into our wire.
 
So, it's been weeks since the SHTF, and someone (or a group of someones) stumble upon your property. They don't immediately attack, but now comes the dangerous part....

How do you talk to each other without risking your safety?

Here's what I came up with. Equipment wise, it relies on having rechargeable batteries, a solar charger (for said batteries), a remote control truck (ideally a few, all taking the same batteries).

have you looked into using rotary phones?

make a field phone..
if you can find 2 rotary phones, all you need to do is run 1 wire in parallel with a battery (or remote battery) 12v will work perhaps 6v - ground the phone to earth, run another wire to flash a light (low voltage LED) 'pick up phone' since the ringer requires more then 12v, I have played around with this similar setup as a kid

Wireless communications seems to be a security breach when negotiating terms for trade/help eluding that you have supplies?
 
Never knew you could do so with them, but yeah, I'm game. The existing ones seem pricey because they are antiques...but if you can make one easily enough...yeah, I'm up for that. Will have to look into it. Thanks.
 
might look into the hotel rotary phones.they don't have the rotary dial for dialing the number n all simply because their for getting in touch with the front desk only.and they dial the number for you. .but yet might be doable..and if i remember right.some will have the lil light at one of the lower corners..
 
and hotels might sell you phones they don't need any more, what about local junkyards??
 
junk dealers that has a structure built at a specific location..who knows what they have inside.
 
Never knew you could do so with them, but yeah, I'm game. The existing ones seem pricey because they are antiques...but if you can make one easily enough...yeah, I'm up for that. Will have to look into it. Thanks.

img_2562.jpg
connect the green from one phone to the red of the other, the resister will be on the bat+ to the green side of the phone as shown in the illustration, this would require two wires running to the field phone, this would be a better option for greater distance between the phones
 
Last edited:
something could work,if set up right.and (IF) there's still electric or or some other source of power.hook a battery charger to it,and plug it in to keep battery charged up
 
looks like I'm going to my local recycling center this weekend,only wish I was as handy with electric gizmos as my father was
 
forgot to add this under the picture

connect the green from one phone to the red of the other, the resister will be on the bat+ to the green side of the phone as shown in the illustration, this would require two wires running to the field phone, this would be a better option for greater distance between the phones
 
Pretty neat. Love this idea. I tend to remember the WW2 ones working with some kind of crank, but not sure if they needed a battery.
 
I would advocate placing a cheap ham radio (around $15 each for the Baofeng BF-888) at a choke point in the approach well before anyone comes within view of your operation. A barricade on the road for instance. Actually a pair of them. One concealed and connected to a motion detector unless you have a 24X7 observation post well beyond your perimeter. Every week or so a patrol can swap batteries on both radios.

the radio not concealed would be in an easily identifiable container, with clear instructions on what the traveler should do and expect.

This allows communications with travelers who happen to be spotted either by your observation posts or electronic security systems. You can set the VOX level low enough to hear their conversations when they aren't pushing the talk button.

They have no way of knowing if you are watching them from the edge of the clearing or sitting at your control and communications center a mile away. The advantage in being able to speak to these strangers should be obvious. You can ask them for any news of what they have seen in the direction they are traveling from. You might find that one or more of their group has skills your MAG could use. All of which is done without risking anything more than the strangers knowing that someone is probably within a mile or two of them. If they are just passing through, you can direct them to a map that will take them around you without interference (then dispatch a patrol to shadow them).

For instance, your patrols have hopefully been watching this group from a distance and should know something about the composition of the group. If it is an adult couple with small children, I might feel compelled as a Christian to offer some assistance to them. It might be a good idea to have a few jars of peanut butter and some bottles of water buried in various places within a short distance of the point where these strangers are standing while they talk with you. These mini-caches should be well concealed, but with some distinctive mark that you can direct them to depending upon the size of their group. This works better for me than sending stuff out in an RC truck.


If they seem to be potential community members, direct them to a nearby vacant home outside but close to your perimeter. There they can find shelter and communications can be established more calmly for everyone involved. That house, by the way, has a lot more room to conceal automotive batteries to keep the listening devices running for a long time.

There is always going to be danger when making contact with strangers, but when speaking with you via an FM radio, they will have the feeling that you might be fifty feet away. They will have no idea whether they are being watched or not. Probably from the forward observation post.
 
Agree with both of the above, some good ideas there.

The problem with a hard-wired radio, is that they could eventually trace the wire, of course.

I don't think there's any way to eliminate the risk of first contact with other survivors, but we certainly should be thinking about ways to minimize the risk in any way we can.

Unfortunately, I'm usually a pretty good judge of people (and my dog definitely is), and this ability really won't work over a radio.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top