Setting up the Ideal homestead or retreat small community for even tougher times

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any group of more than 1 is going to be a headache. I hope the inplace semi co operative system around here works if needed, it seems to be fairly functional now , but someone is usually irritated at someone else often enough. and then there are the non player around too. so who knows
As I have said before the physical challenges of food water shelter and defense pale beside the human interaction problems... And our current social structure with anonymous internet chatter and stupidity will not transfer to face to face hard times.
 
long term survival = piped spring water...no pump,no fuss and no carrying buckets full...only fail point is pipe system itself....put in best you can afford..do it right...also if it is aging as you age its best to redo it going into old age so its one less headache going forward.

carrying water is time consuming and can break down the body...especially once you get older...bottom line you cant do what you did younger..even when 80yrs old compared to 70 yrs old.

i dont want to carry water......i want to spend my time doing other chores.

some of this type thing is based on permaculture where you have most visited and daily chores as close as possible while yearly chores are farther away...i.e. daily water close by...orchard farther away since it needs pruning once year and harvest only seasonally.
 
More and more I appreciate where I live....comments like this from UserNameTaken...

"I have tried every which way, but the fact is, without power and flowing water from the faucet the Colorado River valley is untenable. There is 80,000 people living in a 30 mile long valley that 200 years ago supported 400 indians, and they were smart enough to head to the high country for the summer. And there's plans for 15,000 more homes."

I live close enough to the missouri river, 70 or so miles from where three amazing mountain trout streams join to form it and the population stretched along the next 500 or so miles includes one city of 50,000 or so...

We live in the splatter zone of missel fields but we have no nuke plants that could melt down with a major grid down situation that endures too long... The Mississippi corridor has what? 50 or so nuke plants with their holding ponds cooling the hot "depleted" fuel.
Cold? you betcha but I could take my wheel barrow and a bow saw and cut enough wood in a hour to heat for a day.

A wide mix of people from the dopers to right wing strict bible believers to the liberal any thing goes as long as it is my beliefs types.....The thing is there is enough unoccupied space people don't get to jammed together right now so if you meet someone of similar interest a conversation can spring up and i value that.

Just some musings on a windy 40 degree afternoon.
 
I invite any member of this forum who has never read the survival books published after August 29, 1949.

Peak quality survival (thinking) books were published 1959 and up to 1979 to immerse in the "foundation" theories of quasi-modern prepping.

Building a solid prepping plan starts with a "SOLID" foundation.
 
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I invite any member of this forum who has never read the survival books published after August 29, 1949 and up to 1979 to bath is the "foundation" theories of quasi-modern prepping.

Building a solid prepping plan starts with a "SOLID" foundation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_atomic_bomb_project
regional survival encyclopedia set

1742090417964.jpeg
 
One thing that I never hear mentioned on here about homesteading is the cost. I think that's an important subject to discuss here, especially for new people who would like to start a homestead. One of the things that I've learned is; whatever you think building construction will cost, double or triple it. With the price of land now days, how are people able to afford to buy enough land to make a homestead. Just yesterday I was looking at a 400 acre parcel for summer grazing. They wanted $500,000 for it. A more fertile property suitable for homesteading would be much higher, and for less land.
I know how much I have invested in our homestead to get to where we are today, which is about 90% where I think we should be.
 
One thing that I never hear mentioned on here about homesteading is the cost. I think that's an important subject to discuss here, especially for new people who would like to start a homestead. One of the things that I've learned is; whatever you think building construction will cost, double or triple it. With the price of land now days, how are people able to afford to buy enough land to make a homestead. Just yesterday I was looking at a 400 acre parcel for summer grazing. They wanted $500,000 for it. A more fertile property suitable for homesteading would be much higher, and for less land.
I know how much I have invested in our homestead to get to where we are today, which is about 90% where I think we should be.
$500k for 400 acres is a pipe dream around here. The bank would finance 100% of that no matter how fertile or not it may be. 400 acres would be 3.5-4 million dollars here and you'd have to be perfectly fine with pump jacks, tank batteries, access roads, pipeline easements and be happy with the 2/3s that doesn't have all that to be bottom land. A fellow can count on one hand how many times 100+ acres comes up for sale in the same decade.
Most of it is old family land they got 125 years ago when their great granddaddy's wagon wheel broke and that's where they stayed. Then they found oil on it in the 70's and then gas in the 2000's
 
$500k for 400 acres is a pipe dream around here. The bank would finance 100% of that no matter how fertile or not it may be. 400 acres would be 3.5-4 million dollars here and you'd have to be perfectly fine with pump jacks, tank batteries, access roads, pipeline easements and be happy with the 2/3s that doesn't have all that to be bottom land. A fellow can count on one hand how many times 100+ acres comes up for sale in the same decade.
Most of it is old family land they got 125 years ago when their great granddaddy's wagon wheel broke and that's where they stayed. Then they found oil on it in the 70's and then gas in the 2000's
The 400 acres in my example is only good for summer grazing. I don't know if there's any water on the property. Electric is 6 miles away, which is fine by me. It might not even be fenced either. The owner is asking for 10% down, 10% interest for 18 years. Of course it's all negotiable. I've never went through a bank when buying bare land, always owner carry. I've also sold land where I carried the contract.
 
One thing that I never hear mentioned on here about homesteading is the cost. I think that's an important subject to discuss here, especially for new people who would like to start a homestead.
Having built (4) FOUR homesteads; I have always started with a quality wall tent. Then build an 8' X 10' or 10' X 16' (potential) storage building. When the wall tent is completely dry of the slightest moisture, I take it down roll it up; then me and the dry wall tent move into the future storage building. Then get the foundation in for a larger building. Generally, at that point it is very early winter; while living in the small building I make improvements.
 
One thing that I never hear mentioned on here about homesteading is the cost. I think that's an important subject to discuss here, especially for new people who would like to start a homestead. One of the things that I've learned is; whatever you think building construction will cost, double or triple it. With the price of land now days, how are people able to afford to buy enough land to make a homestead. Just yesterday I was looking at a 400 acre parcel for summer grazing. They wanted $500,000 for it. A more fertile property suitable for homesteading would be much higher, and for less land.
I know how much I have invested in our homestead to get to where we are today, which is about 90% where I think we should be.
The fact is all the fertile deep soil, gentle climate land is and has been occupied for generations...
A few years ago we were looking for any little patch of land of a couple of acres or more and we figured we could spend $100K....Nothing available, or if it was it was not accessible in winter and or had recently been burned over by a forest fire..

Recently a three acre parcel came on the market in a area void of trees and needing a deep well for a mere $134,000.

So for what I see as the majority of people who want to (or should want to) getaway from the coming dangerous times in the highly populated areas and you don't have a paid for house to sell you need to find someplace that allows you to continue working and yet be close enough to safer country that you can develop contacts and arrangements with people who already have a safe place..
Rent a cheap place place in the smaller town that has jobs to fit your skills and save your money for assets and learning skills. Find a side job helping with bringing in hay or helping out at a truck farm or work with a landowner getting brush and dead trees cleaned from the fence lines.
Here in montana every spring we have gophers (not really gophers but that is the vernacular) that burrow and make holes that can break a cow or horses leg...Get to know someone that has land and wants to get rid of the pests. Great fun with 22's.
The more people you know and that they know you the better... Then if something like a spare cabin or a place to park a mobile or camper comes up you might be able to swing it...
We want to plant more garden but are old and need to sleep and we have side hustles going so we have some young energetic people that want experience and good food...If they do a bad job nothing lost but if several of them actually persevere then we know who they are and they can be useful if things go wrong with the world.

Thru some fortuitus happenings or blessings and hard work we have basically our own garden supply store for a couple of years and more seeds then we can plant.
We also have enough stored to feed some good workers for quite a while. Running freeze driers can store up a nice variety of food..


I was talking to a neighbor who has all the accoutrements (RV's, harlys, landscaped property) pus they grow a nifty garden.,,, I mentioned the young family renting from us and how they work three jobs and her response was to come to the food bank where the neighbor works and donates her vegies ... if they needed any food.....I just smiled and nodded......

In todays world where I am a million dollars would get you a set up for the moderately long haul but it wouldn't be too much land it it would maybe get you by. Real basic housing and vehicles. This is the reason i try to get people who don't have big bucks but see things going bad shortly to get to a safer area and find someone who has resources but needs trustworthy honest people to make things work..
 
Having built (4) FOUR homesteads; I have always started with a quality wall tent. Then build an 8' X 10' or 10' X 16' (potential) storage building. When the wall tent is completely dry of the slightest moisture, I take it down roll it up; then me and the dry wall tent move into the future storage building. Then get the foundation in for a larger building. Generally, at that point it is very early winter; while living in the small building I make improvements.
Sounds like a great system that you made work, During most of these times you must of been able to make a good amount of money quickly (I read your previous posts) so you could devote time and energy to the homesteads... Things like wife and kids does tend to make things more challenging.
 
the cost of doing things has skyrocketed, mostly because people could just finance everything at low interest, and instead of buying what they could afford the bought what they could make payments on.
things are way over priced and that is/was on purpose so that the people with the most fake dollars could buy up most of the land.
 
Sounds like a great system that you made work, During most of these times you must of been able to make a good amount of money quickly (I read your previous posts) so you could devote time and energy to the homesteads... Things like wife and kids does tend to make things more challenging.
yes I agree with that, sure you can make lots of money on remote jobs, but that doesn't mix well with a growing family. if you are not there for your kids, things go sideways.
 
Having built (4) FOUR homesteads; I have always started with a quality wall tent. Then build an 8' X 10' or 10' X 16' (potential) storage building. When the wall tent is completely dry of the slightest moisture, I take it down roll it up; then me and the dry wall tent move into the future storage building. Then get the foundation in for a larger building. Generally, at that point it is very early winter; while living in the small building I make improvements.
your examples are great for how we should have done it, and could still do it if you find a spot that is reasonable to buy. And finding someone (as in a spouse) who might want to do that is really hard. lots say they want to, but a month or 2 in a wall tent changes the outlook.
 
I notice the thread has drifted from "Get'R" done, make it happen.

To the other side of that. All the reasons why it is hard, inconvenient, wife, children, etc. etc. etc.

Just remember who the "WOLVES" will pull-down.......when the SHTF.

Everyone wants to be comfortable, enjoy the easy life, live where the climate is (just-right) perfect.

When the Wolves come after the SHTF, remember who exactly put you & our dearly loved ones at risk.
 
I notice the thread has drifted from "Get'R" done, make it happen.

To the other side of that. All the reasons why it is hard, inconvenient, wife, children, etc. etc. etc.

Just remember who the "WOLVES" will pull-down.......when the SHTF.

Everyone wants to be comfortable, enjoy the easy life, live where the climate is (just-right) perfect.

When the Wolves come after the SHTF, remember who exactly put you & our dearly loved ones at risk.
it has nothing to do with the not get er done part, if you only show the "easy" parts and don't consider the hick ups, frustration follows quickly. I pretty much already live the life, so I know what can come up, and there is no need to suffer and cause your self injuries, that haunt you in later life,
 
Homesteading closed in Alaska roughly mid-1970. Many were still proving up on their land into the mid-80's.

Homesteading land owned by the State of Alaska (through the state government) continued till mid-1990's.

Many of these properties are available "cheap" now. But we all know the super best excuse.......

"But it is in Alaska, I want perfect "cheap" land where the climate is perfect"
 
it has nothing to do with the not get er done part, if you only show the "easy" parts and don't consider the hick ups, frustration follows quickly.
Well..........hundreds, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe millions will die.

I look at it as they have chosen to do what is necessary to ensure the wolves eat well.
 
Homesteading closed in Alaska roughly mid-1970. Many were still proving up on their land into the mid-80's.

Homesteading land owned by the State of Alaska (through the state government) continued till mid-1990's.

Many of these properties are available "cheap" now. But we all know the super best excuse.......

"But it is in Alaska, I want perfect "cheap" land where the climate is perfect"
most people just decide they don't like the climate, and forget that a lot of populated alaska is south of the 60th parrelel I would rather go to alaska than the hot humid southern parts. but I would really rather stay pretty much where I am now.
 
Well..........hundreds, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe millions will die.

I look at it as they have chosen to do what is necessary to ensure the wolves eat well.
I indeed agree with that, the NWO wants millions to die. that is why the worlds economies have been rigged like they have.
Most people think that growing/ gathering your own food is just plain insane, A lot of people can't even feed them selves out of a grocery store. the just buy it people will suffer greatly.
 
This is for any folks who may have never heard of the American Redoubt movement, founded in 2005 by James Wesley Rawles, author and retired U.S. Army Intelligence officer and now homesteader, blogger and preparedness / survivalist consultant. American Redoubt is located in rural high country regions of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, eastern Washington and Oregon.

The 13 year old article from the Los Angeles Times explains about James Rawles and about what and how American Redoubt started out as. The information in it is still relevant to today, although the American Redoubt movement has grown and expanded greatly since the article was published in 2012:

https://www.latimes.com/world/la-xpm-2012-feb-08-la-na-american-redoubt-20120209-story.html

The following link is to Rawles' blog and survivalist consultancy services. The blog is full of vital information about setting up a redoubt, advice, resources, contacts and ways to network with like minded people. There is information about what to look for in resources and people, and what to watch out for and be on guard against.

It's called SurvivalBlog.Com and is definitely worth looking at for ideas and ways to create redoubts.

https://survivalblog.com/about/

I think @elkhound, @Sourdough, @Swing and @Cabin Fever may remember back in 2005 when Rawles' endeavours in starting the American Redoubt movement was a hot topic of interest amongst us and several other people on another preparedness forum we were members of.

.
 
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Just want to shake people,
while screaming, "FOR GODS SAKE DO SOMETHING".
If you expect people to do anything sensible, think again, so few people can read a map, not just young people either. I have been expecting things to come irreparably off the rails for decades, somehow the run away mine cart stays on...
 
This is for any folks who may have never heard of the American Redoubt movement, founded in 2005 by James Wesley Rawles, author and retired U.S. Army Intelligence officer and now homesteader, blogger and preparedness / survivalist consultant. American Redoubt is located in rural high country regions of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, eastern Washington and Oregon.

The 13 year old article from the Los Angeles Times explains about James Rawles and about what and how American Redoubt started out as. The information in it is still relevant to today, although the American Redoubt movement has grown and expanded greatly since the article was published in 2012:

https://www.latimes.com/world/la-xpm-2012-feb-08-la-na-american-redoubt-20120209-story.html

The following link is to Rawles' blog and survivalist consultancy services. The blog is full of vital information about setting up a redoubt, advice, resources, contacts and ways to network with like minded people. There is information about what to look for in resources and people, and what to watch out for and be on guard against.

It's called SurvivalBlog.Com and is definitely worth looking at for ideas and ways to create redoubts.

https://survivalblog.com/about/

I think @elkhound, @Sourdough, @Swing and @Cabin Fever may remember back in 2005 when Rawles' endeavours in starting the American Redoubt movement was a hot topic of interest amongst us and several other people on another preparedness forum we were members of.

.

While Rawles rightfully gets the credit for dubbing and promoting the American Redoubt movement, he was a student of Mel Tappin, who promoted the idea of intentional survivalist/prepper communities in deep rural America. I don’t know if Tappen was first with this concept, but he generally gets the credit. Rawles took that thought and pinpointed the ideal location in the lower 48 states, calling it the American Redoubt. Brilliant concept and location.

While I think Alaska is ideal for me, it doesn’t work for most (which is a net positive). The American Redoubt is an area that could be ideal for most particularly for folks with families. There are ample opportunities to work, raise families and live in areas that is better than most for survival.

I have several close friends who are of the prepper mindset who located to the American Redoubt intentionally when they got out of the military about 2 decades ago about the same time I retired. They are telling me it’s becoming much more crowded with the newer arrivals being of the liberal sort. This is raising property prices and shifting politics leftward. We have the same issue in Alaska. Bottom line, there is no perfect solution, but some are arguably better than most.
 
I grew up in eastern washington state and traveled thru the wash, idaho, oregon, and western montana. Great country all but I like the less populated area of montana where I am now..

I have to ask myself why do I want to survive what is coming? Just surviving as i grow older and more decrepit has little attraction..
Seeing good honest young people survive and hearing the laugh of a 2 year old is why I prep and am ready to do what is necessary to make that happen.

The thing is right here right now many people are not able to head out to the outback of AK or the Redoubt and even build a cabin....It takes cash money and if they don't have the skills to make a bunch of money quickly they aren't going to suddenly learn skills, save money and build that cabin in the next four months. So I keep pointing out ideas to make things happen right now on very little money and still have a life including a family....
Here is a good book to have handy...and the printed matter is the long form of the info that comes with a JASE antibiotic kit.
 

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yes I agree with that, sure you can make lots of money on remote jobs, but that doesn't mix well with a growing family. if you are not there for your kids, things go sideways.
Do the math, on a rotational job you actually get to spend a lot more time with your family. Six months vacation a year. I had employees that lived in Thailand, Philippines, Florida, California etc. These jobs allowed people the income to live anywhere they wanted to. And have whatever lifestyle they chose.
 

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