Survivalist Prepping vs Supply Prepping

[alabaster]

I wanted to start this thread to cover a common discussion among preppers and to help guide those who are unsure about exactly HOW to "Prep". Forgive me if this has been covered, but I'd like to see this become a sticky so that people can discern whats the best route for them and to see the merits about both styles of prepping. It's even asked in your profile whether or not you plan to "Bug out".... Personally I think it's best to be able to do BOTH, but finances, time, and other things come into play that may keep some folks from doing one or the other... I am by no means an expert on either, but would like to open this discussion to help ALL preppers, whether you be a beginner, intermediate, or advanced in your skills & supplies.

First I want to address what I see as weaknesses in the methods. There are definitely pluses to them, but there are also minuses to them, which is what I believe leads us to practice one or the other.

"Supply Prepping" is often what comes to mind in modern prepper circles. It definitely seems to me that in our modern society of consumption, that we tend to lean towards "Ready made" everything. Food, clothes, housing, tents, tools, and even ready made survival kits and first aid kits... People like to run down and hit the local store so they can buy what they need and store it in case they ever need it. The problems with this are many, in my opinion. First, what if you can't "Bug in"? Are you able to haul all of your food, water, and other supplies to wherever it is that you need to go? Many people would prefer to NOT have to go to the woods and hunt, build a shelter, and carry on that way. That is what I think makes people want to "Stock up".

"Survivalist Prepping" is what people often think of as "Old school" survivalist skill. Living off of the land and all the gifts that Mother Nature has provided us. There is without question enough bounty in nature to live a rather nice life, but we have gotten used to technology and modern conveniences. While even the most skilled survivalist will often say they would prefer a lighter or matches, it is good to know how to do this with nothing but nature and skill. Same goes for food and water. Would it be "Better" to have bottled water and pre-packaged food? Maybe so. Will you be able to heat it? Can you carry it if you need to evacuate your home? Some people don't think they'll necessarily be able to "Bug in", so they prepare to head out to the woods to make the best of it there.

Now personally, I think that having and knowing BOTH is clearly the best idea, but that's not always a possibility. Some folks don't have the money to store tons of food and thousands of gallons of water. Some folks don't have the time, or have health issues that would keep them from getting out to the woods and learning such skills.

I have come to believe that it is probably best to be able to hit the bricks and live in the wilderness if you have to pick one and both are truly viable options. Clearly I'm not an expert as I'm still working on honing skills for everything from primitive shelters and fire to trapping and foraging. I'm learning quickly that I'm better at that than I am at shopping at big stores for supplies though!

What's your thoughts on it? What do you think about both schools of thought, and do you prefer one over the other? Can you see certain pitfalls with one because of personal circumstances or due to the area you live in?

I'm really looking forward to reading your responses.

-Alabaster

 

[jimLE]

i see haveing skills and items in both areas very important if not extremly important..be it buging in and/or buging out.if a person can take every thing they'll need,or at least close to it..then start collecting whats needed once they get to thier bug out location..then they'll at least have a head start on being set up like (they) need to be.but now if a person is going to bug out.then it's a all around good idea to be set up and ready much as possible within reason for when it becomes time to bug out..to me that means haveing the needed transportaion and trailer for every thing that will be taken along..

 

[tntboy13]

I plan to work on my ability for both. Ideally, I'd want to be able to bug in long enough to survive the initial panic, but being able to survive off the land is an invaluable skill. It's a final safeguard for when all your supplies have run out. Plus, a lot of strictly supply preppers have little knowledge of how to survive without their preps, and old school person could have barely anything and survive. I think a major difference is the survive vs thrive idea. Supply preppers wont be quite so worried about the neccessities, so they can focus on improving the situation. The survival preppers will be focused on mere survival than having some comfortable living gadgets. Havin the best of both I believe is the key to any Long term survival situation. I lean survivalist personally because I'm a boyscout and a teen, so I have knowledge of survival and cash can be tight for preps. Knowledge is free and weighs nothing!

 

[psalm 7]

Both as supply prepping is where you live and survivlist prepping is how you make a living in a TIOTWAWKI situation .

 

[alabaster]

I agree that both are important skills. I'm starting to think too that it depends on where you live and what the emergency is.... As I'm thinking about all prepping actually. Some areas are going to be plague with bandits and villains, and won't lend themselves well to bugging in. Supplies or not, holding off the gangs of raiders(That we know are coming because even members of this forum have said they'll do it) is not an indefinite proposition. You wuold not only need unreal amounts of ammo and firearms, but you would need HUGE numbers to be able to use them and to take shifts for security. Fortification of the home will be a definite concern, too.

On the other hand, survivalist preppers can head out to the sticks in almost any situation. Unless it's a natural disaster that would put them at greater risk, or natural water supplies are contaminated, you can find food and survive... And even take it to the next level of being comfortable and thriving. I think that this style of prepping too would be a better situation with more people... Some to hold down base camp and some to hunt, gather, etc....

I guess the one thing I'm realizing is that either situation will be improved greatly by having a network of like-minded, skilled, and dedicated people. Maybe networking is more important than the type of prepping one does...

 

[psalm 7]

like minded , skilled and dedicated . Your right Networking is important . That has become our comm's

 

[rudyc]

oh i misread the question, i chose the middle answer, i thought it was asking, on how we were prepping currently. both ways are best. since supplies will only last a limited amount of time. the whole saying on "give a man a fish, and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish, and feed him for life". I would like to bug in and outlast the initial panic, but go out and extend my supplies by learning how to live without them, or at least to not just rely on my preps only.

 

[Gazrok]

I definitely follow the idea of using both methods.

For supply prepping, this is mostly for things that will be hard to obtain after the SHTF like manufactured goods, modern medicine, etc.

For survival prepping, our efforts are in gardening and animals, as well as replenishable water sources.

For me, prepping isn't about survival. I really have no worries I'll SURVIVE. My bigger worry is maintaining a certain quality of life for my family. I don't want to just survive a SHTF scenario, I want to thrive in it and still enjoy life.

 

[Krime]

AHHH! one of my favorite subjects on this forum! ya Al, me and Colt had some back n forth on this one actually, but its always nice to refresh!
I know, from past threads, that I may catch some hell for this, but I hope people understand that these are my opinions and worries. I liked the banter back n forth, however, between me n Colt in other threads, not because I like to argue, but so people could see both sides of the coin, so to speak. Soooo, here I go:
I believe, in most cases, bugging in is useless. (boom, I can hear it now lol)
imho, there are only 2 ways bugging in are good:
1 you have a bomb shelter, or something damn close to it.
2 you live in a very remote, out of the way location where you could see in any direction at least a mile (at least)
now heres why I believe so:
if you live anywhere in or around a town or city, someones gonna come along to rob you. its not if, its when. yes, of course you have all the security one could manage, an arsenal, fortification, the works. THEY WILL GET IN! look, 1 person (without mechanical help) can at most shoot 2 guns. not great against a gang. snipers across the street, or even like that movie the Purge, where they just ripped the dang security down. not to mention explosives etc. if all else fails, I cant get in, that pisses me off n I just set your house on fire, then what? where do you go? how do you escape? you're stuck, your family's stuck. you either give up and the enemy gets everything you have (and you arm the enemy), or you die and the enemy gets whatever scraps they could find. tbh, either way you're dead more than likely. if a swat team can do it, so can someone else. youll be surprised how heavily armed even gangs are. machine guns, bp vests etc. its gonna get crazy. within the first week that's gonna happen, then many times after that, probably dropping down after a while.....unless people know you're there, in which case if you lasted even 1 round, I could almost guarantee someones gotta clue you're there, and that you have stuff, GOOD stuff, expensive stuff.
see I believe bugging out, although dangerous in its own right, is best is because I have options. I can run in just about any direction. people are more likely to help me because I don't have much (though I wont count on that lol....at all), if I do it right ill never run out of supplies, because I can hunt/plant crop/barder, if I get robbed, not that its 100%, but I have a better chance of surviving by merely giving up my supplies. and if my stuff gets stolen, I know how to survive with nothing to start. my supplies are mainly to make it easier....and well....I have a family.and not last, and not least, I can run in any direction if threatened. id probably have more, but atm its 2am lol so ill leave it at that for now.
though I will say, as previously stated I believe, that it would depend on the disaster/situation. im not gonna head out cuz 1 dude in my town gets the h1n1 virus lol

 

[Colt 1911]

Great topic,,,, Short and sweet, prep for both. Bug in as long as you feel safe and hit the bricks when it is time to go.
When and if people have to bug out REST ASSURED this will be no picnic, " will be with some exceptions " .

 

[Gazrok]

I believe, in most cases, bugging in is useless.

You didn't factor having a GROUP to defend the bug-in location, into your argument above.

I cant get in, that pisses me off n I just set your house on fire, then what? where do you go? how do you escape?

Our fences are farther out from the house than any incendiary you could throw. (and we have enough folks to patrol and guard the perimeter 24/7, in a SHTF scenario) (and we'd recruit more). Nothing is full-proof, of course, but anybody trying to get in isn't going to get frustrated, they are going to get shot and made into cat and dog food.

youll be surprised how heavily armed even gangs are. machine guns, bp vests etc. its gonna get crazy. within the first week that's gonna happen

Within the first week? Hardly. Within 2 months? Most likely. Of course, they will first focus on immediate opportunities before going outside of cities. Even then, they will look more for businesses vs. private homes spaced far apart in the country. Also, if encountering stiff resistance, a smart gang leader will look for an easier target (as criminals do).

if I do it right ill never run out of supplies, because I can hunt/plant crop/barder

If you plant something, you're bugged in to that location.

I believe bugging out, although dangerous in its own right, is best is because I have options.

Even bugged in, there are options. We can always leave, for example. Pretty tricky to completely surround 5 and a half acres, without leaving a weak opening in the line. We'll be able to get out. (and we'll poison random things on the way out, to ensure that once the victors enjoy their spoils, we can come back, clean up the bodies, and continue on like before, making repairs, etc.

 

[Krime]

Gazrock, first I must say, nice set up!
second though, I did state an out of the way area was one of my exceptions.
for you, ya it could possibly take many weeks before some people come "knocking on your door".
my concerns are for the people deciding to bug in in populated areas, even heavy populated areas, in city.
so let me respond directly to your comments:
GROUPS: for you, this might work as you are in a rural area, easier to secure. in town, I just see more death. today, a lot of gang members are military trained unfortunately. they are trained to get in, among various other things. for your bug in spot id heavily fortify a van or bus and ram it through your gates. shoot it all you want. explosions may take this thought down, but still its my options. im on the outside with plenty of resources, you're on the inside with only what you've stocked.
if I plant something, that doesn't mean I have to stay there, I can make plenty of traps to guard my crop, and, me, im not gonna make huge crops, not like a plantation. I might drop a few seeds here n there in prime locations, that way if one is compromised, I still have others going.
so, you think you can just leave? as if I wouldn't surround you? not all these gangs are stupid. not all are little hoodlems of todays world. you don't think they'll know that you have people? have security? have guns etc? their not just gonna come atta frontal attack, you will be surrounded. being as you are a big settlement, you're a great target if they can do it. id sit on your place for weeks until your ammo diminishes, and believe me id send stuff to diminish it. you wouldn't be able to step foot outside without sniper shots coming at you, so any crops you have will be useless to you. you better have a renewable water source inside your living quarters too. the only escape I see for you at the last resort point is a tunnel that no one knows about. me as your enemy? id already have scouts out n about looking for it. and all this time, I could send people to renew my resources, you, you're stuck only with what you have.
I consider myself a smart guy, but there will be way smarter, way more skilled, way better trained groups out there pulling this stuff. if I could think of just this, believe me, they will think of more, and better ways to get in.

 

[tim.bruneau.]

Check out life force technology. What happens when medicine and doctors are no longer available? Living off the land and supplies is one thing but what about when someone becomes ill?

 

[Trapper]

I plan to work on my ability for both. Ideally, I'd want to be able to bug in long enough to survive the initial panic, but being able to survive off the land is an invaluable skill. It's a final safeguard for when all your supplies have run out. Plus, a lot of strictly supply preppers have little knowledge of how to survive without their preps, and old school person could have barely anything and survive. I think a major difference is the survive vs thrive idea. Supply preppers wont be quite so worried about the neccessities, so they can focus on improving the situation. The survival preppers will be focused on mere survival than having some comfortable living gadgets. Havin the best of both I believe is the key to any Long term survival situation. I lean survivalist personally because I'm a boyscout and a teen, so I have knowledge of survival and cash can be tight for preps. Knowledge is free and weighs nothing!

Well put.....

 

[tim.bruneau.]

I agree knowledge is everything. The more you educate yourself the better off you'll b when you don't have all of the normal privileges

 

[Krime]

Check out life force technology. What happens when medicine and doctors are no longer available? Living off the land and supplies is one thing but what about when someone becomes ill?

ahhh see that's when knowledge comes into play. there are a huge amount of natural resources that can be used in medicines.

 

[Gazrok]

Before I begin, I want to preface that I actually enjoy this kind of discussion, because it forces one to evaluate their defenses, tactics, etc. So please know going in that I am not trying to be argumentative, I actually LIKE the discussion!

In mentioning the things below, I invite any to poke holes in it, because that is the best way to see the weaknesses. (and of course, there are some).

for your bug in spot id heavily fortify a van or bus and ram it through your gates. shoot it all you want. explosions may take this thought down, but still its my options. im on the outside with plenty of resources, you're on the inside with only what you've stocked.

I've stated it on other threads, but don't expect all to have seen it, but basically, if the SHTF, part of the immediate planned defense is to take a stockpile of fence posts and put them every 3 feet around the perimeter fencing. I'm a bit confused on the idea of having "plenty of resources" if a roving band. Not a whole lot of loot locations around me, so I'd think any siege of my area would be logistical misuse of resources, unless they were desperately out of supplies and willing to try anything. A band would have to carry their supplies (most of all water would be the challenge). Nothing is perfect, of course, and you could spend time trying to pull up the posts, but in doing so, you're in sniper range too (and from concrete placements), so likely not a good move.

so, you think you can just leave? as if I wouldn't surround you? not all these gangs are stupid. not all are little hoodlems of todays world. you don't think they'll know that you have people? have security? have guns etc? their not just gonna come atta frontal attack, you will be surrounded.

Takes a LOT of men to effectively surround and keep penned in, way more than it does to defend. (it's why a siege force needed at least 10 times as many folks as the defenders). Also, I think most folks forget how pitch black the night is without light. We're just not used to it. But those of us who have moved in it, done tactics in it, etc. know how easy it is to get around unnoticed (even if the enemy has nightvision, though this does complicate it). Of course, this presents the same challenge to the defenders (but counters such as battery powered motion lights help, as do traps).

if they can do it. id sit on your place for weeks until your ammo diminishes, and believe me id send stuff to diminish it. you wouldn't be able to step foot outside without sniper shots coming at you, so any crops you have will be useless to you. you better have a renewable water source inside your living quarters too.

That's just it. It's my belief they'd have more limited supplies. We do have a renewable water source (well), that come SHTF would not only be protected, but hidden, within a matter of 2 days after the event. I have thought about the crop thing. In a real SHTF crisis, I wouldn't want my people outside without the bare minimum of a vest and helmet. They aren't near as pricey as you think they are. Of course, not full-proof, but a start.

I could send people to renew my resources, you, you're stuck only with what you have.

Not so sure where they'd go, and in doing so, they are expending resources themselves. Especially FUEL! Not like they can just gas up at a station. I'd love to see a gang-banger try and put the unmixed fuel he siphoned up from a station's tanks into his car....won't last long. I think you're overestimating just how mobile such a gang would be, especially weeks after the trucks stop rolling with supplies. This is why I think most would never make it out of the cities...they simply wouldn't have the gas and mobility to do so.

If I were a smart gang leader, I'd concentrate on hitting easy targets.

There's also another tactic besides fight or flight. Cooperation. The gang can't exactly stick around and raise crops....but maybe they'd be willing to trade vs. fight, even if a large gang we can't fight, and be extortion. In exchange for leaving us alone, we give them some surplus food, etc. Maybe even some other trading (like for things they get on raids that they don't need, but we could use, etc.). When facing a large, organized gang, this would be my first approach.

 

[Krime]

Before I begin, I want to preface that I actually enjoy this kind of discussion, because it forces one to evaluate their defenses, tactics, etc. So please know going in that I am not trying to be argumentative, I actually LIKE the discussion!

In mentioning the things below, I invite any to poke holes in it, because that is the best way to see the weaknesses. (and of course, there are some).



I've stated it on other threads, but don't expect all to have seen it, but basically, if the SHTF, part of the immediate planned defense is to take a stockpile of fence posts and put them every 3 feet around the perimeter fencing. I'm a bit confused on the idea of having "plenty of resources" if a roving band. Not a whole lot of loot locations around me, so I'd think any siege of my area would be logistical misuse of resources, unless they were desperately out of supplies and willing to try anything. A band would have to carry their supplies (most of all water would be the challenge). Nothing is perfect, of course, and you could spend time trying to pull up the posts, but in doing so, you're in sniper range too (and from concrete placements), so likely not a good move.



Takes a LOT of men to effectively surround and keep penned in, way more than it does to defend. (it's why a siege force needed at least 10 times as many folks as the defenders). Also, I think most folks forget how pitch black the night is without light. We're just not used to it. But those of us who have moved in it, done tactics in it, etc. know how easy it is to get around unnoticed (even if the enemy has nightvision, though this does complicate it). Of course, this presents the same challenge to the defenders (but counters such as battery powered motion lights help, as do traps).



That's just it. It's my belief they'd have more limited supplies. We do have a renewable water source (well), that come SHTF would not only be protected, but hidden, within a matter of 2 days after the event. I have thought about the crop thing. In a real SHTF crisis, I wouldn't want my people outside without the bare minimum of a vest and helmet. They aren't near as pricey as you think they are. Of course, not full-proof, but a start.



Not so sure where they'd go, and in doing so, they are expending resources themselves. Especially FUEL! Not like they can just gas up at a station. I'd love to see a gang-banger try and put the unmixed fuel he siphoned up from a station's tanks into his car....won't last long. I think you're overestimating just how mobile such a gang would be, especially weeks after the trucks stop rolling with supplies. This is why I think most would never make it out of the cities...they simply wouldn't have the gas and mobility to do so.

If I were a smart gang leader, I'd concentrate on hitting easy targets.

There's also another tactic besides fight or flight. Cooperation. The gang can't exactly stick around and raise crops....but maybe they'd be willing to trade vs. fight, even if a large gang we can't fight, and be extortion. In exchange for leaving us alone, we give them some surplus food, etc. Maybe even some other trading (like for things they get on raids that they don't need, but we could use, etc.). When facing a large, organized gang, this would be my first approach.

yes, I don't mean to be argumentative, really I don't. I just LIKE to find the kinks in the armor so to speak.

first is to what you said last: youd give them stuff in hopes that theyd leave you alone? if it is a small gang, that may work, but like feeding a wild bear, they are likely to come back knowing that youll just give them stuff.
second, im not talking about small gangs. if I were a small gang I wouldn't even mess with you. but you have to figure, that many months out, people have likely joined alliances, much like a video game. im talking like Mad Max type gangs, or Waterworld minus the water lol.
again with the fence, that you didn't address, I don't need to pull fence posts, ill use a bus to ram through it. if im a rather large gang, I likely have a little bit of gas to put in. youll have to imagine that the larger gangs are large because of fast thinking at the beginning of the SHTF situation. like what you got but evil lol. people are likely to join up with them because they have, not because they lack too much. and also realize by "gangs" im not just talken about gangbangers. there are likely full military type big gangs that could head through at any time. that's the whole thing about this, expect the unexpected.
with crops you could put them inna large green house that you cant really see from the outside, have an opening roof n such. that way you can close it up at night and still get it going in the day. have the on-off water source inna place where you don't have to venture far outside the door, or fix it to where you don't have to at all, or both. set traps around the perimeter, remote type traps that wont go off when friendlys come around, but could be set off when unfriendlys do. me, if I had the money, id put up guardrails all around, lets see a bus or a car get through that lol.

 

[Gazrok]

again with the fence, that you didn't address, I don't need to pull fence posts, ill use a bus to ram through it

Because the road is parallel to the fence, no room for a bus to ram head on, and hitting a couple of 6 inch diameter posts, that are 3' into the ground, is likely going to stop it (though may not prevent breaching the fence). Doubt the bus is moving from it though. (and still another layer of fencing to worry about).

Nice idea on the guardrail. Due to the road, this would be easy to justify. Will have to look into that.

The garden is not visible from the road or even until you get about halfway through the property.

As for gangs coming back when giving them things, yeah, the idea is to kind of make a deal for resupplying vs. just a one-time gain. If the gang is simply too large to confront of course. A wise gang leader will recognize that having a constant source of something is far better than a one-time hit with casualties, etc.

Remote traps and alerts already exist in some cases, but most are post SHTF only. My personal favorite is small trenches, with boards at the bottom holding a bunch of 10 penny nails sticking up, then covered to catch unwary feet. Most current alerts are battery or grid powered though, so some SHTF replacements are warranted. Example, the driveway alert simply lets us know we have company (usually for the shop), and several motion-detection lights are all over the property, both for intruders, and for simply seeing in the dark without having to flip a switch.

 

[Krime]

nice!

 

[psalm 7]

Buying them off with trade goods could be a good way to turn a potential threat into a reluctant alie as they would protect their sorce of trade from other gangs . If they would not go for a pay off then look at what works in a real worl situation like in the 80's Palistinian terroist would walk buy the U.S embassy and fire their little AK's at the building 2 Delta force snipers set up and when the tango's showed up to play the Delat troopers turned their heads into pink mist and the bad guys got the message .

 

[Krime]

nice!

Buying them off with trade goods could be a good way to turn a potential threat into a reluctant alie as they would protect their sorce of trade from other gangs . If they would not go for a pay off then look at what works in a real worl situation like in the 80's Palistinian terroist would walk buy the U.S embassy and fire their little AK's at the building 2 Delta force snipers set up and when the tango's showed up to play the Delat troopers turned their heads into pink mist and the bad guys got the message .

not quite what I was getting at. I was pretty much stating that if a small gang comes around that wants in, but instead you give them some supplys to make them go away, that didn't just turn them into good guys now. knowing that if they came and bugged you again, youd likely give them more supplys, do you think theyd just simply not come back? again, much as feeding a wild bear, you feed it n it comes back thinking youll feed it, but if you don't feed it, it still realizes you have food TO feed it. tbh, it might just be easier to take them out from the get go.

 

[Gazrok]

Or just poison the hell out of them the 3rd time, then shoot whoever is left....

 

[Krime]

Or just poison the hell out of them the 3rd time, then shoot whoever is left....

3RD time??? 3RD time? roflmmfao! idk bout 3rd time but thatd be a great idea really, just make sure the gang isn't big enough where only a few guys pass from it n the rest come back looken for you. the most optimal defense is not for someone to have an offence looking for you lol. ill have to remember that when im out re-supplying my food.....let people I don't care about eat it first haha

 

[Brent S]

Would giving supplies to a gang be much different than giving "taxes" to our govt.?

 

[Overlord]

The problem with giving to gangs is that they will not accept a small pack from you, they will want the whole lot so they don't have to come back to keep on collecting. It won't be worth the effort. They wouldn't care about you having some left. Unlike with the taxes with the government, you only give the gov't a portion of what you have.

 

[Potter County Man]

My opinion is very simple, if you go where most people are unwilling to go.
If you live where most people are unwilling to live, you will live.
If you do what you need to do to take care of yourself and you are mobile, able to move camp if need it be - you will live.
If you sit in your house with your rose colored glasses on and think that the people that works at the electric company, water company, gas company, sewage company - is still going to supply these resources if there is no money and or if another entity is invading your country, you are sadly mistaken.

When you have neighbors that has to go to town on a daily basis - else they don't eat, because they don't have any food stored in their house and they live hand to mouth, how do you think these people are going to live when there is no food in the grocery stores?

I live in a duplex and my best friend lives on the other side of the house.
He is a alcoholic and has begged money from all of his friends, which has alienated his friends from him - because he owes everyone money.
His children are more sophisticated, if they want something they just wait until you leave and they steal it. If you don't give it to them, they will come and damage your equipment - just to make you mad.
They have gone so far as to take their girlfriends door to door, make up some sob story about their hard times or how they need money for diapers or gasoline and then drive to town and buy dope with the money.

ARE THINGS GOING TO GET WORSE OR BETTER WHEN THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE FOR THESE PEOPLE TO COLLECT AND THE BEER DISTRIBUTOR RUNS OUT OF BOOZE?

You are going to have all kinds of weirdo's come out of the woodwork that is going to be banging on your door wanting to borrow something - because while you skimped and saved, they lived, drank, screwed and drugged themselves into a stupor. I had to set some cruel rules for these people and I had to lay the law down on them on more then one occasion.

You don't know how bad things can get if you never experienced hard times. I'm not talking - just not being able to pay your bills, but real hard times - like when there is no work and you don't have any money and you don't have any food and you don't have any place to live and you are desperate and you will do what ever it takes to take care of your family.

A person can stick their heads in the sand and believe that it's not going to be this way, but I can already see it coming in another generation or two anyways. There is 3 people working in my town and 7 people collecting a check! How long can this lifestyle last? This is going on everywhere.
The rich refuses to take care of the poor, and why should they.
If a person is not willing to work, then they deserve to starve!

Politically, our president is looking out for his own people.
He is giving them cell phones - so he can track where they been and who they been talking to and what they are doing. It makes it much easier to catch dope dealers and terrorists when they are text messaging each other on a daily basis. You don't have to have so many poleice...

The drugs are injected into society to get the masses to conform.
It is easier to keep people in one place if they have a steady stream of drugs to keep them high and drunk.
Even in Vietnam - the sergeants sold the grunts drugs so they wouldn't go AWOL and so they would fight. The officers made large sums of money!

The hippies of the 60's turned into the entrepreneurs of the 70's and 80's.
The profits from the sales of drugs fueled the economy, lot's of non taxable dollars being distributed.
Our countries investment in technology has only fueled this disbelieve that we don't need to work anymore and that we can invest our money wisely and live off of the profits. No one wants to work and there is no reason for them to work as long as people are going to give them handouts.

When the gravy train ends, we are going to have all kinds of desperate people looking for what they can get.
Your house is going to be a easy target.
If an invading country drops a bomb, the effects of the bomb is going to be more severe in a populated area then in a sparsely populated area.
You need to have the option of leaving - bugging out, getting out of Dodge!

As others has said, unless you live in a concrete bunker, you might as well forget it being a defense-able position. And that is just my two cents!

 

[Brent S]

My opinion is very simple, if you go where most people are unwilling to go.
If you live where most people are unwilling to live, you will live.
If you do what you need to do to take care of yourself and you are mobile, able to move camp if need it be - you will live.
If you sit in your house with your rose colored glasses on and think that the people that works at the electric company, water company, gas company, sewage company - is still going to supply these resources if there is no money and or if another entity is invading your country, you are sadly mistaken.

When you have neighbors that has to go to town on a daily basis - else they don't eat, because they don't have any food stored in their house and they live hand to mouth, how do you think these people are going to live when there is no food in the grocery stores?

I live in a duplex and my best friend lives on the other side of the house.
He is a alcoholic and has begged money from all of his friends, which has alienated his friends from him - because he owes everyone money.
His children are more sophisticated, if they want something they just wait until you leave and they steal it. If you don't give it to them, they will come and damage your equipment - just to make you mad.
They have gone so far as to take their girlfriends door to door, make up some sob story about their hard times or how they need money for diapers or gasoline and then drive to town and buy dope with the money.

ARE THINGS GOING TO GET WORSE OR BETTER WHEN THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE FOR THESE PEOPLE TO COLLECT AND THE BEER DISTRIBUTOR RUNS OUT OF BOOZE?

You are going to have all kinds of weirdo's come out of the woodwork that is going to be banging on your door wanting to borrow something - because while you skimped and saved, they lived, drank, screwed and drugged themselves into a stupor. I had to set some cruel rules for these people and I had to lay the law down on them on more then one occasion.

You don't know how bad things can get if you never experienced hard times. I'm not talking - just not being able to pay your bills, but real hard times - like when there is no work and you don't have any money and you don't have any food and you don't have any place to live and you are desperate and you will do what ever it takes to take care of your family.

A person can stick their heads in the sand and believe that it's not going to be this way, but I can already see it coming in another generation or two anyways. There is 3 people working in my town and 7 people collecting a check! How long can this lifestyle last? This is going on everywhere.
The rich refuses to take care of the poor, and why should they.
If a person is not willing to work, then they deserve to starve!

Politically, our president is looking out for his own people.
He is giving them cell phones - so he can track where they been and who they been talking to and what they are doing. It makes it much easier to catch dope dealers and terrorists when they are text messaging each other on a daily basis. You don't have to have so many poleice...

The drugs are injected into society to get the masses to conform.
It is easier to keep people in one place if they have a steady stream of drugs to keep them high and drunk.
Even in Vietnam - the sergeants sold the grunts drugs so they wouldn't go AWOL and so they would fight. The officers made large sums of money!

The hippies of the 60's turned into the entrepreneurs of the 70's and 80's.
The profits from the sales of drugs fueled the economy, lot's of non taxable dollars being distributed.
Our countries investment in technology has only fueled this disbelieve that we don't need to work anymore and that we can invest our money wisely and live off of the profits. No one wants to work and there is no reason for them to work as long as people are going to give them handouts.

When the gravy train ends, we are going to have all kinds of desperate people looking for what they can get.
Your house is going to be a easy target.
If an invading country drops a bomb, the effects of the bomb is going to be more severe in a populated area then in a sparsely populated area.
You need to have the option of leaving - bugging out, getting out of Dodge!

As others has said, unless you live in a concrete bunker, you might as well forget it being a defense-able position. And that is just my two cents!

You've got some good points, it really does paint a gloomy picture about the shape our country is in.

 

[Krime]

hmmm.....as much as I fully agree with very much a lot of your post, I must disagree with a small bit. not everyone living off the government (peoples taxes etc) really want to be there, or are too lazy to look for work. some simply can not find work. I live in an area where a job opens up and 200+ applications get filled out. I will admit, and have admitted on other threads, I have lived off of the government. me, my ol'lady and 3 kids, now tell me please just how easy it is to live off of $650 in cash and $700 in foodstamps? tell me even one place 2 adults and 3 kids can find a place and pay bills with that amount of money? some people need it. that's why im going to college, to hopefully end that bit of my life. although, with the people you suggest n their lifestyle, really makes the whole "drug test for government assistance" more viable. but then again, look at the bright side, if SHTF mofos cant ever say theres no work haha there would be plenty of stuff to do at that time. if they don't, they'll fall out.

 

[Preppin Ed]

I'm a newbie!! LOL! Enjoyed the conversation!!
I've watched different prep shows and Alaska: The Last Frontier. These have lead me to believe both talents will be necessary.
I'm learning and have some ideas of my own. Have any of ya'll heard of aquaponics? Its a way to grow veggies year round on very little water and provides meat..fish. And it can be hidden. You have to plan ahead.
I've just barely started. I'm not sure which is the most immanent danger, financial disaster seems to be the closest.
I look forward to reading your posts, picking your brains, and sharing my knowledge with you!!