Survivalist Prepping vs Supply Prepping

[Amish Heart]

I really don't understand when I hear "preppers" say they have emergency seeds and a grassy back yard and when things go south that they'll just plant that garden and have an abundance of food. It doesn't go that way. Meanwhile they store a year's worth of "emergency" rice and beans in buckets and call it good.

 

[Brent S]

We're starting to calculate the economics of having a garden. We have to pump water 1/4 mile to reach the garden. Running a 12kw generator on $4.40 gallon gas may not be worth it any more. When gas was a little over 2 bucks a gallon it was borderline. Now with the promise of fuel going much higher we probably won't have a garden this size any more.

My 21’x21’ greenhouse can produce a lot of produce. I just left the main garden go back to a jungle this year

 

[Brent S]

I really don't understand when I hear "preppers" say they have emergency seeds and a grassy back yard and when things go south that they'll just plant that garden and have an abundance of food. It doesn't go that way. Meanwhile they store a year's worth of "emergency" rice and beans in buckets and call it good.

Yeah, and I’ve heard many say if shtf then they will plant fruit trees and other edibles. It takes years to build up soil, skills and plants that actually produce.

 

[Mountain trapper]

My 21’x21’ greenhouse can produce a lot of produce. I just left the main garden go back to a jungle this year

Yeah I think we're going let the garden go and focus on the orchard and just a few raised beds. And put in a small green house. I'm hoping that when we get the new propane generator connected to the well pump that it will use less fuel too.

 

[lonewolf]

people that think they can just throw a few seeds on the ground and sit back and wait for their harvest to grow are in for one big surprise, it takes years to get the experience and even then we are still learning.

 

[Amish Heart]

And when a person is successful with a good harvest after seasons of trying, then they need to learn how to do something with the food so it will last all year long.

 

[Oddcaliber]

Taking a que from the mountain men there saying was to carry more in your head than on your back. Knowledge trump's gear in most situations. They knew the land and what was available. They knew what Indian tribes were friendly and which one's were hostile. It was a rough life but it's what they chose to do.

 

[lonewolf]

skills and knowledge will outlast any stockpile.

 

[Amish Heart]

OK, but you still need the stockpile

 

[Oddcaliber]

Knowledge gets you so far. You still need stuff to survive.

 

[lonewolf]

as far as I am concerned a stockpile of stuff is only temporary, it all runs out eventually then you are left with your skills and knowledge.

 

[MOS0231]

To the OP:
I think it is best to have a mix of both, but also have the knowledge and skills for long term plan once you get through the initial SHTF bottleneck. That is what the stockpile is for.

Could I realistically live off the land? I think in a short term. I have wild game on the property. But I also know by experience, just because I have seen deer tracks is not a guarantee I will bag one today, tomorrow, or the day after. Same goes for grouse, geese, ducks, and more. To me, not knowing if I set a dozen traps and I may or may not get one or two rabbits is food insecurity. With my current set up, I can walk into the coop, and collect a dozen eggs. I can put my hand on a chicken, a rabbit, a duck, a pig, a goat a cow, that is a sure thing. That is food security.

As for the gardens, I have rutabagas that have overwintered and seeded out, with no input from myself. Same with dill and some potatoes.
We collect seeds from the best producers of everything we can.
As always, we make note of what works best, what did not work, and try to improve next year.

 

[MOS0231]

To add: I know more than a few self-proclaimed survivalists who point out early day trappers as evidence of living off the land.
They did, to a degree.
Due to the physical nature of their profession, they tended to be a bit on the thin side. They lived in rough conditions that were not exactly comfortable. They endured hardship as part of their life.
At some point, they always returned to a trading post, town, to trade their furs for supplies. And perhaps some entertainment of the female kind.

Fast forward to alleged survivalist and Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph.
He did elude authorities for 5 years in the Nantahala National Forest. By his own admission he did collect some acorns and salamanders. The rest of his diet was from breaking into remote cabins, stealing from people's vegetable gardens, grain from grain silos, and dumpster diving behind grocery stores.
He was caught by a rookie cop dumpster diving behind a Save-A-Lot.

 

[GaRp58]

say they have emergency seeds and a grassy back yard and when things go south that they'll just plant that garden and have an abundance of food.

Of all those seeds...how many will even sprout? How many will then produce any food? How many will get enough rain if the water system is dead? Do you have a well? Do you know how to -and have the ingredients to can the excess (if any comes)? How much will be lost to theft from animals/people?
Ha Ha,

"I'll just plant some seeds and in a few days make me a BLT sandwich with the mayo I made with my own eggs..."

What planet do those people call home??

 

[DrHenley]

The stockpile allows you to live long enough to carefully assess the situation and adjust your plans accordingly.

 

[Schattentarn]

I pan to stockpile food. I cannot possibly raise enough food for my needs. Just count calories and see how much you can raise vs. how much you will need. Someone said once if you can't raise an acre of potatoes, you have no chance raising food. Maybe sweet potatoes in the South, I don't know. Anyone who has ever grown corn or wheat knows how much land, water, labor all that takes. Long term or long, long term you are going to have to be on a real farm or in a farming community like Amish Heart.

I have never bought the whole Mountain Man thing as survival or real prepping. Those guys trap and hunt because they want to do so or are to lazy or inept to hold real jobs. All those TV Mountain Men get scale or contract fees for their episodes and most likely social security or government aid on top of that. There may be guys like Arcticdude that can make a go of this or maybe the guys in some of those set in Alaska TV series' living off the land but these are rare people, not the rank an file citizens of Alaska or anywhere else.

The best I can ever hope for is relatively short term survival and hope for better conditions. Probably a year is max.

 

[lonewolf]

people tend to over estimate how much land they need to grow food, I dont know about in America but in Britain we wont be ploughing acres and acres of anything.

 

[Schattentarn]

OK, check my math:
3000 calories per day for you
3000 calories per day for your wife (hard working days, more, perhaps sometimes less for a woman.
x 365 days per year
2,190,000 calories per year
divided by 4, since 4 calories per gram, equals
547,500 grams of carbohydrate needed per year
divided by 453 (453 grams per pound)
1,208 pounds of potatoes necessary for one year.

 

[Acdoctor]

Prepping is the freeze dried food and canned good +water and meds I have stored, the survival goods are the guns and ammo +fishing gear I have for staying alive after all those are gone . Survival will be a much harder task when the ones who stuck their head in the sand come knocking, that’s is when things will get tricky.

 

[lonewolf]

by the time your stored goods are used up those with their heads in the sand their corpses will have been buried in the same sand.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I pan to stockpile food. I cannot possibly raise enough food for my needs. Just count calories and see how much you can raise vs. how much you will need. Someone said once if you can't raise an acre of potatoes, you have no chance raising food. Maybe sweet potatoes in the South, I don't know. Anyone who has ever grown corn or wheat knows how much land, water, labor all that takes. Long term or long, long term you are going to have to be on a real farm or in a farming community like Amish Heart.

I have never bought the whole Mountain Man thing as survival or real prepping. Those guys trap and hunt because they want to do so or are to lazy or inept to hold real jobs. All those TV Mountain Men get scale or contract fees for their episodes and most likely social security or government aid on top of that. There may be guys like Arcticdude that can make a go of this or maybe the guys in some of those set in Alaska TV series' living off the land but these are rare people, not the rank an file citizens of Alaska or anywhere else.

The best I can ever hope for is relatively short term survival and hope for better conditions. Probably a year is max.

Ok, just what do you mean by "too lazy or inept to hold a real job"? How do you define a real job? Have you ever run a long line trap line before? Do you have any idea how much work is involved? I personally don't dont like these "Mountain Men" TV shows, but I do know where a couple of these guys live and where they trap at. In fact I used to trap in some of the same areas as them and there's nothing easy about it.
Most of my career was rotational, which meant that I'd get at least 6 months vacation per year. With that much time off it allowed me to do the things that I really liked to do, like trapping, hunting and fishing.

 

[Oddcaliber]

Back in the 70' and 80' we were called survivalists. Now days we are called preppers. Bottom line is if we want to survive than we have to prep.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Back in the 70' and 80' we were called survivalists. Now days we are called preppers. Bottom line is if we want to survive than we have to prep.

And before that we were just normal people. Everyone at that time always stayed stocked up, most everyone had chickens, gardens and raised their own beef and a milk cow. Everyone did their own repairs and maintenance. We didn't take our cars to the mechanic.
And we didn't want anything from the government, nor did we trust the government.

 

[DrHenley]

Before that we were called "Boy Scouts" LOL

Boy Scout Motto: BE PREPARED!

Now the Boy Scouts are no more. We have Rainbow Scouts instead who are only prepared for "social justice."

 

[lonewolf]

Before that we were called "Boy Scouts" LOL

Boy Scout Motto: BE PREPARED!

Now the Boy Scouts are no more. We have Rainbow Scouts instead who are only prepared for "social justice."

The British Boy Scouts still exist, the chief scout is Bear Grylls.

 

[DrHenley]

The British Boy Scouts still exist, the chief scout is Bear Grylls.

LOL, does he teach them how to find a motel to spend the night in for their "camping trips."

 

[lonewolf]

I have no idea why they picked him, Ray Mears would have made more sense.

 

[GaRp58]

A "normal" sheeple will look at his broken shoelace and think:
"I need to go shopping on Monday and get a new shoelace!"
A "normal" survivalist will look at his broken shoelace and think:
"I can make a new shoelace out of about 16 different things!"
A PRE-VIVALIST will look at his worn-out shoelace before it breaks and think:
"I'll go get another shoelace out of the storage before this one breaks!"

I KNOW WHERE I FIT IN...DO YOU??

 

[DrHenley]

Me? I see paracord and think "Now why don't they use that for shoelaces??"

 

[GaRp58]

I actually have put a 5mm climbing rope with a 600kg breaking point into my boots as laces, each one is 2 meters long...if I am careful and take off slow enough, I can use them to tow a car...Gary